Balance Post EoD

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

So...

"Before we wrap up this section, we did want to mention that we understand how important profession balance is for World vs World gameplay. To address this, after the expansion releases, we’ll be dedicating design resources to overseeing profession balance for the Live game in a full-time capacity, supporting PvE, PvP, and WvW. This will allow us to deliver balance updates on a much more consistent cadence"

Well then, @Cal Cohen.2358, @Raymond Lukes.6305, and @Josh Davis.7865 if that is your goal then please take the time to read through the profession forums for ideas, not just the warrior forums. I mean the profession mains all have a good handle on what their professions need and as a whole they come up with sound ideas and generally call BS on each other when needed when something is OP.

For the warrior side of the house the Omnibus thread is a really great place to start. A large amount of effort from the warrior community went into it and there is a wealth of ideas for you there to pick and choose from. It would be a mistake on your parts to not read through it.

You really should read the omnibus guys.

Beyond that I have a smaller "Change Request Series" batch of threads that are my ideas but the same purpose as the Omnibus.

@CalmTheStorm.2364 has a series of "Revitalizing" threads suggesting full reworks of weapons, traitlines, and skill types. They are also well worth the time to read.

 

In the event that all that is just too much to read through then please take the following advice from the warriors based off of all the commentary that our subforum has produced:

• The 300s CDs need to be reverted, or reworked. Sooner is better., but if it is post EoD then please be straightforward about it.
• At least some of our hard CCs need to do damage. Either that or change Body Blow to deal power damage instead of 1 stack of bleed.
• Defense needs a whole sale rework
• Arms needs a whole sale rework. Every single trait there is effectively just a stat boost. It does nothing to change how you play.
• Off hand weapons need a whole sale rework. Every single one. OH axe is fine in PvE, but none of the others are really ever used except for RP, which is a shame, and in competitive play none of them can out do the usefulness of Shield. This includes dagger on Spellbreaker.
• Berserker needs a F2 to leave Berserk Mode. Burst of Aggression needs to refresh when hitting with a Primal Burst. Savage Instinct needs to give Feel No Pain for 1s when you hit with a Primal Burst (with a 4s-6s CD) or at least provide some other form of defense like barrier or protection. The toughness penalty needs to be removed, we already lost core F1s as a tradeoff, there is no need for a second tradeoff.
• Spellbreaker needs to be able to rip more boons in competitive play, you can easily double the boons ripped by it's traits and skills. Meditations need a full rework, and a trait to augment them.
• The self roots on Hundred Blades, Flurry, and Kill Shot need to be removed or entire new skills made to replace them.
• Change all defensive burst traits to activate on burst use instead of on hitting with a burst. These include Adrenal Health and Cleansing Ire specifically, but can be extended to Guard Counter. This would add depth to gameplay, because then you would have a choice to use your burst preemptively to gain some defense/sustain.
• Marching Orders and it's related traits need to have their CDs decoupled. Marching Order's itself does not need a CD for how little Might it generates. Soldier's Comfort needs a smaller CD ( like 5s) to help core support function better outside of Vigorous Shouts. Martial Cadence should grant Alacrity to allies in addition to might when Marching Orders activates in addition to it's current effects.
• Warrior needs a source of sustain that is not Adrenal Health or from Might generation. When you rework Arms or Defense, please consider adding in another small source of sustain (like heal when inflicting vulnerability). If you change the CDs on Marching Orders and Soldier's Comfort, like I suggest in one of my Change Request series threads, that would be less of a necessity. 

Thanks for all your hard work guys. I know getting EoD out the door is the priority. I want you guys to get the new Especs right. I want you to get the balance right. I strongly urge you to take the above points into consideration. I strongly urge you to read through the Omnibus, the Change Request Series, and the Revitalize series.

We would all love to hear from you on what you consider the path forward for Warrior. The door is always open on the forums. Feel free to drop into any of these threads to discuss their contents and why you like/don't like what you see. We're all happy to help you brainstorm.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

So...

"Before we wrap up this section, we did want to mention that we understand how important profession balance is for World vs World gameplay. To address this, after the expansion releases, we’ll be dedicating design resources to overseeing profession balance for the Live game in a full-time capacity, supporting PvE, PvP, and WvW. This will allow us to deliver balance updates on a much more consistent cadence"

Well then, @Cal Cohen.2358, @Raymond Lukes.6305, and @Josh Davis.7865 if that is your goal then please take the time to read through the profession forums for ideas, not just the warrior forums. I mean the profession mains all have a good handle on what their professions need and as a whole they come up with sound ideas and generally call BS on each other when needed when something is OP.

For the warrior side of the house the Omnibus thread is a really great place to start. A large amount of effort from the warrior community went into it and there is a wealth of ideas for you there to pick and choose from. It would be a mistake on your parts to not read through it.

You really should read the omnibus guys.

Beyond that I have a smaller "Change Request Series" batch of threads that are my ideas but the same purpose as the Omnibus.

