(Not so welcome) change for mesmer

[mortrialus.3062]

5 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Do all new elite specializations need to get top 100 in a tournament.

Let it come out and then we shall see, there are no broken mechanics and it does do something different even if people dont like the change. That's all the elite specialization needs to do.

PvP viability should be an important facet of design.  Yes, new elite specs should be competitive with core and other elite specializations. 

I've seen enough. Anyone who has spent time with Virtuoso in PvP agrees; it is among the absolute weakest things to have ever existed in the game.  It's not a matter of broken mechanics, it has no advantages it is capable of leveling against other professions and builds period.

5 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Even the condition and power line problem is fine since core Mesmer has a lot of condition traits so it makes sense that every elite specialization should have a condition line. My plan is to roll Grieving with full bleed duration.

The core weapons are fundamentally unviable on Virtuoso as their dps is tied to clones attacking and doing condition damage. They've left scepter and staff with 50% reduced damage output on condi.  Without clones their damage output is the absolute lowest in the game.

There have been times when things like Condi Reaper, Condi Chrono, Power Mirage, and others have found various uses and places in the game, especially in PvP.  This happens because the elite spec doesn't fundamentally nerf core weapons and traits of the profession, and their trait choices are beneficial in multiple ways not just one specific damage type. It's overall good design that offers a lot of interesting build craft even if the thesis statement of the elite spec wasn't inline with those builds.

Virtuoso very uniquely, unlike all other professions and elite specs in the game, gimps core mesmer condition weapons and the only thing it tries to offer is to brute force dagger, and only dagger, into a condi role with traits that benefit the dagger and the dagger alone.  It's the exact opposite way the game should be allowing for the idea of condi virtuoso.  That is why people hate the condition traits on Virtuoso.  Even if the condition traits on Virtuoso somehow made dagger an incredibly potent condi weapon, it still leaves the build with no functional alternative options and synergies. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

32 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

16k maybe in the best conditions. I barely see people break 10k in most of my small scale bounties since they die alot. 

In general most of my fight I'm hitting 10k even less on my chrono sometimes since I run a tank spec so I never die.

 

I will find a use for virtouso, when I was play testing it on champion bounties I was normally highest dps at around 8k and that was with the bad gear they give you

As optimal as you do 10k with Virt, actually is even easier since you have to crit less on core to achieve higher numbers. 

On a side note no one cares about pve, everything works there hence you like the garbage spec no one will competitively play. 

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

As optimal as you do 10k with Virt, actually is even easier since you have to crit less on core to achieve higher numbers. 

On a side note no one cares about pve, everything works there hence you like the garbage spec no one will competitively play. 

I wont play it PVP so i only care about it PVE. and yes it is lot easier to get high dps on Virtuoso since the rotation is simpler since it doesnt require full 3 clones and expert timing with Continuum Split or close range dodging to avoid damage on mirage.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Mell.4873

[mortrialus.3062]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

I wont play it PVP so i only care about it PVE. and yes it is lot easier to get high dps on Virtuoso since the rotation is simpler since it doesnt require full 3 clones and expert timing with Continuum Split or close range dodging to avoid damage on mirage.

And yet you kept saying it's fine in PvP. 

How is Mirage cloak "Hard to use due to close range dodging", like what.  Vs.  Virtuoso which has literally no options for avoiding damage. 

[Mell.4873]

2 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

And yet you kept saying it's fine in PvP. 

How is Mirage cloak "Hard to use due to close range dodging", like what.  Vs.  Virtuoso which has literally no options for avoiding damage. 

I just don't like to pvp with mesmer in general, I prefer ranger. That doesn't mean it isn't good.

You have to stay melee with mirage, you don't with virtuoso pretty simple stuff.

I guess staff mirage is also ranged but I don't see people use that in pve at all. 

[mortrialus.3062]

12 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I just don't like to pvp with mesmer in general, I prefer ranger. That doesn't mean it isn't good.

You have to stay melee with mirage, you don't with virtuoso pretty simple stuff.

I guess staff mirage is also ranged but I don't see people use that in pve at all. 

