Untamed Needs to be HEAVILY Reworked

[chemiclord.3978]

On 10/31/2021 at 4:19 PM, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Every class believes their class is hated by ANet. You can go to any sub forum and find that.

It kinda reminds of sports leagues like the NFL, where if you were to believe major fan boards, there is an active conspiracy to screw at least 32 teams in the league.

[Fueki.4753]

9 hours ago, Raizel.1839 said:

You assume the use in PvP. 

But for PvE, he can be protected by allies.

That's assuming you have allies in every part of PvE, which would be a really rare case.

And I was thinking about PvE, especially more modern story encounters, not about PvP.

If a specialization needs others to baby-sit it, that should be quite the warning sign that there's a fundamental issue.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

16 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Catalyst is a true tragedy, it doesnt function in any enviroment and was proved to do so, and the only one in need of a entire overhaul realistically

 

14 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

I know thats right, both hammer specs are in the dumpster. I was so upset over how bad Cata was I was like at least my ranger will be decent...boy was I wrong. I have already stated my peace on what would make untamed better to play, so I will leave it at that. As for cata toss it in the wastebin and startover a fragile bruiser with 💩mobility. Trash that dang hammer its a joke as a main weapon leaves the cata a sitting duck.

I enjoyed the Catalyst. If you lean into the self buffs it gets, it can achieve some pretty ridiculous stats so not at all fragile, yet it also deals good damage. There's so much synergy between the traits in Ele that you have to look at it a bit harder I think. I enjoyed this.

[Xanadrine.4352]

Like i said unleashed should be the elite trait and ability not tied to a hammer. Just scrap the whole thing and make unleashed a cooldown that empowers both ranger and pet at the same time no matter what weapon you have on. It could last 15 seconds with a 30 second cool down or something. Enough to time a burst or cc chain. That means you hit the button you go into unleashed mode, there is no swapping back and forth both the ranger and the pet empower at the same time, and no matter what weapon you have equipped it can be unleashed also. So for hammer swap on unleased it becomes serious cc and pressure, but if you have greatsword it becomes damage, other weapons can be unleashed to deliver boons buffs and shields and corruption removal plus some damage or mobility. But this swap back and forth constantly losing buffs and power to put them on a pet then back onto you is not going to play out that good. The spec is hamstrung this way. Much better to be able to activate it on both. And the fact that hammer should not be the go to weapon except when you need cc and pressure.

 

Im just going to say it, if they make this like Beastial wrath it would be amazing, the even better part is the weapons would also be empowered with different abilities. That would make ranger amazing and diverse.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Zuldari.3940

[Gorem.8104]

Yeah, hoping that Untamed is actually NOTHING like the beta tests are like. Because it is easily, EASILLY the worst E-spec out of all 9, because no one will ever play this spec unless they want to nerf themselves. 

 

Its worse at DPS then Soulbeast, its worse at CC compared to Druid, can't support like Druid or even Soulbeast can, has less survivability then both other elite specs. Just giving flat vitality is nothing the elite has too long of a CD to be used like Dolyak stance can be used or Druids normal survivability and you want to force hammer which makes the elite worse in every way. All the cantrips suck, like they somehow forgot that we'd have 0 cleanse options but then just give us a cleanse that makes us have max stack vuln on us. Druid can remove every single condition on them on every transform, this class? 10 seconds to remove 1. There's a reason I run cleanse on weapon swap. 

 

So its worse at everything compared to what we already have, and even when downed worse then all other Ranger specs as the pet does not use abilities when you are downed, meaning it won't CC mobs/players or damage them at all. Untamed as it currently is is a noob trap, if you play it, you are saying you want to play a nerfed version of Ranger that is a jack of nothing. So hopefully they massively rework it, all weapons need new abilities, even if its just changing the auto attack, and pet families should have different abilities, ranged pets find that being untamed is useless. 

[Puck.3697]

23 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

I enjoyed the Catalyst. If you lean into the self buffs it gets, it can achieve some pretty ridiculous stats so not at all fragile, yet it also deals good damage. There's so much synergy between the traits in Ele that you have to look at it a bit harder I think. I enjoyed this.

