ArenaNet Studio Update: The future of Guild Wars 2

[battledrone.8315]

14 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

I agree. I don't want the same gear forever (for all my characters), too. Sometimes I want to play and try different gear-stat-combinations (power, condi, celestial, etc.), also for different game modes, sometimes I want to "grind" for a specific gear because of how it looks or how it is used (weapons).

Only the max-gear-level  and the max-stats will continue to be "ascended" and there will be no better stats than "ascended" in the game.

Increasing the max-character level and the max-gear-level, with every expansion for example, like it is in other games, is the easy way out treadmill for games to retain players. The GW2 creators did not wanted that. Because it invalidates all previous gear and does not value and respect the time of players getting their gear in the first place.

That's why GW2 instead implemented another form of progression system with the masteries with the release of the HoT expansion. Sure, the mastery progression system is far from perfect and has it's flaws. But I think this progression system is still better than increasing the gear-level again-and-again (with every expansion).
 

they nerfed the most casual builds for this expansion, forcing the playerbase to buy the expansion and to grind the 

bot parts, just to keep the VIT buff, that they had  before.

meaning, they had to pay AND work, JUST TO KEEP, WHAT THEY HAD BEFORE

do i have to point out, how broken the the balance between the different masteries are?

[battledrone.8315]

On 5/12/2022 at 4:51 PM, Zok.4956 said:

I agree. I don't want the same gear forever (for all my characters), too. Sometimes I want to play and try different gear-stat-combinations (power, condi, celestial, etc.), also for different game modes, sometimes I want to "grind" for a specific gear because of how it looks or how it is used (weapons).

Only the max-gear-level  and the max-stats will continue to be "ascended" and there will be no better stats than "ascended" in the game.

Increasing the max-character level and the max-gear-level, with every expansion for example, like it is in other games, is the easy way out treadmill for games to retain players. The GW2 creators did not wanted that. Because it invalidates all previous gear and does not value and respect the time of players getting their gear in the first place.

That's why GW2 instead implemented another form of progression system with the masteries with the release of the HoT expansion. Sure, the mastery progression system is far from perfect and has it's flaws. But I think this progression system is still better than increasing the gear-level again-and-again (with every expansion).
 

when wow was at its peak, they made different content for casuals and hardcores. anet has always only made one ,

so its anet, that is using "the easy way out".

in a gear grinder. i can log in and do the content, get the rewards, and go on with my life.

here, i have to basically make a new character, if i want to progress.

explain to me , how that is "respecting your time?

if my build is wrong, they should tell me when i make it. not when i am finished the with the core game

Edited May 14, 2022 by battledrone.8315

[Thon.3780]

Just my opinion,

I think the gw2 decide is quite clear that pvp WvW or grind item are final goal.
It is different from mmorpg level up concept that pull player by implement new map , increase level cap.

while gw2 is strategic concept with level cap at 80. 
 

the possible future for story mode or pve is add new map with higher difficulty and add enchanct  equipment like backpack, robot infusion. In future who know , it might be smithing weapon or armor for enchanted ( + damage, or def) or add second robot or protection spirit.

 

gem <~>gold still be key business for this game , if not it will close already. Unless it do monthly charges but people will walk out for new game by compare the values from payment. 
 

so if you want more fun, then think and propose about add new quality of life to ANET  then you can enjoy one time pay game for a long time.

[Zok.4956]

10 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said:

when wow was at its peak, they made different content for casuals and hardcores. anet has always only made one ,

so its anet, that is using "the easy way out".

You have 1085 forum posts at the time I write this. If you were the same amount of time in the game you were in the forum you should have known that there is content for "casuals" and for "hardcores" in GW2. So, do just want to troll or derange the discussion or what exactely are you talking about?

 

[Obtena.7952]

On 5/13/2022 at 1:30 AM, battledrone.8315 said:

they nerfed the most casual builds for this expansion, forcing the playerbase to buy the expansion and to grind the 

bot parts, just to keep the VIT buff, that they had  before.

meaning, they had to pay AND work, JUST TO KEEP, WHAT THEY HAD BEFORE

do i have to point out, how broken the the balance between the different masteries are?

Little of what you are saying here makes sense.

Many pre-EoD builds/specs are STILL more sustainable than EoD ones, EVEN with the passive sustain nerfs. The most casual builds were not nerfed ... the most SUSTAINABLE ones were. Those are VERY different things. 

No one had any VIT nerfed pre-EoD to require them to buy it to get it back with the bot. The bot is IN ADDITION to the vit people had. If they didn't need more vit before EoD, the bot certain didn't impact their decision to buy EoD. 