Maybe its because ranger's long range weapon kits are actually well designed with multiple tools that actually provides; good damage at any range, ways to keep enemies away from you, options when opponents do close the gap, options for when fights get projectile hate heavy, and all that just on longbow. 

Virtuoso is not good.  It is without question one of the absolute weakest things that has ever existed in the game.  Maybe you should actual listen to people who have spent time with Virtuoso in PvP, who have plenty of experience in PvP including top 250+ titles rather than trying to sandbag any feedback that could get Virtuoso working. 

Staff Mirage has its uses in both parties as it provides party wide permanent alacrity and 25 might as well as being one of the absolute best and easiest builds for soloing world bosses including legendary bounties.  It's absurdly good at that, but given that you think Mirage Cloak is hard somehow, I don't know what to tell you beyond that.  How the hell is Mirage Cloak "Hard"? 

Edited December 7, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[Mell.4873]

1 minute ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Maybe its because ranger's long range weapon kits are actually well designed with multiple tools that actually provides; good damage at any range, ways to keep enemies away from you, options when opponents do close the gap, options for when fights get projectile hate heavy, and all that just on longbow. 

Virtuoso is not good.  It is without question one of the absolute weakest things that has ever existed in the game.

Staff Mirage has its uses in both parties as it provides party wide permanent alacrity and 25 might as well as being one of the absolute best and easiest builds for soloing world bosses including legendary bounties.  It's absurdly good at that, but given that you think Mirage Cloak is hard somehow, I don't know what to tell you beyond that.  How the hell is Mirage Cloak "Hard"? 

Yeah i agree the ranger's ranged weapon are very strong, i use axe and shortbow so not that conventional. I might have some use for Virtuoso if i can mimic that playstyle, i will have to test it more on launch.

 

I know about staff mirage buffing, I was just saying mirage in general is melee so you need to avoid a lot of PVE damage. Ranged classes don't especially in groups.

[mortrialus.3062]

4 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Yeah i agree the ranger's ranged weapon are very strong, i use axe and shortbow so not that conventional. I might have some use for Virtuoso if i can mimic that playstyle, i will have to test it more on launch.

 

I know about staff mirage buffing, I was just saying mirage in general is melee so you need to avoid a lot of PVE damage. Ranged classes don't especially in groups.

If you're in a group you're stacked on the party which is going to be in melee anyway.

If you're solo and at range you're gimping Virtuoso's damage anyway since Daggers 2+3 and the trait bonus require point blank range for maximum effectiveness. 

Staff Mirage has an absolute absurd amount evade frames in PvE.  It also isn't a melee weapon, more like a just out of melee range weapon, which with phase retreat and chaos storm is a place you actually have the tools to maintain the fight at that range.  It actually has a well built kit with utility, and isn't just a turret that can only backpedal and spam skills with no options to actually help you.

Edited December 7, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[frareanselm.1925]

They changed the appareance of clones with daggers but the mechanics are the same. They could have done it with butterflies, birds, put your skin here_____

[Leonidrex.5649]

11 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Dude Virtuoso is fine when I was playing I was easily able to pull similar dps numbers to my chrono and mirage. 10k in open world across the board and Virtuoso has more dps on groups and large bosses making it my ideal PVE spec for most content.

 

Cant wait to play it on release with grieving armor set.

I have more then 10k dps as a healbrand lol
https://dps.report/8NIo-20211023-233239_arkk
found it lul, thats an old log I got much better now and optimized my gear more, I can pull off closer to ~13-15k as a healer now and im not even good at FB

Edited December 7, 2021 by Leonidrex.5649

[Mik.3401]

A cloneless mesmer is not the problem. In fact the class originally never had clones (GW1) and was still unique due to its control/hex abilities.

And this is where the problem stems from - yes no clones is still true to Mesmer but I wish they gave virtuoso some additional control instead. Just to bring it closer to the original Mesmer. 
As it stands it is worse than core and has ranged shatters with the same effects - that’s it.

