The Echovald Wilds GW2 Era

[Narcemus.1348]

I think what it comes down to is this is not the Cantha that Guild Wars Beyond players were lead to expect. The Guild Wars Beyond content was explained to be the bridge between what Guild Wars was and what Guild Wars 2 would be. This lead to the expectation that the Cantha that we would find is the isolationist xenophobic Cantha in the backstory. The reason that the Tengu risked coming to Tyria because things were so bad.

 

While all of the things we are seeing are mostly logical and acceptable, it invalidates almost a decade of theory crafting and speculation by the old player base. This deflates many's desire to continue to invest themselves in the future of the game. Because what it the point in speculating on the future of the game if the developers are just going to add a bunch of stuff that was not in any way hinted at, this making speculation about that future impossible. I know that I have gone from being someone who loved discussing this game's future potential to someone who just enjoys what comes out and then pretty well forgets it until the next release because it is truly impossible to try and predict the future.

[Fueki.4753]

25 minutes ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

I think what it comes down to is this is not the Cantha that Guild Wars Beyond players were lead to expect. The Guild Wars Beyond content was explained to be the bridge between what Guild Wars was and what Guild Wars 2 would be. This lead to the expectation that the Cantha that we would find is the isolationist xenophobic Cantha in the backstory. The reason that the Tengu risked coming to Tyria because things were so bad.

 

While all of the things we are seeing are mostly logical and acceptable, it invalidates almost a decade of theory crafting and speculation by the old player base. This deflates many's desire to continue to invest themselves in the future of the game. Because what it the point in speculating on the future of the game if the developers are just going to add a bunch of stuff that was not in any way hinted at, this making speculation about that future impossible. I know that I have gone from being someone who loved discussing this game's future potential to someone who just enjoys what comes out and then pretty well forgets it until the next release because it is truly impossible to try and predict the future.

To me it actually feels that Arenanet is seeing the lore speculations and actively hacks them to pieces.

I remember quite some speculation about how Lazarius came back and what his new goal was, but then Arenanet came out of nowhere went "lol nope, it was Balthazar all along", forcing Mursaat speculations to end abruptly.

Similarly, they took to the Cantha speculations and simply changed/invalidated everything that could be speculated about.

At this point, I wouldn't even be surprised, if the new Jade Brotherhood turned out to be White Mantle in disguise, using Jade Tech to recreate Mursaat technology.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Kayberz.5346]

12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

We had tengu living in a Shing Jea village, some tengu working as Shing Jea Monastery instructors, some tengu working alongside human bandits (both in the neo-Jade Brotherhood and the Speakers), and the "tengu village" was opened up to humans in very peaceful manners. The devs even said - though I don't think it got shown in the stream - that the tengu-only group that saved the tengu of Cantha by helping them hide in the Echovald Forest has opened its ranks to human recruits.

 

If that's not being openly friendly with the people who tried to kill them in genocide a century ago, I'm not sure what is. Because in both regions, we see tengu and humans mixing in most levels of society but with inverted numbers between maps.

They let it slip in the Echovald stream that the ministry of purity fell at some point and is presumably no longer around, they were the main driving force behind the attempted genocide of the tengu so with them no longer being in power it makes perfect sense that some tengu would begin living alongside canthan humans again 

Its not like every citizen of cantha was racist or xenophobic, it was a political force behind those policies, very reminiscent of the nazis and jews during WW2, there is probably a very sizable population of people in Cantha that didn't see the tengu as enemies at all but were merely bystanders in the political affairs of the empire they live in, very much like german citizens during ww2 that were forced to comply with anti-jewish policies by law or be subject to punishment themselves despite them sometimes being very close friends with jewish people because they lived together peacefully for years prior.

Any tengu that were extremely distrustful and weary of humans when the ministry of purity attempted to wipe them out were very likely the ones that left and created the dominion of winds, which is obvious because we hear from the tengu we meet in IBS that anti-human rhetoric is common in the dominion with them having "boogeyman-esque" conceptions of humans and other races in general.

The large tengu population in the Echovald forest would be the tengu that did not want to go with the others in the dominion, likely still feeling Cantha is their home. They probably don't hold any ill will towards humans/ canthans specifically but rather distrust the government that rules them.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

13 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

OK.  So how did the Empire manage to vanquish the Kurzicks?  They seem completely gone as a separate people but the Tengu who weren't native to Echovald were able to hide in the Kurzicks homeland....

