Virtuoso was designed for people who hate Mesmer and was designed by people who hate Mesmer.

[Levetty.1279]

4 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

And leave all the complaining players who don't even like the new elites not likely. 

At least you are admitting you are a troll who doesn't play the class.

38 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I ment the inspection heal, but it is easier to build blades since they don't disappear between enemies so over the duration of an entire fight you will shatter more often. The alacrity can be applied by other players if you didn't know so that is a non-point. 

This is exactly why they top party dps currently in the open world.

And I already told you why that isn't the case but you ignore it because you have no answer.

[Levetty.1279]

Double post.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Levetty.1279

[Nephalem.8921]

33 minutes ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Virtuoso only deals more damage if the target is large, so dagger skills2 and 3 trigger several times on them.

Also Chrono benefits more from having alacrity, that is what I meant. Alacrity reduces skill recharge by 25%, but it can become 50% on Chrono, meaning a skill like Greatsword 4 has a 6 second cooldown on Chrono, and greatsword 2 has 2.5 second cooldown. The clone creation is extremely fast. The fact that they die after each target is not an issue for Chrono, and Mirage doesn't even want to shatter much, unless it's possible to replace them immediately.

Virtuoso has almost the same number on small and big hitbox now. dagger 2 isnt hitbox dependant and dagger 3 functionality slightly changed.

Virtuoso makes mes playable in fractals. it adds burst. chrono cant burst unless you call a 12sec spike burst. both builds have similar dps potential but virt doesnt require slow which is a huge +.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[Salt Mode.3780]

25 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Virtuoso has almost the same number on small and big hitbox now. dagger 2 isnt hitbox dependant and dagger 3 functionality slightly changed.

Virtuoso makes mes playable in fractals. it adds burst. chrono cant burst unless you call a 12sec spike burst. both builds have similar dps potential but virt doesnt require slow which is a huge +.

Yea but you are also forgetting virtuoso doesnt bring anything, both dps are similar yet chrono pumps boons, again why would i want a Virtuoso when i can get a chrono...

[Nezekan.2671]

30 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Virtuoso has almost the same number on small and big hitbox now. dagger 2 isnt hitbox dependant and dagger 3 functionality slightly changed.

Virtuoso makes mes playable in fractals. it adds burst. chrono cant burst unless you call a 12sec spike burst. both builds have similar dps potential but virt doesnt require slow which is a huge +.

Mesmer was already playable in fractals. Alacrity mirage might struggle when there are a lot of mobs that die quickly before condition damage can ramp up, but against single high hp bosses, which there are quite a bit in fractals, it deals more damage than alacrity renegade. So it can easily replace alacrity renegade if you want. It also has 70%+- dodge uptime, so very safe to play.

Virtuoso damage is just fine. If it is going to be pure dps with no support however, it needs to deal more damage.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Nezekan.2671

[Nephalem.8921]

3 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Yea but you are also forgetting virtuoso doesnt bring anything, both dps are similar yet chrono pumps boons, again why would i want a Virtuoso when i can get a chrono...

Dps chrono brings no boons either. The dps boon version is more than 10k dps behind virt.

3 hours ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Mesmer was already playable in fractals. Alacrity mirage might struggle when there are a lot of mobs that die quickly before condition damage can ramp up, but against single high hp bosses, which there are quite a bit in fractals, it deals more damage than alacrity renegade. So it can easily replace alacrity renegade if you want. It also has 70%+- dodge uptime, so very safe to play.

Virtuoso damage is just fine. If it is going to be pure dps with no support however, it needs to deal more damage.

No it doesnt do more than alac ren except on 100 but that is because staff mirage is ranged and ren isnt. 99% of rens just cant play but thats another issue. The only power build being ahead of virt is cata. cata does a bit too much though.

alac mirage is borderline useless in high dps groups and chrono is playable but lacks quick burst. alac mirage has 0 fast cleave. it slows down trash a lot. its 4manning in some cases.

[Nezekan.2671]

1 hour ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Dps chrono brings no boons either. The dps boon version is more than 10k dps behind virt.

No it doesnt do more than alac ren except on 100 but that is because staff mirage is ranged and ren isnt. 99% of rens just cant play but thats another issue. The only power build being ahead of virt is cata. cata does a bit too much though.

alac mirage is borderline useless in high dps groups and chrono is playable but lacks quick burst. alac mirage has 0 fast cleave. it slows down trash a lot. its 4manning in some cases.

