The Power of the Catalyst!

[Ceryxobitus.3012]

In the first beta, I was skeptical, I was hoping for a more tanky, straightforward class. I just couldn't seem to figure it out... But, now that the spec is in the build editor, I've had more time to play around with it. For anyone doubting what this spec is capable of, keep reading.

• - 3,682 strength
• - 22,185 hit points
• - 100% critical chance
• - 300.47% critical damage
• - 3 minions (2 elementals, 1 golem)
• - Tons of vulnerability from skills
• - 5 lightning skills that trigger elemental empowerment, 8 if you cycle elements
• - 5 lightning skills that trigger lightning rod for up to 1,542 dmg a pop against heavy armor
• - Weakness, might, and fury on critical hits
• - Blindness on dodge
• - Quickness from the lightning jade sphere
• - Range attacks 600-1200 range
• - Great single target and AOE damage
• - The ability to stay in lightning if you want - less piano playing!!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAYJlFwoYXsKGJW2XdRVA-zRRYDBxJGVcjFSglQwRQFJg+HkwYP8A-e

**Make sure to max might stacks, elemental empowerment, and sigil of cruelty stacks and click to turn on the fury boon if you look at the build link.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Ceryxobitus.3012
forgot one of the details

[SeTect.5918]

1 hour ago, Ceryxobitus.3012 said:

In the first beta, I was skeptical, I was hoping for a more tanky, straightforward class. I just couldn't seem to figure it out... But, now that the spec is in the build editor, I've had more time to play around with it. For anyone doubting what this spec is capable of, keep reading.

• - 3,682 strength
• - 22,185 hit points
• - 100% critical chance
• - 300.47% critical damage
• - 3 minions (2 elementals, 1 golem)
• - Tons of vulnerability from skills
• - 5 lightning skills that trigger elemental empowerment, 8 if you cycle elements
• - 5 lightning skills that trigger lightning rod for up to 1,542 dmg a pop against heavy armor
• - Weakness, might, and fury on critical hits
• - Blindness on dodge
• - Quickness from the lightning jade sphere
• - Range attacks 600-1200 range
• - Great single target and AOE damage
• - The ability to stay in lightning if you want - less piano playing!!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAYJlFwoYXsKGJW2XdRVA-zRRYDBxJGVcjFSglQwRQFJg+HkwYP8A-e

*Make sure to max might stacks, elemental empowerment, and sigil of cruelty stacks if you look at the build link.

Is that an open world pve build? bc the damage wont be really effective. At this point i would rather play condi catalyst. Somehow like that:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAg2lJwcZTsLGJOKXbxaA-zxIY1ohvMSoA6IB08iICbgLAEJ/HA-e cele cata
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAg2lJwcZTsLGJOKPnxaA-zRRYcRDRhM06BRXD4cREhFAiJwD-e condi cata

Cele cata offers higher boon uptime than condi cata but condi cata deals more dmg and has higher hp and toughness.
Both build are using dagger/focus for dodges on fire and earth skill 3.
On condi cata i did put 2 sigils of bursting. Yes, one of them is useless. I did put 2 there because you can basically choose yourself which one u wanna on the 2nd slot. You could also change some trailblazer stuff to dire stuff and put a sigil of malice on the slot. Just dont use power focused sigils on that build.

I did try the condi tank open world build on beta with exotic equip with bad stats and runes and sigils and it already had very fine damage. I just am not sure about the sustain. But things shouldnt go too bad with around 24k hp and around 3150 armor points. You also have good prot uptime and 2 dodges on weapon skills. 1 block on utility with a bit barrier.
Remember to summon ice elemental for better healing.

If you want to use a power build. The one you linked already looks good but it would need some optimizing maybe. Mine too bc i did them in 5 minutes.

If you look for a dps build i would fully go away with minions. They r just...bad for dps. Every group will say "no" to minions if they search a dps. They are just not welcomed.

Also you should mention that "stats" dont make a whole class. I think Condi renegade has only like 1500-1600 condi dmg on stats and still is one of the best condi classes.

Edited October 15, 2021 by SeTect.5918

[Jski.6180]

If your running pve why do you need that much base vit when you generate a lot of vit from % effects? Maybe full zerk is the best chose for pve.

Wvw where the real builds are.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAYJlFwWZeMF2JO+KuRVA-zVIYRU1PGtSlmVhmZR/RL-w

 

[Ceryxobitus.3012]

I wouldn't say I'm the best elementalist player. The class has always seemed too squishy, so marauder's with a handful of minions is a safer route for PvE than berserker for me. I play mainly PvE, so I'm hopeful this build will have some luck in getting me around with an ele. 