??.

its litterally outclassed in every section of the game with a F5 thats Worthless in a General fight as it Conflicts with the entire design of the Specc?. Even this games largest fan Mighty Teapot who has actively fought against People hating on Speccs over these betas states this Specc needs to be Reworked. lol

17 hours ago, Zuldari.3940 said:

Like i said unleashed should be the elite trait and ability not tied to a hammer. Just scrap the whole thing and make unleashed a cooldown that empowers both ranger and pet at the same time no matter what weapon you have on. It could last 15 seconds with a 30 second cool down or something. Enough to time a burst or cc chain. That means you hit the button you go into unleashed mode, there is no swapping back and forth both the ranger and the pet empower at the same time, and no matter what weapon you have

while im down with the idea of giving every Weapon a Unleashed.

Do not make our next Mechanic a second Sick'em or Strength of the Pack. we already have buffs which buff Both the player and the pet.. we dont need a 3rd buff as a Mechanic. its important that Unleashed is a mechanic. and Not a Buff on a CD.

the fix we will likely get (if any) will be they'll make Hammer the best weapon for Ranger, simply because its the fatest fix. either this or they'll turn F5 to be like Druids F5.. its just a Overlay of whatever weapon ur wielding (imho is the best fast fix to this)

Edited November 3, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

24 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

??.

its litterally outclassed in every section of the game with a F5 thats Worthless in a General fight as it Conflicts with the entire design of the Specc?. Even this games largest fan Mighty Teapot who has actively fought against People hating on Speccs over these betas states this Specc needs to be Reworked. lol

Yeah, the F5 needs some work, but when you have a spec that can easily self stack buffs for 3300 power, 1800 condi damage, 80% crit chance, 260% crit damage, 3000 armor, 80% boon duration, 65% condi duration and 28k health, you are extremely tanky and can still dish out great damage. I would play it as is and never touch the F5 and still enjoy it.

[Lazze.9870]

5 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

All the cantrips suck

 

Port is good (saves the spec in PvP), elite isn't too bad. Heal sucks, the rest are.. meh, niche at best. Cleansing or port should be a stunbreak.

 

But aside from getting a port, I'd rather have the hammer spec get some good concentration or well skills and do the full warden type spec.. not this.

[jaif.3518]

8 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

Yeah, the F5 needs some work, but when you have a spec that can easily self stack buffs for 3300 power, 1800 condi damage, 80% crit chance, 260% crit damage, 3000 armor, 80% boon duration, 65% condi duration and 28k health, you are extremely tanky and can still dish out great damage. I would play it as is and never touch the F5 and still enjoy it.

 

You say "easily", but don't you have to continuously disable opponents to achieve this, in which case some of your swings aren't doing damage?  I'm not a big PvE fan, so maybe this is practical in something like fractals (I wouldn't know), but I don't see how this would happen in WvW or PvP or most of story/open world mode.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

1 hour ago, jaif.3518 said:

 

You say "easily", but don't you have to continuously disable opponents to achieve this, in which case some of your swings aren't doing damage?  I'm not a big PvE fan, so maybe this is practical in something like fractals (I wouldn't know), but I don't see how this would happen in WvW or PvP or most of story/open world mode.

Disable or immobilise. Earth does immob, Arcane does immob when attuned to earth, Glyph of Elementals has two disables and an immob depending on what attunement you cast it in. Conjure Hammer has 3. Cata Hammer has two disables and an immob. Lightning Rod deals damage on disable. In PvE a lot of the disable skills still deal damage too. It would work in WvW blobs because it has so many sources of immob/disable and the stacks last a long time, but I would change a couple of traits around. In Story/OW you can run literally anything. Something like this needs lots of mobs.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

[Levetty.1279]

Getting pretty tired of elementalists trying to derail threads on other professions boards trying to claim their spec is the only one that needs work. You have your own forum go their and cry about the spec, their are others that need much more work.

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Getting pretty tired of elementalists trying to derail threads on other professions boards trying to claim their spec is the only one that needs work. You have your own forum go their and cry about the spec, their are others that need much more work.

Not a Elementalist main.. i main Ranger Lmfao. the reason people keep bringing up catalyst is because misinformation keeps getting used with people trying to say "WORST ESPECC OF ALL 9". on proffessions that really arent. the issue is. People honestly thought a pet specc would be competitive. which is rather funny to begin with in all honesty. its a RP Specc. it'll never be anything more.

Rangers asked for a Pet Spec.. everyone stated it'd be terrible. its turned out to be terrible, Now its a problem.

 

14 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

I would play it as is and never touch the F5 and still enjoy it.

