Anonymous Poll for Ranked: SoloQ or DuoQ

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Just forget about 5 men queue for now.

If you have the choice between solo or duoq, what would you prefer for the PvP community?

And please refrain from any drama. It's just out of curiosity.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Terrorsquad.2349
typo v1

[garkos.2973]

PUSH

[Genesis.5169]

If the community could vote to never lose any game they would but if everyone pvped and never lost we wouldn't have pvp at all was stupid back then to put it to a vote and its stupid now I support duoQ i support all queues. Anets kitten way to skirt responsibility for there game is following us to this day.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Terrorsquad.2349]

Quite curious why SoloQ is getting so far ahead. Want to know what the thoughts or reasons are

[Swagg.9236]

Honestly, duo-queue makes it so easy to get top 250 with this dead community.  Making everything solo-queue would maybe be the factor to push individual skill and legitimate communication/planning/foresight above sheer RNG as the consistent determining factor for ranked PvP (obviously, GW2 PvP will always be heavily influenced by RNG because nobody is forced to run "good" builds, but removing duo-queue might mitigate the oppression of this game's crippling weakness to third-party comms, team comp hard-counters and match-fixing).

Edited October 12, 2021 by Swagg.9236

[Master Ketsu.4569]

1 hour ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Quite curious why SoloQ is getting so far ahead. Want to know what the thoughts or reasons are

Probably because Duo Q is extremely exploitable in the way matchmaking currently works. There is basically no r-penalty for it like there is in other games, making it easy to hide rating with alts ( Person with higher rating swaps to alt. ). This makes it ripe for abuse. 

The smarter move rather than removing duo Q IMO would just be matching Duos above 1500 as if they have 5% higher rating. 

[Bazsi.2734]

3 hours ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Quite curious why SoloQ is getting so far ahead. Want to know what the thoughts or reasons are

DuoQ-ing is an unfair advantage because not everyone can get it. Imagine if all 300-ish people q-ing at the time consolidate into 150 duoQ-s and noone is flying solo. There would be no matches.
Someone has to give up having a teammate, having better coordination and more synergies. Someone has to settle for lower overall winrate by queuing alone.

As long as duoQ exists ranked is not actually a competetive gamemode, it's a joke. I stopped caring about the top of the ladder when they reinstated duoQ in high ratings.

[TheDarkness.6947]

3 hours ago, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Quite curious why SoloQ is getting so far ahead. Want to know what the thoughts or reasons are

Your rating is individual. 
Your rank is individual. 
Should you get a title, it’s awarded to you alone. 
So to me, DuoQ is a pollutant in a system that measures your individual merit to make a success of whatever team you’re placed on, regardless if there is any willful stuff going on to try to manipulate MMS in a way that violates the TOS. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 10/8/2021 at 5:42 PM, Terrorsquad.2349 said:

Just forget about 5 men queue for now.

If you have the choice between solo or duoq, what would you prefer for the PvP community?

And please refrain from any drama. It's just out of curiosity.

It very seriously doesn't matter.

Nothing will change if duo changed to solo, absolutely nothing.

[Morwath.9817]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It very seriously doesn't matter.

Nothing will change if duo changed to solo, absolutely nothing.

 

Changing duoQ into soloQ changes everything, all players who duo que have either to dodge each other or they risk getting paired against each other, especially on higher ratings, which would lead to more balanced matches.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

We've kind of been down this road before guys and gals. We started with team que, then we had duo q, then we had solo q and now we have duo q again... now we going back to solo q? lol

 

In order to understand this properly, we need just a quick look at the history of the game and get to the issue for why we are where we are.

 

People didn't like solo q because not being able to play with friends felt bad, and it drove people away from the game and further splintered the community (and lowered population)

 

Think about it...playing solo in an MMO doesn't even really make much sense on a logical level anyway.