The Tengu went to the Echovald to HIDE. The Kurzicks actively made themselves public to fight back against the Empire. Its much easier to die when you aren't trying to hide from whats trying to kill you. And, as other posters have mentioned, we know Kurzick descendants still survive into the current day.

5 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

While all of the things we are seeing are mostly logical and acceptable, it invalidates almost a decade of theory crafting and speculation by the old player base. This deflates many's desire to continue to invest themselves in the future of the game. Because what it the point in speculating on the future of the game if the developers are just going to add a bunch of stuff that was not in any way hinted at, this making speculation about that future impossible. I know that I have gone from being someone who loved discussing this game's future potential to someone who just enjoys what comes out and then pretty well forgets it until the next release because it is truly impossible to try and predict the future.

The problem with this is that most player "speculation" isn't actually speculation. Its just people sitting around saying that X is exactly like it was when we last saw it, despite literal centuries having passed. That isn't speculation, that's just stagnation.

If Cantha was 100% exactly like Winds of Change had implied it would not only be unrealistic, but it would also mean players would have never had to speculate about anything, but we had been point blank told previously what it was going to be like/what was going to happen.

THAT would deflate my desire to remain invested in the game, because it means nothing is worth talking about or speculating on since everything would just be shoved in our faces to the point were such a thing is unnecessary.

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Similarly, they took to the Cantha speculations and simply changed/invalidated everything that could be speculated about.

Changing/invalidating everything that could be speculated about would require a lot more then what they did. It would require

• Making Cantha no longer isolationist, and saying they were trading with other people elsewhere the whole time so that whole isolationist mindset doesn't exist/never existed
• The Kurzicks/Luxons being in the Echovald/Jade Sea exactly like they were 200+ years ago, despite past canon saying they were reabsorbed into the Empire.
• The Tengu are welcomed with open arms everywhere ,as if the Ministry of Purity's campaigns didn't almost wipe them out and drive them off the continent.

As is they have still been isolationist for ages, the Kurzicks and Luxons are still gone, and the Tengu are still not trusted/welcome into most of Canthan society, and are themselves distrustful of humanity after what humanity tried to do to them.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Ulysses.2058]

15 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

I think what it comes down to is this is not the Cantha that Guild Wars Beyond players were lead to expect. The Guild Wars Beyond content was explained to be the bridge between what Guild Wars was and what Guild Wars 2 would be. This lead to the expectation that the Cantha that we would find is the isolationist xenophobic Cantha in the backstory. The reason that the Tengu risked coming to Tyria because things were so bad.

 

While all of the things we are seeing are mostly logical and acceptable, it invalidates almost a decade of theory crafting and speculation by the old player base. This deflates many's desire to continue to invest themselves in the future of the game. Because what it the point in speculating on the future of the game if the developers are just going to add a bunch of stuff that was not in any way hinted at, this making speculation about that future impossible. I know that I have gone from being someone who loved discussing this game's future potential to someone who just enjoys what comes out and then pretty well forgets it until the next release because it is truly impossible to try and predict the future.

Pretty much this. Logical events for a 250 years time lapse? Yes. Also, quite the opposite of what players involved in lore knew and were expecting/speculating about? True as well.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

17 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

I think what it comes down to is this is not the Cantha that Guild Wars Beyond players were lead to expect. The Guild Wars Beyond content was explained to be the bridge between what Guild Wars was and what Guild Wars 2 would be. This lead to the expectation that the Cantha that we would find is the isolationist xenophobic Cantha in the backstory. The reason that the Tengu risked coming to Tyria because things were so bad.

Pretty much this. I don't think anyone at all ever expected "GW1 Cantha but better graphics", nor did they expect "just right after The Movement of the World", but most people upset were expecting something close to that situation.

And that expectation is not without reason. Why?

Because Kryta. Because Ascalon. because Hoelbrak and Rata Sum and The Grove and Orr - these were all the same as we were expected to see with the end of Eye of the North, War in Kryta, and The Movement of the World. There was some differences, of course, but you can see a very clean and clear continuation. The uptime of activity between GW1 and GW2 is very small, and all of it detailed in The Movement of the World.

Even Elona has this. You can see a very recognizable similarity between The Movement of the World's description of Elona and Elona in GW2. It's not the same, 100 years had passed, but that 100 years passing was very recognizable.