Of course it can be viewed as something new, but let me tell you - soon enough you will get bored  of the new shatters and realise that other Mesmer specs are just more practical in applying exactly the same  set of conditions/cc and doing similar/better dps.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Mik.3401

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

I have more then 10k dps as a healbrand lol
https://dps.report/8NIo-20211023-233239_arkk
found it lul, thats an old log I got much better now and optimized my gear more, I can pull off closer to ~13-15k as a healer now and im not even good at FB

I never said fractals I said open world pve. Most fights you cant even pull off a full rotation since they go invun, you are about to die, or they die to quickly.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

14 hours ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

PvP viability should be an important facet of design.  Yes, new elite specs should be competitive with core and other elite specializations. 

I've seen enough. Anyone who has spent time with Virtuoso in PvP agrees; it is among the absolute weakest things to have ever existed in the game.  It's not a matter of broken mechanics, it has no advantages it is capable of leveling against other professions and builds period.

The core weapons are fundamentally unviable on Virtuoso as their dps is tied to clones attacking and doing condition damage. They've left scepter and staff with 50% reduced damage output on condi.  Without clones their damage output is the absolute lowest in the game.

There have been times when things like Condi Reaper, Condi Chrono, Power Mirage, and others have found various uses and places in the game, especially in PvP.  This happens because the elite spec doesn't fundamentally nerf core weapons and traits of the profession, and their trait choices are beneficial in multiple ways not just one specific damage type. It's overall good design that offers a lot of interesting build craft even if the thesis statement of the elite spec wasn't inline with those builds.

Virtuoso very uniquely, unlike all other professions and elite specs in the game, gimps core mesmer condition weapons and the only thing it tries to offer is to brute force dagger, and only dagger, into a condi role with traits that benefit the dagger and the dagger alone.  It's the exact opposite way the game should be allowing for the idea of condi virtuoso.  That is why people hate the condition traits on Virtuoso.  Even if the condition traits on Virtuoso somehow made dagger an incredibly potent condi weapon, it still leaves the build with no functional alternative options and synergies. 

Honestly we don't really know how it will preform in PVP since we have only had betas to test it.

 

In terms of the condition line you can always run hybrid builds since they exist on end game Soulbeast builds. I think you are reading into this to much just play it or don't. People have been wanted a no clone spec for a while and they are getting one, I'm happy with that.

[mortrialus.3062]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Honestly we don't really know how it will preform in PVP since we have only had betas to test it.

 

In terms of the condition line you can always run hybrid builds since they exist on end game Soulbeast builds. I think you are reading into this to much just play it or don't. People have been wanted a no clone spec for a while and they are getting one, I'm happy with that.

This isn't Soulbeast where there's a lot of hidden combos and interactions that aren't discovered for like a year kitten Boonbeast.  There ultimately very little to Virtuoso.  It is flat on it's face not good and in this state is fundamentally unviable for PvP.  I spent upwards of 10 hours testing it in ranked during the first demo weekend. It is fundamentally unviable in it's current state. A sitting duck free kill for thieves and heralds.

Your devil's advocate is tiresome.

Edited December 8, 2021 by mortrialus.3062

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

13 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Honestly we don't really know how it will preform in PVP since we have only had betas to test it.

 

In terms of the condition line you can always run hybrid builds since they exist on end game Soulbeast builds. I think you are reading into this to much just play it or don't. People have been wanted a no clone spec for a while and they are getting one, I'm happy with that.

See I don't think you're understanding where the rest of us are coming from. A majority of us are fine with a cloneless Mesmer spec. But when it is pretty much unviable in 2/3 of the game, that's when we start having issues with it.  At it's core, its gameplay is pretty fun, but that doesn't mean it isn't without issues.

We are trying to provide feedback to make it more viable in WvW and PvP. That's fine that YOU don't play those and prefer to only play open world, cool. A majority of the feedback given isn't going to affect PvE, in fact, most of it would make PvE a more enjoyable/ fluid experience while making its more viable in other game modes. 

You choose to not acknowledge what other have to say and other input from other players and are in fact just trolling at this point instead of having an open discussion or even being open to the idea that the class could use some work.

I love thief personally, but don't play enough high end PvE content to give feedback on it. Do you see me SCREAMING at the thief forms that "ITS PERFECT DONT TOUCH IT! EVERYONE ELSES FEEDBACK IS USELESS." No that childish.

