ArenaNet, There are a lot of eyes on GW2 right now. Are you going to let the current state of PvP negatively impact the reputation of GW2 through the attention it is getting?

[captrowdy.9561]

I came from ESO and I’m amazed at how much more investment this game has in pvp. 

[Kuma.1503]

The PvP in this game needs work, but it is undoubtedly better than in other MMOs. 

 

Anet just needs to realize they've got a golden goose on their hands and actually invest into it. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Kuma.1503

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

11 minutes ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

I came from ESO and I’m amazed at how much more investment this game has in pvp. 

 

This is my point.

 

Compared to some of the garbage fires I've seen in other MMOs, the pvp here is strides beyond both mechanically and balance wise.

 

What I would like is for the pvp balance here to be generally good, not just good by comparison. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

You can tell there's been migration from WoW when there's a larger-than-ever number of kids spamming the chat with very traditional MOBA-style commentary.

Maybe it's not such a bad idea if they aren't here to stay at this point in time. 

[eyelogix.1654]

PvP sucks these days due to bots. It's barely any point to learn anything in ranked since being in top 250 is pretty much the same peeps every season.

 

The balance is poo and MMR is awful. It won't get any better when the next expansion releases.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

On 8/30/2021 at 11:54 AM, captrowdy.9561 said:

I came from ESO and I’m amazed at how much more investment this game has in pvp. 

Lol give it time, u won't be surprised in a couple yrs and will prob be back playing eso unfortunately.

[Khalisto.5780]

after watching the pshero dude stream for 10 min, i think it's kinda good keep wow players away

[Yngvi.3267]

Imo the pvp in this game suffers in many ways. Below is a non-exhaustive list. The list is also not super detailed as I am just putting thoughts on paper. These observations are based on 1k hours experience in gw2. 5k hours in gw1 (top 10 hero battle, rank 11 hoh) 2k hours dota (6k mmr), 5k hours starcraft 2 (grand master 3x, mostly master 1)

In GW2 there is a massive gap in the resources different professions have available to them. In other games we have energy/mana/rage or a combination thereof. In GW2 we have cooldowns, and resources tend to INCREASE instead of LIMIT the available options. Think of necromancers, druids, engineers, weavers. All these classes have either access to multiple skill bars (circumventing cooldowns) or to additional resources that grant extras instead of being a limiting factor.

GW2 has hardly any trade-offs, AoE spells seemingly do the same (or slightly less) damage or healing compared to their single target variants. Offensive abilities for some classes generate obscene amounts of healing, barrier, or extra resource. Passive abilities grant too much sustain. A way to 'fix' this would be to have passive condi removal to remove one stack of a condition instead of the entire condition altogether. Then, the active version would cleanse all the stacks.

 

Ease of application. Too many skills work perfectly fine without having to indicate a target for it. This is especially true for healing, buffing party members, and removing conditions from said party members. I do understand that GW2 tried to get rid of the holy trinity (tank, dps, healer) but I hope we can all see that the trinity is still there but in a very easy-to-use and stripped down version.

 

Lastly: immunities. I tink they make for very unengaging gameplay. Someone pops 'endure pain', I now have to run away for 4 seconds if i only deal power based damage. The risk for the person using this ability? None. In other games an immunity tends to be something that is expensive. You are immune but cannot move, you are immune but take more damage afterwards, you are immune but deal no damage.

 

As I said, this list is not very detailed but i do hope it gives some food for thought. If you think I am completely off please let me know.

Cheers,

Ingo

 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Yngvi.3267
edit: fixed blatant typos. Also wanted to say that my post is slightly off-topic but hopefully still relevant.

[Lonecap.4105]

26 minutes ago, Yngvi.3267 said:

Imo the pvp in this game suffers in many ways. Below is a non-exhaustive list. The list is also not super detailed as I am just putting thoughts on paper. These observations are based on 1k hours experience in gw2. 5k hours in gw1 (top 10 hero battle, rank 11 hoh) 2k hours dota (6k mmr), 5k hours starcraft 2 (grand master 3x, mostly master 1)

 

In GW2 there is a massive gap in the resources different professions have available to them. In other games we have energy/mana/rage or a combination thereof. In GW2 we have cooldowns, and resources tend to INCREASE instead of LIMIT the available options. Think of necromancers, druids, engineers, weavers. All these classes have either access to multiple skill bars (circumventing cooldowns) or to additional resources that grant extras instead of being a limiting factor.

