Harbinger in sPvP

[Morwath.9817]

So, whats the idea behind this spec now?

 

Before it had sustain, and now its pure glass, after healing mechanic was completly removed.

 

Mobility was reduced as well, both in terms of range (900->600) and cooldown on charge was increased.

 

Elixirs got buffed, but the question is: why would I pick them over: Consume Conditions/Spectral Walk/Flesh Wurm/certain Elite loved by everyone on those forums.

 

Damage could be "okay" (Dhuumfire+quickness+11111 spam), but....

...stacking condis takes time even with quickness, isn't super bursty and you lack sustain when counter pressured compared to Core Necro...

...burst compared to Reaper feels bad...

...no instant CC (fear) in Shroud every other Necro spec has access too...

...it doesn't feel like "high risk, high reward" spec as high risk is certainly there, but I don't see "high reward" you can see on old Necro specs.

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Morwath.9817

[Tescao.3042]

Perhaps the "high reward" ceiling will be reduced for the old Necro specs and this will not only be done with the Necro.

[Morwath.9817]

1 minute ago, DomHemingway.8436 said:

Perhaps the "high reward" ceiling will be reduced for the old Necro specs and this will not only be done with the Necro.

 

Oh... you can compare Harbinger to Revenant, who has similar mobility (better if team gives you targets 🙄), great both sustained damage and burst, who has multiple i-frames as well and his class mechanic doesn't reduce his health pool, but instead has access to two heals. You can compare to Holosmith, as Photonforge is similar to Harbringer "shroud", but much much better.

 

My whole point is, this specialization feels like downgrade in sPvP both to its older version and Core/Scrouge/Reaper. If they nerf "high reward" of all of them to Harbringer level, nobody will play Necros outside of maybe silver or lower gold probably 🙃.

[Tescao.3042]

14 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

 

Oh... you can compare Harbinger to Revenant, who has similar mobility (better if team gives you targets 🙄), great both sustained damage and burst, who has multiple i-frames as well and his class mechanic doesn't reduce his health pool, but instead has access to two heals. You can compare to Holosmith, as Photonforge is similar to Harbringer "shroud", but much much better.

 

My whole point is, this specialization feels like downgrade in sPvP both to its older version and Core/Scrouge/Reaper. If they nerf "high reward" of all of them to Harbringer level, nobody will play Necros outside of maybe silver or lower gold probably 🙃.

You can also compare Willbender to the Power Herald. I mean, if this is done, then not only with Necro.

Edited December 2, 2021 by DomHemingway.8436

[Morwath.9817]

2 minutes ago, DomHemingway.8436 said:

I mean, this will not only be done with Necro. You can also compare Willbender to the Power Herald.

Also, you need to remember, if you nerf core Necro (traitlines/weapons/utilities) then you make Harbinger even worse and it goes same for all other e-specs.

[Tescao.3042]

Just now, Morwath.9817 said:

Also, you need to remember, if you nerf core Necro (traitlines/weapons/utilities) then you make Harbinger even worse and it goes same for all other e-specs.

I mean, if this is done, then not only with Necro.

[Morwath.9817]

Just now, DomHemingway.8436 said:

I mean, if this is done, then not only with Necro.

I mean, if you nerf power Herald and power Renegade by touching core trait lines and weapons or lets say Shiro utilities, you nerf Vidicator at same time.

If you nerf Mirage by nerfing core weapons/traits/utilities you nerf Virtuso at same time.

If you nerf Holosmith by core weapons (shield)/traits/utilities you nerf Mechanist as well.

And so on...

[Tescao.3042]

11 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

I mean, if you nerf power Herald and power Renegade by touching core trait lines and weapons or lets say Shiro utilities, you nerf Vidicator at same time.

If you nerf Mirage by nerfing core weapons/traits/utilities you nerf Virtuso at same time.

If you nerf Holosmith by core weapons (shield)/traits/utilities you nerf Mechanist as well.

And so on...

Most likely it looks much more complicated. It's not just buff / nerf, it's modifiers, which will affect the whole picture.

Edited December 2, 2021 by DomHemingway.8436

[Spellhunter.9675]

I bet they've made changes to harbinger without any thoughts about PvP whatsoever. And we still have this situation where no new e-spec can compete with HoT/PoF specs.

 

[Tescao.3042]

23 minutes ago, Morwath.9817 said:

I mean, if you nerf power Herald and power Renegade by touching core trait lines and weapons or lets say Shiro utilities, you nerf Vidicator at same time.

If you nerf Mirage by nerfing core weapons/traits/utilities you nerf Virtuso at same time.

If you nerf Holosmith by core weapons (shield)/traits/utilities you nerf Mechanist as well.

And so on...

Here's one simple example, weakening the herald f2 from the Shiro stance won't affect the Vindicator, but will give Willbender more potential. I am not saying that this particular example is correct, this is just the first example that came to mind. There are a lot of such examples, one head cannot see all of them.