100 years also passed for Cantha, but Cantha as seen in EoD and Cantha as seen in The Movement of the World and Winds of Change are total opposites. And this clashes with all our built up expectations both through the proclaimed "lead-ins for where Cantha will be in GW2" as well as how every other nation and group described in The Movement or Beyond content got.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Legion.4198]

Honestly, I'm quite happy that they have not gone with yet another tyrannical empire angle. We have already done one with the totalitarian nightmare that was Elona. No Canthan emperor or government could ever hope to top Palawa Joko. We even became the head of the rebellion in that one. We've also faced another  dictatorship in Bangar's Dominion, a Charr supremacist and world-conquering one with delusions of taming an Eldar Dragon. A tyrannical Cantha would have been the third time that we do the same thing. At most, I would have liked an "enemy mine" storyline with Cantha still being xenophobic but being forced to accept our help and open up (maybe needing to purge the Ministry of Purity) to deal with the last dragon. 

 

I've always thought that the possibility of Cantha being no longer isolationist by Gw2 was always in the cards, particularly following Zaithan's rise a 100 years ago. Movement of the world mentions sporadic, Canthan sailors washing ashore on the southern coast of the Maguuma Jungles which raises the question of why Canthan sailors were venturing so far up north. Arguably, it is the Tyrian continent that one that has been isolated due Zaithan's rise for the last 100 years, ending any need to enforce isolationism. Cantha might have even preserved its racism but switched gears and become supremacist and colonialist instead with a "mission to civilize" mindset. 

 

On the other hand, I was curious if Cantha could have "reverse-engineering" the secrets of the Jade Wind and the Shiro'ken. Shiro's corpse was preserved and it would have given an opportunity to Cantha's scholars to attempt to unlock its secrets. It seems like this has been the case with Cantha's mastery over Jade-tech.

[Debesyla.7102]

I still believe that there is more to be seen. It's not like Anet already spoiled us the whole story, after all. I believe we all should first see the whole thing before claiming it's wrong... 😮

[Kayberz.5346]

Yeah, one thing ive noticed in this community is a lot of people have their own head cannon of what they think (want) will happen, and if anything contradicts the fanfiction in their head they automatically resort to calling it bad and even going as far as to accuse the devs of getting the lore "wrong".

 

 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

17 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The Tengu went to the Echovald to HIDE. The Kurzicks actively made themselves public to fight back against the Empire. Its much easier to die when you aren't trying to hide from whats trying to kill you.

Still doesn't invalidate my last comment.  I do not find it reasonable that at least some of the Kurzicks wouldn't choose to and be able to successfully hide in the Echovald in order to preserve their culture but the Tengu, who don't know the land, would be able to pull that off. 

17 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

And, as other posters have mentioned, we know Kurzick descendants still survive into the current day.

Here is the wording I used:

On 11/14/2021 at 11:44 PM, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

OK.  So how did the Empire manage to vanquish the Kurzicks?  They seem completely gone as a separate people but the Tengu who weren't native to Echovald were able to hide in the Kurzicks homeland....

I am well aware that the Kurzicks, and the Luxons, weren't literally genocide but instead were subjugated.

 

[Narcemus.1348]

17 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The problem with this is that most player "speculation" isn't actually speculation. Its just people sitting around saying that X is exactly like it was when we last saw it, despite literal centuries having passed. That isn't speculation, that's just stagnation.

If Cantha was 100% exactly like Winds of Change had implied it would not only be unrealistic, but it would also mean players would have never had to speculate about anything, but we had been point blank told previously what it was going to be like/what was going to happen.

THAT would deflate my desire to remain invested in the game, because it means nothing is worth talking about or speculating on since everything would just be shoved in our faces to the point were such a thing is unnecessary.

 

I don't believe that anyone expected Cantha to be a 100% carbon copy of Winds of Change, nor do I believe that the speculation about the continent was unwarranted. We were told that the nation was isolationist even near the very beginning of Guild Wars 2 with only minor hints at anything else.  Sometimes a Canthan ship washes up with bodies, but this could be nothing more than attempts at trade, which is still allowed as a necessity in many isolationist nations or exiles. This coupled with the xenophobic ministry we saw take the hearts of the people (at large, not all people obviously) leads one to expect a very unwelcoming continent. Obviously we know that some resisted the actions of the ministry, but we saw them having very little impact on the people that they preached to which gave the impression that those speaking out against the Ministry of Purity would be a minority. 

