this went about as poorly as expected

[Lynx.9058]

> Anet releases expansion with a bunch of buggy, clunky e-specs that don't work in the established meta

> They ignore literally all feedback from two beta tests regarding any of these issues, and push the expansion without any changes to the specs

> Everyone gets angry about the new specs not being any good

> They nerf all the old specs to "encourage" using the new specs -_-

[Skyroar.2974]

The old specs needed to be nerfed.

But the new ones do feel rushed and unpolished. I'm actually shocked we haven't seen a large change list between beta 4 and release. You can tell how Anet is having some difficulties with development just based on this.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Skyroar.2974

[Gorem.8104]

it is interesting just because they said after six months from the beta's, there would be SIGNIFICANT changes. 
So maybe we still waiting on them? That's the hope 

[otto.5684]

1 hour ago, Lynx.9058 said:

> Anet releases expansion with a bunch of buggy, clunky e-specs that don't work in the established meta

> They ignore literally all feedback from two beta tests regarding any of these issues, and push the expansion without any changes to the specs

> Everyone gets angry about the new specs not being any good

> They nerf all the old specs to "encourage" using the new specs -_-

I think people over exaggerating the nerfs in PvE. FB is pretty much the same. Ya, we lost aegis on short CD, but the uptime on quickness has not changed, while the access to protection vastly improved. Sure, aegis was better, but this has no impact on FBs viability. The battle scars, rev nerf, was a bit more steep. They nerfed and the healing by damage by 2/3. Still, not much impact to rev, aside lower survivability in open world.

 

As for the new elites… they are still in beta. I guess this beta 3? Ya… this is extremely disappointing.

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Lynx.9058 said:

> Anet releases expansion with a bunch of buggy, clunky e-specs that don't work in the established meta

> They ignore literally all feedback from two beta tests regarding any of these issues, and push the expansion without any changes to the specs

> Everyone gets angry about the new specs not being any good

> They nerf all the old specs to "encourage" using the new specs -_-

huh?

are we really saying Renegades Scourges and Firebrands nerfs are to "encourage using the new speccs". its amazing we screech for FOUR YEARS That these speccs need nerfing, yet the moment someone gets a agenda Its all of a sudden never been the case and for something else.

The speccs that were nerfed were brokenly Overpowered, that is just factual. they were nerfed because they needed to be nerfed. No other reason. Anet have been bluntly honest when they've stated intentions to REVERT POWER CREEP several times over

why would they BUFF EoDs elite to REVERSE power creep lol, its pretty obvious they intend to drive Elites closer to their Core Counterparts balance wise, which means both HoT and PoF proffessions need to move downwards. the absolute Joke is the fact u think these nerfs "Encourage using the new speccs"

Condi Ren. is still 5 man Alacrity. its Still doing 37k DPS. Its still stronger then vindicator.

Condi Scourge is Still Equal to condi Harbinger in a Pure DPS build.

Condi Firebrand is still a Mile ahead of Willbender and DH is a stronger power option.

your not only completely incorrect but its Disengious to even remotely state these nerfs in anyway shape or form actually "Encourge the use of new elite speccs".

Harbinger was always going to be Necros only avaliable option for 5 man Quickness before or after the nerfs.

Vindicator was always going to be the primary power option of Revenant.

and Willbenders Position was not getting any better with nerfing a Condi variant when stacking against a Power orintated specc.

[Mell.4873]

Sigh same day and same complaint about golem numbers. Let's just wait and see what they do, most PoF classes launched in a sorry state too. I mean I remember some stuff straight up didn't work like deadeye. 

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

it is interesting just because they said after six months from the beta's, there would be SIGNIFICANT changes. 
So maybe we still waiting on them? That's the hope 

Nice story, but would be better if it was true. I guess you missed the big changes they did make after the first beta?

[Gorem.8104]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Nice story, but would be better if it was true. I guess you missed the big changes they did make after the first beta?