GW2 has hardly any trade-offs, AoE spells seemingly do the same (or slightly less) damage or healing compared to their single target variants. Offensive abilities for some classes generate obscene amounts of healing, barrier, or extra resource. Passive abilities grant too much sustain. A way to 'fix' this would be to have passive condi removal to remove one stack of a condition instead of the entire condition altogether. Then, the active version would cleanse all the stacks.

 

 

 

Ease of application. Too many skills work perfectly fine without having to indicate a target for it. This is especially true for healing, buffing party members, and removing conditions from said party members. I do understand that GW2 tried to get rid of the holy trinity (tank, dps, healer) but I hope we can all see that the trinity is still there but in a very easy-to-use and stripped down version.

 

 

 

Lastly: immunities. I tink they make for very unengaging gameplay. Someone pops 'endure pain', I now have to run away for 4 seconds if i only deal power based damage. The risk for the person using this ability? None. In other games an immunity tends to be something that is expensive. You are immune but cannot move, you are immune but take more damage afterwards, you are immune but deal no damage.

 

 

 

As I said, this list is not very detailed but i do hope it gives some food for thought. If you think I am completely off please let me know.

Cheers,

 

Ingo
 

 

 

 

 

This sounds more like a lack of understanding, for example Endure Pain has a long cooldown. You can also still make the Warrior take damage via conditions, or CC them. Or yep you can kite for a few moments…

That you complained about EP is very telling, as it isn’t even a true invul, which you know, make it so you can’t take actions, like you said…

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

2 hours ago, ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

This sounds more like a lack of understanding, for example Endure Pain has a long cooldown. You can also still make the Warrior take damage via conditions, or CC them. Or yep you can kite for a few moments…

That you complained about EP is very telling, as it isn’t even a true invul, which you know, make it so you can’t take actions, like you said…

think you missed the point with a straw man response.

 

take distortion…a skill that gives you complete immunity…the argument made by Yngvi applies here
 

The point of his argument is lack of trade offs…which the game indeed lacks and I too believe is largely responsible for a large part of the games balance issues. 
 

shadowform in gw1 was a mistake for those that played gw1…and what did they do in gw2? They made more shadowforms…without trade offs. That was a huge red flag to me about this game when it launched. Why take one of the worst aspects of gw1 and make more of it in the sequels (on top of stripping away the other elements of the game that made gw1 a good game)

 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Axl.8924]

2 hours ago, Yngvi.3267 said:

Imo the pvp in this game suffers in many ways. Below is a non-exhaustive list. The list is also not super detailed as I am just putting thoughts on paper. These observations are based on 1k hours experience in gw2. 5k hours in gw1 (top 10 hero battle, rank 11 hoh) 2k hours dota (6k mmr), 5k hours starcraft 2 (grand master 3x, mostly master 1)

 

In GW2 there is a massive gap in the resources different professions have available to them. In other games we have energy/mana/rage or a combination thereof. In GW2 we have cooldowns, and resources tend to INCREASE instead of LIMIT the available options. Think of necromancers, druids, engineers, weavers. All these classes have either access to multiple skill bars (circumventing cooldowns) or to additional resources that grant extras instead of being a limiting factor.

GW2 has hardly any trade-offs, AoE spells seemingly do the same (or slightly less) damage or healing compared to their single target variants. Offensive abilities for some classes generate obscene amounts of healing, barrier, or extra resource. Passive abilities grant too much sustain. A way to 'fix' this would be to have passive condi removal to remove one stack of a condition instead of the entire condition altogether. Then, the active version would cleanse all the stacks.

 

 

 

Ease of application. Too many skills work perfectly fine without having to indicate a target for it. This is especially true for healing, buffing party members, and removing conditions from said party members. I do understand that GW2 tried to get rid of the holy trinity (tank, dps, healer) but I hope we can all see that the trinity is still there but in a very easy-to-use and stripped down version.

 

 

 

Lastly: immunities. I tink they make for very unengaging gameplay. Someone pops 'endure pain', I now have to run away for 4 seconds if i only deal power based damage. The risk for the person using this ability? None. In other games an immunity tends to be something that is expensive. You are immune but cannot move, you are immune but take more damage afterwards, you are immune but deal no damage.

 

 

 

As I said, this list is not very detailed but i do hope it gives some food for thought. If you think I am completely off please let me know.

