Celestial firebrand

[EpicName.4523]

I am reforging my gear according to this guy's recommendation 

 

 

I have a few questions, though:

 

1)Are you gonna be accepted for playing Celestial in PvE, especially raids? Will you get ostracized or kicked for not being pure support or pure damage or something like that?

2)If Firebrand is out of the picture for being Celestial, which professions will be most in demand in fractals/raids in its place?

3)In this video, the author uses celestial weapons and shield, but also axe (6:29)which seems to be...Plaguedoctors? Why? Why is it not celestial like the rest? I reforged a Minstrel axe to Plaguedoctor and I am not sure if it was the right move...

4)Is the video even reflecting the current state of the game? It was made, like, only 2 months ago, but maybe Celestial was nerfed or Firebrand changed in some way?

 

[Infusion.7149]

I don't advise running that. You're honestly better off with plaguedoctor , seraph (see https://discretize.eu/builds/guardian/seraph-firebrand), or Marshal's even unless you plan on tanking. Burning makes up ~70% of CFB damage after all.

The only celestial build really decent (as in 30K+DPS) is cele renegade for alacrity.
 

 

edit: Toughness based tanking include

W1 Vale Guardian
W1 Gorseval
W3 Keep Construct
W3 Xera

W4 Deimos
W5 Dhuum

W6 Twin Largos

W7 Adina

W7 Sabir (not real tanking)

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I would only recommend celestial firebrand for WvW.  It is only there where you'll have to do everything by yourself.  For PVE it really pays to specialize:

 

Use Viper or Griever for damage.  You won't need to worry about anything else, because nothing will survive that long against this.

Use either Seraph or Harrier for heals and buffs.

Use Minstrels if you're going to tank.

[Celestia.9128]

That build by Vallun is part of his series of "Best build for all 3 game modes". The idea is that you can just take one set of gear and still be useful in PvE and WvW (sPvP is irrelevant in terms of gear, but still stick to the play style). It is not an attempt to be the best in any one mode. Stick to specialized builds if you wanna just play in PvE. 

[cat.8975]

Cele "HB" is heavily slept on at the moment, and is incredibly good for pugging fractals. The only downside is that it requires a fair bit of knowledge about each encounter and when you'll need to swap traits/utils.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAc+ZlRweYdMMGJW0SvPfA-zxIY1oj/MSQFEiUwjTTA+qA-e

This is using leadership runes, but variations with monk, firebrand, and traveler are all strong in their own ways. Keep in mind that the other rune sets require different sigils and consumables.

While a seraph build has slightly more dps (<15% higher), it's much squishier and has lower boon duration than a cele one would. Sitting at the boon duration cap (when seraph is around ~60% bd) with ~70% more effective health should not be ignored. This build is comfy in pug cm+t4 groups, and it's a fun way to make your rev wake up and try to out-damage you.

This is also pretty dang strong in open world and raids, though be prepared to tank the bosses that have a toughness fixation. For raids, change LL to WT and take the concentration trait in Honor. LL is lowkey griefing (in raids) as the regen and prot it provides is already covered (usually), and if your dps players drop quickness even for a little bit it'll nullify any gains you get from the 20% longer tome burns. Prioritize keeping your party buffed/alive and mechanics dealt with before you focus on dps.

Edited September 13, 2021 by cat.8975

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Play viper, or harrier or berserker; but celestial doesn't really enhance anything; you're pretty average on any aspects, still need to remove some, while you could be decent on 2-3 with a a decent gear. 

 

Celestial work good on Renegade because conditions (burning and tourment) start to be more relevant in fractals (exposed debuff, epidemic, the loss of war banner..), because you need high boon duration and so concentration; because revenant can't only focus on condition but favor both power and condi, because the build is fixed (except for Jallis sometimtes) and you don't need to change it, to change role ...  and there was no really better gear/mix to tick all that apply.

 

On FB, particulary in fractals with masteries, you don't need boon duration to loop quickness nor fury, you have to chose between condi or power for a better dps (Like take radiant fire, but chose righteous instinct rather than amplified wrath ... it's a bit absurd IMO) and even with support / healing (perfect inscription, Honor spec ... ). *edit You can have good use of every stats, but not decently all in one unique build.

 

In short you can adapt before engaging fight but you do tradeoffs everytime and can't really be good.