@CalmTheStorm.2364 has a series of "Revitalizing" threads suggesting full reworks of weapons, traitlines, and skill types. They are also well worth the time to read.

 

In the event that all that is just too much to read through then please take the following advice from the warriors based off of all the commentary that our subforum has produced:

• The 300s CDs need to be reverted, or reworked. Sooner is better., but if it is post EoD then please be straightforward about it.
• At least some of our hard CCs need to do damage. Either that or change Body Blow to deal power damage instead of 1 stack of bleed.
• Defense needs a whole sale rework
• Arms needs a whole sale rework. Every single trait there is effectively just a stat boost. It does nothing to change how you play.
• Off hand weapons need a whole sale rework. Every single one. OH axe is fine in PvE, but none of the others are really ever used except for RP, which is a shame, and in competitive play none of them can out do the usefulness of Shield. This includes dagger on Spellbreaker.
• Berserker needs a F2 to leave Berserk Mode. Burst of Aggression needs to refresh when hitting with a Primal Burst. Savage Instinct needs to give Feel No Pain for 1s when you hit with a Primal Burst (with a 4s-6s CD) or at least provide some other form of defense like barrier or protection. The toughness penalty needs to be removed, we already lost core F1s as a tradeoff, there is no need for a second tradeoff.
• Spellbreaker needs to be able to rip more boons in competitive play, you can easily double the boons ripped by it's traits and skills. Meditations need a full rework, and a trait to augment them.
• The self roots on Hundred Blades, Flurry, and Kill Shot need to be removed or entire new skills made to replace them.
• Change all defensive burst traits to activate on burst use instead of on hitting with a burst. These include Adrenal Health and Cleansing Ire specifically, but can be extended to Guard Counter. This would add depth to gameplay, because then you would have a choice to use your burst preemptively to gain some defense/sustain.
• Marching Orders and it's related traits need to have their CDs decoupled. Marching Order's itself does not need a CD for how little Might it generates. Soldier's Comfort needs a smaller CD ( like 5s) to help core support function better outside of Vigorous Shouts. Martial Cadence should grant Alacrity to allies in addition to might when Marching Orders activates in addition to it's current effects.
• Warrior needs a source of sustain that is not Adrenal Health or from Might generation. When you rework Arms or Defense, please consider adding in another small source of sustain (like heal when inflicting vulnerability). If you change the CDs on Marching Orders and Soldier's Comfort, like I suggest in one of my Change Request series threads, that would be less of a necessity. 

Thanks for all your hard work guys. I know getting EoD out the door is the priority. I want you guys to get the new Especs right. I want you to get the balance right. I strongly urge you to take the above points into consideration. I strongly urge you to read through the Omnibus, the Change Request Series, and the Revitalize series.

We would all love to hear from you on what you consider the path forward for Warrior. The door is always open on the forums. Feel free to drop into any of these threads to discuss their contents and why you like/don't like what you see. We're all happy to help you brainstorm.

Excellent summary, Lan. Thanks for this!

 

Thank you for all the hard work you've done over the years being a spokesperson and advocate for the warrior community.  I have learned a lot from you, and you are a great example for all of us in your dedication, thoughtfulness, and passion for the game. I hope the Devs will look to players like you for ideas on how to make GW2 better.  You guys are the game's greatest resource, and it would be foolish to disregard it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Excellent summary, Lan. Thanks for this!

+1

1 minute ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Thank you for all the hard work you've done over the years being a spokesperson and advocate for the warrior community.  I have learned a lot from you, and you are a great example for all of us in your dedication, thoughtfulness, and passion for the game. I hope the Devs will look to players like you for ideas on how to make GW2 better.  You guys are the game's greatest resource, and it would be foolish to disregard it.

I'm not some god tier player, I'm pretty sure some of you would wipe the floor with me depending on what random af build I'm tinkering with on any given day, but I know alot, and I know a lot of the little synergies that exist. I've certainly helped a lot of warriors over the years find builds that worked for them, both in the forums in the open and over direct messages, and that is because of all the tinkering that I do.

Thanks for the praises, I certainly hope that the Devs take the time to read the commentary on each of the profession forums, they certainly are a great resource for them as they seek to have more frequent, and one would think, better balance patches.

There has been a lot of discontent on the warrior side since Feb2020. There has been a great deal of thought and effort by all of us in what would help warrior do better beyond just increasing damage floaters. We'll just have to wait and see what they do.

That said it seems pretty clear that nothing truly big is going to happen until after the EoD release.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

😢

There is still hope?

 

Good job for existsing warrior mains!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Special thx to the particularly active ones in the forums, including you Lan first and foremost, Calmthestorm, Vancho and people who have made very descriptive essays to address warrior's issues like anbujackson in the omnibus. Truly, I have never seen so much dedictation from that many players in trying to come together and make suggestions. And even if nothing changes, keep running the warrior banner guys! We are quite rare!

