Scrapper Impact Savant 15% to 5% nerf

[Kodama.6453]

52 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

I think Anet looked at WvW complain but made a mistake a nerfed PvE instead. 

 

I cant think of any reason why Scrapper in PvE needed a nerf. 

It was for some reason another of these blanket nerfs over the entire game. Like when they removed all damage from CC skills back then without looking at the context of the skills in question, leaving some skills absolutely unusable in PvP.

This is the same. For some reason, they think they have to nerf sustain and so they nerfed it across the board without looking how the traits they nerf actually perform and their context.

It seems not much thought is put into balance anymore. They just go "CC is op, let's nerf all CC. Sustain is op, let's nerf all traits which give sustain".

Edited March 1, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[tetmikem.5608]

Scrapper is my main.  I agree, the nerf feels harsh.  So far though in Open World I'm not dying any more than I previously was even with large groups of mobs or champions.  You just need to move more, dodge more.  I do take the increased barrier and vitality trait in the explosives line in OW though, which helps. 

[Noah Salazar.5430]

So Reaper can have secound hp bar, but Scraper for only "5%" barrier geting -180 vitality, also having less dmg then meta builds 😕

Perfect

Edited March 1, 2022 by Noah Salazar.5430

[raykor.6723]

Moving more, dodging more, and spec'ing more toughness/vitality are common sense tips that help every melee class survive. But all those changes mean your engaging less, doing less damage, generating even less barrier. It completely negates the intended playstyle.

 ..refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight...making the scrapper a durable combatant as long as they can keep dishing out damage..

I would have appreciated an explanation from ANET. What is their new intended playstyle for the Scrapper?

[Rokeb.3815]

2 minutes ago, raykor.6723 said:

 

I would have appreciated an explanation from ANET. What is their new intended playstyle for the Scrapper?

It's called "Mechanist".

 

Sarcasm aside, it's clear they have no idea at all.

They have decided that sustain isn't an allowed playstyle anymore with no consideration at all that some spec's don't have other options - since it's baked right into the scrapper trait line.

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Rokeb.3815
Added non-sarcastic comment.

[ThrakathNar.4537]

35 minutes ago, raykor.6723 said:

Moving more, dodging more, and spec'ing more toughness/vitality are common sense tips that help every melee class survive. But all those changes mean your engaging less, doing less damage, generating even less barrier. It completely negates the intended playstyle.

 ..refocus the scrapper as a tank-like character that utilizes personal barrier applications to stay in a fight...making the scrapper a durable combatant as long as they can keep dishing out damage..

I would have appreciated an explanation from ANET. What is their new intended playstyle for the Scrapper?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/404613490477629440/948252602989183026/unknown.png

(Viewable from the Hero Panel In-game, hover over the Scrapper icon when selecting a traitline)

This is their new intended playstyle. I disagree with half of the stuff that they've written (Scrapper doesn't have access to cleanse outside of gyros beyond what's on core, and it's not a support spec), but unfortunately this is the way that they're going with it.

 

So of course the natural process from that is not to rework Impact Savant to fit their new vision for Scrapper as a support spec, but instead just to nerf it and keep it as something that promotes a bruiser playstyle. Because reasons.

Edited March 1, 2022 by ThrakathNar.4537

[Zzik.5873]

3 hours ago, laoshanlung.3675 said:

I couldn't believe it when I saw it in the patch note like wth.... -180 vitality and now only 5% damage being converted to barrier (which only last few seconds). I don't even see that many scrappers in PvE, with this change I think I will see even fewer of them.

 

Mechanist... is kinda meh to me (for now), losing the whole tool belt for a stupid mech that randomly stuck somewhere 😐 even died unexpectedly (bug?) when I was gliding from one place to another

I dont like the nerf to scrapper at all. But the mech is really not that clunky, use the f4 to repositioned the mech and always keep track of his position. Not use to play ranger maybe? For me the mechanist spec is awesome!!!

