Anet thinks that Virtuoso doesn't summon Phantasms.

[Levetty.1279]

Literally one of the first NPCs I talked to in the expansion. Outright tells me that Virtuoso doesn't summon Phantasms

 

https://imgur.com/Rz5xiLU

 

[Veprovina.4876]

Yeah, noticed that too. But what do you expect out of Anet?

Whoever designed Virtuoso never had any idea about Mesmers in the first place, this honestly deosn't surprise me.

 

But yes, it should be changed to clones, they DO summon phantasms.

[Zenith.7301]

I'm a vindicator and the vindicator NPC in dialogue talks to me as if I wasn't even a revenant, some clueless other class instead.

[Skyroar.2974]

Fun fact: the Virtuoso NPC is dual-wielding daggers.

[Alpha.1308]

this thread is a trainwreck of information 

how do people get paid to come up with this

and how does anyone actually greenlight this into alpha tests, let alone into beta tests when the community screeches about how awful it is, then continue this into launch 

it really just gets more and more pathetic 

give someone who has any remote amount of respect for actual gamers who actually play games the reins please

Edited March 3, 2022 by Alpha.1308

[Veprovina.4876]

3 hours ago, Alpha.1308 said:

how do people get paid to come up with this

Maybe busy filling quotas instead of hiring talent. Maybe nepotism? Bribery to hire someone's kid? Who knows.

3 hours ago, Alpha.1308 said:

and how does anyone actually greenlight this into alpha tests, let alone into beta tests when the community screeches about how awful it is, then continue this into launch 

it really just gets more and more pathetic

I'm not sure this expansion had an alpha or beta test outside of Anet. If it had, they'd have fixed the metas by now. The one i did today, with the Mole Scrapper boss, fizzed out and the "solution" is that they made meta continue if it detects it bugged out. Instead of actually fixing it. Hilarious! I also hear the entire snowcrows team couldn't beat the last map meta. I'm not there yet myself.

Had they done a proper beta test and not a carefully selected showcases to youtubers, a lot of the bugs, oversights and overtuned metas like this would have been avoided.

3 hours ago, Alpha.1308 said:

give someone who has any remote amount of respect for actual gamers who actually play games the reins please

But thats haaaaarrrrdddddddddd and requires woooorrrkkk. 😭

I wanna browse instagram and post on twitter, not research the lore of the game i'm hired to write for!!!!

 

To be fair, oversights do happen, who knows who did what part of the writing, probably work got divided to people who didn't talk to each other or had just a quick brief on what they have to do... Who knows.

 

The point is - this can still be fixed, they can patch up dialogue of non speaking NPCs pretty easily. 

A few people need to report this as a bug in game though. Idk if Anet reads the forums. Especially not Mesmer forums.

[Tiw.2756]

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Had they done a proper beta test and not a carefully selected showcases to youtubers, a lot of the bugs, oversights and overtuned metas like this would have been avoided.

How do you know this? You recognize they probably did find and fix at least some bugs, oversights, and overtunes right? So they had some rate of fixes already. You know that finding a bug isn't the same as fixing it right? Developer time costs a lot and is in pretty short supply if you want them to be good. Fixing a bug as soon as you find it is almost never the most efficient way to handle things. Developers aren't just sitting around with nothing to do which means they can't just jump on to whatever latest issue is raised without disrupting what they were already working on.

 

No, instead when a bug gets raised either internally or reported by customers it gets roughly investigated, logged in a bug tracking system, assigned a team, assigned a priority, and only if it's enough of a show stopper to critically break things will it be started on that day. During normal cadence, any non-critical bug will at earliest not be picked up until the next "sprint", or repeated 2 week session (assuming common Agile practices), so it normally sits a number of days at least before anyone looks at it again because once again, there's only so many devs and they're already working on something.

 

Once the code has been changed then you get to go through testing, validation, building (packaging the code together into a releasable format), and distribution. Some of that is automated based on the company, but "automated" still doesn't mean it all happens in the flash of an eye. Your simple fix that you add to the codebase can end up clashing with another simple fix that someone else adds to the codebase on the same day and set one or both of you back some time.

 

Considering how lengthy and expensive of a process it ultimately is, the fact that ANet has been pushing out patches pretty frequently since EoD launch makes me think they had a long list of bugs already logged in their system ready to go on release date. So they had bugs to work on, they were working on bugs, they have been pushing out fixes for bugs, how can you actually know they would have done so any faster if they had done things differently?

[Levetty.1279]

3 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

To be fair, oversights do happen, who knows who did what part of the writing, probably work got divided to people who didn't talk to each other or had just a quick brief on what they have to do... Who knows.

