Why can't we queue ranked with more than 1 other person

[anjo.6143]

9 hours ago, Jibz.2094 said:

Nah we wouldn't but good feedback man thats totally a valid point. Seriously thank you so much for your input 

I dont know if it was sarcasm... but there is one thing you can do it to test how good it is 5manQ, play ATs and let your feedback here

[Shaogin.2679]

50 minutes ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

You're making such non sense it's quite incredible actually. How would 5v5 teamQ do any good and improve the matchmaking? Matchmaking isn't some magical thing that will lead you to have a perfectly balanced game because many variables aren't taken into account. It's just an algorithm that does its best to match people of near identical skill level with the variables provided and at a given time.

Even with a (imaginary) perfectly balanced matchmaking you would get some unbalanced matchs there and there like in ANY COMPETITIVE game ever. Playing at Plat1 right now I rarely get one sided games, I do get some sometimes but if you're taking a sample of  like 100 games how many would you say were winnable if you played better, made better decision etc? I'm pretty sure that would be a decent chunk of games. Well I can say it's true for me.

Imo soloque and matchmaking isn't the issue; the issue is the lack of players in spvp because more players means a more accurate matchmaking at any given time.

 

I've actually already answered your questions if you simply go back and read. You pretty much just ignored every point I made and told me to explain it again, while not making a single point in favor of Solo Queue. So, feel free to actually debate any of my "nonsense" if you want a conversation here.

[Parthenos Polias.5683]

13 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

Again, we're talking about Guild Wars 2 and not other games. Not sure if you got lost on your way here to troll someone else's forums or what.

13 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

You realize that is completely irrelevant in this discussion about an MMO right? Also, in other actual PvP games such as FPS games I can play with my friends.

Not irrelevant if you are trying to explain why Guild Wars 2 Competitive Community is so low in numbers.
And why building a strong competitive environment since launch has failed.

This thread is all about competition, OP complains about not being able to play competitive with his friends.

 

 

13 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

Hold on, let me check my database, yeah none of those games are Guild Wars 2. Thought so. Also, again, last I checked I can play with my friends in CoD, I suspect the same is true for some of those other games too. Fast queue times don't mean crap when the games suck.

So maybe, now, you can try to check why those other games succeed to build a competitive environment and why Guild Wars 2 did not, and will not, ever.

 

 

13 hours ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

It is very similar to a moba with a lot more depth to it actually. As far individual mastery of your hero. Its very clever. They just need to spend the actual time.

This and this

Is called inovaiting.

You just can't just mix to thing and call this innovation.
Mixing fruit cakes with carrots to make a Carrot cake is innovation.
Mixing chocolate cakes with broccoli is just garbage.

 

12 hours ago, Jibz.2094 said:

I can't believe how people actually defend not being able to play consistently as a group in a MMO lol blows my mind.

You don't mean consistently, you mean competitively, this thread is about "Ranked".

I can't believe how people actually defend you can play competitively as a small group in a MMO in 2021.

 

[Jibz.2094]

5 hours ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

Not irrelevant if you are trying to explain why Guild Wars 2 Competitive Community is so low in numbers.
And why building a strong competitive environment since launch has failed.

This thread is all about competition, OP complains about not being able to play competitive with his friends.

 

 

So maybe, now, you can try to check why those other games succeed to build a competitive environment and why Guild Wars 2 did not, and will not, ever.

 

 

You just can't just mix to thing and call this innovation.
Mixing fruit cakes with carrots to make a Carrot cake is innovation.
Mixing chocolate cakes with broccoli is just garbage.

 

You don't mean consistently, you mean competitively, this thread is about "Ranked".

I can't believe how people actually defend you can play competitively as a small group in a MMO in 2021.

 

Yeah bro no. Its a MMO you should be able to play ranked with your friends whenever you want don't understand where you are lost on this LOL.

[Jibz.2094]

18 hours ago, Xentera.4560 said:

No bud, the dumbest thing you ever heard is that you think it’s perfectly alright to play with 5 of your friends that you know, and coordinate attacks and tactics with on a VoIP… etc; against a group of randoms and still call that competitive.

Queue with a party of 5 all you like, just do it against another premade 5 group. At this time you can do that in tournaments.

