New heal minor?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

For too long where we gated behind MMR, Shouts and post-May on Adrenal health, so should the new spec introduce a new self heal minor trait like Holo did with Heat Therapy? Idea is: spec provides heal, you can slot 2 core lines maxed on offense without being glass (looking at berserker). Sun and Moon style is a joke and Dead or Alive is just Dead, no alive.  

 

Sun and Moon offhand dagger heal should have been the minor GM on arms and the bleed on crit 100% like virtuoso on a minor Adept. Anyway I digress. New heal or no? 

[The Boz.2038]

GW1 Warrior had a neat skill that could be implemented as a new trait: Thrill of Victory - Heal for 0.25HP (1s CD) if you hit a foe with fewer boons or less health than you.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

GW1 Warrior had a neat skill that could be implemented as a new trait: Thrill of Victory - Heal for 0.25HP (1s CD) if you hit a foe with fewer boons or less health than you.

Not a bad idea. Ofc it would need to be translated properly over. Also, I hope and pray our jew heal skill doesn't remove all our boons for a nerfed unique effect (Aka SpB Natural Healing generating Attacker's Insight)... 

 

I'd want to see the heal as part of a minor instead of a master, so we can have some survivability already in our kit and choose to specialise on different majors. 

 

Will this allow for overly tanky specs abusing MMR, Adrenal health or shouts with this heal? Not rly. I don't see Strength Tactics Defense core warriors in pvp and WvW for the sole reason of discipline being a must have. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

We still lack any notable access to Regeneration despite every other class having some access to it. It used to be present on banners, but it was deemed too strong with the old Healing Signet and Adrenal Health. However, those things are long since completely overhauled, so why are we still barred from Regen?

 

As for purely selfish Healing, no. Warrior's biggest problem is that almost everything we do is already selfish; we have only a few tools to actually help allies, and of those we're almost always expected to be either a selfish DPS or banner slave (or HealShout Warrior in competitive settings). Warrior needs to bring more to the fight. I was always confused how the Firebrand got generous access to group Quickness and Stability when those always seemed more fitting for Warrior., but its not something we can undo now I guess.

 

What I'd like to see is:

1) Access to Regeneration for allies (this would affect us too), and

2) Some kind of unique group buff besides the Power aura, ideally something with attack speed. Like a permanent, passive, semi-Quickness, similar to Speed Boost Mushrooms I guess.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Jzaku.9765]

Maybe you should instead be asking why our current sustain options aren't good enough despite 3/5 core traitlines having sustain trait options in them? Oh yeah, it's because they're not good enough and we're locked into Discipline, which doesn't have a sustain trait. Even besides that, core Warrior isn't even close to a functional PvP build compared to some of the other Core builds running around, signaling that the core class that the elite specs build off of isn't doing too great. 

 

Don't hope for the new espec to be the messiah that solves all the problems you identify in the class (it won't), because inevitably you'll be tied down by the aspects of core Warrior that are failing you.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

FWIW MMR, MM, and AH could all be boosted by 15% and then maybe sustain would be in the right place.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

2 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Maybe you should instead be asking why our current sustain options aren't good enough despite 3/5 core traitlines having sustain trait options in them? Oh yeah, it's because they're not good enough and we're locked into Discipline, which doesn't have a sustain trait. Even besides that, core Warrior isn't even close to a functional PvP build compared to some of the other Core builds running around, signaling that the core class that the elite specs build off of isn't doing too great. 

 

Don't hope for the new espec to be the messiah that solves all the problems you identify in the class (it won't), because inevitably you'll be tied down by the aspects of core Warrior that are failing you.

Me? Lol no. I'm very grounded. I'm asking these things for the sake of fun. I know warrior will not change. I know that even resolution won't be added to our skills. So what I point at is:

 

1)Adress the biggest issues of warrior

2)Explain why they are issues and why they need to be solve

3)"hope" that the new espec will fill as many of the gaps as possible instead of creating a series of entirely new problems with the class. 