We get your hate for EoD ... but the claims are not valid here. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[battledrone.8315]

On 5/14/2022 at 7:19 PM, Zok.4956 said:

You have 1085 forum posts at the time I write this. If you were the same amount of time in the game you were in the forum you should have known that there is content for "casuals" and for "hardcores" in GW2. So, do just want to troll or derange the discussion or what exactely are you talking about?

 

yep , most of the core game is casual. and most of the expansions arent. and a truly casual player will know the difference.

do you know, what anet is experimenting with as preparation for the steam launch?  increased XP gains in the early game.

meaning, that players will be even more unprepared for the switch to harcore mode.

i know you wont believe it. and when the steam launch happens, you prolly  will find some other argument, why it

went this way. 

[battledrone.8315]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Little of what you are saying here makes sense.

Many pre-EoD builds/specs are STILL more sustainable than EoD ones, EVEN with the passive sustain nerfs. The most casual builds were not nerfed ... the most SUSTAINABLE ones were. Those are VERY different things. 

No one had any VIT nerfed pre-EoD to require them to buy it to get it back with the bot. The bot is IN ADDITION to the vit people had. If they didn't need more vit before EoD, the bot certain didn't impact their decision to buy EoD. 

We get your hate for EoD ... but the claims are not valid here. 

the mechanist autoattack build says hello. i would get one too, if i didnt know, that they will nerf it after some time.

 

[Obtena.7952]

10 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said:

the mechanist autoattack build says hello. i would get one too, if i didnt know, that they will nerf it after some time.

 

That doesn't change what I said, at all. The idea that you had that Anet nerfed the game to sell more EoD is nonsensical because ... 

Many pre-EoD builds/specs are STILL more sustainable than EoD ones, EVEN with the passive sustain nerfs. The most casual builds were not nerfed ... the most SUSTAINABLE ones were. Those are VERY different things. 

No one had any VIT nerfed pre-EoD to require them to buy it to get it back with the bot. The bot is IN ADDITION to the vit people had. If they didn't need more vit before EoD, the bot certain didn't impact their decision to buy EoD

Edited May 16, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[battledrone.8315]

13 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't change what I said, at all. The idea that you had that Anet nerfed the game to sell more EoD is nonsensical because ... 

Many pre-EoD builds/specs are STILL more sustainable than EoD ones, EVEN with the passive sustain nerfs. The most casual builds were not nerfed ... the most SUSTAINABLE ones were. Those are VERY different things. 

No one had any VIT nerfed pre-EoD to require them to buy it to get it back with the bot. The bot is IN ADDITION to the vit people had. If they didn't need more vit before EoD, the bot certain didn't impact their decision to buy EoD

really? you wanna defend this with semantics? 

they nerfed something, that people have paid and worked for. not respectful at all, is it?

OTOH, you can just buy this shiny , new and unnerfed toy instead. until they nerf that too ofc.

 

 

[Zok.4956]

On 5/16/2022 at 5:28 AM, battledrone.8315 said:

yep , most of the core game is casual. and most of the expansions arent. and a truly casual player will know the difference.

I think you are maliciously diverting the discussion. So, anyone who disagrees with you isn't a true casual player? I think that ends the discussion for me.

 

[Obtena.7952]

12 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said:

really? you wanna defend this with semantics? 

they nerfed something, that people have paid and worked for. not respectful at all, is it?

OTOH, you can just buy this shiny , new and unnerfed toy instead. until they nerf that too ofc.

 

 

It's not a defense with semantics at all. It's just true that there are still lots of sustain builds that have nothing to do with EoD and that no one got a VIT nerf pre-EoD so they needed to buy EoD to get it back with the bot. You're claims here are just false. You're just making false claims and arguing with people in bad faith because you got an axe to grind about ... something. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[battledrone.8315]

20 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

I think you are maliciously diverting the discussion. So, anyone who disagrees with you isn't a true casual player? I think that ends the discussion for me.

 

the numbers speak for themselves. if it really was as casual , as you claim, then there would be more players.

MANY more players. where are they? why did they stop playing?

if it really was , because core is too easy, then the game would had performed like new world.

instead, you end up with roughly the same % as the raiding community in other mmos

coincidence? i dont think so...

[battledrone.8315]

10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

It's not a defense with semantics at all. It's just true that there are still lots of sustain builds that have nothing to do with EoD and that no one got a VIT nerf pre-EoD so they needed to buy EoD to get it back with the bot. You're claims here are just false. You're just making false claims and arguing with people in bad faith because you got an axe to grind about ... something. 

do you even know how RPGs work at all? you build a character, by selecting skills and traits.

the character IS the build. making it invalid, basically creates a dead end for that character.

not only have i lost the character, that i liked to play. now i have to find a new build under the worst possible conditions.

instead of learning and growing your chacter through the entire game, you just get  some links to the fansites.

very few people can defend this.