 

Looking at PVE and you can see the damage solo-gaming in an MMO causes in real time, how nobody speaks or really interacts  with each other...it's because the game is designed to be almost entirely solo, and even though people play gw2, these people are not playing 8 hours every day in pve...they are playing for an hour, logging off and returning next weekend. This structure does not build communities...it is a dopamine fix for the folks that don't have  the time to play games.

 

Go to a meta event, and in a swath of 100 or so people, nobody will speak to one another...does nobody find that strange? I have video footage of me doing a meta event for about an hour...complete silence...I asked multiple times if people were on a discord or some other chatting service...nothing. I fell asleep at my computer an hour into this meta because of how boring it is...half an hour of my character afk because i fell asleep caught on footage lol.

 

The point is that, the reason we have duo q right now is because people didn't like the solo experience of spvp... There's two aspects to society and that's competition, and cooperation...eliminating cooperation means the only thing left is competition, and that pretty much goes against human nature...being social creatures, that built a society based on the combination of  cooperation and competition principles.

 

So does solo q make the game more fair? Of course it would...but at what cost?

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Morwath.9817]

You got your point @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 , but I think 5v5 with duoQ is just unfair. For people wanting to play duo, there simply should be 2v2 ranked avalible as duoQ only, which I think would please wider audience as you could play competitive with your friend(s) and its much easier to get one friend to play with you than four of them (reason why ATs replaced groupQ).

Edit 1: I mean, goal should be to please as many groups of players at same time as possible, rather than make one group more happy than other in cost of that second group. Following that logic, if we would remove duoQ and make ranked duoQ deathmatch avalible during each season we would achieve following content:

1. SoloQ ranked for SoloQ players.
2. DuoQ ranked deathmatch for DuoQ players.
3. ATs for competitive groups of players who prefer such enviroment.

Edit 2: Then, once enough DuoQ scene would be established, we could also add Duo Deathmatch ATs as well to make it more competitive game mode 🙂

Edited October 12, 2021 by Morwath.9817

[Terrorsquad.2349]

5 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

DuoQ-ing is an unfair advantage because not everyone can get it. Imagine if all 300-ish people q-ing at the time consolidate into 150 duoQ-s and noone is flying solo. There would be no matches.
Someone has to give up having a teammate, having better coordination and more synergies. Someone has to settle for lower overall winrate by queuing alone.

As long as duoQ exists ranked is not actually a competetive gamemode, it's a joke. I stopped caring about the top of the ladder when they reinstated duoQ in high ratings.

Good arguments.

Having the option to duoq vs people who can't is too much of a gain.
So the balance and fairness isn't there to be competitive, in my opinion.

[Downstate.4697]

A solo pvp experience will cause people to get bored. The community started dying when the got rid of 5 man queues imo. Id rather have a seperate solo and 5 man queue with 5-10 minutes queue times

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

5 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

 

Changing duoQ into soloQ changes everything, all players who duo que have either to dodge each other or they risk getting paired against each other, especially on higher ratings, which would lead to more balanced matches.

You realize that they DO already dodge each other right?

Have you not been watching the recent videos about win trading exposed at high levels?

Do you really think that solo queue will magically alter the results of how this functions?

That is naively hopeful my friend.

 

Look, this is really not hard to understand. In a 5 man queue you can select only friends who you know are not throwing. If you could do this, it mean that your team could block itself from the effects of win trading. The win traders will still win trade yes, but against your team. If you have to face a team who win trades they cannot do it to your team, they will have to face your team in an actual match. The more players you actually can invite to a team, the greater your chances of become resistant or even immune to win trading. 5man can be immune, 4man can be heavily resistant, 3man resistant somewhat, 2man somewhat able to carry through a bad match unless they have 2+ throws on your team, 1person solo is just screwed and we've seen this season after season. 1person cannot carry through bad matches.