 

Is our sustain bad? Yes. Will it be fixed? Probably no. So should they add a new form of healing to compensate a bit? Yah sure it's better than nothing. 

 

An example if you may. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

FWIW MMR, MM, and AH could all be boosted by 15% and then maybe sustain would be in the right place.

Dogged March should give resistance and cleansing ire should proc the cleanse and regen every 15s for 7s for the traits to make more sense tbh.. It's not like resistance is op rn and with resolution in defense it's already clear that's the place for Core to get some resistance (especially when stances are part of defense and we got Zerker stance). 

 

Just an idea.. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Just now, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Dogged March should give resistance and cleansing ire should proc the cleanse and regen every 15s for 7s for the traits to make more sense tbh.. It's not like resistance is op rn and with resolution in defense it's already clear that's the place for Core to get some resistance (especially when stances are part of defense and we got Zerker stance). 

 

Just an idea.. 

OR, Rousing resilience should proc regen somehow to make it a good contender with CI since last stand is not a viable pick.. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Dogged March should give resistance and cleansing ire should proc the cleanse and regen every 15s for 7s for the traits to make more sense tbh.. It's not like resistance is op rn and with resolution in defense it's already clear that's the place for Core to get some resistance (especially when stances are part of defense and we got Zerker stance). 

 

Just an idea.. 

Let's break it down.

 

Dogged March gives Regen, which can be boosted to have perma upkeep so long as the conditions are met, and heal for over 300 HP a second. You can build for over 900 heal over time with this AH, and Healing Signet.

 

Cleansing Ire I can see giving Resistance for 1s per bar of adrenaline spent on top of it's current effects, per foe hit, so long as there is a caveat that the cleanse happens upon using the burst.

WHEN Defy Pain and Last Stand are "reworked" they should grant resolution and protection in some sort of way.

[Infusion.7149]

We don't know what the new elite spec will bring, but it is likely to be support as power/condition are already covered.

What's more important than healing until then is the defense traitline hasn't been reworked: it still has 300s cooldowns.

I think MMR is okay in PVE since it's per might stack but in PVP/WVW it's a bit low unless you're running tactics as well, if it were far stronger you'd have the issue of a high armor class with high sustain. I don't think anyone truly believes spellbreaker is an easy kill, right?

With no healing power you're looking at ~266/ second while running Forceful Greatsword in PVE (as opposed to raiding or fractals when you run Great Fortitude and drop MMR as well) and possibly more if you have strength sigils. If you run tactics instead of discipline you get even more might to proc the trait and compound its healing with Mending Might. Of course you don't need to run Strength necessarily, you could just as easily run Phalanx Strength with Strength sigil (or run Disc+Tactics+Strength on core warrior).

For example tactics is used on fractal/raid builds when extra effectiveness is gained from empower allies:
https://snowcrows.com/builds/warrior/berserker/power-banner-berserker , https://discretize.eu/builds/warrior/power-berserker , https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/warrior/power-banner-berserker-r99/
For WVW: https://gw2mists.com/builds/warrior/shoutbreaker

So with that in mind I would say wait for the release of the details before jumping to conclusions. For now though, 300s cooldowns should definitely be redesigned, we're overdue for that and even in WVW where defense was common it is a thing of the past.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Vancho.8750]

@Lan Deathrider.5910@Grand Marshal.4098 

After the necro "rework" , I think that giving Berserker at least 30% damage reduction condi and power on Eternal Champion and boosting the healing received on Dead or Alive might return it to sustain levels of HoT if you run it with Defense, basically reverting the nerfs on defense in adrenal Health , the dead traits and healing signet but only on Berserker, while leaving Spellbreaker unaffected, which was the main reason for the traitline to be nerfed in the first place.  