It is okai if you pug fractals for tiers 1-2-3 or to start and carry newbies on T4; you can easily adapt, you don't die from random instabilities ... But if you want to try CM (which ask a certain optimisation, separation of roles, a certain trust in other members) do raids, you better need to build a real HFB or QFB with the proper gear, or DPS FB ... 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Nezekan.2671]

Celestial with 25 might almost deals as much damage as specific builds without might. Of course, if the builds with more power and condi get might they will deal more damage than you, but celestial requires that 25 might to be viable in damage. Since Guardian can provide the might, you will be fine in all PvE scenarios. Pugging fractals and open world will be very good, but you will need more specialized gear for raids.

[cat.8975]

5 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

On FB, particulary in fractals with masteries, you don't need boon duration to loop quickness nor fury

People also expect might from a HB, and the extra bd is very good at ensuring permanent quickness and fury.

 

5 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

take radiant fire, but chose righteous instinct rather than amplified wrath

I would hope nobody is doing this. The increased crit chance from RI will only increase physical dps by ~15%, when AW increases all burns by 15% and Justice passive burns by an additional 20%. Burning is also the bulk of your damage, making AW even better. With fractal potion, there's no question, as you'd be grossly overcapping on crit chance with RI.

 

5 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

you better need to build a real HFB or QFB with the proper gear, or DPS FB

While this wont replace cqb/pqb in raids or fractals, it can definitely replace just about any hb with better results. The current "meta" build for hb is laughable too, as all of the mainstat power from harrier's is useless on a build that's only pulling 2-4k dps. Every hb in fractal pugs should consider switching to a seraph or celestial build once they're more proficient with the class.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

1 hour ago, cat.8975 said:

While this wont replace cqb/pqb in raids or fractals, it can definitely replace just about any hb with better results. The current "meta" build for hb is laughable too, as all of the mainstat power from harrier's is useless on a build that's only pulling 2-4k dps. Every hb in fractal pugs should consider switching to a seraph or celestial build once they're more proficient with the class.

 

But HFB does low DPS, because most, to all, of your weapons,  traits, skills, sigils, runes and rotation are  arround support and healing (PI + wrath of justice, or Virtues + Honor; shield, staff, stand your ground etc ) not arround DPS.

Sacrificing healing power and concentration to double the dps, switch between 2-4k to 4-8k ... Is it really convincing ? Or you also sacrifice traits, sigils, skills etc, then why even play HFB rather than coordinate F2+F3 with scourge's F3, renegade's healing skill, renegade protection trait...  ?

 

That's the point, we can see we try to optimize but in fact you lose sight of the central aspects : Quickness + dps, or Quickness + support/healing. There is no optimisation otherwise, you're just trying to build confidence by sacrificing supports and stats for a mediocre personnal dps gain, rather than make the real switch.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[cat.8975]

21 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 mediocre personnal dps gain

https://dps.report/hGfW-20210913-034450_arriv
https://dps.report/F85N-20210913-033559_ai

I wouldn't call it mediocre. The point is that this provides great boon uptime (100% bd in fractals!), more than enough healing to keep everyone alive, has access to loads of good utility (thanks to guard utils being fantastic), and does roughly half the damage of a dps spec.

Check out my post above (along with the build link).

Edited September 13, 2021 by cat.8975
this forum software really loves turning single newlines into doubles

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

2 hours ago, cat.8975 said:

https://dps.report/hGfW-20210913-034450_arriv
https://dps.report/F85N-20210913-033559_ai

 

I wouldn't call it mediocre. The point is that this provides great boon uptime (100% bd in fractals!), more than enough healing to keep everyone alive, has access to loads of good utility (thanks to guard utils being fantastic), and does roughly half the damage of a dps spec.

Check out my post above (along with the build link).

 

 

Dude. I do same DPS on Artsariiv with harrier gear and ... F3 #3 !!!!!

Plus why don't you play perfect inscription ?  Your DPS is average but scourge and daredevil should be almost (e*) 20% higher  at the end with double signet of wrath during exposed or the 66-33% phase. Half your group was downed too. It's easy to do "half the dps" when actually you don't buff them properly or they don't do well already. 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[cat.8975]

They downed because they walked into fears well after I was expecting them to tbh. PI is good, but it costs you another util slot and is likely to be a wash in terms of total dps contribution outside of groups with very good players (where you'd be playing cqb instead anyway).
I'll go farm some better logs (this was literally my first pug run with it) and report back if you're still skeptical.

6 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

I do same DPS on Artsariiv with harrier gear and ... F3 #3 !!!!!