[Obtena.7952]

10 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said:

do you even know how RPGs work at all?

Yes I do ... and that has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. 

The implication that changes to the game pre-EoD was a way to force players to buy EoD by Anet is absurd. Nothing stops you from playing the character you have. Any character you make has access to any build you can make on it (so this nonsense about characters being lost because of game changes can stop now). Many of the builds that were relevant pre-EoD are STILL relevant now. (see, I knew there was an axe grinding there 😉) 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I can't find the Patch Notes where Vitality was 'nerfed'.  Please link them for me. 

[Smart College Boy.3249]

There is no reason for GW2 to create a gear treadmill (grinding) system. Nearly every other MMORPG including WoW already has that feature. So please move along.

 

One of the reasons I refuse to return to WoW is the endless upkeep of gear. I spent excessive time in content I did not want to do because it was built into the gear grind. Now... if the gear grind let's me progress in the content I want but at a slower pace I'm fine with it. And I'm fine with players in super high end content getting "slightly" better gear. But most games don't work like that. The top gear ends up making a huge difference.

 

And most high end players complain it's not worth struggling through super hard content if they are only marginally better than the rest of us peons. So we end up with a system where everyone is constantly spending their time chasing higher levels of gear instead of playing aspects of the game they enjoy. And in the end, this leads to players quitting and not wanting to return because they realize how far behind they are on gear.

 

Yea, I know their are ways for devs to solve this but they never do. The only solution I can think of is to let players progress at a slower pace in content they choose to do, even if it's not the highest end content in the game. 

 

Will we ever have a game where players start off with all of their skills and attributes at character creation. And the game's progression system revolves around the changing world rather than the individual player? The individual player can stand out by his reputation amongst players and his impact on changing the world rather than his ability to master "instanced content" for better gear? A non static world with a real history that isn't simply told through trite stories (aka Living Story).

Edited May 19, 2022 by Smart College Boy.3249

[battledrone.8315]

On 5/18/2022 at 3:20 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Yes I do ... and that has nothing to do with what we are talking about here. 

The implication that changes to the game pre-EoD was a way to force players to buy EoD by Anet is absurd. Nothing stops you from playing the character you have. Any character you make has access to any build you can make on it (so this nonsense about characters being lost because of game changes can stop now). Many of the builds that were relevant pre-EoD are STILL relevant now. (see, I knew there was an axe grinding there 😉) 

 

"many of the builds, that were relevant" is the problem here. 

it should be ALL builds. SPECIALLY in a game that is sold as "casual", "play as you want "etc

if its in the game, then it should also work in all zones. and it doesnt.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said:

"many of the builds, that were relevant" is the problem here. 

it should be ALL builds. SPECIALLY in a game that is sold as "casual", "play as you want "etc

if its in the game, then it should also work in all zones. and it doesnt.

You're being vague here. You're expectations are simply not inline with how GW2 evolves and changes. You are going to have to do better than claim ALL builds should 'work'. What do you mean by that? To me it means any build you want to make, no matter how poorly conceived ... should 'work'. Obviously, that's pretty unreasonable, especially considering player ability factors HEAVILY in how well a build works in any zone you want to talk about. 

If you're going to make such broad reaching and vague claims about 'builds not working', you have to be WAY more specific about what you are referring to. Obviously not ALL builds are going to be good ... and no, that's not a problem either. Some builds are just trash. Maybe if you have a specific build you can show us, we have something to talk about. Until then, this just sounds like a problem with the player, not the game. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Astralporing.1957]

@battledrone.8315

To circumvent what is about to turn to multi-page discussion between you and @Obtena.7952:

Yes,  pre-EoD nerfs to sustains of some builds might have been indeed over-the-top, heavy-handed and not fully justified. The claim that Anet made those nerfs to push EoD (and especially jade bot mastery) is completely false however - those nerfs are in no way related to that, and aren't even connected to the vitality boost that mastery gives.

Do not try to confuse those two things, because it makes you lose the argument before you even started it.

[battledrone.8315]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You're being vague here. You're expectations are simply not inline with how GW2 evolves and changes. You are going to have to do better than claim ALL builds should 'work'. What do you mean by that? To me it means any build you want to make, no matter how poorly conceived ... should 'work'. Obviously, that's pretty unreasonable, especially considering player ability factors HEAVILY in how well a build works in any zone you want to talk about. 

