Suggestio: CC damage vs Stability

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

First of all let me say that I agree with the changes to remove damage from CC skills, as this is common in other games and prevents players from instantly dying to a CC chain, something that is still frustrating even without any damage on those skills (but gives you a chance to survive).

 

That said, I do think its done too much damage (no pun intended) to many kits in the game. Currently if the target has CC resistance the skill just does nothing, rendering the kit useless., and that's just too much.

 

My suggestion would be to change the skills so that they still do damage if the target resists the CC effect by any means (mostly, if they have Stability, but there are other reasons). This way we could have the best of both worlds; if the target is affected by the CC it has the newer behavior of just disabling them, allowing you to perform your chain, but if they're unaffected by the CC it has the older behavior of damaging them instead.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Hannelore.8153

[Lightning Xv.8705]

Rather than make a convoluted back end system you just remove the ability for CC skills to crit like they did with so many sigils and traits. Problem solved no more 10k bulls charges or 15k drop the hammers. While at the same time not absolutely destroying weapon sets because half the skills applied a CC (warrior hammer).

 

The removal of all damage from CC skills was a knee jerk move that required follow up balance  just like the 300 second traits that still haven't been reworked

8 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

First of all let me say that I agree with the changes to remove damage from CC skills, as this is common in other games and prevents players from instantly dying to a CC chain

I don't know what other games you play(ed) but the mmo's I've played over the years that had no damage on cc skills also had 40+ skills to choose from and constant complaints about skill bloat. A bit less noticeable when 5 skills do no damage out of 40 vs what we have in gw2. It also didn't save people from dying to CC chaining.

[subversiontwo.7501]

I'd say this feels like a level-headed suggestion, it's a topic worth discussing.

At the same time I think it is pertinent to bring up that there are plenty of other skills and mechanics that have these same issues, that they mostly just go on cooldown if you use them at inopportune moments (eg., many teleport skills have lost their damage too and if you port to where you already are they essentially do nothing; or even just many skills that are hard to apply in the first place, miss with them and they do nothing). So while it's a fair topic, it's not a no-brainer solution.

Edited September 12, 2021 by subversiontwo.7501

[Quench.7091]

They really threw the baby out with the bathwater with that old change! Easy to use CC with a guaranteed return and difficult to use CC that can only CC are being treated exactly the same.

For example, Big Ol' Bomb does nothing but launch players, so it was designed to deal heavy damage (which was removed in PvP situations). It has a 3 second fuse and is stationary. It can be blocked. Then look at Blast Gyro. Grants 11 Might in an AoE to nearby allies, launches the target even further, follows the engineer, and has Unblockable. The Big Ol' Bomb needs it's damage back and the Blast Gyro doesn't need it.

Why is it okay to empower our attacks or remove enemy protections on a CC ability, but not okay to deal damage on the CC itself? It's almost the same outcome, except it can also happen to boost the damage output of all nearby allies. Should these abilities be robbed of their nuances too?

It's time to restore the damage for abilities that are balanced around damage.

Edited September 12, 2021 by Quench.7091

[ArchonWing.9480]

Given the other thread crying about pulls, I dunno.

But what is true is that some weapon sets are just kinda off (mostly warrior hammer) that need more nuanced changes. There are also oddities like Hunter's Ward that still does significant damage despite being a CC. (And yes before anyone decides to be a smart kitten, the actual attack is not a CC)

Edited September 12, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Xenesis.6389]

It's a decent idea, but given the amount of cc's to stability skills ratio I'd say no.

 

If the game had a system of diminishing returns on cc's, then yes it would be decent idea of cc's then converting to damage instead if the cc were resisted. Unfortunately the catchall counter to cc's in this game is stability, which is not widely/evenly available on every class/spec.

 

Some specs have 0 access to stability, some have 2-3 sources, but almost every class has access to multiple cc's at a time and a stun breaker only gets rid of one, there are times where I've been chain cc'd by even one necro, imagine a group focusing you in a fight. There's also a sigil that does damage and heal when you interrupt, which happens from cc's, so use that if you feel the need to do damage on cc's.

[Loading.4503]

Just make it so confusion only ticks per skill use and torment only ticks when moving or staying still, either or, and ill be somewhat ok with 0 damage cc

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

On 9/12/2021 at 12:04 AM, Hannelore.8153 said:

First of all let me say that I agree with the changes to remove damage from CC skills, as this is common in other games and prevents players from instantly dying to a CC chain, something that is still frustrating even without any damage on those skills (but gives you a chance to survive).

 

That said, I do think its done too much damage (no pun intended) to many kits in the game. Currently if the target has CC resistance the skill just does nothing, rendering the kit useless., and that's just too much.

 

My suggestion would be to change the skills so that they still do damage if the target resists the CC effect by any means (mostly, if they have Stability, but there are other reasons). This way we could have the best of both worlds; if the target is affected by the CC it has the newer behavior of just disabling them, allowing you to perform your chain, but if they're unaffected by the CC it has the older behavior of damaging them instead.

My counter would be to return damage completely to hard CCs scaled down to the level of the current meta (66%-75% of their previous values before Feb2020 depending on the telegraph), but instead allow Stability to negate their damage as well as the CC portion.