Isnt that litterally just playing core ranger? Lol... like wtf are u even meaning here.

19 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

ts worse at DPS then Soulbeast, its worse at CC compared to Druid, can't support like Druid or even Soulbeast can

we can always hope Anet reliese this.. and Work on Druid and Soulbeast instead of Untamed.. and just leave it as a Dead specc.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

...Isnt that litterally just playing core ranger? Lol... like wtf are u even meaning here...

I was talking about the F5 on Catalyst.

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

I was talking about the F5 on Catalyst.

oh so u wanna play core Ele? 😛

Edited November 4, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[jaif.3518]

On 10/30/2021 at 5:11 AM, RoastedWalnuts.4618 said:

The Idea and theme around the class is really cool and interesting to finally have a true "Beast Master" kind of class but the execution is just not there

I wanted to touch on this piece of the original post.

I don't agree - the idea and theme is simply "more core than core", and I think that's weak, personally.  Pets were the main class mechanic of core ranger...so now it's pets and buff?  That's hardly interesting to me.

I liked the underlying theme to the other classes, but untamed (and catalyst) just left me cold.

(ps not a "QQ" post; 7 out of 9 ain't bad, as the song goes <g> )

[Puck.3697]

3 minutes ago, jaif.3518 said:

I wanted to touch on this piece of the original post.

I don't agree - the idea and theme is simply "more core than core", and I think that's weak, personally.  Pets were the main class mechanic of core ranger...so now it's pets and buff?  That's hardly interesting to me.

I liked the underlying theme to the other classes, but untamed (and catalyst) just left me cold.

(ps not a "QQ" post; 7 out of 9 ain't bad, as the song goes <g> )

yeah, people will justify "loving the theme" to keep to the outcry many have around Rangers needing more "pet Speccs". but fail to reliese this is effectively core Rangers niche and now we're just gettign core replaced.

Im guessing people thought it being a "new Elite" thought it would mean they'd have to make Pet speccs great.. little did they know. Anet are fine to launch a RP Specc lol.

[Substance E.4852]

21 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Yeah, hoping that Untamed is actually NOTHING like the beta tests are like. Because it is easily, EASILLY the worst E-spec out of all 9, because no one will ever play this spec unless they want to nerf themselves.

Calling it right now and saying that what we saw will largely be what ships with some minor tweaks to numbers and possibly some way to call back the pet when it's unleashed

The F5 cooldown will still remain because Anet has some unhealthy fixation on forcing ranger specs to bounce in and out of "special mode" every 10-15 seconds

[Puck.3697]

24 minutes ago, Substance E.4852 said:

Calling it right now and saying that what we saw will largely be what ships with some minor tweaks to numbers and possibly some way to call back the pet when it's unleashed

The F5 cooldown will still remain because Anet has some unhealthy fixation on forcing ranger specs to bounce in and out of "special mode" every 10-15 seconds

tbh i dont mind the mode.

Just remove the CD on the switch. The Joint Cooldowns and make it accessible with more then just hammer.. even if it does remain exactly the same.

[Gorem.8104]

6 hours ago, Substance E.4852 said:

Calling it right now and saying that what we saw will largely be what ships with some minor tweaks to numbers and possibly some way to call back the pet when it's unleashed

The F5 cooldown will still remain because Anet has some unhealthy fixation on forcing ranger specs to bounce in and out of "special mode" every 10-15 seconds

That and giving us a green glow which vastly effects how we dress ourselves. Though this time they went overboard and just decided all Untamed will look the same no matter what we wear. At least you can still see our bodies when merged. But yeah, There is not enough time to do the work required to fix the broken mechanics of multiple classes, like I can see Bladesworn for example getting numbers tweaked which is literally all they have atm as playing the spec sucks But the sheer over tuned numbers it has makes it strong. 

It will be rather disappointing to see Untamed not be changed by EoD release and possibly for a long time after, I mean only recently did Scrapper get their buff that makes the class extremely good for group play. Took them years. 

Will it be years before we see our first Untamed played? If nothing is changed, then yes. I just don't see why someone would choose this boring basically core spec but worse spec. 

22 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Port is good (saves the spec in PvP), elite isn't too bad. Heal sucks, the rest are.. meh, niche at best. Cleansing or port should be a stunbreak.

 

But aside from getting a port, I'd rather have the hammer spec get some good concentration or well skills and do the full warden type spec.. not this.