[miriforst.1290]

Quote

ThrakathNar.4537

I was going to say that scrapper itself provides no healing, but then i remembered that technically healing gyro exists. Also yeah the support range is good when you trait for it, but it's hardly shout range now is it?

 

Shame function gyro is still one of the most unreliable revive skills in the game and mostly used to proc aoe super speed to proc quickness. 😕

Edited March 1, 2022 by miriforst.1290

[Jerus.4350]

Just to throw some math out there, -180 Vitality would be -1800 HP, to get that back in the form of barrier we would need to do 1800/0.05= 36000 damage every 5 seconds (to maintain barrier) or 7200 Strike DPS (Please correct me if I'm wrong here).  In coordinated groups while playing a Power based DPS or DPS/Boon role, that's no problem.  Most anywhere else, at least personally that's not an easy target.  I'm not usually hitting that solo in OW screwing around on champs, nor am I getting anywhere close while playing a healing/support role. 

 

Personally I don't have a problem with the nerf to barrier, when I came back to the game a couple months back my initial reaction was that Scrapper was just OP.  I do think the -180 Vitality is a bit harsh at this point though, making that trait a negative in many situations. 

[wasss.1208]

7 hours ago, tetmikem.5608 said:

Scrapper is my main.  I agree, the nerf feels harsh.  So far though in Open World I'm not dying any more than I previously was even with large groups of mobs or champions.  You just need to move more, dodge more.  I do take the increased barrier and vitality trait in the explosives line in OW though, which helps. 

I'm having similar experiences. I'm running an almost standard quickness scrapper on the new maps at the moment. Almost standard meaning, that I run with 45-50%-ish boon dura. Apart from that, I am all glasscannon. I am yet to die to an enemy, that was meant to be soloed. I am no longer perma maxed out barrier, but my health also barely gets low, thanks to that trickling barrier that the minor gives.

[Sticky.2653]

7 hours ago, tetmikem.5608 said:

 I do take the increased barrier and vitality trait in the explosives line in OW though, which helps. 

After taking last night away from the game to get over the heavy handed nerf to sustain.  Came back to the forum and found this post.  Thank you for helping to give me my Scrapper back tetmikem.5608.  This one change made my Scrapper stand tall in a fight again.

This one skill change and to constantly use the speed of the scrapper to stay behind/beside your target and wail on it is very good.

[Okhu.7948]

Still never die. I just never have a full barrier bar anymore. Oh well.

[Terek.8923]

if we want the game to be harder then they have to start nerfing all the power creep. these changes are fine.

The game is too easy as is.  I would rather have had them just increase the mob density or buff the mobs that exist though.

Anet wants us to dodge more.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Terek.8923

[tetmikem.5608]

In a large group of mobs, Shredder Gyro is still your friend for barrier production, just not your best friend anymore.  You've had a little falling out. they don't have your back quite as much as before.....but you are still tight. 

[tetmikem.5608]

2 hours ago, Terek.8923 said:

if we want the game to be harder then they have to start nerfing all the power creep. these changes are fine.

The game is too easy as is.  I would rather have had them just increase the mob density or buff the mobs that exist though.

Anet wants us to dodge more.

 

Yeah, I actually am enjoying the slightly increased challenge and being forced to think about where I am standing and not just blindly face-tank. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

13 hours ago, Jerus.4350 said:

Just to throw some math out there, -180 Vitality would be -1800 HP, to get that back in the form of barrier we would need to do 1800/0.05= 36000 damage every 5 seconds (to maintain barrier) or 7200 Strike DPS (Please correct me if I'm wrong here).  In coordinated groups while playing a Power based DPS or DPS/Boon role, that's no problem.  Most anywhere else, at least personally that's not an easy target.  I'm not usually hitting that solo in OW screwing around on champs, nor am I getting anywhere close while playing a healing/support role. 

 

Personally I don't have a problem with the nerf to barrier, when I came back to the game a couple months back my initial reaction was that Scrapper was just OP.  I do think the -180 Vitality is a bit harsh at this point though, making that trait a negative in many situations. 