[Jski.6180]

9 hours ago, Ceryxobitus.3012 said:

I wouldn't say I'm the best elementalist player. The class has always seemed too squishy, so marauder's with a handful of minions is a safer route for PvE than berserker for me. I play mainly PvE, so I'm hopeful this build will have some luck in getting me around with an ele. 

I think the "free" hp you get from +20% to all should be enofe to keep you alive most of the time but maybe throwing in some vit in there should help. I kind of wish runes of the vamp. was a "higher dmg buff on kill" and not a 1k heal most of the time. The builder web page seems a bit off for the +% effect for cata so i would not go all in on builds yet.

[Aedil.1296]

Yea great build...against a static inoffensive golem with /godmode on. 

Cause let's be honest: as shown in Catalyst stream presentation, you will need godmode even against a test golem with Catalyst if u don't wanna die 👍

Edited October 16, 2021 by Aedil.1296

[Ragnarox.9601]

I tried marauder, dmg was underwhelming in both pvp and wvw, in pve you can play everything you want cause mobs dont have brains. 

 

Lack of dmg, heals, and everything else is trademark for this spec.

[Infusion.7149]

Even full zerk is ineffective on catalyst unless it is a large hitbox.

Crescent Wind 16.247%  (hammer 3 on air https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crescent_Wind)
Flame Wheel     12.552% (hammer 3 on fire https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Wheel)
Icy Coil     6.855% (hammer 3 on water https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icy_Coil)
Rocky Loop 5.768%  (hammer 3 on earth https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rocky_Loop)
total damage contribution = 41% , which is ridiculous

Not sure why anyone would bother with it in PVP/WVW when the only defensive tool it has is a block that isn't a duration block but an inferior aegis.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Kodama.6453]

12 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Even full zerk is ineffective on catalyst unless it is a large hitbox.

Crescent Wind 16.247%  (hammer 3 on air https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crescent_Wind)
Flame Wheel     12.552% (hammer 3 on fire https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flame_Wheel)
Icy Coil     6.855% (hammer 3 on water https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icy_Coil)
Rocky Loop 5.768%  (hammer 3 on earth https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rocky_Loop)
total damage contribution = 41% , which is ridiculous

Not sure why anyone would bother with it in PVP/WVW when the only defensive tool it has is a block that isn't a duration block but an inferior aegis.

Catalyst has a duration based block on a utility skill (fortified earth, 3 seconds).

Besides this, it also provides many other defensive tools.

[Milosz.5938]

On 10/15/2021 at 5:58 PM, Ceryxobitus.3012 said:

• - 3,682 strength
• - 22,185 hit points
• - 100% critical chance
• - 300.47% critical damage
• - 3 minions (2 elementals, 1 golem)
• - Tons of vulnerability from skills
• - 5 lightning skills that trigger elemental empowerment, 8 if you cycle elements
• - 5 lightning skills that trigger lightning rod for up to 1,542 dmg a pop against heavy armor
• - Weakness, might, and fury on critical hits
• - Blindness on dodge
• - Quickness from the lightning jade sphere
• - Range attacks 600-1200 range
• - Great single target and AOE damage
• - The ability to stay in lightning if you want - less piano playing!!

haha Thank you, you make my day 🙂 This is like 'fairy - tale'. Do you play the same game, I mean guild wars 2?

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

22 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Catalyst has a duration based block on a utility skill (fortified earth, 3 seconds).

Besides this, it also provides many other defensive tools.

If it comes to hammer and catalyst itself then it provides 1 stun break, which is half dead skill, 1 block which you mentioned, which is also garbo(better than Arcane Shield but still garbo) and pseudo-block on Earth 4, beside that nothing really could be counted as "defensive tool". Heal and condi cleanse are just meme not worth using.
Unless you count these "cc" skills as "defensive tools" then it does have some, but they're still useless.

[Kodama.6453]

28 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

If it comes to hammer and catalyst itself then it provides 1 stun break, which is half dead skill, 1 block which you mentioned, which is also garbo(better than Arcane Shield but still garbo) and pseudo-block on Earth 4, beside that nothing really could be counted as "defensive tool". Heal and condi cleanse are just meme not worth using.
Unless you count these "cc" skills as "defensive tools" then it does have some, but they're still useless.