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

16 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910@Grand Marshal.4098 

After the necro "rework" , I think that giving Berserker at least 30% damage reduction condi and power on Eternal Champion and boosting the healing received on Dead or Alive might return it to sustain levels of HoT if you run it with Defense, basically reverting the nerfs on defense in adrenal Health , the dead traits and healing signet but only on Berserker, while leaving Spellbreaker unaffected, which was the main reason for the traitline to be nerfed in the first place.  

Yeah, that stealth "rework" was something else huh? I walk though zergs taking 0 damage until my LF decays naturally. Can't wait to see the 0 damage Necro builds soloing PvE content now.

 

I think you are on to something there though. Berserker DOES have a defensive line built into it.

Here is my take on your suggestion:

Savage Instinct: Gain Feel no pain for 2s on entering Berserk Mode. Berserk Mode now breaks stuns. Gain Feel no Pain for 1s when hitting with a burst attack, 5s CD.

Dead or Alive: When taking a fatal blow in Berserk Mode, leave Berserk Mode and heal for 5500 (w/e the number is I just rounded). Incoming healing is increased by 20%.

Eternal Champion: Gain 300 toughness. When breaking stuns gain 3 might (6s) and 1 stack of stability (2s). When in Berserk Mode take 30% less condition and strike damage.

Changes are in bold.

For SI 1s of FNP on hitting with a burst is something we've all agreed on that would be great and thematic for Berserker. CD keeps it from being spammed by axe. CD may have to be longer.

 

For DorA, the increase is to 20% from 10%. You don't want to go too far on this buff as there are run synergies that would break it.

 

For EC, 300 toughness baseline gives some protection out of Berserk Mode. But in Berserk Mode there is a flat 30% strike and condition damage reduction. Additive. This would then stack with Protection (from where ever you happen to receive it from) and with Resolution.  30% may be too high, but if Anet insists on Core Warrior not getting easy access to protection and resolution, then this would be the place to put it. FWIW an Eternal Champion would end up almost impossible to kill while in Berserk Mode with certain comps, I can already see how to exploit it in PvE for instance but the reduction can be made less for once in PvE.

 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

37 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yeah, that stealth "rework" was something else huh? I walk though zergs taking 0 damage until my LF decays naturally. Can't wait to see the 0 damage Necro builds soloing PvE content now.

 

I think you are on to something there though. Berserker DOES have a defensive line built into it.

Here is my take on your suggestion:

Savage Instinct: Gain Feel no pain for 2s on entering Berserk Mode. Berserk Mode now breaks stuns. Gain Feel no Pain for 1s when hitting with a burst attack, 5s CD.

Dead or Alive: When taking a fatal blow in Berserk Mode, leave Berserk Mode and heal for 5500 (w/e the number is I just rounded). Incoming healing is increased by 20%.

Eternal Champion: Gain 300 toughness. When breaking stuns gain 3 might (6s) and 1 stack of stability (2s). When in Berserk Mode take 30% less condition and strike damage.

Changes are in bold.

For SI 1s of FNP on hitting with a burst is something we've all agreed on that would be great and thematic for Berserker. CD keeps it from being spammed by axe. CD may have to be longer.

 

For DorA, the increase is to 20% from 10%. You don't want to go too far on this buff as there are run synergies that would break it.

 

For EC, 300 toughness baseline gives some protection out of Berserk Mode. But in Berserk Mode there is a flat 30% strike and condition damage reduction. Additive. This would then stack with Protection (from where ever you happen to receive it from) and with Resolution.  30% may be too high, but if Anet insists on Core Warrior not getting easy access to protection and resolution, then this would be the place to put it. FWIW an Eternal Champion would end up almost impossible to kill while in Berserk Mode with certain comps, I can already see how to exploit it in PvE for instance but the reduction can be made less for once in PvE.

 

I agree. Although it is a bit of heresy to speak about defensive buffs on Zerker when they have made clear that it's op for them and it is most definitely worth the toughness nerf. Wouldn't be surprised if they made it a - 500 toughness xdddd

 

Like the changes ofc, but do remind me last time we were talking about rage skills, wasn't one of the defensive traits meant to apply prot on rage skills, or was that for another trait? I'll check the omnibus. In any case we should rly come up with a combined Berserker rework at some point. 