"Virtuoso is a shatter focused power spec"

Virtuoso dagger and gloves only let you pick stats with condition damage and not even ones with precision to so you can trigger the trait that Virtuoso condition damage is based around.

This NPC getting the mechanics of the elite spec completely wrong.

Still no elite spec mechanic for the elite spec.

 

These 'oversights' are adding up.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

2 hours ago, Tiw.2756 said:

How do you know this? You recognize they probably did find and fix at least some bugs, oversights, and overtunes right? So they had some rate of fixes already. You know that finding a bug isn't the same as fixing it right? Developer time costs a lot and is in pretty short supply if you want them to be good. Fixing a bug as soon as you find it is almost never the most efficient way to handle things. Developers aren't just sitting around with nothing to do which means they can't just jump on to whatever latest issue is raised without disrupting what they were already working on.

 

No, instead when a bug gets raised either internally or reported by customers it gets roughly investigated, logged in a bug tracking system, assigned a team, assigned a priority, and only if it's enough of a show stopper to critically break things will it be started on that day. During normal cadence, any non-critical bug will at earliest not be picked up until the next "sprint", or repeated 2 week session (assuming common Agile practices), so it normally sits a number of days at least before anyone looks at it again because once again, there's only so many devs and they're already working on something.

 

Once the code has been changed then you get to go through testing, validation, building (packaging the code together into a releasable format), and distribution. Some of that is automated based on the company, but "automated" still doesn't mean it all happens in the flash of an eye. Your simple fix that you add to the codebase can end up clashing with another simple fix that someone else adds to the codebase on the same day and set one or both of you back some time.

 

Considering how lengthy and expensive of a process it ultimately is, the fact that ANet has been pushing out patches pretty frequently since EoD launch makes me think they had a long list of bugs already logged in their system ready to go on release date. So they had bugs to work on, they were working on bugs, they have been pushing out fixes for bugs, how can you actually know they would have done so any faster if they had done things differently?

 Lmao nice try, undercover Dev.

[Veprovina.4876]

7 hours ago, Tiw.2756 said:

How do you know this? You recognize they probably did find and fix at least some bugs, oversights, and overtunes right? So they had some rate of fixes already. You know that finding a bug isn't the same as fixing it right? Developer time costs a lot and is in pretty short supply if you want them to be good. Fixing a bug as soon as you find it is almost never the most efficient way to handle things. Developers aren't just sitting around with nothing to do which means they can't just jump on to whatever latest issue is raised without disrupting what they were already working on.

 

No, instead when a bug gets raised either internally or reported by customers it gets roughly investigated, logged in a bug tracking system, assigned a team, assigned a priority, and only if it's enough of a show stopper to critically break things will it be started on that day. During normal cadence, any non-critical bug will at earliest not be picked up until the next "sprint", or repeated 2 week session (assuming common Agile practices), so it normally sits a number of days at least before anyone looks at it again because once again, there's only so many devs and they're already working on something.

 

Once the code has been changed then you get to go through testing, validation, building (packaging the code together into a releasable format), and distribution. Some of that is automated based on the company, but "automated" still doesn't mean it all happens in the flash of an eye. Your simple fix that you add to the codebase can end up clashing with another simple fix that someone else adds to the codebase on the same day and set one or both of you back some time.

 

Considering how lengthy and expensive of a process it ultimately is, the fact that ANet has been pushing out patches pretty frequently since EoD launch makes me think they had a long list of bugs already logged in their system ready to go on release date. So they had bugs to work on, they were working on bugs, they have been pushing out fixes for bugs, how can you actually know they would have done so any faster if they had done things differently?

Did i strike a personal nerve there? Did you work on the team that did this?

How do i know this? I'm playing the game, the "oversights" as Levetty puts it - are adding up.

 

It's almost as if Anet didn't put too much thought into Mesmers at all, let alone put effort into creating its elite spec and the lore sorrounding it like they did with others. 

 

Also:

8 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

To be fair, oversights do happen, who knows who did what part of the writing, probably work got divided to people who didn't talk to each other or had just a quick brief on what they have to do... Who knows.

 

The point is - this can still be fixed, they can patch up dialogue of non speaking NPCs pretty easily. 

A few people need to report this as a bug in game though. Idk if Anet reads the forums. Especially not Mesmer forums.

Thank you for quoting just a part of what i said, that's totally fair and not toxic at all! 👍

I literally said, although brief, what you were now ranting about, is your attention span so low that you didn't even read my short post?