Story? Its literally what Anet said, "We didn't have enough time before the second beta to change as much as we wanted" 

[Carnifex.3275]

5 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

I think people over exaggerating the nerfs in PvE. FB is pretty much the same. Ya, we lost aegis on short CD, but the uptime on quickness has not changed, while the access to protection vastly improved. Sure, aegis was better, but this has no impact on FBs viability. The battle scars, rev nerf, was a bit more steep. They nerfed and the healing by damage by 2/3. Still, not much impact to rev, aside lower survivability in open world.

 

As for the new elites… they are still in beta. I guess this beta 3? Ya… this is extremely disappointing.

Quickness didn't change? Aren't you forgetting how traits synergize? Stalwart Speed to be exact. That's the issue with anet also, before nerfing they don't really think how it will impact traits.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Dave.6819

[Avatara.1042]

10 minutes ago, Dave.6819 said:

Quickness didn't change? Aren't you forgetting how traits synergize? Stalwart Speed to be exact. That's the issue with anet also, before nerfing they don't really think how it will impact traits.

That was actually the main point of the nerf...

[Astralporing.1957]

6 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

it is interesting just because they said after six months from the beta's, there would be SIGNIFICANT changes. 
So maybe we still waiting on them? That's the hope 

You mean that if the people won't move en masse to new especs, they will keep nerfing old ones even more?

[Puck.3697]

44 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

You mean that if the people won't move en masse to new especs, they will keep nerfing old ones even more?

Nah, Anet are reversing power creep so they will nerf lots of things, the whole conspiracy of "they're doing it to make new especcs look better" isn't true and I wouldn't buy into it. 

During HoT and PoF they power crept the game massively. They've now decided they don't want that power creep and tbh have stated this for longer then we have even known about the new elites existed. 

They ironically stated this want before the expansion was officially announced. 

They're just fixing things that shoulda Never made it past their betas back In PoF realistically 

[tAzz.8497]

Nice life lesson, STOP preordering stuff, you might get a big chunk of trash.

 

Log in for the new xpack and guess what ?? feels like nothing happened. Not even an email, a direction nothing.

Uh oh some new story to start in the Hero panel, that's it. But meh we have fishing now and some new pet asian style bloatware

Go and load Seitung Province and you feel like Lake Doric v2. Some odd graphics, shutters all day long, some mobs spread around.

Went for a run on the map, with the zerg video settings and it is a pain to watch. Now go run some metas with 50 ppl and there we have another 5fps map .

 

Power creep or not some classes just keep getting the short sticks. 

Now lets go back to that condi meta .... 1st day trying a condi firebrand and 30k on arcdps in T4's . Much skill much wow, rotation ? whats that ?

Out of the 3 kittens we have only rev got some hits, necro and firebrand are just fine like before and will be camped by all.

 

Same old ANet ways, why would you even expect anything else .

 

[Fastjack.2704]

problem is:

People are comparing open world solo with raid situation.

Rev may still be good in fractal and raid, but solo he lost a big part of it's use

 

[ScottBroChill.3254]

It was just bad timing of how they did it all, but the nerfing was absolutely necessary. The game was becoming a cakewalk and you barely needed to pay attention to mechanics because of it. But psychologically this feels bad because I think we are all pre-exposed to getting overpowered things in new expansions not just in this game, but in every game to ever exist. To get the opposite of that, it makes it hard to really assess the new specs when everythihng feels weaker in general. I'm interest on where the balance will go the rest of the year. My hope is that they keep on fine tuning  core traitlines for the majority of classes that have weak cores to provide more build options for every espec. 

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Fastjack.2704 said:

problem is:

People are comparing open world solo with raid situation.

Rev may still be good in fractal and raid, but solo he lost a big part of it's use

 

Someone needs to explain this because what past did they lose? Good in fractals, good in raids (strikes) ... and good in OW PVE as well. so ?

[Lynx.9058]

13 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

huh?

are we really saying Renegades Scourges and Firebrands nerfs are to "encourage using the new speccs". its amazing we screech for FOUR YEARS That these speccs need nerfing, yet the moment someone gets a agenda Its all of a sudden never been the case and for something else.