 

Now, do I think that these changes are bad? Not necessarily. I honestly felt like ArenaNet built themselves into a corner by making Cantha xenophobic while creating a game where the player character is able to be one of many races. Only a very small portion of the playerbase wouldn't be distrusted or disliked in that expected world. But it is still a tough pill to swallow when you are shown a portion of the roadmap which was leading one direction only to see the final destination being something vastly different than we were lead to believe. I personally will not make a final decision until I see the full product and how it all ties together, but if someone had speculated 10 years ago that Cantha would be a welcoming Magitech filled empire they would have been ran off because there was no reason to believe that this would even be possible.

[Kayberz.5346]

1 hour ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

 

I don't believe that anyone expected Cantha to be a 100% carbon copy of Winds of Change, nor do I believe that the speculation about the continent was unwarranted. We were told that the nation was isolationist even near the very beginning of Guild Wars 2 with only minor hints at anything else.  Sometimes a Canthan ship washes up with bodies, but this could be nothing more than attempts at trade, which is still allowed as a necessity in many isolationist nations or exiles. This coupled with the xenophobic ministry we saw take the hearts of the people (at large, not all people obviously) leads one to expect a very unwelcoming continent. Obviously we know that some resisted the actions of the ministry, but we saw them having very little impact on the people that they preached to which gave the impression that those speaking out against the Ministry of Purity would be a minority. 

 

Now, do I think that these changes are bad? Not necessarily. I honestly felt like ArenaNet built themselves into a corner by making Cantha xenophobic while creating a game where the player character is able to be one of many races. Only a very small portion of the playerbase wouldn't be distrusted or disliked in that expected world. But it is still a tough pill to swallow when you are shown a portion of the roadmap which was leading one direction only to see the final destination being something vastly different than we were lead to believe. I personally will not make a final decision until I see the full product and how it all ties together, but if someone had speculated 10 years ago that Cantha would be a welcoming Magitech filled empire they would have been ran off because there was no reason to believe that this would even be possible.

Why does everyone seem to assume that just because we as the commander are going to cantha that they are welcoming our presence with open arms?

 

We dont yet even know how or why we go to cantha in the first place, for all we know we might be illegal aliens in Cantha and that could play a major part in the story of EoD

 

The kaineng map could very well be us interacting with people in the city in secret while being hostile with the local authorities and the entire map is basically us dodging the empire as a fugitive or we possibly dont even enter kaineng until much later in the narrative potentially even being the final map we go to canonically BECAUSE  we aren't welcome 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[EdwinLi.1284]

55 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Why does everyone seem to assume that just because we as the commander are going to cantha that they are welcoming our presence with open arms?

 

We dont yet even know how or why we go to cantha in the first place, for all we know we might be illegal aliens in Cantha and that could play a major part in the story of EoD

 

The kaineng map could very well be us interacting with people in the city in secret while being hostile with the local authorities and the entire map is basically us dodging the empire as a fugitive or we possibly dont even enter kaineng until much later in the narrative potentially even being the final map we go to canonically BECAUSE  we aren't welcome 

Well some people speculate that the locations being show in the trailer's release order is going to be the order we go through Cantha story wise.

If this is true then our first stop will be Shing Jea Islands and for some reason during Shing Jea Island the commander and his/her allies has to go around Kaineng City into the Echovald Wilds next. This may mean Kaineng City maybe the last location we enter or atleast the next location after Echovald Wilds since the Commander may have to find a way to sneak into the City. 

If Kaineng City is not after Echovald Wilds then my best guess the Jade Sea is our next stop then we get to enter Kaineng City after that through some secret passage with the help of new allies made during the events of Shing Jea Island, Echovald Wilds, and the Jade Sea.

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Kayberz.5346]

Just now, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Well some people speculate that the locations being show in the trailer's release order is going to be the order we go through Cantha story wise.

If this is true then our first stop will be Shing Jea Islands and for some reason during Shing Jea Island the commander and his/her allies has to go around Kaineng City into the Echovald Wilds next. This may mean Kaineng City maybe the last location we enter or atleast the next location after Echovald Wilds since the Commander may have to find a way to sneak into the City. 

If Kaineng City is not after Echovald Wilds then my best guess the Jade Sea is our next stop then we get to enter Kaineng City through some secret passage with the help of new allies made during the events of Shing Jea Island, Echovald Wilds, and the Jade Sea.