Here is the catch, listen up real good case it's true. Solo Que will not stop win trading and throw tactics. You are the most susceptible to throw games while being alone. You get the worst matches while being alone. Games are impossible to carry when you are alone. The match quality will not magically improve when you are alone, it will be worse.

I find that in EVERY instance of people who super hard rally for solo only, it is due to 2x things: 1) No offense, but they are mostly ignorant to what is going on in this scene and how match making works, and 2) Secretly, they are socially intimidated or reluctant to communicate with other players and find a duo partner, even casual ones that only play together once a week. They honestly are like crabs in a barrel and would rather see everyone be forced to play solo like they do with their social weaknesses, rather than buck up and get involved in the multi-play dynamic of a mmorpg pvp mode that was designed for 5man team play.

 

At the end of the day, you know what I've said is true. And now you should ask yourself, what exactly prevents you from making a friend to queue with? How exactly are you going to feel when solo queue really does show up and then you DO happen to make a friend and think to yourself: "Oh man, I would have liked to queue with this guy. Man that would have been a lot of fun." Do you think that maybe the only reason you vouch for solo queue is because you have not yet made that friend? If your best friend from IRL were to play this game with you, wouldn't it be a bummer if you couldn't actually play the game with him?

 

Be careful what you wish for.

[Genesis.5169]

18 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You realize that they DO already dodge each other right?

Have you not been watching the recent videos about win trading exposed at high levels?

Do you really think that solo queue will magically alter the results of how this functions?

That is naively hopeful my friend.

 

Look, this is really not hard to understand. In a 5 man queue you can select only friends who you know are not throwing. If you could do this, it mean that your team could block itself from the effects of win trading. The win traders will still win trade yes, but against your team. If you have to face a team who win trades they cannot do it to your team, they will have to face your team in an actual match. The more players you actually can invite to a team, the greater your chances of become resistant or even immune to win trading. 5man can be immune, 4man can be heavily resistant, 3man resistant somewhat, 2man somewhat able to carry through a bad match unless they have 2+ throws on your team, 1person solo is just screwed and we've seen this season after season. 1person cannot carry through bad matches.

Here is the catch, listen up real good case it's true. Solo Que will not stop win trading and throw tactics. You are the most susceptible to throw games while being alone. You get the worst matches while being alone. Games are impossible to carry when you are alone. The match quality will not magically improve when you are alone, it will be worse.

I find that in EVERY instance of people who super hard rally for solo only, it is due to 2x things: 1) No offense, but they are mostly ignorant to what is going on in this scene and how match making works, and 2) Secretly, they are socially intimidated or reluctant to communicate with other players and find a duo partner, even casual ones that only play together once a week. They honestly are like crabs in a barrel and would rather see everyone be forced to play solo like they do with their social weaknesses, rather than buck up and get involved in the multi-play dynamic of a mmorpg pvp mode that was designed for 5man team play.

 

At the end of the day, you know what I've said is true. And now you should ask yourself, what exactly prevents you from making a friend to queue with? How exactly are you going to feel when solo queue really does show up and then you DO happen to make a friend and think to yourself: "Oh man, I would have liked to queue with this guy. Man that would have been a lot of fun." Do you think that maybe the only reason you vouch for solo queue is because you have not yet made that friend? If your best friend from IRL were to play this game with you, wouldn't it be a bummer if you couldn't actually play the game with him?

 

Be careful what you wish for.

Misread your post.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

5 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Would the win traders have to avoid the 5 man queues?
You already know the answer you didn't put it in because you actually do not care about the queue you care about getting Wins.

Bonus question you think 5man premades would out number wintraders in the top end of the game ill wait you also already know the answer but i'm sure your going to play dumb.

Yeah dude that's what a competitive scene is, people trying hard to win games.

But they can't win when there is a fascist like regime of players controlling the top of the leaderboards each season who use match manipulation tactics to cheat everyone out of wins so they can sell things for 10s of thousands of dollars.

The more players you can put on your team, the greater your immunity.

