Why is it Devs create selfish DPS who cannot apply self boons?

[Puck.3697]

9 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

That's where you're wrong, there is nothing like an entire spec structured on dealing damage. You may think so, but that's not true.

Virtuoso can exploit it's mechanism to be the mesmer's best healer spec for example. Weaver can be a healer (a very strong one) or a tank if he wish so.  Reaper is as good at strike damage than he is at condition damage, it doesn't mean that he can't build to be tanky as well... etc.

 

Mesmers best healer maybe. But when the other healers provide barrier and alacrity. Or quickness to stack it's not a meta viable one. 

Same goes for weaver. 

Theres no place in this game for a Healer that can't role compress. 

Reaper could tank. But again 0 role compression. 

These aren't viable in higher tier groups. And what doesn't get used at high tier also will be ignored in every other tier as players mimic the pros. 

So it's still problematic at best. 

[otto.5684]

I 100% agree. Virtuoso is highly reliant on fury with cumbersome access to it. Then you have rev sitting on stock pile of boons. Vindicator can maintain 100% fury, quickness and protection at the same time. Plus 10-20 might and good access to reg. The balance boggles my mind. 

[Stx.4857]

I guess I don't understand what you mean.  Isn't any build in full dps gear and dps traits a 'glass cannon'?   And why didn't you list Thief with those specs?  Daredevil and deadeye CAN share a few boons but no more than any other spec.

 

Also, I've seen weavers do insane burst damage in one to two minute windows...  on par with any other class in the game.  Why do they NEED alacrity?  So they can burst even harder?

[Puck.3697]

1 hour ago, Stx.4857 said:

I guess I don't understand what you mean.  Isn't any build in full dps gear and dps traits a 'glass cannon'?   And why didn't you list Thief with those specs?  Daredevil and deadeye CAN share a few boons but no more than any other spec.

 

Also, I've seen weavers do insane burst damage in one to two minute windows...  on par with any other class in the game.  Why do they NEED alacrity?  So they can burst even harder?

Glass cannons means 0 utility.. 

As above said. 

My objective here isn't to say "give virtuoso every boon 100% uptime" 

But the core of the problem is simply. 

Virtuoso doesn't function properly without 100% crit because it needs crits to generate blades otherwise Ur rotation will just stop. 

Weaver doesn't function without alacrity. Because weave self isnt long enough to cover the GCDs required for it's burst rotation. 

Due to both of these things, they take major DPS losses due to their rotations going out the window when they can't access these boons. 

Their burst over 1 or 2 minutes requires alacrity to happen, they cannot weave self burst without alacrity. Unless ofcourse they're playing power. Which does not use weave self. 

But that's fixable. 

I.e weave self gives you alacrity for the duration of weave self thus stopping other builds accessing it.

And you say insane burst? I've seen people showing close to 100k in exposed burst. 😂

Condi speccs do burst insanely high all over. This is because Anet fail to seperate Condi builds from it which is why their so powerful currently. 

Condi isn't ussposed to have bursts and ment to be stronger over a longer fight while power is all about burst. That went out the window however. 

Also I said quickness for weaver, the reason I say this is because with quickness weaver has access to a auto attack build that does 25k DPS, weaver is a highly complex specc alot of people are terrified of taking into raids, it's also insanely squishy and forced into melee. 

Allowing it to take advantage of a auto attack build that's self reliant in training runs would make the specc ALOT more approachable and forgiving to being learnt effectively. Espically by players who need to focus more on the bosses mechanics then their rotation 

Also they have a few other advtanges from it. 

Here's the thing giving glas cannons self boon access doesn't increase their DPS. Doesn't make them burst harder either. 

Because they are already using these boons when you see these. It changes nothing. All it does is reduce the hinderence caused by average play and Non-optimal boon uptimes.

Onto your third point. 

Deadeye has self boons it has 25 might and quickness. 

Daredevil has self boons through stolen skills + signet self buffs to stats. 