• Strike damage reduction on earth hammer 3
• Condi damage reduction on water hammer 3
• Up to 20% bonus stats (including toughness/vitality/healing power)
• Stability on aura application
• Extra endurance regeneration
• Weakness application

But let me guess, you will just also dismiss all this stuff with "well yeah but it not good!".

Catalyst provides quite alot of defense mechanically. It might need some buffs to numbers here and there, but the statement that it "doesn't bring any defensive tools besides a pseudo aegis" is incredibly ignorant.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

7 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

• Strike damage reduction on earth hammer 3
• Condi damage reduction on water hammer 3
• Up to 20% bonus stats (including toughness/vitality/healing power)
• Stability on aura application
• Extra endurance regeneration
• Weakness application

But let me guess, you will just also dismiss all this stuff with "well yeah but it not good!".

Catalyst provides quite alot of defense mechanically. It might need some buffs to numbers here and there, but the statement that it "doesn't bring any defensive tools besides a pseudo aegis" is incredibly ignorant.

5% damage reductions = worthless in actual combat.
Bonus stats is a joke though, it may sounds great on paper for people like you, but in reality trying to keep them up won't be easy, only usable in PvE golem benchmarks. There's also difference between 20% from 10 and 1000.
Stability on Aura as usual in wrong trait line, it should be on Tempest, not on Catalyst, beside that it's not "reactive" gameplay but "seeing into the future" thingie, very very very situational.
Endurance regeneration, another misplaced trait, though the only usable thing out of all you've mentioned.
Weakness a 50/50 condition that'll be useless most of the time.
All of what you have pointed will be great on PvE golem, in an actual combat you can forget about it that it'll be useful against anything with brain.

[Kodama.6453]

34 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

5% damage reductions = worthless in actual combat.
Bonus stats is a joke though, it may sounds great on paper for people like you, but in reality trying to keep them up won't be easy, only usable in PvE golem benchmarks. There's also difference between 20% from 10 and 1000.
Stability on Aura as usual in wrong trait line, it should be on Tempest, not on Catalyst, beside that it's not "reactive" gameplay but "seeing into the future" thingie, very very very situational.
Endurance regeneration, another misplaced trait, though the only usable thing out of all you've mentioned.
Weakness a 50/50 condition that'll be useless most of the time.
All of what you have pointed will be great on PvE golem, in an actual combat you can forget about it that it'll be useful against anything with brain.

Hence why I said some of these things might need buffs to numbers. But there are still defensive tools in the kit, even they might need some buffs (which anet still has time to do, remember that this has been beta, not the final iteration).

I also forgot to mention that there is another trait which provides 10% damage reduction through aura application, but I guess this is once again "in the wrong trait line" for you.

I don't know why you consider all stuff aura related to need to get put on tempest. It is pretty obvious that anet considers auras to be a core elementalist element they want to improve in different ways for different elite specs. For this bruiser spec, it mostly gives benefits in giving additional personal defenses like stability, damage reduction and stats. On tempest, they are used as a group support tool.

But I kinda expected you to dismiss all this. You already formed your opinion of "catalyst adds no defense", even if it is easily shown that this is straight up lying.

[Jski.6180]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

• Strike damage reduction on earth hammer 3
• Condi damage reduction on water hammer 3
• Up to 20% bonus stats (including toughness/vitality/healing power)
• Stability on aura application
• Extra endurance regeneration
• Weakness application

But let me guess, you will just also dismiss all this stuff with "well yeah but it not good!".

Catalyst provides quite alot of defense mechanically. It might need some buffs to numbers here and there, but the statement that it "doesn't bring any defensive tools besides a pseudo aegis" is incredibly ignorant.

Sadly you cant have both the 20% effect and the stab auras.

Cata for being a bruizer class needs barrier a lot like weaver (oddly ppl though the weaver was going to be the bruizer class).

As for dps the big vs small size mobs dominates the class too much more then just cata maybe we should let cata orb speed and size of rotation become smaller or larger base off of point of duration. So the shoter the time left on the orb duration the wider and slower the speed. Maybe with a means to revires such as effect starting the orb far and slow but comes in close and speeds up.