Cheers,

 

Ingo
 

 

 

 

 

There is a lot of wrong with this game. One good example:The existence of support specs in PVP.

 

Functionality and how good or bad it can be for SPVP. Too much healing and barriers? folks will be unhappy because it will be a tanky meta. Too many 1 shots? it will be a brainless spammy 1 shot meta, not to mention mobility spam and how problems related to how mobility works here.

 

Anet still has problems to deal with in relation to mobile specs like thief which are problematic but at the same time depend on it. 

There is also a fantastic amount of effect spam red rings of death everywhere with effects going off everywhere. There is literally so much that it can be hard to know whats going on because in the span of a second it all goes off.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Axl.8924

[Yngvi.3267]

Thank you to the two posters above. Before I continue I would like to point out that most of my response will relate GW2 to GW1, this does not mean GW1 was the better game (altough I think it was), it is just to illustrate design changes. I will bring up a starcraft 2 example as well to illustrate a point.

 

@JusticeRetroHunter Distortion would have been a better illustration of what I meant so thank you for bringing that up. I also agree with your comparrisson to Shadow Form in GW1, immunities have always been a bad idea. Look at how much effort they went through to kill the 55hp monk builds even though that had easy counters. Then they introduced Shadow Form, made it 100% sustainable, and then had to introduce mechanics in every part of the game to counteract that spell. We did see other immunities that were less of an issue, think Mantra of Earth - stone form - Obsidian Flesh elementalist. You would get ridiculous damage reductions at the cost of walking 50% slower than normal.

 

@Axl I agree with your assessment of how hard it is to get the balance right. Here we see one of the problems of having only cooldowns as a real way to balance skills. If you get more heals per cooldown cycle than the other player gets damage then you will never die. (This disregards interupts and the likes). I personally find that interupting in GW2 is ridiculously hard. There are no cast-bars and I have no clue if the spell someone is casting is worth interupting, mostly due to the colour clutters, in other parts due to a lack of discernable visual clues (which might sound counter to the clutter argument).

 

As a slight side-step. In Guild Wars 1, the thing that killed people was a lack of healing. Not damage. It might sound odd, but if you equiped a vampiric weapon (draining your HP by 2 per sec but giving 3 hp per hit) you would die unless you received a heal. This meant that if you played a mesmer and were able to interupt self-heals like Shadow Refuge with non-damaging spells you would win . (This disregards unequiping the item, and auto attacking). Because of the passive sustain we now switched to a world where damage kills people, not the lack of healing. It sounds like not that big of a deal but I think it is one of the biggest changes we see between GW1 and GW2.

 

Back to your post @Axl Mobility is a good solution to any kind  of 'power' discussion. You might be a walking fortress, but if you cannot keep up then that is a sufficient tradeoff. Yet the pvp we have makes it so you can put people on 2 out of 3 points, as long as those people can defend vs a +1 situation there is no real way to lose. In guild wars 1 hero battles this was solved by giving every map 4 capture points. The central node gave extra point gain, while the off-side nodes gave bonus effects. I am not saying this is the solution, but it rewarded mobility. Alternatively we can look at Real Time Strategy Games. In Starcraft 2 we have a unit called the siege tank. It has very high (splash) damage, the longest range in the game, and a decent amount of health. The tradeoff? You have to siege up. This means you spend 2 seconds (more or less) in which your unit goes through an animation to lock itself in place, after which you cannot move but get all your fire power made available to you. If you unsiege and become mobile again you now have a short attack range, albeit that the attack rate is a bit faster and single target.

 

Kind regards,

Ingo

[Leonidrex.5649]

On 8/30/2021 at 5:05 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

This is my point.

 

Compared to some of the garbage fires I've seen in other MMOs, the pvp here is strides beyond both mechanically and balance wise.

 

What I would like is for the pvp balance here to be generally good, not just good by comparison. 

I came from NWO and PvP was so bad I could 2v10 almost anyone in the game with a certain TR if we decided to abuse bugs hard enough, there was so much flawed design there that this game looks like a huge bright jewel in comparison.
to name a few
1 undodgeable, unremovable CC
2 turning all the dmg you deal into piercing damage ( ignores all resist )
3 TR could kill every single class with 1 hit from stealth ( some classes dont even have a single dodge in their kit, so fully geared TR could 1 shot you 100% of the time every single time they saw you )
4 bug healing synergy so kittening strong I could legit heal 100% my entire party HP every single time ANYONE took ANY damage.