Weaver and virtuoso do not have either of these things. 

On alacrity if you want my personal opinion. 

Base GCDs need to be made faster and alacrity needs to go back to chronomancer as Its mechanic.

I never agreed with the idea of alacrity becoming a raid boon. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[RabbitUp.8294]

4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Except DPS losses on a proffession built to maximise. This is the issue with reaper. 

If your a pure DPS doing as much DPS as a hybrid, you are no longer value. 

Well yeah, that's the point. These dps builds are not made by anet. They are made by players with the sole purpose of maximising dps. Anything else you want to add to those builds will come at a cost of some damage.

4 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Virtuoso, weaver reaper and willbender are effectively the only selfish DPS. 

Dragonhunter / firebrand, chrono, etc etc generally all bring utility. Through CC  etc etc.à

But all of them have CC. And again, you still have access to the core class. Slot in Portal/Feedback/Phantasmal Disenchanter and now your Virtuoso has utility.

[RabbitUp.8294]

 

4 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

I 100% agree. Virtuoso is highly reliant on fury with cumbersome access to it. Then you have rev sitting on stock pile of boons. Vindicator can maintain 100% fury, quickness and protection at the same time. Plus 10-20 might and good access to reg. The balance boggles my mind. 

Have you seen the vindicator benchmarks? It's 35-36k to virtuoso's 41k.

You want boons, you pay the price in damage, simple as that.

Edited March 28, 2022 by RabbitUp.8294

[Puck.3697]

9 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

 

Have you seen the vindicator benchmarks? It's 35-36k to virtuoso's 41k.

You want boons, you pay the price in damage, simple as that.

you mean like Renegade can do 41k DPS While giving itself both Might and Fury uptime?

what about Harbinger with a 41k DPS bench with Self - 100% Fury uptime?

its cool to set that rule.. except the factor, theres glass DPS Options.. with these boons and WAAAY closer to Virtuosos Numbers.

Vindicator PvE Wise just got RIP'D by the fact Anet of thinking some hybrid healer is a "trade off"... for some weirdo reason

Edited March 29, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[otto.5684]

9 hours ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

 

Have you seen the vindicator benchmarks? It's 35-36k to virtuoso's 41k.

You want boons, you pay the price in damage, simple as that.

I have seen Vindicator numbers slightly higher. Nevertheless, only condition Virtuoso parse that high. Power is around same as Vindicator. And unpopular opinion, and build that crosses the 35k utility and survivability are far more important than more damage. Outside of melee range preferability, I would take a build like Vindicator over Virtuoso in any PvE content.

[ZDragon.3046]

Simply put every class generally has a set rough cut of boons it can apply in general. Anet did it this way as part of the class design as some of them depend on those boons more than others. 

 

Ele does not have self quickness but it has protection, regen, decent might options, fury options, swiftness options, etc. It has a wide spread of self uility boons 

Vs

something like necro has mainly been locked to might through almost all of the expansions. It has a bit of fury via curses and reaper got self quickness but even then you are looking at mainly 2 boons vs eles 6-7 boon spread for example. 

Even now with harbingener its main long lasting boons are might, fury, quickness 3 boons in comparisons to other classes that generally also have might. Many of them also have fury and only a few others have quickness. but of those other classes they too have a wider range and usually as a result they have less quick, fury, might etc.

 

If anet gave every class options to self-sustain every boon he game would be a bit dull i would think and it would only push playing alone rather than working together with other players which is a BIG THING for anet when building guild wars as a whole.

 

If you are the kind of person who prefers to play alone and wants to be self sufficient with things like personal boons (quickness, might, fury) you just need to adopt playing one of the professions that can do that imo. There is nothing wrong with it. When playing with others in groups you can play the classes that cannot self generate those boons and depend on others to give them to you. 