Edited December 2, 2021 by DomHemingway.8436

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, DomHemingway.8436 said:

Here's one simple example, weakening the herald f2 from the Shiro stance won't affect the Vindicator, but will give Willbender more potential. I am not saying that this particular example is correct, this is just the first example that came to mind. There are a lot of such examples, one head cannot see all of them.

True. Weakening something that's specific to a spec is bound to only affect the said spec.

On topic: The dev's choice of the things to tweak on harbinger were arguable. I'd say that the only proper thing they did was to remove the LF to health mechanism which was rewarding players that were avoiding blight on a spec that's supposed to capitalise on blight. It leave a harbinger with a lot of "cons" but not much "pros".

[Marxx.5021]

Balancing in PvP is also about population not just how good a class/spec performs. There are more necros in PvP than other classes. I think it is because it is easier to play with a big health pool instead reactive with blocks, evades and so on. In that logic it makes sense to add an underperforming spec for necro. Just to keep class diversity up.

[Spellhunter.9675]

26 minutes ago, Marxx.5021 said:

In that logic it makes sense to add an underperforming spec for necro. Just to keep class diversity up.

Having one more options noone gonna pick doesn't add any diversity. Diversity is when there are a lot of strong options.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Spellhunter.9675

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Imagine having to build a class to be squishy if you want to do damage.

[Flumek.9043]

6 hours ago, Marxx.5021 said:

Balancing in PvP is also about population not just how good a class/spec performs. There are more necros in PvP than other classes. I think it is because it is easier to play with a big health pool instead reactive with blocks, evades and so on. In that logic it makes sense to add an underperforming spec for necro. Just to keep class diversity up.

Your name fits your logic, mr. Carl.

[KrHome.1920]

7 hours ago, Marxx.5021 said:

Balancing in PvP is also about population not just how good a class/spec performs. There are more necros in PvP than other classes. I think it is because it is easier to play with a big health pool instead reactive with blocks, evades and so on. In that logic it makes sense to add an underperforming spec for necro. Just to keep class diversity up.

Adding a useless harbinger spec will surely reduce the amount of players playing core necro, reaper and scourge.

[Dr Meta.3158]

That is a good comparison.

Harbinger is bad Holosmith and Willbender is bad Herald.

[Dr Meta.3158]

7 hours ago, Marxx.5021 said:

Balancing in PvP is also about population not just how good a class/spec performs. There are more necros in PvP than other classes. I think it is because it is easier to play with a big health pool instead reactive with blocks, evades and so on. In that logic it makes sense to add an underperforming spec for necro. Just to keep class diversity up.

Maybe its just me, but when I don't play necromancer and have more access to evades and blocks, the game feels much easier to play. I just don't like the thematic as much as many of the other classes don't feel that different from each other.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

yeah harbinger isn't viable without sustain buffs.

[Crinn.7864]

19 hours ago, Morwath.9817 said:

Elixirs got buffed, but the question is: why would I pick them over: Consume Conditions/Spectral Walk/Flesh Wurm/certain Elite loved by everyone on those forums.

 

Elixer heal is objectively better than consume unless the enemy team is heavy on condition damage. Elixer elite is also good. Elixer of Bliss is also decent, although I don't understand why Anet put the Resolution boon on a skill that dumps 5 conditions.

 

What makes Harbinger totally unplayable however is that they put the charge skill on shroud 3 instead of shroud 2. Are they seriously really going to force me to unlearn 5 years of muscle memory?

 

 

[Ovark.2514]

I've been having the most fun with Harbinger in sPvP out of all the new Especs. After experimenting with several builds I found one which deals decent damage while having decent sustain and it even offers a little bit of team support in the form of condition removal. The build also scales up well in teamfights. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFoE1aYZFsM2HzjRiFzza8H-zZwOlIVAZKCCYIkwEwYDA

[Spellhunter.9675]

17 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Imagine having to build a class to be squishy if you want to do damage.

Ye, just look at power herald, dh, holo and FA weaver, they have no defence at all. 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

4 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

Ye, just look at power herald, dh, holo and FA weaver, they have no defence at all. 

funny how you group fa weaver in with herald and holo.

[Flumek.9043]

On 12/3/2021 at 2:23 PM, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

funny how you group fa weaver in with herald and holo.

Its all relative.

Like the planets, Jupiter seems far away and not in same league as the first 4. 

But when you look at Pluto, and you realize that its maybe not so far after all...

 

TLDR

From garbinger perspective, FA is S-tier.  Sadge.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

5 minutes ago, Flumek.9043 said:

Its all relative.

Like the planets, Jupiter seems far away and not in same league as the first 4. 

But when you look at Pluto, and you realize that its maybe not so far after all...

 

TLDR

From garbinger perspective, FA is S-tier.  Sadge.

funny how you group Pluto in with the planets