The less players you can put on your team, the weaker you become to match manipulation tactics.

If you can't understand this you're an ape or someone who is still trying to toss propaganda in support of win trading.

And yes, there are groups of players between p2-p3 range who could contest those players on equal footing if they weren't being match manipulated all of the time, and if those cheaters would get banned for the obvious hack use. Most of them almost always are running at least speedhack, they're just good at hiding it.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Genesis.5169]

9 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said:

Would the win traders have to avoid the 5 man queues?
You already know the answer you didn't put it in because you actually do not care about the queue you care about getting Wins.

Bonus question you think 5man premades would out number wintraders in the top end of the game ill wait you also already know the answer but i'm sure your going to play dumb.

 

4 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah dude that's what a competitive scene is, people trying hard to win games.

But they can't win when there is a fascist like regime of players controlling the top of the leaderboards each season who use match manipulation tactics to cheat everyone out of wins so they can sell things for 10s of thousands of dollars.

The more players you can put on your team, the greater your immunity.

The less players you can put on your team, the weaker you become to match manipulation tactics.

If you can't understand this you're an ape or someone who is still trying to toss propaganda in support of win trading.

I read the first couple of sentences then commented then i edited my post you good.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Genesis.5169

[Tescao.3042]

I understand the great desire of the command queue of many people, but there is an example from real time (World of Warcraft), what this leads to, even in a game with a larger online than gw2. The result is boosting, the loss of millions of players, misunderstanding the possibility of many setups (for example, modern players do not know what Shadow Cleave is).

Dead Raiting Battleground. The small number of people who play it do not understand how to play it properly, guided by the counter between specializations. Here I described what happened to the high end pvp content

(Now divide and conquer has gone too far and will continue to go further and further, it got a more bitter taste. Now this happens in games such as p2w. This happens even in such a giant as World of Warcraft, people were divided into raiders, key hunters, casuals, arena players, bg players. Each of these types of players thinks that others are not needed and Blizzard is quite satisfied with this.

The funny thing is that people have not learned how to play high-level pvp content called RBG(there is no meta here, there are only strategic counter between specializations) and consider this content dead. They did not even try to understand that the balance was not built for the arena, but for RBG - War Craft and to play RBG wisely, you need to have 2 tanks, because there are tanks who do not know how to carry a flag, but good gunner. There's even a hint from Blizzard in the raid profile settings, it sounds like this - Show the main tank and the gunner (meaning the second tank).

So WoW players made themselves meta slaves, not understanding what the highest skill of Warcraft is, stuck in stereotypes because of the separation between themselves)

 

Be careful what you wish, guys. Personally, I am not worried about what will happen in the end, because I realized for myself that all these insignificant
situations (There are no problems in the world, Mr. Green. There are only situations (c) film Revolver) are corrected by increasing the number of players (7vs7, 8vs8, 9vs9 or 10vs10 ) playing in conquest.  An environment with a large number of people will always be less conducive to ego development.

Edited October 12, 2021 by DomHemingway.8436

[Morwath.9817]

55 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You realize that they DO already dodge each other right?

Have you not been watching the recent videos about win trading exposed at high levels?

Do you really think that solo queue will magically alter the results of how this functions?

That is naively hopeful my friend.

 

Look, this is really not hard to understand. In a 5 man queue you can select only friends who you know are not throwing. If you could do this, it mean that your team could block itself from the effects of win trading. The win traders will still win trade yes, but against your team. If you have to face a team who win trades they cannot do it to your team, they will have to face your team in an actual match. The more players you actually can invite to a team, the greater your chances of become resistant or even immune to win trading. 5man can be immune, 4man can be heavily resistant, 3man resistant somewhat, 2man somewhat able to carry through a bad match unless they have 2+ throws on your team, 1person solo is just screwed and we've seen this season after season. 1person cannot carry through bad matches.