 

In terms of selfish dps classes the only class you really have o comapre too i think would reaper as its the only selfish dps that has personal built in quickness

And if you look at them side by side with some of the other selfish dps classes you listed those selfish dps classes do far great damage than reaper does under quickness. To make do wha you are asking would mean nerfing those classes to bring them down to reapers level of power in exchange for having self quickness which i assure you no one wants. 

[ZDragon.3046]

15 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

you mean like Renegade can do 41k DPS While giving itself both Might and Fury uptime?

what about Harbinger with a 41k DPS bench with Self - 100% Fury uptime?

its cool to set that rule.. except the factor, theres glass DPS Options.. with these boons and WAAAY closer to Virtuosos Numbers.

Vindicator PvE Wise just got RIP'D by the fact Anet of thinking some hybrid healer is a "trade off"... for some weirdo reason

You should try and hit that 41k bench while generating your own fury at 100% uptime which means you have to also generate your own quickness as its the only way harb can do that i promise you that you wont hit a 41k bench.

hitting a 41k bench is like the top 3% of people with the gear the infusions and know the class down to a frame perfect canceling level of perfection ill never understand. 

Don't suggest things based on benchmarks that the common player base cannot hit, most players cannot achieve it on the golem and you wont achieve it in realistic combat while avoiding mechanics anyways. Many of the bench test are done with the console generating the boon uptime but i promise you if you go back and attempt to do it yourself without the console boons you will find those numbers are very unrealistic and only serve as a guide to what the class can basically do with cheats enabled lol 

please take snowcrows stuff with a grain of salt and examine their videos very close. That said you are more than welcome to post a video of someone generating alac and might for you while you generate your own quickness and fury at 100% up time and do 41k on the golem. IF you can do that people might understand where you are coming from more easily. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by ZDragon.3046

[Puck.3697]

14 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

You should try and hit that 41k bench while generating your own fury at 100% uptime which means you have to also generate your own quickness as its the only way harb can do that i promise you that you wont hit a 41k bench.

hitting a 41k bench is like the top 3% of people with the gear the infusions and know the class down to a frame perfect canceling level of perfection ill never understand. 

Don't suggest things based on benchmarks that the common player base cannot hit, most players cannot achieve it on the golem and you wont achieve it in realistic combat while avoiding mechanics anyways. Many of the bench test are done with the console generating the boon uptime but i promise you if you go back and attempt to do it yourself without the console boons you will find those numbers are very unrealistic and only serve as a guide to what the class can basically do with cheats enabled lol 

please take snowcrows stuff with a grain of salt and examine their videos very close. That said you are more than welcome to post a video of someone generating alac and might for you while you generate your own quickness and fury at 100% up time and do 41k on the golem. IF you can do that people might understand where you are coming from more easily. 

None of them can actually do their benchs realistically.  That's across the board. 

But when you - the loss of everyone the list still stays the same just at lower numbers 

[ZDragon.3046]

59 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

None of them can actually do their benchs realistically.  That's across the board. 

But when you - the loss of everyone the list still stays the same just at lower numbers 

that being said i cant understand the point in bothering to bring them up. 

but i promise you 100% fury / quick uptime is nowhere close to 41k i don't even think you read he SC bench correctly tbh.

quick harb which would provide perma fury and quickness uptime (which is very difficult to do without any additional boon duration as snow crows suggest in realistic fights) is a much lower dps number than pure dps harb. 

pure dps harb is 41k and it cannot provide perma boons of any kind to itself. Im fairly sure it cannot generate perma fury on its own though it might come close with alacrity but at that point you are with a group and if you are with a group they are going to be tossing out tons of free fury anyway which negates the argument entirely. 

condition quick harb is 33k which can perma generate fury and quickness though most players are likely to to come close to the 28-30k mark in terms of damage. which is a offensive support dealing lower than alot of he other selfish dps builds also getting fury and quickness from the harb.