 

I honestly do think this is the direction they are going with the story just from reading between the lines of what we have and haven't been shown so far

 

I remember during the shing jae stream that little girl asked us about us supposedly being able to kill people just by looking at them, indicating that the commander is known in cantha but as kind of a boogieman-like almost mythical figure

I could see the Canthan government viewing the commander as an evil threat to their empire there to conquer them before we can actually introduce ourselves properly 

[EdwinLi.1284]

1 hour ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

I honestly do think this is the direction they are going with the story just from reading between the lines of what we have and haven't been shown so far

 

I remember during the shing jae stream that little girl asked us about us supposedly being able to kill people just by looking at them, indicating that the commander is known in cantha but as kind of a boogieman-like almost mythical figure

I could see the Canthan government viewing the commander as an evil threat to their empire there to conquer them before we can actually introduce ourselves properly 

I think there maybe a few willing to become allies with the Commander. However, considering this maybe illegally enter Cantha scenario, the people looking to help the Commander maybe either seeking to use the Commander's strength to their own goals or see this as a chance to change Cantha again since some of the stories should atleast peak their interests about the potential of the Commander being their allies. The Commander does have a tendency to shift the position of power just by being involved in events after all and at this point, there are probably a lot of over exaggerated stories about the Commander both positive and negative.

While trading between countries does continue to happen, it does appear people only heard stories (though very exaggerated to be negative or positve) about the commander but lack of outside interaction has clouded their views about the Commander due to only hearing stories from other people. 

Speaking of which, this does give the developers a opportunity to show off how exaggerated stories being told about the Commander can be. There are probably books about the Commander at this point as well due to being years since the Zhaitan Campaign ended. Just hope a certain cultured charr has not being making some himself and selling them. Now we don't want that kind of content being traded to Cantha.

Edited November 16, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

3 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Well some people speculate that the locations being show in the trailer's release order is going to be the order we go through Cantha story wise.

If this is true then our first stop will be Shing Jea Islands and for some reason during Shing Jea Island the commander and his/her allies has to go around Kaineng City into the Echovald Wilds next. This may mean Kaineng City maybe the last location we enter or atleast the next location after Echovald Wilds since the Commander may have to find a way to sneak into the City. 

If Kaineng City is not after Echovald Wilds then my best guess the Jade Sea is our next stop then we get to enter Kaineng City after that through some secret passage with the help of new allies made during the events of Shing Jea Island, Echovald Wilds, and the Jade Sea.

What I find interesting is that, as far as we know, EoD will have 4 maps.

Assuming EoD actually does have us fight Bubbles, and end the last of the old Elder Dragons, and there isn't some big double bluff/rug pull regarding the name/tagline of the Xpack, and if Kaineng is the last map we go to in the expansion, that would mean Kaineng will be the dragon fight map ala Dragon's Stand/Dragonfall/Dragonstorm.

While Anet has pretty much removed all the large bodies of water they drew in when they made that world map in LWS2, it would be nice if they kept the partially flooded Kaineng they drew in. the presence of skiffs in the expansion would suggest they might. Bubbles water horror coming out of all the canals and such throughout Kaineng, and us having to traverse them to reach it along the coast would make for an interesting dynamic.

This would also fit with the three maps + a fight meta the other dragons got.

 

[EdwinLi.1284]

10 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

What I find interesting is that, as far as we know, EoD will have 4 maps.

Assuming EoD actually does have us fight Bubbles, and end the last of the old Elder Dragons, and there isn't some big double bluff/rug pull regarding the name/tagline of the Xpack, and if Kaineng is the last map we go to in the expansion, that would mean Kaineng will be the dragon fight map ala Dragon's Stand/Dragonfall/Dragonstorm.

While Anet has pretty much removed all the large bodies of water they drew in when they made that world map in LWS2, it would be nice if they kept the partially flooded Kaineng they drew in. the presence of skiffs in the expansion would suggest they might. Bubbles water horror coming out of all the canals and such throughout Kaineng, and us having to traverse them to reach it along the coast would make for an interesting dynamic.

This would also fit with the three maps + a fight meta the other dragons got.

 

could be but we can't dismiss the possibility they are saving certain areas of Kaineng City for Living World 6 Maps.

It may give them locations to show off post-EoD Cantha like they did with certain Maps in Elona after Path of Fire for Living World 4.