[AshenOwl.2485]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

5% damage reductions = worthless in actual combat.
Bonus stats is a joke though, it may sounds great on paper for people like you, but in reality trying to keep them up won't be easy, only usable in PvE golem benchmarks. There's also difference between 20% from 10 and 1000.
Stability on Aura as usual in wrong trait line, it should be on Tempest, not on Catalyst, beside that it's not "reactive" gameplay but "seeing into the future" thingie, very very very situational.
Endurance regeneration, another misplaced trait, though the only usable thing out of all you've mentioned.
Weakness a 50/50 condition that'll be useless most of the time.
All of what you have pointed will be great on PvE golem, in an actual combat you can forget about it that it'll be useful against anything with brain.

I actually think Elemental Empowerment is one of the cooler parts of the Catalyst kit, though I agree that it's too difficult to keep up currently. I'd like to see more traits that help you stack or keep it, and maybe give it some synergy with the orb.

[Guybrush.4762]

Catalyst looks good on paper but... You just assumed you have full uptime on every possible buff and let me tell you : you don't!

 

A combat just started and Billy the catalyst could really use some stack of elemental empowerment right now. A few second passes and he finally have enough energy to use his F5. Congratulations Billy you have a static field on your toes and you could start your combo. A few more seconds and Billy have some juicy stack. Good job Billy, but don't rest just yet you still don't have max stack.

 

Oh no... In the meantime Billy was still a 11k hp low Armor class and now he is dead/the fight has moved to another location/there is a big aoe that pushed him out of his F5 field. Too bad Billy, but at least you have above average DPS on a static large golem.

 

Now, I overdramatize for comedic effect and a beta is a beta but you get my point. I would replace the hammer 3 skills with the utility skills, replace the F5 field with the rotation orb from hammer 3, and replace the utility skills with the F5 fields and mark them as "wells" for good mesure. Adjust a few number, rethink some of the traits and ditch the current energy system and replace it with something more straightforward to keep track of and acquire. And... That is probably more promising.

Edited October 17, 2021 by Guybrush.4762

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Guybrush.4762 said:

Catalyst looks good on paper but... You just assumed you have full uptime on every possible buff and let me tell you : you don't!

 

A combat just started and Billy the catalyst could really use some stack of elemental empowerment right now. A few second passes and he finally have enough energy to use his F5. Congratulations Billy you have a static field on your toes and you could start your combo. A few more seconds and Billy have some juicy stack. Good job Billy, but don't rest just yet you still don't have max stack.

 

Oh no... In the meantime Billy was still a 11k hp low Armor class and now he is dead/the fight has moved to another location/there is a big aoe that pushed him out of his F5 field. Too bad Billy, but at least you have above average DPS on a static large golem.

 

Now, I overdramatize for comedic effect and a beta is a beta but you get my point. I would replace the hammer 3 skills with the utility skills, replace the F5 field with the rotation orb from hammer 3, and replace the utility skills with the F5 fields and mark them as "wells" for good mesure. Adjust a few number, rethink some of the traits and ditch the current energy system and replace it with something more straightforward to keep track of and acquire. And... That is probably more promising.

It seems you are generally assuming a bruiser to always walk around in zerker gear, too.

It is a bruiser spec. Anet most likely wants you to go for... you know.... bruiser gear. Stuff which gives you more health and toughness, for example. So the argument of being "11k health with lowest armor" just applies if you strictly keep playing the class as a dps.

I know, people hate to give up damage and so on. But I think Anet actually wants you to use other gear sets than zerker from time to time.

[Bleikopf.2491]

Cata has many problems, some of them are numbers problems and some of them are design problems.

If we want to follow the idea of "a bruiser who stays in the fight and gets rewarded for it", that's fine.
The reward is already set up (Elemental Empowerment) but currently it's a bit boring and too difficult to upkeep. If the idea is to reward someone for staying long in a fight, the reward should also stay. Windows of 'being strong' lends itself more to builds with burst potential (Fresh Air Weaver).
The other side is the tools we are given. Elementalist has the lowest health pool and the worst amor class. That's something that cannot be denied. So far, sustain and active defenses have proven to be the name of the game if we want to stay in a fight, and it makes even more sense for a bruiser Ele - The more we invest into defensive stats, the worse our offense becomes. And we want a brusier, not a bunker who stays in the fight infinitely long and can't hurt a fly. The nature of Elemental Empowerement being %-based makes stat selection even more important. What I'm expecting from a bruiser Ele is therefore someone with enough sustain and active defenses on top of some investment into defensive stats.
Active and passive defenses I'll come back to later.