 

But hey, I understand how some ppl can never gain rating without an unfair advantage.

yeah bro the AT's aren't enough. I know you are upset because your opinion sucks and mine is way better but you should really refrain from using insults. Super unprofessional

[anjo.6143]

Just now, Jibz.2094 said:

yeah bro the AT's aren't enough. I know you are upset because your opinion sucks and mine is way better but you should really refrain from using insults. Super unprofessional

Why AT sucks for you and your friends? What is the problem?

[voltaicbore.8012]

22 hours ago, Jibz.2094 said:

I can't believe how people actually defend not being able to play consistently as a group in a MMO lol blows my mind.

For me, it's not that I don't want team queue, I just don't think adding it back will really improve anything for you and your friends. 

 

You mentioned that

  

On 8/23/2021 at 12:21 PM, Jibz.2094 said:

Unranked is such a shitshow. So hard to find quality games.

 

Do you mean that you and your friends are utterly dominating unranked when you queue as a group?

[Jibz.2094]

24 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

For me, it's not that I don't want team queue, I just don't think adding it back will really improve anything for you and your friends. 

 

You mentioned that

  

 

Do you mean that you and your friends are utterly dominating unranked when you queue as a group?

Yeah its boring i want to queue with my friends in ranked hence why i started this thread

[Khalisto.5780]

i love this posts.

 

it basically doesn't matter what you say or what it is the in fact the truth or at least your percepction

 

you either agree  with OP and get a positive reaction from him

 

or you say anything else and get a answer why you are wrong lmao

Edited August 26, 2021 by Khalisto.5780

[Guirssane.7082]

7 hours ago, Jibz.2094 said:

yeah bro the AT's aren't enough. I know you are upset because your opinion sucks and mine is way better but you should really refrain from using insults. Super unprofessional

Not any actual competitive game allows team vs pug. (for legit reasons, sorry for you if u can't get that) Team vs team is fine by me but you would just get 20 mins que with unbalanced match that Iam sure

[voltaicbore.8012]

9 hours ago, Jibz.2094 said:

Yeah its boring i want to queue with my friends in ranked hence why i started this thread

 Okay. You and your friends might want to find another game to compete together in. ANet might never get around to putting team queue back into ranked.

[Shaogin.2679]

On 8/26/2021 at 2:56 AM, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

Not irrelevant if you are trying to explain why Guild Wars 2 Competitive Community is so low in numbers.
And why building a strong competitive environment since launch has failed.

This thread is all about competition, OP complains about not being able to play competitive with his friends.

 

 

So maybe, now, you can try to check why those other games succeed to build a competitive environment and why Guild Wars 2 did not, and will not, ever.

 

 

You just can't just mix to thing and call this innovation.
Mixing fruit cakes with carrots to make a Carrot cake is innovation.
Mixing chocolate cakes with broccoli is just garbage.

 

You don't mean consistently, you mean competitively, this thread is about "Ranked".

I can't believe how people actually defend you can play competitively as a small group in a MMO in 2021.

 

You're whole argument centers around "PvP sucks so let it suck". And yes, I did mean competitivel, I was typing on my phone. I am not suggesting that my proposed changes will magically fix everything, just that it will improve the game mode. And I don't compare this game to pure PvP games because that is pointless, this is an mmo. One of the major points about mmo games is being able to play online with your friends. So anything that removes the option of being able to play with your friends is simply a bad move. Honestly, it just seems like you're one of those that hates PvP and is here to troll at this point. Can you honestly tell me that limiting Ranked PvP to Solo/Duo queue makes the game mode better? That being forced to play with bots, afk players, and toxic trolls makes the experience better? That having frequent crappy matches is better than having less frequent but more competitive matches is better? Like seriously.......come on.

[Parthenos Polias.5683]

 

1 hour ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

You're whole argument centers around "PvP sucks so let it suck".

No, my argument centers around [COMPETITIVE] PvP sucks so let is suck.
 

 

1 hour ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

One of the major points about mmo games is being able to play online with your friends. So anything that removes the option of being able to play with your friends is simply a bad move.

MMO should not try to create competitive environment in 2021.
ArenaNet should just remove Ranked, so you won't have to complain about "being able to play with [your] friends" in ranked.