Edited March 29, 2022 by ZDragon.3046

[Puck.3697]

12 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

that being said i cant understand the point in bothering to bring them up. 

but i promise you 100% fury / quick uptime is nowhere close to 41k i don't even think you read he SC bench correctly tbh.

quick harb which would provide perma fury and quickness uptime (which is very difficult to do without any additional boon duration as snow crows suggest in realistic fights) is a much lower dps number than pure dps harb. 

pure dps harb is 41k and it cannot provide perma boons of any kind to itself. Im fairly sure it cannot generate perma fury on its own though it might come close with alacrity but at that point you are with a group and if you are with a group they are going to be tossing out tons of free fury anyway which negates the argument entirely. 

condition quick harb is 33k which can perma generate fury and quickness though most players are likely to to come close to the 28-30k mark in terms of damage. which is a offensive support dealing lower than alot of he other selfish dps builds also getting fury and quickness from the harb.

No. but when i say give Virtuoso Fury, im not talking from a DPS Point of view.

Virtuoso's Blade generation is built off the back of Critical Damage, this means the Specc geninuely feels Incredibly bad to play without high Crit. Even in 4x Assassins and More Virtuoso doesnt get high enough on crit to fix this via gear either.

Giving virtusoo Self - Fury, and Maybe a Precision Stat Increase through trait / Signet use. Would allow Virtuoso to Manage this Critical Dependency and the Proffession would Feel more fun to play in enviroments where Optimal boon uptime isnt of use. (I.E Open World, Average PuGS, SPVP)

Weave self is Completely dependent on Alacrity to work, its Geninuely a Bad feeling to know you cannot physically use your own CDs properly. giving Alacrity to Weaver for ONLY the period of time using Weave self Would massively fix the issue and overall make the CD more fun to use in Enviroments again where optimal boon uptime isnt of use.

I aint saying "Make me do 41k DPS without help from other plays"

im saying "make this Speccs Function in the way their Rotations are susposed to internally".

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[ZDragon.3046]

17 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No. but when i say give Virtuoso Fury, im not talking from a DPS Point of view.

Virtuoso's Blade generation is built off the back of Critical Damage, this means the Specc geninuely feels Incredibly bad to play without high Crit. Even in 4x Assassins and More Virtuoso doesnt get high enough on crit to fix this via gear either.

Giving virtusoo Self - Fury, and Maybe a Precision Stat Increase through trait / Signet use. Would allow Virtuoso to Manage this Critical Dependency and the Proffession would Feel more fun to play in enviroments where Optimal boon uptime isnt of use. (I.E Open World, Average PuGS, SPVP)

 

Umm it has some of what you are talking about fury is one of mesmers easiest boons to utilize I know the Virtuoso line itself has some traits that work with fury but i think one of the core lines also applies fury to the phantoms  you summon.

The mesmer build you might be thinking off already uses.
phantasmal fury - phantoms have fury
phantasmal blade - you gan fury after each phantom 
and master fencer - more or less perma fury uptime against foes once they fall below 75% hp so long as you continue to hit them.

Sure a precision signet would be nice (but you do have a condition damage and expertise signet to make up for it) but i mean fury uptime is already there. And you can certainly build to hit a comfortable Precision stat base considering fury with virt. is 30% crit chance and not the standard 20%.

So im having a bit of trouble understanding your argument here.

Quote

Weave self is Completely dependent on Alacrity to work, its Geninuely a Bad feeling to know you cannot physically use your own CDs properly. giving Alacrity to Weaver for ONLY the period of time using Weave self Would massively fix the issue and overall make the CD more fun to use in Enviroments again where optimal boon uptime isnt of use.

I aint saying "Make me do 41k DPS without help from other plays"

im saying "make this Speccs Function in the way their Rotations are susposed to internally".

 

Its not honestly you can use weave self without alacirty the only thing alacrity does is give you a bit more time to squeeze out some extra dps before you hit the final stage of weave self.  