 

4 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

"Virtuoso is a shatter focused power spec"

Virtuoso dagger and gloves only let you pick stats with condition damage and not even ones with precision to so you can trigger the trait that Virtuoso condition damage is based around.

This NPC getting the mechanics of the elite spec completely wrong.

Still no elite spec mechanic for the elite spec.

 

These 'oversights' are adding up.

Yeah, i didn't want to say anything but, yeah... It's like Anet doesn't care about mesmers... 🙄 (spoiler: they don't)

Or maybe they actively hate mesmers? Who knows...

 

But yeah, this was hilarious. Like, i get it, you wanna promote your new stat combos, but ritualist? really? I tought they were gonna have Dragon on it... Imagine my surprise.

 

So, since that exotic dagger i got - albeit pretty - was also pretty useless for a power shatter build, i had to get another. Waste of an item. And i did try condi, it's just not, idk... Maybe it would work but like you said, promoting it as power shatter spec, and giving only condi options on it? Like, what?

[Tiw.2756]

5 hours ago, Obliviscaris.6937 said:

Lmao nice try, undercover Dev.

Haha. Dev yes, games dev no. Games development doesn't pay anywhere near enough considering what those folks have to deal with in addition to the normal problems of development.

34 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Did i strike a personal nerve there?

Possibly. I know I shouldn't be at this point, but I'm still surprised by the massive proliferation of armchair experts online. I'm not attempting to roast you here just stating the basics of software development since so many gamers get it so wrong. You playing the game gives you zero insight in to the actual workings of large scale software development and even if you did know the basics of you, you can't reliably state that any given intervention would have made a difference in squashing bugs if you don't even know what the current rate of bug squashes actually is.

[Veprovina.4876]

5 minutes ago, Tiw.2756 said:

Haha. Dev yes, games dev no. Games development doesn't pay anywhere near enough considering what those folks have to deal with in addition to the normal problems of development.

Possibly. I know I shouldn't be at this point, but I'm still surprised by the massive proliferation of armchair experts online. I'm not attempting to roast you here just stating the basics of software development since so many gamers get it so wrong. You playing the game gives you zero insight in to the actual workings of large scale software development and even if you did know the basics of you, you can't reliably state that any given intervention would have made a difference in squashing bugs if you don't even know what the current rate of bug squashes actually is.

Not attempting to roast while you roast anyway? 

 

Again:

 

9 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

To be fair, oversights do happen, who knows who did what part of the writing, probably work got divided to people who didn't talk to each other or had just a quick brief on what they have to do... Who knows.

 

The point is - this can still be fixed, they can patch up dialogue of non speaking NPCs pretty easily. 

A few people need to report this as a bug in game though. Idk if Anet reads the forums. Especially not Mesmer forums.

 

Go "roast" and harass someone else, i literally never said i'm an expert, and i did give a fair "i don't know what could have happened" comment. 

[Yoci.2481]

Instead of writing that long reply you could have just get this fixed, right?

[OriOri.8724]

15 hours ago, Skyroar.2974 said:

Fun fact: the Virtuoso NPC is dual-wielding daggers.

Now that just stings Anet

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

13 hours ago, Tiw.2756 said:

How do you know this? You recognize they probably did find and fix at least some bugs, oversights, and overtunes right? So they had some rate of fixes already. You know that finding a bug isn't the same as fixing it right? Developer time costs a lot and is in pretty short supply if you want them to be good. Fixing a bug as soon as you find it is almost never the most efficient way to handle things. Developers aren't just sitting around with nothing to do which means they can't just jump on to whatever latest issue is raised without disrupting what they were already working on.

 

No, instead when a bug gets raised either internally or reported by customers it gets roughly investigated, logged in a bug tracking system, assigned a team, assigned a priority, and only if it's enough of a show stopper to critically break things will it be started on that day. During normal cadence, any non-critical bug will at earliest not be picked up until the next "sprint", or repeated 2 week session (assuming common Agile practices), so it normally sits a number of days at least before anyone looks at it again because once again, there's only so many devs and they're already working on something.

 

Once the code has been changed then you get to go through testing, validation, building (packaging the code together into a releasable format), and distribution. Some of that is automated based on the company, but "automated" still doesn't mean it all happens in the flash of an eye. Your simple fix that you add to the codebase can end up clashing with another simple fix that someone else adds to the codebase on the same day and set one or both of you back some time.

 

Considering how lengthy and expensive of a process it ultimately is, the fact that ANet has been pushing out patches pretty frequently since EoD launch makes me think they had a long list of bugs already logged in their system ready to go on release date. So they had bugs to work on, they were working on bugs, they have been pushing out fixes for bugs, how can you actually know they would have done so any faster if they had done things differently?