Here is the catch, listen up real good case it's true. Solo Que will not stop win trading and throw tactics. You are the most susceptible to throw games while being alone. You get the worst matches while being alone. Games are impossible to carry when you are alone. The match quality will not magically improve when you are alone, it will be worse.

I find that in EVERY instance of people who super hard rally for solo only, it is due to 2x things: 1) No offense, but they are mostly ignorant to what is going on in this scene and how match making works, and 2) Secretly, they are socially intimidated or reluctant to communicate with other players and find a duo partner, even casual ones that only play together once a week. They honestly are like crabs in a barrel and would rather see everyone be forced to play solo like they do with their social weaknesses, rather than buck up and get involved in the multi-play dynamic of a mmorpg pvp mode that was designed for 5man team play.

 

At the end of the day, you know what I've said is true. And now you should ask yourself, what exactly prevents you from making a friend to queue with? How exactly are you going to feel when solo queue really does show up and then you DO happen to make a friend and think to yourself: "Oh man, I would have liked to queue with this guy. Man that would have been a lot of fun." Do you think that maybe the only reason you vouch for solo queue is because you have not yet made that friend? If your best friend from IRL were to play this game with you, wouldn't it be a bummer if you couldn't actually play the game with him?

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

If you want to go that route, I will only say that rotten apples on NA server ain't really my problem *shrugs*.

 

I don't think you understand basic issues with duoQ existing within soloQ but let me give you few examples.

1. Chances to carry a match by soloQ player is much lower than duoQ player, which is obvious for you. However, it means that on average duoQ wins more games than soloQ in game mode thats supposed reward individual performance.
2. Existence of duoQ means team with duoQ has higher chances of winning than team without it. On top of that better coordinated duoQ has higher chances of winning a match than team with "weaker" duoQ. Yet, those teams have 5 people each, not just two. 
3. DuoQ has negative impact on matchmaking due to serval reasons. If two best players in que are duoQ [by the best I mean the highest MMR in que when match is made], matchmaking can't do basic thing it should: put them against each other, instead it can do only one thing. If DuoQ players are high rating player and low rating it will cause issue for matchmaking as they won't be considered high rating as DuoQ, which opens door for exploting matchmaking.
4. On top of that, if you "can" play in duoQ, unreasonable would be to soloQ as one could consider shooting yourself into foot leaderboard wise. Thus, you should play only when you "can" manipulate matchmaking, not when you "want" to play.

In general I think it outweights "positives" of existence of duoQ within soloQ.

 

About your bolded part. Why do you think I've suggested 2v2 ranked being avalible 24/7 365 days a year? 🙂

 

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

41 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

 

If you want to go that route, I will only say that rotten apples on NA server ain't really my problem *shrugs*.

 

I don't think you understand basic issues with duoQ existing within soloQ but let me give you few examples.

1. Chances to carry a match by soloQ player is much lower than duoQ player, which is obvious for you. However, it means that on average duoQ wins more games than soloQ in game mode thats supposed reward individual performance.
2. Existence of duoQ means team with duoQ has higher chances of winning than team without it. On top of that better coordinated duoQ has higher chances of winning a match than team with "weaker" duoQ. Yet, those teams have 5 people each, not just two. 
3. DuoQ has negative impact on matchmaking due to serval reasons. If two best players in que are duoQ [by the best I mean the highest MMR in que when match is made], matchmaking can't do basic thing it should: put them against each other, instead it can do only one thing. If DuoQ players are high rating player and low rating it will cause issue for matchmaking as they won't be considered high rating as DuoQ, which opens door for exploting matchmaking.
4. On top of that, if you "can" play in duoQ, unreasonable would be to soloQ as one could consider shooting yourself into foot leaderboard wise. Thus, you should play only when you "can" manipulate matchmaking, not when you "want" to play.

In general I think it outweights "positives" of existence of duoQ within soloQ.