Every other aspect of Guild Wars 2 works like a MMO and you are "able to play with [your] friends".

Fundamentally 5vs5 matches aren't a MMO thing.
5 man limited party on a 10 players map isn't a MMO design. It's a PvP Game design.
So it shouldn't be look as a MMO.

 

 

1 hour ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

You're whole argument centers around "PvP sucks so let it suck". And yes, I did mean competitivel, I was typing on my phone. I am not suggesting that my proposed changes will magically fix everything, just that it will improve the game mode. And I don't compare this game to pure PvP games because that is pointless, this is an mmo. One of the major points about mmo games is being able to play online with your friends. So anything that removes the option of being able to play with your friends is simply a bad move. Honestly, it just seems like you're one of those that hates PvP and is here to troll at this point. Can you honestly tell me that limiting Ranked PvP to Solo/Duo queue makes the game mode better? That being forced to play with bots, afk players, and toxic trolls makes the experience better? That having frequent crappy matches is better than having less frequent but more competitive matches is better? Like seriously.......come on.

Yes it does.
Cause the few player who are still trying to play ranked, can have more frequent matches.
I have known lots of game with long queue time and low frequency matches ; all are dead now.
Players want to jump fast in the action, don't want to wait.
That's how PvP games work, sorry if you don't like it.

[Shaogin.2679]

47 minutes ago, Parthenos Polias.5683 said:

 

No, my argument centers around [COMPETITIVE] PvP sucks so let is suck.
 

 

MMO should not try to create competitive environment in 2021.
ArenaNet should just remove Ranked, so you won't have to complain about "being able to play with [your] friends" in ranked.

Every other aspect of Guild Wars 2 works like a MMO and you are "able to play with [your] friends".

Fundamentally 5vs5 matches aren't a MMO thing.
5 man limited party on a 10 players map isn't a MMO design. It's a PvP Game design.
So it shouldn't be look as a MMO.

 

 

Yes it does.
Cause the few player who are still trying to play ranked, can have more frequent matches.
I have known lots of game with long queue time and low frequency matches ; all are dead now.
Players want to jump fast in the action, don't want to wait.
That's how PvP games work, sorry if you don't like it.

That settles it then. You don't care about Ranked PvP at all, so you're here to troll and there is no point in discussing Solo Queue vs Team Queue with you.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Shaogin.2679

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Friendly reminder that PVPs first large population hit was when they removed premade ability from ranked.  OP is justified in their premise. 

 

Most people that want to venture into ranked will feel more comfortable, even if they lose, if they can select their own team. Removing this option forces people to queue with strangers and leaves team synergy to a patchwork gamble that is often more frustrating than beneficial.

 

People were complaining about getting pugstomped by premades and using that as an excuse for why team q shouldnt return, but removing it didn't stop them from getting pugstomped. It just put them at the mercy of duo-quers and queuedodgers, and made it more likely that people on their team would RQ and afk after the first skirmish at mid due to not having any attachment to their team. 

 

Getting rolled by a legendary duo-q because Gary on your team decided him running 1v3 far and dying was the teams fault, and because the legendaries are refusing to fight their own rank to avoid losing rating is just as bad as getting pugstomped. 

 

Personally, instead of what we have now, I would have preferred a ranked team queue as well as a 1v1 queue, with a buffer for rating loss/gain applied to members of a team who didn't queue together, so they don't lose rating as hard for losses when they couldn't control their group and get rating faster for carrying a group they don't know.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

29 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Flex your fingers, click the idiot emote, prove me right....lol

 

You're right but I'm still gonna click it for kicks. 

[Shaogin.2679]

2 hours ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

I'm telling you, they are not using it as confused.

 

This emote literally means they think you are an idiot.

Yeah they'll have to excuse me if I don't value the opinion of some random person on the internet. I'm up for a good debate, I don't bother with trolls slinging pointless insults though.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Shaogin.2679

[Khalisto.5780]

57 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

It is simple though, if you think t queue shouldn't exist....you ARE wrong.

 

It is quite simply the simplest explanation as to why this game took a plunge hugely after season 5 and never once turned positive on the popularity graph after.

 

Also, while team queue may be problematic and exploitable, a few runs and trials to define new rules would be far easier than trying to find perfect balance amongst 27 classes...much easier than forcing an inorganic meta.