If you look at virtuoso they didn't fix any of the bugs since the last beta, so who tells you it's not the same everywhere?

[Moradorin.6217]

18 hours ago, Alpha.1308 said:

this thread is a trainwreck of information 

how do people get paid to come up with this

and how does anyone actually greenlight this into alpha tests, let alone into beta tests when the community screeches about how awful it is, then continue this into launch 

it really just gets more and more pathetic 

give someone who has any remote amount of respect for actual gamers who actually play games the reins please

Cause its Mesmer

[Moradorin.6217]

13 hours ago, Tiw.2756 said:

How do you know this? You recognize they probably did find and fix at least some bugs, oversights, and overtunes right? So they had some rate of fixes already. You know that finding a bug isn't the same as fixing it right? Developer time costs a lot and is in pretty short supply if you want them to be good. Fixing a bug as soon as you find it is almost never the most efficient way to handle things. Developers aren't just sitting around with nothing to do which means they can't just jump on to whatever latest issue is raised without disrupting what they were already working on.

 

No, instead when a bug gets raised either internally or reported by customers it gets roughly investigated, logged in a bug tracking system, assigned a team, assigned a priority, and only if it's enough of a show stopper to critically break things will it be started on that day. During normal cadence, any non-critical bug will at earliest not be picked up until the next "sprint", or repeated 2 week session (assuming common Agile practices), so it normally sits a number of days at least before anyone looks at it again because once again, there's only so many devs and they're already working on something.

 

Once the code has been changed then you get to go through testing, validation, building (packaging the code together into a releasable format), and distribution. Some of that is automated based on the company, but "automated" still doesn't mean it all happens in the flash of an eye. Your simple fix that you add to the codebase can end up clashing with another simple fix that someone else adds to the codebase on the same day and set one or both of you back some time.

 

Considering how lengthy and expensive of a process it ultimately is, the fact that ANet has been pushing out patches pretty frequently since EoD launch makes me think they had a long list of bugs already logged in their system ready to go on release date. So they had bugs to work on, they were working on bugs, they have been pushing out fixes for bugs, how can you actually know they would have done so any faster if they had done things differently?

That makes sense, but I think the Mesmer community is short on patience and for a good reason. Mirage and chrono got nerfed with the trade off concept that never actually panned out since things like Firebrand never got a valid tradeoff etc, etc. Mesmer has been bashed around. I never got the attention it needed after one dodge changes etc and it seems that was because of EoD coming out and that Vindicator seems like a double down on these mistakes. So what are people supposed to say and do??

 

In other words, the user perspection/mindset is that its all a few years over due already on release day. Like or not its the state many Mesmer are in.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[Obliviscaris.6937]

7 hours ago, Tiw.2756 said:

Haha. Dev yes, games dev no. Games development doesn't pay anywhere near enough considering what those folks have to deal with in addition to the normal problems of development.

 

You don't need to make excuses for them.
I work in iterative design (I mean I'd say iterative development, but all development should be iterative), and it's quite obvious that A-net are only fielding feedback from very narrow and specific streams (pun intended, IYKYK) / sources. Because this is what this has been all about from day 1.

The obscene amount of testing they did, with swaths of feedback remaining unaddressed, and I mean feedback on their official forums, is unacceptable. 

They're following the opposite of what the best practices of experience design are.

All the good that weird flex did you though.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Obliviscaris.6937

[Zenith.7301]

This xpac is just another WoW Shadowlands, where the devs discard the importance of class experience and class gameplay systems thinking players will be satisfied with just content.

 

Then they'll bleed players left and right because they refuse to realize that class gameplay balance and experience is the primary interface to the game a player has. Doesn't matter how much content you put out if the classes you play the content with feel awful to play.

[necromaniac.7629]

On 3/2/2022 at 9:09 PM, Skyroar.2974 said:

Fun fact: the Virtuoso NPC is dual-wielding daggers.

lmao WHATT??

[Veprovina.4876]

3 hours ago, necromaniac.7629 said:

lmao WHATT??

https://imgur.com/a/jvQnoqk

[Chrolo.8536]

On 3/3/2022 at 3:09 AM, Skyroar.2974 said:

Fun fact: the Virtuoso NPC is dual-wielding daggers.

 

At this point they are just putting salts into the mesmers wounds 😆

[Veprovina.4876]

Noxxi summed it up best during EoD espec beta days.

 

"I'm Carlos, a game developer."

Interviewer: "Says here you worked on Virtuoso too."

Carlos, a game developer: "Did i?"

 

Priceless! 🤣