Virtuoso Aoe Combo; Move over Epidemic

[Mell.4873]

Again while testing Virtuoso in fractals I noticed a crazy combo that can produce 40k+ dps.

The main combo is full blade stocks + Temporal Curtain/Into the Void then Bladesong F2, F1, F4, F3.

The main thing that makes this possible is Bloodsong, this is because the when you apply 5 bleeds on each enemy it triggers blade stocking very fast.
This lets you use every Bladesong in a row due to how fast Blades stock.

If you have the trait Master of Fragmentation then even your F3 can produce an aoe and if like me you have roughly 75% critical chance then F1 is now 100%.

PS, Thank you Admin

Edited March 23, 2022 by Mell.4873

[mungozen.2379]

You might want to mention the number of mobs required to pull this off since it won't work on 1 or 2, maybe not 3.

Also, what build are you using where you aren't using F1 twice before using F4?

I kinda thought this was well established as a tactic, I posted about this in another thread last week in combination with Sword of Decimation where you drop Temporal Curtain, fire off Sword of Decimation at the same location then immediately use Into the Void to drag everyone into the SoD.  I started doing this in the new EoD content where the enemy mobs tend to spread out more so after a pull than in older content.

[Mell.4873]

52 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

You might want to mention the number of mobs required to pull this off since it won't work on 1 or 2, maybe not 3.

Also, what build are you using where you aren't using F1 twice before using F4?

I kinda thought this was well established as a tactic, I posted about this in another thread last week in combination with Sword of Decimation where you drop Temporal Curtain, fire off Sword of Decimation at the same location then immediately use Into the Void to drag everyone into the SoD.  I started doing this in the new EoD content where the enemy mobs tend to spread out more so after a pull than in older content.

I can clarify, you need at least 3 mobs or you wont get enough blade stocks.

You can use all the Bladesongs before the F1 comes off cooldown, but you could open with F1

The build you suggested I was what I was using with my Power Virtuoso but this one is for Condi.
I use 40% vipers 40% greiving, 20% rampagers; Condition infustions. My goal was to get to 40% critical chance so that food + fury will put me up to 75%.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Mell.4873

[mungozen.2379]

22 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

You can use all the Bladesongs before the F1 comes off cooldown, but you could open with F1

This is why I was asking what build you are running (as in traits). 

F1 becomes an Ammo Skill with Illusions - Shatter Storm.  While each one has a 12 second CD, the minimum time between casting can be 1.75 second (cast time + the ammo cooldown) and at worst 8 seconds (if you chain F1 back to back).  If you are running with Alac, that 8 seconds decreases to about 6 seconds.

If you have F1 every 6 seconds or more often, it seems that would be better to use over the 1.5 second cast of F4 in melee range to get those blade hits for more Bleeds.  Assuming mobs live that long anyway.

[Mell.4873]

17 minutes ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

This is why I was asking what build you are running (as in traits). 

F1 becomes an Ammo Skill with Illusions - Shatter Storm.  While each one has a 12 second CD, the minimum time between casting can be 1.75 second (cast time + the ammo cooldown) and at worst 8 seconds (if you chain F1 back to back).  If you are running with Alac, that 8 seconds decreases to about 6 seconds.

If you have F1 every 6 seconds or more often, it seems that would be better to use over the 1.5 second cast of F4 in melee range to get those blade hits for more Bleeds.  Assuming mobs live that long anyway.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABgqh3llySYIsVmLW2WqxfA-zRZYmBzG90qiQUCB/B-e that is what i use but i like your idea.

I could try that idea and report back, I should have used that trait during fractals rather than eating the phantasms quickness.

[Infusion.7149]

I'll believe it when I see the dps report after the last shenanigans you posted

[Veprovina.4876]

That's... Not what epidemic is used for... 🤦‍♂️

[FarmBotXD.1430]

Are we supposed to be impressed by peaking 40k dps?
With perfect opening you can peak 60k on a quickness firebrand, a kittening support.
I had a thief that peaked almost 100k dps.
And I am talking about a boss so just 1 target, against multiples you can make any spec, pull enemies and hold auto-attack to get over 40k dps

EDIT
to prove my point, found the log
https://dps.report/Ia16-20220122-234416_skor
look at the first phase, thief did 99,3k dps.
Like I did almost 34k dps as a support by just using auto-attacks and cancelling them repeatedly lol

Edited March 23, 2022 by FarmBotXD.1430

[Infusion.7149]

While topic creator's premise is incorrect, you need to divide those numbers by two at a minimum due to exposed debuff multiplying condis by 2x.

[Mell.4873]

14 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

While topic creator's premise is incorrect, you need to divide those numbers by two at a minimum due to exposed debuff multiplying condis by 2x.

Do normal mobs without defiance bars get the exposed debuff? "Exposed is an effect applied on several enemies when their Defiance bar is depleted."

[Mell.4873]

14 hours ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

Are we supposed to be impressed by peaking 40k dps?
With perfect opening you can peak 60k on a quickness firebrand, a kittening support.

I agree but for a Condi Mesmer that is impressive, mirage doesn't have that much burst but Virtuoso does.
I wouldn't compare this to any power build and 40k was just the start I can get it higher than 60k under the right conditions too.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Infusion.7149]

10 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Do normal mobs without defiance bars get the exposed debuff? "Exposed is an effect applied on several enemies when their Defiance bar is depleted."