That has not been my experience at all. Alacrity Mirage does not need any boon duration gear to provide alacrity and might,. You can be full viper and only need food and enhancement to have 100% uptime. It deals 2k less damage than full dps oriented mirage, whereas alacrity ren needs quite a bit of boon duration. Alacrity mirage simply has more dps than alacrity ren on long single target fights, melee or ranged and it can ignore mechanics and stand and continue providing the buffs.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Nezekan.2671

[rune.9572]

Just dropping in here to say I love all kinds of mesmer and I love virtuoso, it's so stupidly fun to just rekt everything with aoe for a change 😹 haha balde go WRRRRRR

[Moradorin.6217]

I just wanted to quickly come by and remind anyone in doubt of the OPs accusations that after I simply posted a link to a Shorts Video in which Shorts himself (he is considered a leet Mesmer) said that compared to chono and core Mesmer that Mirage is lacking in pvp/wvw specifically due to its lack of Dodge. So even though he is well known to have been in favor of the one dodge nerf and everything else that killed Mirage especially condi Mirage was from a guy who himself says Mirage is too weak with one dodge, but he is clearly affraid to admit that openly.

After linking the video and quoting him the next day the video was GONE from youtube and is now PRIVATE only. This is a video of a streamer put out to show off a chrono build and is from his own stream. Apparently someone is affraid of that video. To me that is clear evidence of hincky deceitful Mirage hate conspiracy.

The fact is Anet consults people who are invested in specific play styles. Those "consultants" manipulate perception via twitter, discord, twitch, meetings with Anet to maintain advantage for the builds and play styles they favor and, in this case, the consultant(s) didnt like playing against Mirage.

 

Dont take my word on this thought. Look for yourself!

 

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[psi.9304]

You can really tell that Anet does not care for Mesmer we still have glamour skills when there no glamour trait line since it was removed during the very being of  Guild Wars 2.

[Xaylin.1860]

26 minutes ago, psi.9304 said:

You can really tell that Anet does not care for Mesmer we still have glamour skills when there no glamour trait line since it was removed during the very being of  Guild Wars 2.

I wouldn't go that far just based on that one fact. Even though it is disappointing. However, it does show that they don't think that working on Glamours would have any reaosnable pay off. They still somewhat work well even without a trait. 

 

What Mesmer needs is an overall trait rework when it comes to Utility traits. Not just Glamours. Maybe ANet even needs to shuffle around some effects among skill groups. Because it just doesn't make sense for 1 single traitline to be home of 3 Utility traits. 4 if you count Mental Defense. It's just weird.

 

 

[psi.9304]

1 hour ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

I wouldn't go that far just based on that one fact. Even though it is disappointing. However, it does show that they don't think that working on Glamours would have any reaosnable pay off. They still somewhat work well even without a trait. 

 

What Mesmer needs is an overall trait rework when it comes to Utility traits. Not just Glamours. Maybe ANet even needs to shuffle around some effects among skill groups. Because it just doesn't make sense for 1 single traitline to be home of 3 Utility traits. 4 if you count Mental Defense. It's just weird.

 

 

I agree with rework of how traits work and I would go even further with how we provide boons, the other classes can provide boons better then Mesmer. With this new spec we provide nothing and is very selfish dps class, I would be fine with this but we need the damage to do it, it just lacks overall damage. I'm not an expect but I want Mesmer to be balance but can be on par with the other classes.

[Mell.4873]

14 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

At least you are admitting you are a troll who doesn't play the class.

And I already told you why that isn't the case but you ignore it because you have no answer.

Shatter cooldowns? Every Mesmer has those its the blade stocking that heals you, did you read my post?

[Mell.4873]

14 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Yea but you are also forgetting virtuoso doesnt bring anything, both dps are similar yet chrono pumps boons, again why would i want a Virtuoso when i can get a chrono...

I have never seen anyone ever bring chrono to fractals for dps. It to slow and clunky, with long rotations. The best I can say is I have played a chrono healer, who can provide quickness but i have all harriers gear so not exactly a dps.

Virtuoso has way more potential in fractals especially on the lower levels where power is more important but outside that I only use mirage since it has the most conditions damage.

[Salt Mode.3780]

17 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I have never seen anyone ever bring chrono to fractals for dps. It to slow and clunky, with long rotations. The best I can say is I have played a chrono healer, who can provide quickness but i have all harriers gear so not exactly a dps.

Virtuoso has way more potential in fractals especially on the lower levels where power is more important but outside that I only use mirage since it has the most conditions damage.

I wouldnt bring Virtuoso or Chrono in fractals because there are other classes that can speed run the place much more efficiently. Compared to Chrono and Virtuoso if i had to pick one for sure id be bringing chrono over Virtuoso. Even fighting trash mobs Virtuoso has no real AoE compared to Chrono. Peirce doesnt mean AoE.

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I wouldnt bring Virtuoso or Chrono in fractals because there are other classes that can speed run the place much more efficiently. Compared to Chrono and Virtuoso if i had to pick one for sure id be bringing chrono over Virtuoso. Even fighting trash mobs Virtuoso has no real AoE compared to Chrono. Peirce doesnt mean AoE.

Okay well I main mesmer so I will bring mirage the virtuoso. Barely any fights even need aoe, most just group trash up and cleave. 

