Taimi’s Simulation

[Gibson.4036]

In LW3 Taimi created a simulation and shared it with the commander. In it, the fire and ice orbs get close to each other, spark, are destroyed, followed by the whole system going supernova. At least, that’s what I understood watching it again.

Fast forward through PoF and LW4 and 5, and fire and ice destroy each other. But then no supernova.

Is this because at the time of the simulation Aurene was young and Taimi didn’t understand her role yet, but Aurene is now maintaining the balance so no supernova?

Or can we speculate that the supernova was delayed partly because Jade absorbed a bunch and is now also, at least temporarily, maintaining the balance? And what we’re walking into in EOD is a ticking nova bomb?

Is the threat of supernova still a thing?

Maybe this is all obvious. I have a little trouble holding on to where we’re at in the “oh no, this is going to be the destruction of everything” and “whew we took care of that and it’s no longer an issue” twists and turns.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

Yes, the whole point of Taimi's simulation was that simply removing Jormag and Primrodus then would upset the balance and destroy Tyria.

Now that Aurene has ascended into an Elder Dragon she can maintain this gap in the balance, stopping it from occurring, or at least she has been able to delay it long enough that even months after the deaths of both dragons theres no obvious signs of it happening yet.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[PseudoNewb.5468]

Much of the magic Aurene tried to absorbed and control was pull away from the aftermath of Dragonstorm. Aurene believed she could handle the released magic long enough to find a solution. However, even with her gift in foresight, she did not expect the magic to be pulled away from her. It is unclear what pulled the magic away from Aurene, but for now, whatever it is, it seems to have, at least temporarily, restrained the fallout from the released magic. We only know that it has been pulled south from hints left in the game. We will likely have a resolution to this in EoD.

Edited January 23, 2022 by PseudoNewb.5468

[EdwinLi.1284]

11 hours ago, PseudoNewb.5468 said:

Much of the magic Aurene tried to absorbed and control was pull away from the aftermath of Dragonstorm. Aurene believed she could handle the released magic long enough to find a solution. However, even with her gift in foresight, she did not expect the magic to be pulled away from her. It is unclear what pulled the magic away from Aurene, but for now, whatever it is, it seems to have, at least temporarily, restrained the fallout from the released magic. We only know that it has been pulled south from hints left in the game. We will likely have a resolution to this in EoD.

I still have my bet on it being the Dragon Jade or something related to it. The recent interview mentions something important will happen during the first part of EoD that makes us want to go to Cantha but we don't know what it is. I have a feeling Dragon Jade tech may have made it way to core regions and the Commander, Aurene, and the others notice the missing Dragon Energy in it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Some people theorize that, despite a proper explanation for such being true in-game and despite repeated tellings that multiple entities were necessary, Aurene is capable of balancing The All by herself because she's one special git.

Others theorize that the simulation was simply wrong, and the world was never in any danger. This of course means that Balthazar was bastardized for nothing and the Commander had no actual reason to antagonize Balthazar - even though the original reason for antagonizing Balth came after the fact. It also means that Sadizi, and by extension the other Exalted, Forgotten, and even Glint, as well as Kormir, and by extension the other four gods, were also completely wrong.

Still others believe that the simulation was running on a sped up course, that the world is slowly coming to a cataclysmic end, but because of both the slow development of EoD as well as a simple "it wouldn't actually happen that fast", we haven't born witness to it. Some of these folks think the "act five spoiler" talked about in the Jade Sea stream is related to this slowly encroaching cataclysmic event.

 

In the end, we simply do not know, because ArenaNet never answered.

What we do know is that, once again after the fact, Taimi has stated that she believed Aurene could balance The All solo, but now doubts it because of the magic flowing south. This being part of the Return To dialogue, near the beginning of it in fact. Sadly the end of the Return To has no conclusion, and not even a proper cliffhanger. Just random ramblings. And with EoD story being so heavily tight-lipped still, despite being no more than 5 weeks and 2 days away from release, we simply have no clue what the dealio is.

At this point in time, ArenaNet can literally go any direction because of how improper the build-up has been.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Randulf.7614]

I haven’t seen the stream - what the context of this Act 5 spoiler?

[PseudoNewb.5468]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Others theorize that the simulation was simply wrong, and the world was never in any danger. This of course means that Balthazar was bastardized for nothing and the Commander had no actual reason to antagonize Balthazar - even though the original reason for antagonizing Balth came after the fact. It also means that Sadizi, and by extension the other Exalted, Forgotten, and even Glint, as well as Kormir, and by extension the other four gods, were also completely wrong.

As a second glance to this idea. I did notice something peculiar about one of Vlast's messages to Aurene.

Quote

Vlast: The god of fire continues to pursue me. I fear he may get the weapon—if he does, the consequences will be...unpredictable.

<Character name>: That's putting it lightly. All the more reason to get to it first.