Any logs to prove this? How good were your pugs? How fast was the kill? There are a ton of factors at play when it comes to individual dps numbers, which makes % contribution a more useful metric in most cases.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

1 minute ago, cat.8975 said:

They downed because they walked into fears well after I was expecting them to tbh. PI is good, but it costs you another util slot and is likely to be a wash in terms of total dps contribution outside of groups with very good players (where you'd be playing cqb instead anyway).

 

I think you underestimate +432 condition damage during exposed or when AI moves to center; even for pugs. It's like you had 40 mights in total for your condition damage.

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

For fractals, there is

https://discretize.eu/builds/guardian/seraph-firebrand

There's a celestial version and also one with more healing. Personally I don't see a reason to take harriers in fractals anymore (not that there was a point anyways vs minstrels because Mist Potion gives a bunch of boon duration). Realistically speaking, very few people will be able to tell the difference in fractals. However, any of these builds tend to be weak in CC.  However, as DT noted pure celestial is not a good idea because it goes above 100% burning duration so you should put in Seraph pieces as needed)

In 10 person content this kind of hybrid isn't really needed plus toughness causes issues.

Edited September 15, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[cat.8975]

45 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

However, as DT noted pure celestial is not a good idea because it goes above 100% burning duration so you should put in Seraph pieces as needed

This is easily remedied by running a different rune set. Monk, leadership, traveler, and firebrand are all great options.

[Kuma.1503]

I've been doing this from the moment  the cele stat buff hit. 

I don't reccomend raiding with it unless you intend on tanking, but it does wonders everywhere else. 

In fractals my dps is perfectly fine. My runs have been smooth and I've yet to be kicked. I run smoldering sigil with rune of the firebrand which puts me at around 99% burning duration and 95% quickness duration. This lets me upkeep quickness easily with or without an alac renegade on hand. If the group is struggling all I have to do is run a staff as my weapon swap and maybe slot in bow of truth for extra heals. 

In WvW, the build works great for zerg play. I can heal, boon, and deal respectable damage. It also works amazingly while roaming. I have two other friends I roam with, and we're able to take on virtually any even or slightly outnumbered fight.

If you want to try it, I'd reccomend it. It sounds worse than saraph, plaguedoctor, ect. on paper, but you'd be surprised how much the extra strike damage and expertise helps with keeping your dps relevant. I can still hit ~15k dps single target with a less than perfect setup (no alac), while running the Radiance/Honor setup for heals. It's my go to build now for pug play. 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Kuma.1503

[Buran.3796]

  Since in this summer I was using 4 different Revenant builds at PvP/WvW roaming but only a single one from Guardian (DH trapper) I was a bit frustrated due the past lack of viable FB builds in competitive game modes. So I chose to give the newly buffed celestial stats a try and made the build I think fits better my tastes and abilities, which I've been using this weekl 8along the beta ones); this is a build for FB solo roaming/small group skirmishes with a PvP variant:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWABc6x3lVwAZYsP2IW0OnvcA-z1IY14/UCTCkpQoXRQ3KAFPLPKtB-w

Radiance 221,  Valor 312, Firebrand 123

Litany of Wrath, Judge's Intervention, Contemplation of Purity and either Stand Your Ground! or Save Yourselves!, Renewed Focus.

Axe + shield/sword + focus with scepter as alternative to sword if needed.

Full celestail stats with rune of the fireworks; absorption and celerity sigils in the axe + shield combo, energy and cleansing in the swap. At PvP I'm testing the much less effective Sage amulet , Melandru runes and absorption + energy and cleansing + energy sigils.

 

   This build solves some glaring issues with the uber-nerfed Firebrand: the chronic low HP is replaced by a healthy ~18k HP, the low mobility is replaced by a permanent 25% increased pace thanx to the runes, which also boost hugely the boon duration. High armor, decent power and crit chance, high crit damage, moderate condition damage and healing power which adds a lot to the AoE pressure and self sustain, plus a good cleansing capabilities and a gameplay revolving around ccing foes to gain long lasting celerity and absorving boons. Some foes will feel menaced by the burn ticks (which can add a lot of pressure over time) but the real deal is in the strike damage, boosted by the quickness boon. So far I've success vs fighting WvW players with way higher rank by me (I'm ~1050), like platinum Rangers builded specifically to roam, hit & run, or mauling a Scourge + Renegade duo in the same fight. Is not perfect (I've been poked and downed over time by some thieves and the build lacks tools to chase high mobility classes), bu so far the overall performance seems and feels good, and I particulary like how fast can nuke a group of enemy players if they get caugh by a few ccs.

   In PvP sthe stats, runes and sigils aren't there, but can be played in unranked to have some fun. DH performs better, tho.