 

About your bolded part. Why do you think I've suggested 2v2 ranked being avalible 24/7 365 days a year? 🙂

 

 

Let's clear a few things up here:

1. I am not disagreeing with you. In a scene where no one was cheating, what you are suggesting would be perfect. However this is not the case. In GW2 I'll guarantee you that in NA we have at least 30% of the population actively involved in match manipulation tactics. It isn't just guys at the top selling titles anymore. There are groups of middle-tiered players literally "squading up" to queue ranked nowadays to get their titles, as well as people who simply multi-screen run bots to synch queue and throw games for themselves. The people who are doing this are the people who play the game the most. This 30% effects everyone who queues. I would imagine at this point that roughly 50% of games queued with participants at 1500+ rating, are throw games. In other words, the match was already decided before the gate even opened.
2. This means that we are far far from achieving the resolve from your suggestion that you are imagining. It's not that you are wrong, it's that it is not possible. The sheer amount of cheating will cause your suggestion to work in reverse, and that is what I was trying to explain to you.
3. I know it's hard to chew on, swallow, and digest, but the only way to actually fix this problem, is to reenable 5man queue so people can opt to block themselves from the effects of synch queuing, throwing, win trading.
4. INB4 responding to me about the evils of 5man queue because you are still against 5man+ teams now in your games, you just aren't aware of it because it doesn't show it on the B screen, because those 5man teams are in a discord together signed in on alts and skewed across both the RED and the BLUE teams in your game, all collaborating to make sure a certain person or two is winning their games. They take turns doing this for each other and that is why it is called win trading.
5. You have to wake up and make a choice at some point. Would you rather lose to 5man+ teams that you cannot see who are rigging & throwing your games, or would you rather lose to an actual 5man team that you can see who is at least beating your team of friends legitimately, the way the game was intended to be played? I mean if you want to continue advocating solo only and you are satisfied with the placebo that it creates, that's great, continue on. But if you want fair games and the ability actually compete and win at the level you should be competing and winning at, you need to seriously rethink your priorities towards advocating solo queue or even maintaining duo queue. All it does is enable synch queue throwing, which at this point is wildly out of control.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

It doesn’t really matter…we’ve already been down this road…when they instated solo que last time it drove half the population away….why is the community running in circles? Just look at the past we already know what happens.

Edited October 12, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

It doesn’t really matter…we’ve already been down this road…when they instated solo que last time it drove half the population away….why is the community running in circles? Just look at the past we already know what happens.

Yeah man, I don't understand it.

It's really easy to see that the game was at its height of popularity when 5man queue ranked with team leaderboards was still around, and then that popularity very quickly bottomed out as soon as they added solo/duo only.

I mean it was like 1 to 2 months after solo/duo was added, I swear we lost 40% or more of the population almost immediately. I had an actual pvp guild back then. When things changed, 9/10ths of those players just vanished and never logged in again. And that is no embellishment.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Ronald McDonald.8165]

22 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This 30% effects everyone who queues. I would imagine at this point that roughly 50% of games queued with participants at 1500+ rating, are throw games. In other words, the match was already decided before the gate even opened.

You realize you are just pulling numbers out of your kitten here? You have absolutely ZERO basis for what you’re saying. 

[Morwath.9817]

17 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah man, I don't understand it.

It's really easy to see that the game was at its height of popularity when 5man queue ranked with team leaderboards was still around, and then that popularity very quickly bottomed out as soon as they added solo/duo only.

I mean it was like 1 to 2 months after solo/duo was added, I swear we lost 40% or more of the population almost immediately. I had an actual pvp guild back then. When things changed, 9/10ths of those players just vanished and never logged in again. And that is no embellishment.

 

You can que as 5 man. ATs are designed for that, and teams can't dodge each other.

To win monthly they simply have to play against other teams and win. I don't really get whats problem here?

Maybe in reality average 5 mans during 5 man+soloQ were just hoping to get matched against 5 soloQ players and stomp them without much effort?