Please bring back old Kessex Hills

[Kalendrack.7450]

Hi, 

 

French player here. I was thinking, since the strategy regarding maps and world events shifted after living world season 1 to a "time locked" style of maps, where events are tied to the story : could Anet please reset the maps used during S1 to their previous state ? I'm talking about outposts like Fort Salma, that makes no sense for new players who never experienced S1. 

 

The "new" maps could be accessible via instanced content once S1 is replayable (one can dream), or the player could choose between the two maps when entering (for Kessex Hills the "destroyed" version of the map could unlock once the player has completed the associated S1 mission ?)

 

I know it doesn't seem like a priority right now, but to me it's a matter of consistancy and player immersion. And I'd very much like that.

 

What are your thoughts on the matter ?

[Justine.6351]

Kessex Hills isn't in Cantha.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Pretty sure Fort Salma was changed in Living World Season Two. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fort_Salma#Notes

[Ashantara.8731]

Yes, I would love to have it set back to its original state, too.

I'm certain the occupants (by royal decree, of course! 😉) have had enough time to rebuild the region by now.

[Kalendrack.7450]

On 3/12/2022 at 5:08 PM, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Pretty sure Fort Salma was changed in Living World Season Two. 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fort_Salma#Notes

 

Yeah, I mixed the changes to the map and to some locations that happened during S2. 
I forgot S2 did that too with Fort Salma, Concordia and the Iron Marches : same issue here. 

[dusanyu.4057]

if it were to be rilled back i would like to see it when the toxic tower was still standing that map and the environment were just fun not to mention having to stomp downed enamies

[mercury ranique.2170]

maps have always been timelocked, unless stated otherwise.

In effect the map itself is not locked in time as a whole. Is is more that where you play and where you are i nte story, the map is locked in there and things are not as straight forward as assumed.

For example.
Queensdale is locked in time. Just after the attack of shaemoor. The player is the hero of shaemoor and there is a threat of bandits and centaurs. But there is not attack from risen there this thread still has to manifest itself in that part of the world.
But at the same time, parts of this map exist in the time that bandit champions are on the rise (which happens in living world season 3).

See it as a story being told. Even if you revisit parts of the map, not everything that has happened in that specific place will be told, but if the author of the story brings you there it is assumed you know, cause you have been reading the whole book.

Does this require some immersion? yes!

[Deniara Devious.3948]

Yes please. Kessex hills was one of the most beautiful maps ever created in a MMORPG. Together with Queensdale they form a perfect 1st player experience.

I tried the new Cantha themed expansion, but found myself going back to Kessex hills and marvel how much better the old map looks compared to the new maps. It also flows better except those sore areas, which were butchered in the Season 1. Looks better and more fun to play.

Just invent a story excuse, where everything is back to normal.

[dusanyu.4057]

7 hours ago, Deniara Devious.3948 said:

Just invent a story excuse, where everything is back to normal.

problem is the amount the earth was damaged by those massive roots from the tower of terror back to normal with any story line would be rather difficult as far as fort selmas destruction blame the Players who were using it as a location for erotic roleplay

[Matt H.6142]

The tech to hide assets was ‘invented’ around the bitterfrost release so it might be possible to clean up Kessex Hills for new accounts but most of us would be left with the current map after the story.  Perhaps it will become the new Pre-Searing Ascalon.  I would love to see the old Kessex Hills again though.  But it’s quite the life lesson that you can’t go back to the way they were. Maybe we can cull the glowing toxic mobs back though. 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

So my initial thoughts is: It'd be complicated.

 

First off, Kessex Hills isn't the only map altered physical. Gendarran Fields, Lornar's Pass, Timberline Falls, and Iron Marches are also altered (and of course, Divinity's Reach and Lion's Arch) - Kessex, however, is simply the most altered. Now, Gendarran Fields' alteration didn't really "lose" naything. It opened up more of Vigil Keep, which is now barren after LA was reconstructed (wouldn't mind some NPCs returned there, hinthint). Lornar's Pass was changed twice - introducing the Twisted Marioentte, then removing it. While the "with TM there" is available again, pre-TM is missing and so is the old design... It's not much lost though, it was just a Ice Wurm's corpse and a PoI. Issue is, there's no story instance there to "bring it back for players". Iron Marches is too heavily reliant on story to be altered - Season 2 introduced several open world events that altered the map and those events are story requirements and achievement requirements. Nothing was removed with their additions, so it's fine. Though it is weird the world map art never got updated to reflect the addition of vines...