If you're going to make such broad reaching and vague claims about 'builds not working', you have to be WAY more specific about what you are referring to. Obviously not ALL builds are going to be good ... and no, that's not a problem either. Some builds are just trash. Maybe if you have a specific build you can show us, we have something to talk about. Until then, this just sounds like a problem with the player, not the game. 

yep, thats the problem, in a casual game everything should just work, and give the player some fun.

just the way, that i could do it in most of the core OW. but it doesnt work that way now, does it?.

so, its not a casual game anymore. 

 

[battledrone.8315]

4 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

@battledrone.8315

To circumvent what is about to turn to multi-page discussion between you and @Obtena.7952:

Yes,  pre-EoD nerfs to sustains of some builds might have been indeed over-the-top, heavy-handed and not fully justified. The claim that Anet made those nerfs to push EoD (and especially jade bot mastery) is completely false however - those nerfs are in no way related to that, and aren't even connected to the vitality boost that mastery gives.

Do not try to confuse those two things, because it makes you lose the argument before you even started it.

"not related"?. anet made the nerfs, and they sell the game. who else would you blame? jebus? batman?me?

[Astralporing.1957]

53 minutes ago, battledrone.8315 said:

"not related"?. anet made the nerfs, and they sell the game. who else would you blame? jebus? batman?me?

"not related" as in "they were made for a completely different reason". And, again, jade bots in no way are a replacement for that nerf, because (surprise surprise) increasing vitality does absolutely nothing to compensate a nerf to healing. In fact, in raids, where a lot of the important damage is percentile-based, increasing vitality is an indirect nerf to healing (because you now need more healing to heal back what you lost due to such boss attack). If devs were truly intending to use jade bots to compensate for that heal nerf, the bots would give toughness, not vitality.

Remember, it may be okay to disagree withAnet for doing something you dislike, but you have to be very careful to do it for the right reasons. Not for something you just invented on the spot that has no relation to reality.

In short: you seem to disagree with a lot of things Anet decided on. That's okay - you may even be right on at least some of those points. Problem is, you then try to connect those things into some sort of a greater conspiracy theory that does not have even passable conection to reality. And that immediately shoots your whole argument down.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said:

yep, thats the problem, in a casual game everything should just work, and give the player some fun.

Again, that's just unrealistic given the overwhelming number of choices available and the fact that 'all builds working' (whatever that means) has NEVER been something the game did in the first place.  Top that off with the fact that this has nothing to do with if a game is casual or not. Casual doesn't mean appealing to the lowest common denominator with enabling even the worst builds possible to be successful. I mean, if what you say is true that casual game means all builds should just work, then all builds not working has NOTHING to do with EoD anyways ... so your complaint still isn't valid. 

Regardless, despite the claim you have, it's simply untrue that Anet made the sustain nerfs to sell more EoD copies, especially since most EoD specs aren't better sustain than their pre-existing specs. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[battledrone.8315]

18 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

"not related" as in "they were made for a completely different reason". And, again, jade bots in no way are a replacement for that nerf, because (surprise surprise) increasing vitality does absolutely nothing to compensate a nerf to healing. In fact, in raids, where a lot of the important damage is percentile-based, increasing vitality is an indirect nerf to healing (because you now need more healing to heal back what you lost due to such boss attack). If devs were truly intending to use jade bots to compensate for that heal nerf, the bots would give toughness, not vitality.

Remember, it may be okay to disagree withAnet for doing something you dislike, but you have to be very careful to do it for the right reasons. Not for something you just invented on the spot that has no relation to reality.

In short: you seem to disagree with a lot of things Anet decided on. That's okay - you may even be right on at least some of those points. Problem is, you then try to connect those things into some sort of a greater conspiracy theory that does not have even passable conection to reality. And that immediately shoots your whole argument down.

explain to me how hitpoints and healing are not related. because i am VERY curious about that.

[battledrone.8315]

18 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Again, that's just unrealistic given the overwhelming number of choices available and the fact that 'all builds working' (whatever that means) has NEVER been something the game did in the first place.  Top that off with the fact that this has nothing to do with if a game is casual or not. Casual doesn't mean appealing to the lowest common denominator with enabling even the worst builds possible to be successful. I mean, if what you say is true that casual game means all builds should just work, then all builds not working has NOTHING to do with EoD anyways ... so your complaint still isn't valid. 

Regardless, despite the claim you have, it's simply untrue that Anet made the sustain nerfs to sell more EoD copies, especially since most EoD specs aren't better sustain than their pre-existing specs. 

wrong, in the lower levels OW you can literally play anything. and you are also wrong about what casual means.

if you had supported it, anet would had grown, and THEN you could have had some raids every now and then.

instead, we have a game, that is going nowhere. casuals have a game, that just stops. and the hardcores have a 

game without a proper start. i have never seen any other mmo , where the playerbase is so divided either.

it makes oldschool alliance VS horde look like a kindergarden playground, and that aint right.