 

P.S. If you want some warrior motivation, go listen to some GOW music or something it goes pretty well with us. XD

Edited September 13, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

😢

There is still hope?

 

Good job for existsing warrior mains!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Special thx to the particularly active ones in the forums, including you Lan first and foremost, Calmthestorm, Vancho and people who have made very descriptive essays to address warrior's issues like anbujackson in the omnibus. Truly, I have never seen so much dedictation from that many players in trying to come together and make suggestions. And even if nothing changes, keep running the warrior banner guys! We are quite rare!

Indeed @Vancho.8750 has some great ideas as well, He even put some into the Omnibus at my request. He hasn't put his set of commentaries in an easy to search for format title wise, but the devs would be wise to read through his contributions as well.

Also, GM, you're allowed to have hope until they completely botch the post EoD balance okay. Hopefully they will read through all the commentary we've produced since Feb2020 and take it into account. Thankfully most of it is in the Omnibus, so at least they have a consolidated source to read through.

@Raymond Lukes.6305, @Josh Davis.7865, @Cal Cohen.2358, if you didn't catch that, the Omnibus is a consolidated source you can use as reference.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Excellent summary, Lan. Thanks for this!

 

Thank you for all the hard work you've done over the years being a spokesperson and advocate for the warrior community.  I have learned a lot from you, and you are a great example for all of us in your dedication, thoughtfulness, and passion for the game. I hope the Devs will look to players like you for ideas on how to make GW2 better.  You guys are the game's greatest resource, and it would be foolish to disregard it.

This^ and I say that as a teef main.

[Vancho.8750]

@Lan Deathrider.5910

Most of the stuff that I have said in the big thread are covered in the small threads or I have thrown a comment in there, might do a rant for condition management since I don't seem to find anyone to have started a thread about it. 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

13 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910

Most of the stuff that I have said in the big thread are covered in the small threads or I have thrown a comment in there, might do a rant for condition management since I don't seem to find anyone to have started a thread about it. 

 

Yeah, that needs to happen lol. It has mostly to do with how they reworked resistance. I was going to get to that eventually, but feel free to start your own thread.

 

Though having Cleansing Ire proc on using a burst rather than hitting with one would help a great deal in that department.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

26 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

This^ and I say that as a teef main.

You're always welcome on this side of the forums mate.

[Vancho.8750]

2 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

This^ and I say that as a teef main.

Scrolled around in the thief section, can you stir their brains a little , they want another assassin speck, like core, DD and DE were not enough. Thief situation is probably worse in the build diversity department even compared to warrior, it just has roaming specks for PVP, WvW and surprisingly PVE. I know people are happy with the several iterations of the same thing , but having little bit more options for positions in PVP would be great, a useful damage and support build for Zergs, also something special in the support department for PVE would help, Yet another DPS thief isn't helping much in raids and fractals when I can take more Firebrands for example.

Can you poke em a little, since all the buff teef suggestions revolve around "I wana oneshot people" , and none are how can I make a build good for dueling but not that great at rotating or how can I make a good build for WvW zerg. 

Why is thief pigeonholed in the same gameplay across core and the 2 elite specks? Its like vanilla ice-cream in there but with slightly different toppings.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Vancho.8750

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Scrolled around in the thief section, can you stir their brains a little , they want another assassin speck, like core, DD and DE were not enough. Thief situation is probably worse in the build diversity department even compared to warrior, it just has roaming specks for PVP, WvW and surprisingly PVE. I know people are happy with the several iterations of the same thing , but having little bit more options for positions in PVP would be great, a useful damage and support build for Zergs, also something special in the support department for PVE would help, Yet another DPS thief isn't helping much in raids and fractals when I can take more Firebrands for example.

Can you poke em a little, since all the buff teef suggestions revolve around "I wana oneshot people" , and none are how can I make a build good for dueling but not that great at rotating or how can I make a good build for WvW zerg. 

Why is thief pigeonholed in the same gameplay across core and the 2 elite specks? Its like vanilla ice-cream in there but with slightly different toppings.

I personally wanted a off hand sword ronin type brawler spec that has 0 stealth and has evades, mobility and utility skills for defense, maybe a block similar to rangers gs block as one of the turnover skills and the rest of the kit geared for non stealth brawling. Unfortunately with scepter being leaked I fear its gonna be some shadow type mage heavily leaning on stealth magics relying on yet again a ganking playstyle unfortunately.

[Vancho.8750]

38 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

I personally wanted a off hand sword ronin type brawler spec that has 0 stealth and has evades, mobility and utility skills for defense, maybe a block similar to rangers gs block as one of the turnover skills and the rest of the kit geared for non stealth brawling. Unfortunately with scepter being leaked I fear its gonna be some shadow type mage heavily leaning on stealth magics relying on yet again a ganking playstyle unfortunately.

I bet it is Conditions and Alacrity support thing for PVE. This might make good for Fractal comps. It is something other than DPS speck number 4.

Edited September 13, 2021 by Vancho.8750