 

To bring back to Kessex Hills: It received five changes over the course of S1 and S2: Before ToN, ToN preview, ToN itself, post-ToN, and Season 2's destruction of Fort Salma.

All things considered... we don't really know how Season 1 content will return so it's impossible to say "just bring back old Kessex because post-Kessex will be in story!" Here's the thing: no story takes place in post-ToN Kessex except two instances with destroyed Fort Salma. Those instances in S2 don't go near Viathan Lake, so the post-ToN stuff will basically be lost to all time like that. Similarly, however, there's no pre-ToN stuff that goes close to Viathan Lake to merit old Kessex being brought back. You had some human story stuff, but the closest you get is Treskell Quay, really and the tengu outpost, where the changes are still very minimal compared to north and west of Viathan Lake. And honestly, what beneficial change will there be? Some removal of wreckage, a change to a heart, and some extra trees. There's only one thing lost in regards to pre-ToN stuff. But a lot of stuff would be lost by reverting post-ToN stuff - events, ambient dialogues, etc.

 

And phasing between two maps is... bad. It splits the playerbase pointlessly, especially since the only change is just physical collision and losing content for the "prettier" map. I think people overstate just how much "better" the old Kessex looked, too.

 

I would much rather just bring back Fort Salma that removed various dialogues needlessly (Amnoon has a moment where it's totally wrecked in an instance but perfectly fine in open world - and the next story instance to take place there - in S4, so Salma being wrecked the not in open world is no biggie IMHO), and clean up the wreckage without reverting the additions to other places. Keep the toxic krait and dialogue about it - it's like Chernobyl, it won't cleanup anytime soon.

 

On 3/23/2022 at 2:07 PM, Matt H.6142 said:

The tech to hide assets was ‘invented’ around the bitterfrost release so it might be possible to clean up Kessex Hills for new accounts but most of us would be left with the current map after the story.  Perhaps it will become the new Pre-Searing Ascalon.  I would love to see the old Kessex Hills again though.  But it’s quite the life lesson that you can’t go back to the way they were. Maybe we can cull the glowing toxic mobs back though. 

Phasing is theoretically possible, however you have the issue of collision. As far as I'm aware, all of the story-related phasing tech used in GW2 - especially the stuff made for Bitterfrost release, ignores collision. Collision is a "everyone or no one" thing, which is phasing it only works with festivals and not character or story progression.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Kalendrack.7450]

 

Thank you for the detailed answer ! You're absolutely right, Kessex Hills was just an exemple (I was actually playing on that map with a reroll when I submited this topic)

 

You made a lot of good points. I think I'm just a nerd when it comes to the coherence of the world and storyline. I always try to have the perspective of a new player entering altered maps (and being confused). That, linked to my desire to see a rework of the personal story...

 

I think some of the old content made for LWS1 and S2 could be instanced and no longer a public event. 

 

Guess we'll see what angle the dev takes on Return to LVS1 🙂 

[Redfeather.6401]

In a way the zone will change with the use of phasing. But it's impossible to say how as it's still being worked on. But I am sure it will be cool to see in action.

[Luthan.5236]

Said it in the thread about LA: Here I played on the old and new maps and experienced the changes. (For LA I missed the rebuilding phase.) They want the majority of players on the new maps for the new events. And old players experiencing it slowly would maybe get empty maps if forced to play in the old map only.

As an option to unlock this permanently (different waypoint with a timeline / year next to it) - would be nice. Maybe after completing s1. As option - the default still the latest version of the map.

The story stuff should be instanced if possible.

This "different versions" option I already suggested in the past for other maps - that might make "progress". (Orr after Zhaitan and stuff like that. Old Orr has enough events so not every player would switch to the new maps only.)

Edited April 21, 2022 by Luthan.5236