See the thing is... a raid rotation is not what you use on standard mob or even an open world elite... you just dont take a raid build to an open world fight. Raid builds and rotations are built with the idea of cooperating with other players so that they work. YOU need to learn how to build and play rotations for solo play where you may not have those boons given to you. You can still play most builds fairly close to the same way you would in a raid though you will be a bit slower without alacrity or quickness. My ele does not use the same setup it would in a raid that it would in open world not even my necro uses the same build for raids vs open world. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by ZDragon.3046

[Puck.3697]

23 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

 

Umm it has some of what you are talking about fury is one of mesmers easiest boons to utilize I know the Virtuoso line itself has some traits that work with fury but i think one of the core lines also applies fury to the phantoms  you summon.

The mesmer build you might be thinking off already uses.
phantasmal fury - phantoms have fury
phantasmal blade - you gan fury after each phantom 
and master fencer - more or less perma fury uptime against foes once they fall below 75% hp so long as you continue to hit them.

Sure a precision signet would be nice (but you do have a condition damage and expertise signet to make up for it) but i mean fury uptime is already there. And you can certainly build to hit a comfortable Precision stat base considering fury with virt. is 30% crit chance and not the standard 20%.

So im having a bit of trouble understanding your argument here.

Its not honestly you can use weave self without alacirty the only thing alacrity does is give you a bit more time to squeeze out some extra dps before you hit the final stage of weave self.  

See the thing is... a raid rotation is not what you use on standard mob or even an open world elite... you just dont take a raid build to an open world fight. Raid builds and rotations are built with the idea of cooperating with other players so that they work. YOU need to learn how to build and play rotations for solo play where you may not have those boons given to you. You can still play most builds fairly close to the same way you would in a raid though you will be a bit slower without alacrity or quickness. My ele does not use the same setup it would in a raid that it would in open world not even my necro uses the same build for raids vs open world. 

Not unless you seriously alter the build, but your going to murder your own DPS to make it, virtuoso builds don't have fury. 

I use a raid build virtuoso to solo. Being ranged and bursty generally means you just kill monsters before they reach you. 

And I defintly don't generate enough fury by far, there's alternatives sure

But given the snowcrows site itself says "if your in a group and you don't have either spotter or banners just leave the group" says enough on this realistically. 

And with the introduction of dragons end we are now seeing open world content that does demand these things. So the dynamics changing if they intend to create that sorta content.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[ZDragon.3046]

2 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Not unless you seriously alter the build, but your going to murder your own DPS to make it, virtuoso builds don't have fury. 

I use a raid build virtuoso to solo. Being ranged and bursty generally means you just kill monsters before they reach you. 

And I defintly don't generate enough fury by far, there's alternatives sure

But given the snowcrows site itself says "if your in a group and you don't have either spotter or banners just leave the group" says enough on this realistically. 

And with the introduction of dragons end we are now seeing open world content that does demand these things. So the dynamics changing if they intend to create that sorta content.

This is not true your dps is more or less the same as both power and condition virtuoso take all 3 of the traits i listed. Both builds have access to fury which will have 30% bonus crit chance instead of the base 20% yes you will not have perma fury uptime until a target falls under 75% hp but still you have more than enough to cover the role of depending on crit chance.

There really is no reason to take other trait lines over dueling in the case of power or condi virtuoso honestly. Both will run dueling in and out of a raid situation which is your crit chance fury uptime line.
Combine this with the fury traits in the virtuoso line and the result is more or less the same.

The only thing that is going to affect your dps beyond this is other boons given to you like might, quickness, alacrity etc. 

But the argument that fury is not there on virtuoso is kind of fleeting at this point because i've pointed out the traits to you and these traits are used in both the power and condition builds. So if you are running a build that does not use those traits the dps loss is your choice at that point and not something anet needs to adjust as you are opting not to take the lines that would provide you with what you are asking for by example of virtuoso. 