 

Flex your fingers, click the idiot emote, prove me right....lol

You know a merged queue would be absolutely bad, the full pug vs full premade offhours would be insane.

 

Solo Q  and team Q could actually work, if the announcement of team queue was able to bring back ppl, but you'd still have plat vs silver offhours, not that isn't already happening, but a full team would  be a lot worse. How many days you think ppl would actually keep playing having 500-50 games half of their games.

 

Right now i don't see it working without crazy matchmaking band-aid fixing.

 

Things like mmr cap between the higher and lower player (which could lead to really long queues)

 

Team size of 2, 3 and 5 only, so a solo player would never face a party

 

I don't know how are things in EU, but NA once you reach 1350 rating you start "completing" plat 2 matches, or even worse you get matched against a plat 2 duo being the best or second best player in your team, i don't want even imagine how this would be on a full team queue scenario.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 minutes ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

You know a merged queue would be absolutely bad, the full pug vs full premade offhours would be insane.

 

Thoughts on the following?

 

They do a merged queue but:

• The matchmaker tries to put premades together to fight aggressively
• If it has to put a pug vs a premade, the pug has a rating loss buffer and premades have a rating gain buffer.
• If premades get matched together, the previous rating buffer is removed.
• Repeatedly fighting pugs as a premade gives your team diminishing rating gains, down to 20% of your expected rating gain. Fighting another premade removes one stack of this rating gain cap.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shaogin.2679]

41 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Thoughts on the following?

 

They do a merged queue but:

• The matchmaker tries to put premades together to fight aggressively
• If it has to put a pug vs a premade, the pug has a rating loss buffer and premades have a rating gain buffer.
• If premades get matched together, the previous rating buffer is removed.
• Repeatedly fighting pugs as a premade gives your team diminishing rating gains, down to 20% of your expected rating gain. Fighting another premade removes one stack of this rating gain cap.

Just make it straight up 5 man queue only. If you need a group, just use lfg. For match making they should just use the rating of the highest rated player on the time.

[Khalisto.5780]

13 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

Just make it straight up 5 man queue only. If you need a group, just use lfg. For match making they should just use the rating of the highest rated player on the time.

This wouldn't work, sometimes ppl have litte time to play, 2 to 3 matches, offhours pts won't be as easy to find. Even if you start your own group depending of your level of skill other ppl may not want to pt with you, or you with them. Then in best case scenario you find a pt and you have time left for 1 game, that could have been 3.

[Khalisto.5780]

13 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

Thoughts on the following?

 

They do a merged queue but:

• The matchmaker tries to put premades together to fight aggressively
• If it has to put a pug vs a premade, the pug has a rating loss buffer and premades have a rating gain buffer.
• If premades get matched together, the previous rating buffer is removed.
• Repeatedly fighting pugs as a premade gives your team diminishing rating gains, down to 20% of your expected rating gain. Fighting another premade removes one stack of this rating gain cap.

That doesn't prevent you from getting in 50-500 matches, which isn't fun to any of the sides. Yes, free mmr for one side, personally, if i get games like this, like 2 games in a row for 3 days in row, i'll take a break from pvp till something is done.

 

I just want competitive matches that i have a chance to win, not being thrown into insta win/lose games.

 

[Genesis.5169]

1 minute ago, Khalisto.5780 said:

That doesn't prevent you from getting in 50-500 matches, which isn't fun to any of the sides. Yes, free mmr for one side, personally, if i get games like this, like 2 games in a row for 3 days in row, i'll take a break from pvp till something is done.

 

I just want competitive matches that i have a chance to win, not being thrown into insta win/lose games.

 

 

Sounds like you wanna manipulate matches before the match even begins to lower the chances of you losing.

[Khalisto.5780]

1 hour ago, Genesis.5169 said:

 

Sounds like you wanna manipulate matches before the match even begins to lower the chances of you losing.

yes dude you got me, busted

[Aktium.9506]

You know what, this thread has convinced me.

 

Let's bring back Team Queue as a 5 man queue only mode and Solo Queue as a 1 man queue only mode and separate them on the leaderboard.

 

Please, let's do it. 🙂

Edited August 28, 2021 by Aktium.9506