[Vancho.8750]

2 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I agree. Although it is a bit of heresy to speak about defensive buffs on Zerker when they have made clear that it's op for them and it is most definitely worth the toughness nerf. Wouldn't be surprised if they made it a - 500 toughness xdddd

 

Like the changes ofc, but do remind me last time we were talking about rage skills, wasn't one of the defensive traits meant to apply prot on rage skills, or was that for another trait? I'll check the omnibus. In any case we should rly come up with a combined Berserker rework at some point. 

The ideas in the Omnibus are wishful thinking, these changes that @Lan Deathrider.5910 suggests are mostly numerical so even CMC can add them, and they can band aid Berserker to be at least good enough with the old Defense/Discipline/Berserker build, might even contest Reaper as a tanky teamfight bruiser, since only Necros get to be the Teamfight damage builds, it would be great to have other classes being viable in the role . 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

34 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

The ideas in the Omnibus are wishful thinking, these changes that @Lan Deathrider.5910 suggests are mostly numerical so even CMC can add them, and they can band aid Berserker to be at least good enough with the old Defense/Discipline/Berserker build, might even contest Reaper as a tanky teamfight bruiser, since only Necros get to be the Teamfight damage builds, it would be great to have other classes being viable in the role . 

Well, he CANT add anything. So FNP on burst hit he can't do, but he can make it longer on entering Berserk Mode. The toughness gain on EC being all the time he can't do. He also can't give it damage reduction.

He can however increase the incoming healing effectiveness on DorA.

He can decrease the toughness penalty from Berserk Mode.

He can increase the toughness gained from Eternal Champion.

[Vancho.8750]

6 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Well, he CANT add anything. So FNP on burst hit he can't do, but he can make it longer on entering Berserk Mode. The toughness gain on EC being all the time he can't do. He also can't give it damage reduction.

He can however increase the incoming healing effectiveness on DorA.

He can decrease the toughness penalty from Berserk Mode.

He can increase the toughness gained from Eternal Champion.

Increasing the toughness by 1300(1000 +300 so it removes the drawback) gives 33% + strike damage reduction and getting resolution instead of might gives 30% less condition damage taken.

And to tell you the truth I think all of their class devs can take 30 minutes to make these add -30 % damage from condition and strike damage changes since they are so basic. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

25 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Increasing the toughness by 1300(1000 +300 so it removes the drawback) gives 33% + strike damage reduction and getting resolution instead of might gives 30% less condition damage taken.

And to tell you the truth I think all of their class devs can take 30 minutes to make these add -30 % damage from condition and strike damage changes since they are so basic. 

He can't give Resolution instead of might.  But yeah, he can give 1300 toughness.

 

And yes, the Dev team could probably spend all of 30 minutes on it instead. But that assumes they have 30 minutes with EoD development going on. They're probably busy tweaking Virt, Harb, and Willy based on feedback and finishing up the next three for the incoming beta.

[crewthief.8649]

9 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Me? Lol no. I'm very grounded. I'm asking these things for the sake of fun. I know warrior will not change. I know that even resolution won't be added to our skills. So what I point at is:

 

1)Adress the biggest issues of warrior

2)Explain why they are issues and why they need to be solve

3)"hope" that the new espec will fill as many of the gaps as possible instead of creating a series of entirely new problems with the class. 

 

Is our sustain bad? Yes. Will it be fixed? Probably no. So should they add a new form of healing to compensate a bit? Yah sure it's better than nothing. 

 

An example if you may. 

I think it’s ironic that the Resistance >Resolution patch turned out to be a huge nerf to *drumroll * WARRIOR! You guessed it! Anet is a massive joke, at this point.

Edited August 31, 2021 by crewthief.8649