Vlast doesn't consider Balthazar's actions as fatal, merely unpredictable. And the commander underlines this characterization by saying it is being put lightly. I am not sure about the intent of these lines, but it seems like it is undermining the theory that Balthazar would cause the destruction of the world. But, even if not fatal, it also can't be assumed that the world with Balthazar eating everything is a good world for mortals.

 

I find Vlast's words interesting because we rarely hear any world from any dragons talking frankly about the nature of dragons and the magic cycle in Tyria. Even Aurene is evasive when talking about what is going on with dragon magic (or perhaps her dialogue has just been written poorly). I hope Vlast's memories are real and a considered part of the evolution of the GW2 story. Those memory snippets provide the most clear and seemingly authoritative information on the story than anything else in the game.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

What we do know is that, once again after the fact, Taimi has stated that she believed Aurene could balance The All solo, but now doubts it because of the magic flowing south.

Well no, she never said this.

Her dialogue about the magic going south, and her dialogue about Aurene being able to balance the all on her own, are two entirely different, unrelated, conversations.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Taimi#Eye_of_the_North

Quote

Player: We're low on dragons. Can Aurene handle the flow of magic alone?

Taimi: The Exalted believed Glint's scions—plural—would shoulder the burden, but we only have Aurene now. But we're still here. Either she can handle it, or something else is out there. Or time is limited.

Quote

Player: Any update on the flow of magic from the dragons' deaths?

Taimi: Directionally, it went south. The distance is unexpectedly far, so it'll take longer to triangulate. But we're getting closer to knowing.

Player: Any update on the flow of magic from the dragons' deaths?

Taimi: To summarize, a large portion of the released magic was pulled away before Aurene could capture it. Where it exactly went is currently unknown, but it's constantly on my mind.

Her mentioning the magic going south has nothing to do with what she said regarding Aurene. Not only that, but she doesn't doubt that Aurene could do it alone, she just mentions that nothing has happened yet so it seems like she can(despite the Exalted originally betting on both Vlast and Aurene doing it together), or there is something else out there unknowingly assisting Aurene with it.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

5 hours ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I haven’t seen the stream - what the context of this Act 5 spoiler?

Jade Sea takes place in a later time than the other maps, and entering the map has a big story spoiler. They were very, very careful with the stream to not show very much (despawned all the NPCs, avoided looking towards certain angles, etc.). One of the devs said the map is in "act five" but that might not be strictly accurate as it was largely just an example of late-story placement.

4 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Well no, she never said this.

Her dialogue about the magic going south, and her dialogue about Aurene being able to balance the all on her own, are two entirely different, unrelated, conversations.

Do you really have to be so nit picky against me all the time? I never said it's in the same line of dialogue, but even then it isn't separate, unrelated dialogue. They bridge from one into the other in the same flow of dialogue (despite your separation of quoting). The context is clear that the reason Taimi is doubting Aurene's ability to handle it alone is because she couldn't absorb the dragon fallout. Hence why it's part of the "can you give me an update on the dragon fallout?" dialogue umbrella.

How do you like my new lab? I mean ours. It's OUR lab. It's a little cozier than Rata Novus, but the krewe is much friendlier. Heh.

Can you give me an update on the dragon fallout?

If it's dragon magic you want to talk about, I'm your specialist. What's up?

Any update on the flow of magic from the dragons' deaths?

That's the question of the hour. Nothing to report yet, though. Sorry. We have to assume...you know... But nothing's for sure yet.

You know what they say about assuming, right?

We're low on dragons. Can Aurene handle the flow of magic alone?

The Exalted believed Glint's scions—plural—would shoulder the burden, but we only have Aurene now. But we're still here. Either she can handle it, or something else is out there. Or time is limited.

I hope that's a good sign.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Taimi#Eye_of_the_North

Either way, it's clear from the dialogue that Taimi is putting doubt into whether Aurene can handle it, and this is no doubt intentional on the writers' part - either in response to players negative reaction to not addressing the need of multiple replacements (btw, Exalted were also banking on Glint and her other eggs too, not just Vlast and Aurene) or in specific buildup for EoD or both.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[The Greyhawk.9107]

Would it kill you two to just NOT interact with each other?!?

[Gibson.4036]

By "antagonizing Balthazar" are we talking about removing his deception via the mirrors?

[Kayberz.5346]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

By "antagonizing Balthazar" are we talking about removing his deception via the mirrors?

Partly but he pretty much just means Balthazar being a villain in the narrative in general 

 

Hes been pretty vocal in the past that he doesn't like that Balthazar was made a villain and considers it somewhat of a "retcon" that Balthazar isn't a good guy, even though there is lore in factions telling a story about how he killed a man in a fit of rage after they beat him fairly in a competition, but thats just possibly a case of  "unreliable narrator" in his eyes but the other stories (told by his devout followers) of him being honorable somehow aren't 🙄

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

By "antagonizing Balthazar" are we talking about removing his deception via the mirrors?