I generally disagree with the notion that Auras are for some reason a Tempest thing. Auras have always been a sub-mechanic for Ele. Tempest's mechanic are overloads, not Auras and the fact that people think Auras first when thinking of Tempest just speaks to how underdesigned the spec is that they just slapped some Auras on it and called it a day. I'm glad to see more Auras in different Elite-Specs with a twist this time around. Stability application on Auras is a good start for that.
But this goes directly over to how there's a profound lack in Auras for Cata. You can substitute that with the Elemental Epitome trait, which is really fun - except that Cata Hammer can barely combo with itself, either. The only combo fields available are through F5, which is a complete mess. I'm amazed that Anet managed to fail so massively two times in a row, that it looks deliberate. If you want Cata to be another respectable Aura spec, make Auras accessible. Hammer, the spec-weapon, has barely access to Auras. WTF.

Back to active and passive defenses:

6 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

• Strike damage reduction on earth hammer 3
• Condi damage reduction on water hammer 3
• Up to 20% bonus stats (including toughness/vitality/healing power)
• Stability on aura application
• Extra endurance regeneration
• Weakness application

Hammer 3 has issues: The uptime is too low, Grand Finale is underwhelming and the condi and strike damage reduction is not enough. -5% is not a lot, especially considering that those will be multiplicative.
The bonus stats I already talked about - hard to keep up, not realistic for fights the way it is handled atm. This might hopefully change.
Auras I already talked about. Where are the auras on Hammer?
Endurance regeneration - I assume you mean Invigorating Air. Generally a nice package, but the cast time needs to go and Augments need a rework any way.
I don't remember which part of the kit applied weakness.

One thing that I noticed is that a lot of stuff has been outsourced to non-buffs. Protection, Regeneration and Vigor are buffs I've been missing on Cata. What about Resolution or Resistance? Some of those buffs being locked behind F5 is terrible, because F5 is terrible. Even if we assume that we have access to Protection and Resolution, which is pretty good combined with the -5% from Hammer 3, we're still lacking in sustain to recover. I really hope that I missed something Hammer, because I counted one heal skill (apart from the usual Healing Skill on 5). It is also our only Leap-Finisher and heals for each target struck. So if we're not striking any target, we're just missing out on our only sustain? If the enemy dodges our only heal skill, we're cut off from sustain? I have to misunderstand something here, because that's awful.

Active defenses are mostly missing as well. We got one hard CC, and it's not even delivered by our hammer. Talk about flavour fail. Having a block is actually a really nice change. Just wish we had more than that on our weapon. The Utility block seems ok if augment gets reworked. Would have liked some evade frames and a blind as well, though.

I think I'm done with my 'rant' at this point. Cata has many small issues, some huge issues and it's resulting in a giant mess. At the point it was in the beta, Dagger/Dagger did everything better than a Hammer if you wanted to play a bruiser. Augments and F5 need a rework, then we can see if huge problems have been addressed. Hammer needs a lot of work to be the designated weapon for the E-Spec.

[Kodama.6453]

15 minutes ago, Bleikopf.2491 said:

I don't remember which part of the kit applied weakness.

Not directly, but elementalist got access to a poison combo field with earth jade sphere and can use it to apply weakness through combos.

[Infusion.7149]

11 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Catalyst has a duration based block on a utility skill (fortified earth, 3 seconds).

Besides this, it also provides many other defensive tools.

None of which are better than auramancer tempest in largescale / parties or even weaver for smallscale

-5% incoming damage reduction on rocky loop/icy coil requires insane timing and trades off the damage obtainable from Grand Finale as well.

That 20% stat bonus you claim is a pipe dream, since it is only 10% stat bonus at most unless you trait elemental empowerment with Empowered Empowerment and reach max stacks (10 stacks). Empowered Empowerment competes with stability on auras in grandmaster tier by the way.

[Ceryxobitus.3012]

On 10/17/2021 at 9:31 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

Not directly, but elementalist got access to a poison combo field with earth jade sphere and can use it to apply weakness through combos.

Arcane trait line. Arcane Precision, 33% chance to apply weakness on critical hit

[Kodama.6453]

4 minutes ago, Ceryxobitus.3012 said:

Arcane trait line. Arcane Precision, 33% chance to apply weakness on critical hit

The context of the discussion you replied to was that I was listing defensive features provided by catalyst.

I didn't say that elementalist couldn't apply weakness on enemies before, the point was that catalyst adds another way to apply weakness as a defensive condition, besides the other defensive options it adds (like blocks, heals, etc.).

Edited October 28, 2021 by Kodama.6453