Edited November 17, 2021 by EdwinLi.1284

[Narcemus.1348]

20 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Why does everyone seem to assume that just because we as the commander are going to cantha that they are welcoming our presence with open arms?

 

We dont yet even know how or why we go to cantha in the first place, for all we know we might be illegal aliens in Cantha and that could play a major part in the story of EoD

 

The kaineng map could very well be us interacting with people in the city in secret while being hostile with the local authorities and the entire map is basically us dodging the empire as a fugitive or we possibly dont even enter kaineng until much later in the narrative potentially even being the final map we go to canonically BECAUSE  we aren't welcome 

 

You are right, we don't know for certain how we will be treated once we arrive in Cantha. The main reason I feel as though we are being invited openly is because of the media they have released about the region. Their article about the written language of Cantha wrote about welcoming and family and other positive things. And all of the streams seem to show us out in the open doing things and helping people with little to no animosity. In fact, the only distrust ever mentioned is from the Tengu!  But they have removed stuff specifically to keep the story a mystery. So while you are right and it could be a vastly different scenario than the one presented, I'm just going off of what I am able to see so far when I make such assumptions.

[Kayberz.5346]

2 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

 

You are right, we don't know for certain how we will be treated once we arrive in Cantha. The main reason I feel as though we are being invited openly is because of the media they have released about the region. Their article about the written language of Cantha wrote about welcoming and family and other positive things. And all of the streams seem to show us out in the open doing things and helping people with little to no animosity. In fact, the only distrust ever mentioned is from the Tengu!  But they have removed stuff specifically to keep the story a mystery. So while you are right and it could be a vastly different scenario than the one presented, I'm just going off of what I am able to see so far when I make such assumptions.

Well so far we have only seen us in locations that are away from the city, with Echovald already being explained as filled with people trying to get away from the city for numerous reasons and shing jae being an island away from the mainland that seems to have a very traditional  "old school" kind of vibe thats more laid back with tengu being welcome and them living alongside spirits and there so far doesn't seem to be a large presence of jade tech.

Notice there has been a very notable lack of any imperial guards/soldiers shown in any of the live streams, we have only been shown civilians and independent factions, we haven't seen a single actual Canthan Empire affiliated NPCs which is kind of suspicious because you would think they would be one of the first entities we encounter.

It seems to me that the direction they might be going with it is that the actual people of cantha whether that be civilians or other groups outside of the official government might be welcoming or at the very least not immediately hostile to the commander but that the actual ruling authority are potentially less welcoming.

Like the actual citizens are just kinda like "woah, cool foreigners, and its that dragon slayer guy, how exciting" whereas the authorities might see us as a threat and have orders to capture/kill us. 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Kayberz.5346

[Fueki.4753]

47 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Notice there has been a very notable lack of any imperial guards/soldiers shown in any of the live streams, we have only been shown civilians and independent factions, we haven't seen a single actual Canthan Empire affiliated NPCs which is kind of suspicious because you would think they would be one of the first entities we encounter.

I think the imperial entities have just been disabled to prevent any dialogue that might touch the main story, and thus preventing any further speculations (which Arenanet seems to always strive hard to shut down).

47 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

It seems to me that the direction they might be going with it is that the actual people of cantha whether that be civilians or other groups outside of the official government might be welcoming or at the very least not immediately hostile to the commander but that the actual ruling authority are potentially less welcoming.

Like the actual citizens are just kinda like "woah, cool foreigners, and its that dragon slayer guy, how exciting"

It could also be a case of "Random outsiders who can solve our problems for us? Let's play nice with them until they are done with it and hope they are gone soon after."

This kind of attitude would even fit with the Asian setting of Cantha, given the tendency of many Japanese people to like foreigners as short-term tourists (by bringing in money and having and positive economic effect on the community), but not as long-term residents (and taking living space and jobs that could go to Japanese people instead).

Edited November 17, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Kayberz.5346]

1 minute ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I think the imperial entities have just been disable to prevent any dialogue that might touch the main story, and thus preventing any further speculations (which Arenanet seems to always strives hard to shut down).

It could also be a case of "Random outsiders who can solve our problems for us? Let's play nice with them until they are done with it and hope they are gone soon after."

This kind of attitude would even fit with the Asian setting of Cantha, given the tendency of many Japanese people to like foreigners as short-term tourists (by bringing in money and having and positive economic effect on the community), but not as long-term residents (and taking living space and jobs that could go to Japanese people instead).