The speccs that were nerfed were brokenly Overpowered, that is just factual. they were nerfed because they needed to be nerfed. No other reason. Anet have been bluntly honest when they've stated intentions to REVERT POWER CREEP several times over

why would they BUFF EoDs elite to REVERSE power creep lol, its pretty obvious they intend to drive Elites closer to their Core Counterparts balance wise, which means both HoT and PoF proffessions need to move downwards. the absolute Joke is the fact u think these nerfs "Encourage using the new speccs"

Condi Ren. is still 5 man Alacrity. its Still doing 37k DPS. Its still stronger then vindicator.

Condi Scourge is Still Equal to condi Harbinger in a Pure DPS build.

Condi Firebrand is still a Mile ahead of Willbender and DH is a stronger power option.

your not only completely incorrect but its Disengious to even remotely state these nerfs in anyway shape or form actually "Encourge the use of new elite speccs".

Harbinger was always going to be Necros only avaliable option for 5 man Quickness before or after the nerfs.

Vindicator was always going to be the primary power option of Revenant.

and Willbenders Position was not getting any better with nerfing a Condi variant when stacking against a Power orintated specc.

I like how you completely leave out scrapper's core trait getting nerfed, just because you want to rant about how some other specs you don't like mightve been a little too good.

[Puck.3697]

13 minutes ago, Lynx.9058 said:

I like how you completely leave out scrapper's core trait getting nerfed, just because you want to rant about how some other specs you don't like mightve been a little too good.

"Alittle too good". over 87% of fractal runs Consist of 2x Scourge 2x Firebrand 1x Renegade and we're saying "alittle toogood". your either not good enough at the game to realistically understand why this is broken or intentionally under balling it to try make a point.

All Sustain traits got nerfed. and before u say "because little bot to sell expansion" you dont need the expansion to have a little bot, it didnt profit them ina slightest in selling EoD making it this way, its Simple. Game had too much Sustain. Sustain got culled.

Just like Rune of Torment and Battle scars, because Open world power creep is Still bad lol, GW2 has 0 Premise to power creep their game. No level movement, no gear movement. this means HoT Raids are as Relevant as EoD Strikes, so yes they can balance their current content around New Features like barrier, however they dont go back and rebalance Old content which is still rewarding Top tier Armour.

I've seen you before in threads underballing things.. Like when u tried to say People screeching to have a 40-50k DPS Dodge+Auto attack build were out of order.

Im sorry. but statistics Dont lie. the fact over 87% Of the Raiding / Fractal Players Rerolled to 3 very Specific Speccs shows alittle more then a "slight imbalancement"

People just like to slant Arguments falsely and push this idea Anets Reasoning given is a outright "lie" for some weird reason, Anet made it very clear they intended to revert on the Power creep thats entered into the game.

that includes

- DPS Speccs over doing over 40k DPS.

- Barriers Introduction.

- Boon Introduction

- Utility bloating.

- Overlapping Abilities.

- Low Telegraphed attacks.

Why?

Because these were all power creeps introduced to the game overtime, Boons were never 100% uptime orginally. Barrier did not exist orginally, Alacrity did not exist orginally, Abilities didnt do 5 different things orginally, Casrting several attacks in the same GCD didnt exist and Abilities were far more telegraphed.

Anet made it clear from the very start, reverting power creep was a priority here. they've stated it Multitudes of times throughout Interviews, to Posts to Streams that they feel the Power creep that happened in HoT and PoF Damaged the game.

The reason they said "To give EoD Speccs room to breathe" is Because EoD Speccs are the first speccs on the scene under the new balancing, current Elites and Core Speccs got Delayed til summer effectively, so they dealt with the worst of it upfront and then to return later on.

People are honestly acting as if ur seriously going to take These speccs over the existing choices.

u tthink Willbenders gonna be taken over firebrand even with the nerfs? LOL No.

u think Vindicators gonna be taken over Renegade? LOL No.

Harbingers the only real existing potiental. and thats primarily because its a boon specc and Necro has no other option for those.