Edited December 8, 2021 by MrAmputatoes.6031

[SoulGuardian.6203]

On 12/4/2021 at 11:39 PM, Hirosama Nadasaki.6792 said:

Posts on a public forum.

Someone replies in disagreement.

Lashes out as if they've just insulted you and your family.

Mate you're going places.

Because this.

And this

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/the-forums-code-of-conduct/

 

Some of us are respectful enough to follow rules.

I don't see how your post or others, dishing out insults are constructive in any way, shape, or form.

 

I don't see how try bullying people into submission and try ridicule them is going to change their oppinion.

 

Not everyone takes videogames so serious as if it was a matter of life or death situation.

 

A lot of people like virtuoso.

 

As it has been mentioned, the original mesmer had no clones of any kind.

It relied on interrupts and hexes.

 

Also, the very first videos and interviews with Arena Net, the devs said there isn't going to be a mesmer,  because there was a dilema over a lot of old timers complained about interrupts.

Some didn't want the interrupts nightmare that it was mesmer... or to develop it.

Honestly, IMO I don't think that the devs really wanted to work on a mesmer.

Hence why it is not very popular amongst them, and the answer to someone who said that they don't think that devs play it.

I think they only added mesmer from a sales pov.

Not because they had any real interest in it.

Nightmare mesmer once, nightmare twice.

But because the other half wanted mesmer, and felt it was unfair not to have it.

ANet decided to add mesmer after all, minus the rupts.

Mesmer mains can consider themselves lucky that ANet pamper them to a new clone mesmer.

 

You're not happy with virtuoso?

Imagine how I felt that an old timer Rupter/Dom hexer saw as mesmer got completely butchered with clones!?

 

Are we a bit selfish?

 

I don't hate clones.

Let me make that clear. 

I actually find them fun to play with.

But being an old school mesmer, I wanted something that would bring mesmer back to its original essence, or as close as virtually possible.

 

Fellow gamer.

I play GW for the fun factor.

Even in GW1 I never obsessed with it.

Even to this day I can't solo farm in GW1 places such as The Underworld or Slaver's Exile. 

I could. But frankly I just can't be bothered.

I like my mesmer hero rupters in my team.

Even the famous Charr Ranger Pyre Fierceshot has had some rupting of some sort at one time or another.

 

I can see where you are coming from.

I'm not disregarding your point of view.

But listening goes both ways too.

As a fellow player mentioned in a previous post.

Don't drag people through the mud.

 

All ES have a pve and pvp versions.

Correct?

 

If the problem is that you're not happy with ANet... the best way is to contact them directly.

I don't work for them.

I'm merely an old timer GW player who was also not happy with mesmer to begin with, but you didn't see me going on every mesmer post and say how bad it was.

You never saw me post essays saying how incompetent the devs are.

 

They are a team who have many sections.

From the highest, the  shot caller; to the normal employees, including cleaners.

 

I never once insulted ANet for any reason whatsoever.

Do you think I'm happy with the general mechanics?

I wanted GW2 to be like GW1 in the sense that any class could use any weapon. 

I want my mesmers to use double pistols.

I want them to have a whip.

I want them to use interrupts like in the old days.

 

I never once went on a verbal Rampage and insult every living player that didn't share my views , including ANet Devs.

 

The bosses makes the decisions.

The Devs get paid to do it.

Do you know how hard it is to make a game?

 

Here's the thing buddy.

It's just a game mate. Chill out. 

No need to insult people over it.

Whether it's Virtuoso, Mechanist, or any other Class or Elite Spec.

Enjoy the game.

But most importantly, don't forget to enjoy life.

There are more important things to worry about in real life than the amount of damage a virtual bladesong spawn does to other players.

 

You ought to know the difference. 

Have a nice day. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Because this.

And this

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/the-forums-code-of-conduct/

 

Some of us are respectful enough to follow rules.

I don't see how your post or others, dishing out insults are constructive in any way, shape, or form.

 

I don't see how try bullying people into submission and try ridicule them is going to change their oppinion.

 

Not everyone takes videogames so serious as if it was a matter of life or death situation.

 

A lot of people like virtuoso.

 

As it has been mentioned, the original mesmer had no clones of any kind.

It relied on interrupts and hexes.