Normal mobs don't have exposed, only ones with CC bars. Neither do any raid bosses that do not get exposed debuff , typically breaking CC bar only stuns.

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Normal mobs don't have exposed, only ones with CC bars. Neither do any raid bosses that do not get exposed debuff , typically breaking CC bar only stuns.

Yeah so exposed has nothing to do with the 40k dps i guess the fractal potions help.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

6 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I agree but for a Condi Mesmer that is impressive, mirage doesn't have that much burst but Virtuoso does.
I wouldn't compare this to any power build and 40k was just the start I can get it higher than 60k under the right conditions too.

those were condition builds, I suspect proper power squad could pull off more then 100k dps in an opening.
But personally I never enjoyed power builds and usually play condi ones in pve so I cant give you exact numbers.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

Found another cool log.
https://dps.report/K4f7-20220116-191515_skor
Phase one I did 52,5k dps as quickness firebrand ( a support )
If you look at my rotation, its kitten and I rupted my auto 3 times ( why the kitten do I even auto )
I suspect properly made rotation is close to 65k dps, with new gear closer to 70k I suspect.
Also lowest dps in the team is 38,4k alac ren. Absolute chad team, would do CMs again.

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

those were condition builds, I suspect proper power squad could pull off more then 100k dps in an opening.
But personally I never enjoyed power builds and usually play condi ones in pve so I cant give you exact numbers.

k

2 hours ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

Found another cool log.
https://dps.report/K4f7-20220116-191515_skor
Phase one I did 52,5k dps as quickness firebrand ( a support )
If you look at my rotation, its kitten and I rupted my auto 3 times ( why the kitten do I even auto )
I suspect properly made rotation is close to 65k dps, with new gear closer to 70k I suspect.
Also lowest dps in the team is 38,4k alac ren. Absolute chad team, would do CMs again.

Okay.... I guess i don't really care since all I play is Mesmer PvE and I'm posting on the Mesmer forum. I mean i wouldn't care if Firebrand one shot everything in the game I would still play Mesmer.

so what is your point? 

I only know how to play Mesmer and Ranger i don't really touch other classes.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Mell.4873

[jaif.3518]

12 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

k

Okay.... I guess i don't really care since all I play is Mesmer PvE and I'm posting on the Mesmer forum. I mean i wouldn't care if Firebrand one shot everything in the game I would still play Mesmer.

so what is your point? 

I only know how to play Mesmer and Ranger i don't really touch other classes.

Given that you started this thread with "move over epidemic", this comment is pretty disingenuous.  You started comparing mesmer to necro, other people pointed out different comparisons, then you suddenly complain and say that only mesmer counts? 

[viquing.8254]

Sadly all PvE papercrft didn't work on PvP.

[Ashen.2907]

On 3/22/2022 at 9:02 PM, Veprovina.4876 said:

That's... Not what epidemic is used for... 🤦‍♂️

Honest question here:

What he is describing is a means of killing off numbers of trash mobs. Isn't that what epidemic is used for?

[Infusion.7149]

14 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Honest question here:

What he is describing is a means of killing off numbers of trash mobs. Isn't that what epidemic is used for?

Epidemic is 900 radius which means in certain situations such as on W5 Soulless Horror , W4 Mursaat Overseer raids as well as others where epi is not specifically asked for it hits added mobs. Using a bladesong on virtuoso would not remotely achieve that.

[Ashen.2907]

10 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Epidemic is 900 radius which means in certain situations such as on W5 Soulless Horror , W4 Mursaat Overseer raids as well as others where epi is not specifically asked for it hits added mobs. Using a bladesong on virtuoso would not remotely achieve that.

That sounds like a matter of degree of scope rather than of function, but yes Epidemic's area is fantastic.

[Infusion.7149]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

That sounds like a matter of degree of scope rather than of function, but yes Epidemic's area is fantastic.

Unless you want to play pool (billiards) with wurms on SH it is effectively not an option to use virtuoso bladesongs and the same goes for Mursaat Overseer except even to greater extent since the jade construct statues move.

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, jaif.3518 said:

Given that you started this thread with "move over epidemic", this comment is pretty disingenuous.  You started comparing mesmer to necro, other people pointed out different comparisons, then you suddenly complain and say that only mesmer counts? 

It was only a witty title, i think you are over analyzing my statement. I'm on the Mesmer forum, i hold 3 of the top post in the first page, I'm a Mesmer main.

3 hours ago, viquing.8254 said:

Sadly all PvE papercrft didn't work on PvP.

True hence why i don't play Mesmer in pvp, maybe WvW but I prefer Ranger.

[Veprovina.4876]

4 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Honest question here:

What he is describing is a means of killing off numbers of trash mobs. Isn't that what epidemic is used for?

Infusion beat me to it. 

Epidemic is also used on Ghosts in Gorseval fight to get rid of orbs. 

Furthermore, no one cares how much DPS epidemic does because it's a utility skill which Bladesongs aren't. 

You can't replace epidemic with what Mell is describing, and just comparing DPS of bladesongs (or rather entire combos) to one skill is just missing the point entirely.

[Salt Mode.3780]

So it takes an entire combo to replace one utility skill...seems like i would very much stick with epidemic at that point. Besides necros provides more then what Virtuosos can with barriers dmg etc.

Sad they nerfed epidemic tho,...but again...multiple skills....vs one utility....I'm no math genius but I'm pretty sure I would use the one utility vs combo.