To be technical about it, whether Impact Savant compensates for the vitality loss is determined by how much damage gets mitigated by barrier in each engagement, and not the total amount of barrier gained.  For example, it is possible to blow up a bunch of mobs without getting hit, netting a lot of barrier that ultimately made no contribution.  Those circumstances would be trivial, though, because the vitality loss made no hinderance, either.  Because of this, the DPS or maximum sustained barrier isn't particularly important.  If, through the course of an entire fight, more than 1800 total damage was absorbed by the barrier, then Impact Savant has been a net positive.  

[raykor.6723]

The playstyle of the Scrapper as a bruiser that depends on barrier for sustain is no longer viable. Everything else about the class is still good. You can do damage, kill things, and survive. It's just that barrier generation is no longer a primary characteristic of the class.

I don't understand why they did this. There are plenty of other classes and builds that can generate significant barrier for personal sustain but whatever.

So now let's just get rid of the Impact Savant trait entirely. Replace it with something new. Give us a definition of the new Scrapper playstyle.

[Nero.7369]

7 hours ago, raykor.6723 said:

So now let's just get rid of the Impact Savant trait entirely. Replace it with something new.

I don't see need for that, tinker at the percentage again and it's fine. 5% is maybe a bit low right now and 15 clearly to high, but 7-8% could be a sweat spot.

[Howluffu.7259]

1 hour ago, NeroBoron.7285 said:

I don't see need for that, tinker at the percentage again and it's fine. 5% is maybe a bit low right now and 15 clearly to high, but 7-8% could be a sweat spot.

Rise it to 10%

[raykor.6723]

A 33% reduction would have been significant; 66% was crazy.

[tetmikem.5608]

So I was initially not that bothered by the change.  But now having played it more, I'm definitely not a fan.  While it isn't a *big* deal in open world, it is starting to get irksome in PVE.  I guess they just don't want Scrapper to have a decent DPS option cause my reduced survivability makes me move off the boss a lot more, which reduced DPS.  

 

Also, and I know this isn't intended gameplay but still..... I was Soloing T1 Urban Battleground and after wiping on the final boss at least 10 times as a DPS Scrapper (trying a variety of traits and gear options, and with a decent amount of experience and skill playing scrapper) I ended up just having to play Heal quick and I healed the NPCs while they killed the boss for me.  /sigh

Edited March 16, 2022 by tetmikem.5608

[Skalpadda.6087]

It still works as well as ever against normal mobs, but even in open world it feels bad against anything that actually packs a punch. I'm having to spend way too much time dodging and moving away from my target just to stay alive and we still have to spam a bunch of non-damaging skills for quickness, so between the two there's a lot less time when you're able to DPS. It makes everything feel slow and cumbersome and of course you get even less barrier in the situations where you actually need it, making the nerf even harsher.

 

It's no longer a fun spec for me in solo PvE and since that's pretty much all I used my Engineer for I guess she's getting shelved.

[Hpez.2908]

They're adamant on maintaining the 5% number on "healing" traits since they just nerfed Untammed strike heals from 10% to 5%. The issue with Impact Savant is that you also take a vitality hit on the trait and barrier only lasts for a few seconds. 5% straight healing is better than 5% barrier generation.

[Wiggely.7320]

the least they should do is remove the vitality penalty.
5% seems low, 15% appeared to be a lot, it was mentioned in every non-support scrapper build as the reason you wouldn't die (and could skip other defenses).

 

But no: the vitality reduction is no longer justified I think.

[Stx.4857]

Scrapper pre nerf basically could build full glass cannon and have decent damage and decent survivability.  

 

Post nerf, if you build full glass cannon you can still do decent damage but you won't have any survivability.  Or you can build defensive to make up for the nerf, and deal pathetic damage.

 

Or you can respec to mechanist, which has better survivability than pre nerf Scrapper, while also dealing more damage!

 

A-net logic.