 

Also, the very first videos and interviews with Arena Net, the devs said there isn't going to be a mesmer,  because a lot of old timers complained about interrupts.

They didn't want the interrupts nightmare that it was mesmer.

 

But because the other half wanted mesmer, and felt it was unfair.

ANet decided to add mesmer after all, minus the rupts.

Mesmer mains can consider themselves lucky that ANet pamper them new clone mesmer.

 

You're not happy with virtuoso?

Imagine how I felt that an old timer rupter/Dom hexer saw as mesmer got completely butchered with clones!?

 

Are we a bit selfish?

 

I don't hate clones.

Let me make that clear. 

I actually find them fun to play with.

But being an old school mesmer, I wanted something that would bring mesmer back to its original essence.

 

Friend. Fellow gamer.

I play GW for the fun factor.

Even in GW1 I never obsessed with it.

Even to this day I can't solo farm.

 

I can see where you are coming from.

I'm not disregarding your point of view.

But listening goes both ways too.

As a fellow player mentioned in a previous post.

Don't drag people through the mud.

 

All ES have a pve and pvp versions.

Correct?

 

If the problem is that you're not happy with ANet... the best way is to contact them directly.

I don't work for them.

I'm merely an old timer GW player who was also not happy with mesmer to begin with, but you didn't see me going on every mesmer post and say how bad it was.

You never saw me post essays saying how incompetent the devs are.

 

They are a team who have many sections.

From the highest, the  shot caller; to the normal employees, including cleaners.

 

I never once insulted ANet for any reason whatsoever.

Do you think I'm happy with the general mechanics?

I wanted GW2 to be like GW1 in the sense that any class could use any weapon. 

I want my mesmers to use double pistols.

I want them to have a whip.

I want them to use interrupts like in the old days.

 

I never once went on a verbal Rampage and insult every living player that didn't share my views , including ANet Devs.

 

The bosses makes the decisions.

The Devs get paid to do it.

Do you know how hard it is to make a game?

 

Here's the thing buddy.

It's just a game mate. Chill out. 

No need to insult people over it.

Whether it's Virtuoso, Mechanist, or any other Class or Elite Spec.

Enjoy the game.

But most importantly, don't forget to enjoy life.

There are more important things to worry about in real life than the amount of damage a virtual bladesong spawn does to other players.

 

You ought to know the difference. 

Have a nice day. 

Gw2 mesmer wasn't changed because old timers complained about rupts, it was changed because rupts are dependent on good ping and because devs wanted a dumb down easy mode game without the complexity of the first game. Clones and phantasms were actually an idea by an user of gw2 guru to replace hexes. Now if they took the idea or it was just a coincidence I don't know, I don't believe in coincidences.  

About Virt plenty of mesmers aren't against no clones idea but against the garbage this no clones spec is. Almost everyone that preached the no clones wanted a GW1 type of mesmer - a disrupt spec with tons of cc that inspired fear in other professions. 

Instead we got a spec that is going to be farmed by everyone easily, no cc no mobility no boons no damage no mechanic. It is by far the most shallow and bland spec I ever played in all my life and I played a kitten ton of rpgs. 

[SoulGuardian.6203]

2 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Gw2 mesmer wasn't changed because old timers complained about rupts, it was changed because rupts are dependent on good ping and because devs wanted a dumb down easy mode game without the complexity of the first game. Clones and phantasms were actually an idea by an user of gw2 guru to replace hexes. Now if they took the idea or it was just a coincidence I don't know, I don't believe in coincidences.  

About Virt plenty of mesmers aren't against no clones idea but against the garbage this no clones spec is. Almost everyone that preached the no clones wanted a GW1 type of mesmer - a disrupt spec with tons of cc that inspired fear in other professions. 

Instead we got a spec that is going to be farmed by everyone easily, no cc no mobility no boons no damage no mechanic. It is by far the most shallow and bland spec I ever played in all my life and I played a kitten ton of rpgs. 

Ok.

So I see that you chose to ignore most of my previous post.

I don't know how much of it did you read, because you still seem to be very angry over the matter.

Now, I don't know how old you are, but I'm going to treat you with respect, and assume you have a good rationale to differ real life from a videogame. 