[Ketharius.9018]

1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

Okay well I main mesmer so I will bring mirage the virtuoso. Barely any fights even need aoe, most just group trash up and cleave. 

wtf do you think AoE means??? You really are a troll that doesn't understand this game and especially not Mesmer.

[Veprovina.4876]

Double post.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Veprovina.4876

[Veprovina.4876]

1 hour ago, Ketharius.9018 said:

wtf do you think AoE means??? You really are a troll that doesn't understand this game and especially not Mesmer.

What was your first clue?

[Nephalem.8921]

6 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I wouldnt bring Virtuoso or Chrono in fractals because there are other classes that can speed run the place much more efficiently. Compared to Chrono and Virtuoso if i had to pick one for sure id be bringing chrono over Virtuoso. Even fighting trash mobs Virtuoso has no real AoE compared to Chrono. Peirce doesnt mean AoE.

Ok how many cm clears do you have? Why would you bring chrono over virtu? you can speedrun just fine on virt and it is a top dps build with burst. Blade rain is aoe, elite is aoe and you still have focus pull. dagger skills have baseline piercing.

Unlike you i played it in fractals and it did very well there. virtu for fast encounters and heavy burstbosses like arkk and mirage for long ones.

The only issue virtu has in fracs is 100% exposed being busted for condi but all power builds have to deal with this. Its actually very good in speedruns thanks to mimic blink.

Im convinced half the people here havent really played it in pve. maybe its bad in pvp but in pve, especially instanced pve its really good.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[Salt Mode.3780]

39 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Ok how many cm clears do you have? Why would you bring chrono over virtu? you can speedrun just fine on virt and it is a top dps build with burst. Blade rain is aoe, elite is aoe and you still have focus pull. dagger skills have baseline piercing.

Unlike you i played it in fractals and it did very well there. virtu for fast encounters and heavy burstbosses like arkk and mirage for long ones.

The only issue virtu has in fracs is 100% exposed being busted for condi but all power builds have to deal with this. Its actually very good in speedruns thanks to mimic blink.

Im convinced half the people here havent really played it in pve. maybe its bad in pvp but in pve, especially instanced pve its really good.

I got the title No Heroes Left Behind when it was first introduced into the game so yes I know how "difficult" 100 cm is. Truth be told none of the PvE content in this game is "difficult" in the slightest because of how the game was designed around PvP combat. Being able to dodge twice is already a reason why content is easier then most PvE in any other MMOs let alone class design. Like people being able to 2 man raid bosses or even solo champions in open world.

So sorry to say the only thing that is "difficult" in this game is going into WvW or sPvP and suddenly u have to fight 2-3 people outnumbered, and even then its not too difficult considering player quality went down hill on bad class designs. 

Fact that there are people in forums asking about the importance of combo fields already separates the players who played in core days vs newer players who play classes that has everything given to them with a button. 

PvE is not a indication of skill level rather what easy build or class can I take to faceroll boss mechanics, thats why there is a "meta" in PvE.

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Ketharius.9018 said:

wtf do you think AoE means??? You really are a troll that doesn't understand this game and especially not Mesmer.

Cleave is not an aoe its a cone attack, much like F2 on Virtuoso.

[Salt Mode.3780]

6 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Cleave is not an aoe its a cone attack, much like F2 on Virtuoso.

What are you talking about cone is considering an AREA within a degree angle in front of you vs piercing where targets have to be lined up in your line of attack in order for it to hit multiple targets. There is no condition for coned attacks to do so. This already shows the lack of knowledge you have in this game. 

[Mell.4873]

53 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Ok how many cm clears do you have? Why would you bring chrono over virtu? you can speedrun just fine on virt and it is a top dps build with burst. Blade rain is aoe, elite is aoe and you still have focus pull. dagger skills have baseline piercing.

Unlike you i played it in fractals and it did very well there. virtu for fast encounters and heavy burstbosses like arkk and mirage for long ones.

The only issue virtu has in fracs is 100% exposed being busted for condi but all power builds have to deal with this. Its actually very good in speedruns thanks to mimic blink.

Im convinced half the people here havent really played it in pve. maybe its bad in pvp but in pve, especially instanced pve its really good.

Good breakdown, Virtuoso is amazing if you have the correct team even with exposed issue.

[Mell.4873]

4 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

What are you talking about cone is considering an AREA within a degree angle in front of you vs piercing where targets have to be lined up in your line of attack in order for it to hit multiple targets. There is no condition for coned attacks to do so. This already shows the lack of knowledge you have in this game. 

Melee attacks are in cone, that's how fractals are done. Group them up and cleave through with melee attacks?? I'm confused why this is an issue, piercing attacks would also provide the same benefit a cleave would to.

I'm super lost with this whole conversation, I mean this is why I run Temporal Curtain on Chrono and especially Virtuoso. group up and cleave or in this case pierce through them.