Yes, I meant that.

The moment of the Commander antagonizing Balthazar was forcibly (and apparently painfully) removing the disguise via the mirrors after discovering that the person whom we thought was a vile mass murdering tyrant proclaiming redemption was, in fact, only someone pretending to be a mass-murdering tyrant proclaiming redemption to make use of their finances to battle the Elder Dragons.

Which isn't far from something the Commander did in that very season, TBH, with us pretending to be Sons of Svanir in order to take advantage of their resources.

At that moment in the story, "Lazarus" had never attacked anyone but destroyers and White Mantle, both of whom were the Commanders' enemies. In the context of that story mission, acting so hostile to "Lazarus" made little sense. It wasn't until the revelation and Balthazar stealing the machine that the Commander had a legitimate reason to go after Balthazar in a hostile manner.

The hostility against "Lazarus" made sense in Episode 2 though, before it was figured out to be just a disguise.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Gibson.4036]

22 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Yes, I meant that.

The moment of the Commander antagonizing Balthazar was forcibly (and apparently painfully) removing the disguise via the mirrors after discovering that the person whom we thought was a vile mass murdering tyrant proclaiming redemption was, in fact, only someone pretending to be a mass-murdering tyrant proclaiming redemption to make use of their finances to battle the Elder Dragons.

Which isn't far from something the Commander did in that very season, TBH, with us pretending to be Sons of Svanir in order to take advantage of their resources.

My mind went to pretending to be Archon Iberu. The commander is definitely not above pretending to be a villain to fool other villains. Villain disguises appear all over the game, and we even take on Ryland's persona when he's still in a morally ambiguous place.

I suppose the commander could have nicely asked not-Lazarus who he actually was. Coming in a disguise, especially as an ancient evil now reformed and seeking to help, though, is a pretty antagonistic move.

In any of the situations where the commander does disguise themself, it would be expected that, if discovered, they'd be attacked. When the commander admits their ruse to Crecia, she says she should open their throat in response.

I didn't read the stripping of the illusion as painful. I read Balthazar's reaction as rage over being challenged/thwarted.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Pretending to be Iberu is definitely a closer parallel, as it's a much higher scale than when we pretended to be a Son of Svanir. I just felt it was very hypocritical to attack someone pretending to be a villain for the sake of using said villain's connections and wealth for good, when the Commander regularly does the same.

And of course the Commander would expect to be attacked, since he's infiltrating "evil" organizations. A spy will be attacked if found, but a spy working on your side while infiltrating the enemy shouldn't be someone you attack when you find out they're spying. Like Malice's spies in the Dominion.

Just a personal opinion thing and one of my issues with the S3/PoF plot.

18 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I didn't read the stripping of the illusion as painful. I read Balthazar's reaction as rage over being challenged/thwarted.

Possibly. I see it as both.

Lazarus: AH! What is this?

<Character name>: I know you're an imposter! Show yourself!

Lazarus: Fools! Destroy the mirrors!

Lazarus: ARRRRGH!
<Character name>: The charade ends here!

This portion reads as screams of surprise, then pain.

Lazarus: ARRRRGH!

Lazarus: Enough of this!

While this portion reads as screams of frustration (and also possibly pain).

Edited January 26, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Trejgon.9367]

18 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

While this portion reads as screams of frustration (and also possibly pain).

I mean, he could have dropped illusion instead of ordering his minions to destroy the mirrors 😉

(the quote you provided shows commander has actually requested him to reveal himself)

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

 

(the quote you provided shows commander has actually requested him to reveal himself)

Heh, I totally missed that!

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

4 hours ago, Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

(the quote you provided shows commander has actually requested him to reveal himself)

Not really. The mirrors stripping the illusion was activated before saying that, and it was more a command than request.

 

I know that sounds nitpicky, but that actually is an important difference. The Commander didn't ask before attempting to forcibly reveal Balthazar's identity. They just straight up trick "Lazarus" into the mirrors and only once "Lazarus" was in the trap did they reveal they knew "Lazarus" was fake.

 

It'd be a very different situation if the events was something like this:

 

Commander: -lures "Lazarus" into position- By the way, Lazarus, I've found one of 'your' aspects in Caudecus' desk.

"Lazarus": And? I do not need every piece of myself to reform.

Commander: I don't think that's true. And neither did the White Mantle. A mursaat changing their view on life - no one believes that. Who are you *really*?

"Lazarus": I don't know what you're talking about.

Commander: We'll see - KASMEER! NOW!

-mirrors shifted into position by Kasmeer's illusions turning onto "Lazarus", breaking his disguise-

"Lazarus": AH! What is this!

-rest plays out as it did-

 

Something along those lines would have made more  sense, and be within the realm of reason for the Commander beyond instantly deciding to antagonize someone who's done the same thing the Commander has for doing those things. Though it's still antagonizing Balthazar first, it's at least offering Balthazar the option to come clean first.