 

Let's talk facts here.

ANet is a business. Correct?

As such, they need to reach a wider audience or player base.

They make decisions everyday to try accomodate everyone, or as many people as possible; especially when the competition these days is vast and tough.

 

They want to try to bring back older players too, aswell as people who played for short periods of time.

 

Which part of it so far are you guys not getting?

Hence the question about being selfish.

You have to have the notion that if you don't look after ANet too, there might not be an ANet Guild Wars team tomorrow.

 

So let's stop all the ranting and start looking at it from a different angle.

Someone mentioned that I wasn't seeing the bigger picture because I wasn't looking at it from a pvp pov.

So here's an even bigger picture.

You have to stop looking at it from a selfish pov, (I'm looking at you, pvp players), and see that the bosses who make the decisions in ANet give the the devs a choice.

They have to maximise sales.

If they don't reach that target, the funding is pulled off and GW2 team ceases to exist. It is no more.

 

So...

They decided to make Virtuoso because the marketing and finances team who are paid to survey players, and find out new ways to bring in both new and old players, may have advised to do so.

...and voila, Virtuoso is born.

 

Keeping a mesmer clone-bound is not the same as keeping an ele ele-bound.

That's not even a valid argument.

Mesmers original essence is interrupts and hexes. 

 

Also yes, old school interrupts rely on ping.

You're right.

But it is true that ANet did announce when they were still working on GW2 that there wasn't going to be a mesmer.

As far as I remember, that eas a late decision to actually add the class... and it is true that a lot of people argued about adding the mesmer or not.

Edited December 9, 2021 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Ok.

So I see that you chose to ignore most of my previous post.

I don't know how much of it did you read, because you still seem to be very angry over the matter.

Now, I don't know how old you are, but I'm going to treat you with respect, and assume you have a good rationale to differ real life from a videogame. 

 

Let's talk facts here.

ANet is a business. Correct?

As such, they need to reach a wider audience or player base.

They make decisions everyday to try accomodate everyone, or as many people as possible; especially when the competition these days is vast and tough.

 

They want to try to bring back older players too, aswell as people who played for short periods of time.

 

Which part of it so far are you guys not getting?

Hence the question about being selfish.

You have to have the notion that if you don't look after ANet too, there might not be an ANet Guild Wars team tomorrow.

 

So let's stop all the ranting and start looking at it from a different angle.

Someone mentioned that I wasn't seeing the bigger picture because I wasn't looking at it from a pvp pov.

So here's an even bigger picture.

You have to stop looking at it from a pvp pov, and see that the bosses who make the decisions in ANet decided to make Virtuoso because the marketing and finances team may have advised to do so.

 

Keeping a mesmer clone-bound is not the same as keeping an ele ele-bound.

That's not even a valid argument.

Mesmers original essence is interrupts and hexes. 

 

Also yes, old school interrupts rely on ping.

You're right.

But it is true that ANet did announce when they were still working on GW2 that there wasn't going to be a mesmer.

As far as I remember, that eas a late decision to actually add the class... and it is true that a lot of people argued about adding the mesmer or not.

What is with this notion that just because they develop the game that all their decisions is suddenly the golden rule and is correct?

I mean if that was the case I'm sure WoW is doing a fantastic job right now ehhh??? Truth be told even at WoWs horrid state it still has more viewership and members then GW2 as it stands, and they have a monthly sub. 

So lets not pretend that ANET's decisions are correct because clearly from most of the forum class threads that it has been pretty negative so far. 

Its players like you that allow the game to spiral to become worse because you simple accept whatever the dev's throw at it. 

There is a difference between being a realist verses an ignorant fool. 

[SoulGuardian.6203]

12 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

What is with this notion that just because they develop the game that all their decisions is suddenly the golden rule and is correct?

I mean if that was the case I'm sure WoW is doing a fantastic job right now ehhh??? Truth be told even at WoWs horrid state it still has more viewership and members then GW2 as it stands, and they have a monthly sub. 

So lets not pretend that ANET's decisions are correct because clearly from most of the forum class threads that it has been pretty negative so far. 

Its players like you that allow the game to spiral to become worse because you simple accept whatever the dev's throw at it. 