Yeah, honestly I say they are all bad because of simple reasons like that. Hammer itself should have the port on it. Would we really go from a two hander that has dps options, defence options, and an escape/charge AND cc to something that only has dps options, some cc... and is slower?.... I rolled an Engie after this beta, leveled it to 80 and honestly the Engie hammer with Scrapper is such a fun spec to play, I am having more fun playing this then I had trying out untamed By Far. And soon it will have a pet that can tank, in a spec that can heal and provide 25 might stacks as well as alacrity and infinite vigor amongst many other boons. Or play untamed and be a worse then core spec with a pet that is hardly buffed at all by the spec with a slow hammer that dies faster then all 3 other specs the Ranger has. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Gorem.8104

[Lazze.9870]

2 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Or play untamed and be a worse then core spec with a pet that is hardly buffed at all by the spec with a slow hammer that dies faster then all 3 other specs the Ranger has. 

 

Well, the thing is, the best build you can play with Untamed in PvP is GS/LB.. again.

It's pretty good at running a Remorseless burst build, but it is carried by the cantrip port. Some of the pet unleashed utilities add some quality of life as well and the interrupt traits has good synergy with the setup, but that's about it. It's good for that purpose, but that's hardly how Anet imagined it to be played.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[Nephalem.8921]

On 10/31/2021 at 7:28 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

For the DPS, it needs to stand still and charge for multiple seconds. With the AoE and CC spam direction the game is going, this stationary channel is suicidal mechanic. And than you have to hope that your enemy also stands still, because even as little as strafing two steps causes enemies to evade the attack.

Just because it does damage on unreactive, stationary golems, doesn't mean it's actually viable in realistic situation.

The "but big damage numbers" argument is pointless, if the dragon can't reliably be triggered.

Maybe its just you? You have blinks and aegis while charging. there is an almost unkillable open world bs build that solo'd some harder open world bosses. 90%+ dmg coming from 1 hit means you can get away with 0critchance + intelligence sigil. it is the tankiest power builds in the game. better at it than reaper while doing ridiculous dmg.

But maybe you are a bit biased? crying about warrior whenever possible. also calling sc builds cookie cutter builds which should disqualify you from every pve discussion.

Story bosses are so easy you could be stationary for 10sec and it wouldnt matter...

Edited November 4, 2021 by Nephalem.8921

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Maybe its just you? You have blinks and aegis while charging. there is an almost unkillable open world bs build that solo'd some harder open world bosses. 90%+ dmg coming from 1 hit means you can get away with 0critchance + intelligence sigil. it is the tankiest power builds in the game. better at it than reaper while doing ridiculous dmg.

But maybe you are a bit biased? crying about warrior whenever possible. also calling sc builds cookie cutter builds which should disqualify you from every pve discussion.

Story bosses are so easy you could be stationary for 10sec and it wouldnt matter...

The only thing Bladesworn has going for it is overtuned numbers, if they are tuned down the spec is dead on arrival. Its not fun to play, if you even take a single step in any direction or are cc'd in any way all of your charge goes away, flow needs to stay between combat ect. Playing Bladesworn sucks. But this is a Ranger thread, Bladesworn has its own many many issues but Untamed is entirely unplayable as it stands. 

 

8 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Well, the thing is, the best build you can play with Untamed in PvP is GS/LB.. again.

It's pretty good at running a Remorseless burst build, but it is carried by the cantrip port. Some of the pet unleashed utilities add some quality of life as well and the interrupt traits has good synergy with the setup, but that's about it. It's good for that purpose, but that's hardly how Anet imagined it to be played.

 

But in that case, using GS/LB why would you not just stay SB and be better at everything haha. Almost makes it that Untamed would be better without the mechanic. Where's the "turn off green on myself and pet" button as all it does it make me take more damage or remove my pets abilities if its a ranged pet and if melee, the pet ai has them shadowstep, get one hit off, then go back to running and not melee'ing them like usual. As Smokescale is one of the only pets in the entire game that can actually hit their target and that is the sole reason most run it. 

[Substance E.4852]

12 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

That and giving us a green glow which vastly effects how we dress ourselves. Though this time they went overboard and just decided all Untamed will look the same no matter what we wear. At least you can still see our bodies when merged.

 

I will give them one point in that it only appears when you have your weapons drawn and disappears again when stowed

No idea if that was intended (like many Untamed features) but it was better than the always on soulbeast smog cloud