Well if they would need to hide imperial entities entirely because of spoilers that kinda makes the idea of them being hostile the most likely reason 

 

I would highly doubt every single imperial guard would have ambient dialogue filled with spoilers so removing them completely from the maps they have shown would seem unnecessary, they could just disable the spoiler ones and leave the rest

[Fueki.4753]

37 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

I would highly doubt every single imperial guard would have ambient dialogue filled with spoilers so removing them completely from the maps they have shown would seem unnecessary, they could just disable the spoiler ones and leave the rest

It's possible that the imperial entities all draw from the same pool of environmental dialogues.

If so, it may be easier to simply deactivate the entire group of NPCs instead of hand-picking and disabling individual dialogue options.

 

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

12 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

could be but we can't dismiss the possibility they are saving certain areas of Kaineng City for Living World 6 Maps.

It may give them locations to show off post-EoD Cantha like they did with certain Maps in Elona after Path of Fire for Living World 4.

Ohh sure. I would be somewhat surprised if we got all of either Kaineng, the Echovald, or the JAde Sea, in the EoD maps. From what they showed off in the livestream, theres seemingly still a good portion of the Echovald to the south the map might not cover, so I would suspect Kaineng and and the Jade Sea might be the same. I was just referring to the Kaineng map we get in EoD.

[Legion.4198]

8 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Notice there has been a very notable lack of any imperial guards/soldiers shown in any of the live streams, we have only been shown civilians and independent factions, we haven't seen a single actual Canthan Empire affiliated NPCs which is kind of suspicious because you would think they would be one of the first entities we encounter.

 

 

We have seen plenty of members of the "Ministry of Security". They look like they are some sort of police force.  It may be that Cantha has formally separated the old Imperial Guard into a police force (Ministry of Security), and a military one that have yet to see. If this is the case, this would reinforce the whole "Canthan modernity". 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 11/16/2021 at 4:57 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Pretty much this. I don't think anyone at all ever expected "GW1 Cantha but better graphics", nor did they expect "just right after The Movement of the World", but most people upset were expecting something close to that situation.

And that expectation is not without reason. Why?

Because Kryta. Because Ascalon. because Hoelbrak and Rata Sum and The Grove and Orr - these were all the same as we were expected to see with the end of Eye of the North, War in Kryta, and The Movement of the World. There was some differences, of course, but you can see a very clean and clear continuation. The uptime of activity between GW1 and GW2 is very small, and all of it detailed in The Movement of the World.

Even Elona has this. You can see a very recognizable similarity between The Movement of the World's description of Elona and Elona in GW2. It's not the same, 100 years had passed, but that 100 years passing was very recognizable.

100 years also passed for Cantha, but Cantha as seen in EoD and Cantha as seen in The Movement of the World and Winds of Change are total opposites. And this clashes with all our built up expectations both through the proclaimed "lead-ins for where Cantha will be in GW2" as well as how every other nation and group described in The Movement or Beyond content got.

I think there is a distinction there that the Movement of the World was an in-universe document at the Durmand Priory which was recent enough to have mentioned the Sylvari. So information on central Tyria - which has certainly changed a lot since Zhaitan's rise - is fairly up-to-date. Elonian information was fairly lacking, but the land route from Ebonhawke to Amnoon seems to have been intact until relatively recently, and at the very least they seemed to know that Joko was still in control.

 

Information on Cantha, on the other hand, seems to be a pretty solid "We have no frelling idea what's been happening there since Zhaitan rose, if it wasn't for the occasional dead sailor washing ashore it could have sunk beneath the waves for all we know". So it's not surprising that things have changed since the last the authors of the Movement had received from Cantha, around 1219AE. As long as the indications are there that the isolationist policies were a thing, I don't think it's exactly a betrayal of expectations that the status quo didn't hold for another hundred years.

On 11/17/2021 at 1:33 AM, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Speaking of which, this does give the developers a opportunity to show off how exaggerated stories being told about the Commander can be. There are probably books about the Commander at this point as well due to being years since the Zhaitan Campaign ended. Just hope a certain cultured charr has not being making some himself and selling them. Now we don't want that kind of content being traded to Cantha.

What, you're not looking forward to Snargle's interpretation of the true nature of the relationship between Champion and Prismatic Dragon? 😛