There is a difference between being a realist verses an ignorant fool. 

I don't agree with every decision that ANet does.

You're right about that.

As I mentioned. 

There are many aspects of the game that I'm not happy about.

But would you rather be tolerant of a few acceptable decisions they make or the shot caller shut down the GW team?

I know what I'd rather have.

 

So is it all or nothing with you?

I can think of a few dozens aspects of the game on the top of my head that drastically needs changing.

 

But we don't know what is the situation within the GW team.

We need to give people the benefit of the doubt before we judge them too harshly.

 

They can shut down the servers ar any given time, if they so feel inclined. 

I know they said they never will... but what if they do?

You can't completely discard the possibility.

What are all the hardcore protesters gonna do about it?

 

I rather be a silent fool, than a loud mouth loser... in the sense of if GW ceases to exist.

Then we all lose.

Edited December 9, 2021 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

2 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Ok.

So I see that you chose to ignore most of my previous post.

I don't know how much of it did you read, because you still seem to be very angry over the matter.

Now, I don't know how old you are, but I'm going to treat you with respect, and assume you have a good rationale to differ real life from a videogame. 

 

Let's talk facts here.

ANet is a business. Correct?

As such, they need to reach a wider audience or player base.

They make decisions everyday to try accomodate everyone, or as many people as possible; especially when the competition these days is vast and tough.

 

They want to try to bring back older players too, aswell as people who played for short periods of time.

 

Which part of it so far are you guys not getting?

Hence the question about being selfish.

You have to have the notion that if you don't look after ANet too, there might not be an ANet Guild Wars team tomorrow.

 

So let's stop all the ranting and start looking at it from a different angle.

Someone mentioned that I wasn't seeing the bigger picture because I wasn't looking at it from a pvp pov.

So here's an even bigger picture.

You have to stop looking at it from a selfish pov, (I'm looking at you, pvp players), and see that the bosses who make the decisions in ANet give the the devs a choice.

They have to maximise sales.

If they don't reach that target, the funding is pulled off and GW2 team ceases to exist. It is no more.

 

So...

They decided to make Virtuoso because the marketing and finances team who are paid to survey players, and find out new ways to bring in both new and old players, may have advised to do so.

...and voila, Virtuoso is born.

 

Keeping a mesmer clone-bound is not the same as keeping an ele ele-bound.

That's not even a valid argument.

Mesmers original essence is interrupts and hexes. 

 

Also yes, old school interrupts rely on ping.

You're right.

But it is true that ANet did announce when they were still working on GW2 that there wasn't going to be a mesmer.

As far as I remember, that eas a late decision to actually add the class... and it is true that a lot of people argued about adding the mesmer or not.

Your previous post wasn't even directed at me, I just responded to get some stuff straight. 

Yes ANet is business and they're pretty bad at it. And that's a fact, not an opinion. 

- they wasted resources on dungeons and later killed them. 

- they wasted resources on fractals and they've abandoned them. 

- they wasted resources on raids only a handful of players do them, they've trashed them now in favor of strikes. 

- they abandoned gw2 in favor of a new game, wasted resources on it, and only ncsoft made them focus on gw2 if it was not for ncsoft this game would have been dead. 

- it seems obvious that that due to the previous point ncsoft cut the funds, hence a lackluster xpac full of recycled stuff. 

So, no, Virt is not due to surveys or whatever but due to laziness and quick cash on pocket with low effort. 

Virt is still clone bound, they just rename clones blades and trash the physical aspect of them. Hence people are mad:

- people that wanted clones don't have them. 

- people that wanted a no clone spec still don't have it. 

They done goof and angried both factions with their garbage spec. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[SoulGuardian.6203]

22 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Your previous post wasn't even directed at me, I just responded to get some stuff straight. 

Oh ok. I thought you might have.

 

Quote

Yes ANet is business and they're pretty bad at it. And that's a fact, not an opinion. 

- they wasted resources on dungeons and later killed them. 

- they wasted resources on fractals and they've abandoned them. 

- they wasted resources on raids only a handful of players do them, they've trashed them now in favor of strikes. 

- they abandoned gw2 in favor of a new game, wasted resources on it, and only ncsoft made them focus on gw2 if it was not for ncsoft this game would have been dead. 

No argument from me on this.

I take your word for it, and if that is the case, then well, you're right.

 

Quote

- it seems obvious that the hatdue to the previous point ncsoft cut the funds, hence a lackluster xpac full of recycled stuff. 

So, no, Virt is not due to surveys or whatever but due to laziness and quick cash on pocket with low effort. 

Virt is still clone bound, they just rename clones blades and trash the physical aspect of them. Hence people are mad:

- people that wanted clones don't have them. 

- people that wanted a no clone spec still don't have it. 

They done goof and angried both factions with their garbage spec. 

True.

They could have done a much better job of it.

I feel the mistake was initially bind mesmer to clones to begin with.

Do you think that they should take Virtuoso Back to the drawing board then?

Although I think that the blades in Virtuoso are a pretty neat visual aspect of the ES.

As it stands now, I'd scrap the daggers, give them a Main Hand pistol and call it Gunmage.

In fact, thinking about it, I'd much rather have a gunmage and still retain clones if it is going to mess up the entire ES.

 

I'm afraid our word carries very little weight or none, and it may well be too late for changing the entire ES.

ANet is not exactly known for listening to players very much.

Not very much at all.

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by SoulGuardian.6203

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

38 minutes ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Oh ok. I thought you might have.

 

No argument from me on this.

I take your word for it, and if that is the case, then well, you're right.

 

True.

They could have done a much better job of it.

I feel the mistake was initially bind mesmer to clones to begin with.

Do you think that they should take Virtuoso Back to the drawing board then?

Although I think that the blades in Virtuoso are a pretty neat visual aspect of the ES.

As it stands now, I'd scrap the daggers, give them a Main Hand pistol and call it Gunmage.

In fact, thinking about it, I'd much rather have a gunmage and still retain clones if it is going to mess up the entire ES.

 

I'm afraid our word carries very little weight or none, and it may well be too late for changing the entire ES.

ANet is not exactly known for listening to players very much.

Not very much at all.

 

Yes, they should have scrap it and begin all over again. 

Again, I'm not against no clones, some mesmers on this forum have plead for a no clone spec for years, on top of mind me, Mort and Curunen but some others too. 

The problem is this no clones is bland, we wanted something akin to GW1 mes. A shutdown machine. They should have brought back hexes, even just 4 of them to replace shatters. I mean hexes are already on game on pve, fragility comes to mind. 

But even this spec can be made tolerable, but it absolutely needs mobility, cc and better ranged weapons at very least. 

I mean Virt is the only spec that haven't got mobility on this xpac and mesmer the only one that only got one handed weapon in 3 xpacs. This in my view is bias against mesmer. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[SoulGuardian.6203]

12 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Yes, they should have scrap it and begin all over again. 

Again, I'm not against no clones, some mesmers on this forum have plead for a no clone spec for years, on top of mind me, Mort and Curunen but some others too. 

The problem is this no clones is bland, we wanted something akin to GW1 mes. A shutdown machine. They should have brought back hexes, even just 4 of them to replace shatters. I mean hexes are already on game on pve, fragility comes to mind. 

But even this spec can be made tolerable, but it absolutely needs mobility, cc and better ranged weapons at very least. 

I mean Virt is the only spec that haven't got mobility on this xpac and mesmer the only one that only got one handed weapon in 3 xpacs. This in my view is bias against mesmer. 

Alright.

Then I'd like you to comment on this one please.

 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 hour ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Alright.

Then I'd like you to comment on this one please.

 

I don't think it would solve anything but at least your idea has a theme. 

Virtuoso reminds me of kids playing like:

Kid 1 - I throw blades

Kid 2 - but I have a machinegun

Kid 1 - oh yeah? I have psionic powers and destroy your machinegun

Kid 2 - you can't, I have an anti-psionics shield

Kid 1 - who cares, I also play some sick songs that do damage. 

 

There's not one fantasy author in this world that would come up with something so disconnected and nonsense as virtuoso.  Not even Terry Goodkind. So please however came up with Virtuoso concept, just stop, fantasy world is definitely not for you.