Edit-
Lastly take snowcrows as a base guide but with a grain of salt even more so with the new EoD builds. IF a target dies before you can give yourself fury good job there is no problem the target is dead. If the target is alive long enough you will get fury. 
DO NOT stick to snowcrows to the point that you feel you must have EVERYTHING THEY SAY because you dont. Its more than likely that you dont play at the level that the players who make the benchmarks do and even if you do you likely dont play with others who play at that level to support you with the boons you need to reach those numbers. I am not saying you are not a skilled player but do not hold yourself to the strict line that snowcrows writes on the site because most people dont and cant play at that level.

Edited March 30, 2022 by ZDragon.3046

[mungozen.2379]

3 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

I use a raid build virtuoso to solo.

Most raid builds appear to use Dueling with Master Fencer already baked in.  What build are you running that doesn't have this? 

And raid builds are usually based around having Writ of Masterful Accuracy (200 Precision), Spotter (100 Precision) and Banner of Discipline (100 Precision).  That's 400 precision or about 19% Crit you need to make up when making a build for Solo play.  If you aren't making that up with your gear, then Fury uptime isn't going to matter that much anyway, but you appear to know this already.

21 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Virtuoso's Blade generation is built off the back of Critical Damage, this means the Specc geninuely feels Incredibly bad to play without high Crit.

Rampager + Sinister gear will easily get you to 70% Crit, allowing you to take Rune of the Krait and mimic raid builds in open world.

Also don't sleep on Sharpening Sorrow, which gives your F2 Fury on activation, making it a strong opener to chain blade skills into bleed stacks.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 3/28/2022 at 3:58 AM, The Boz.2038 said:

A lot of ANet's design really doesn't work in the "solo DPS" department, they seem to be bumbling about a lot in there.

Vindicator is the first class in a decade that can provide quickness for itself, and only itself, without investing *deeply* into diviner's. Kinda hilarious, isn't it?

Let me tell you about chrono, holo, reaper and harbringer...

Edited March 30, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[The Boz.2038]

Neither of those can self-supply quickness *for only itself* 100% of the time. Reaper has it in shroud, and that's it. Harbinger is yet another team quickness support option. 
Before vindicator, the easiest "full quickness for self" profession were ranger and reaper, and both needed a good amount of diviner gear to get to 100%.

[SeTect.5918]

4 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Neither of those can self-supply quickness *for only itself* 100% of the time. Reaper has it in shroud, and that's it. Harbinger is yet another team quickness support option. 
Before vindicator, the easiest "full quickness for self" profession were ranger and reaper, and both needed a good amount of diviner gear to get to 100%.

Chrono can easily if you take "Illusions" instead of "Domination". It will give perma fury and quickness and almost perma 25 might. 

And the dps lost is also really low. Virtuoso can also take it. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[ZDragon.3046]

7 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Neither of those can self-supply quickness *for only itself* 100% of the time. Reaper has it in shroud, and that's it. Harbinger is yet another team quickness support option. 
Before vindicator, the easiest "full quickness for self" profession were ranger and reaper, and both needed a good amount of diviner gear to get to 100%.

incorrect

 

1. You can run some diviners on vindicator and get 100% self quickness up time i did it the other day actually i was surprised to see it. You honestly don't even need much investment.
2. GS  power chrono can self sustain quickness and high might on itself WITHOUT any DIVINER GEAR  or taking STM at all at the loss of a bit of damage regardless its a very fun open world build to run if interested. You just drop dueling for illusions in that case and pair it with domination. You even get to keep chronotphantasma which is the best part. 
3. Reaper can self sustain quickness WITHOUT DIVINER GEAR if you change your build up which results in overall a moderate drop in outgoing dps but you gain the comfort of having consistent self quickness up time. 
4. Harbinger is kind of the same case as reaper you drop dps for self quickness but naturally you will share it because thats just how the trait works. by the way this too can be done WITHOUT DIVINER or RITUALIST gear.
5. I assume ranger can do quickness too but i dont play enough ranger to know and and i probably never will lol.

 

All of the specs listed here can generate perma self quickness at a trade for some damage in some traits choice or another. Most of them without diviners... i would know because i play the builds in open world for fun.  You could technically also use them in a wonky raid setup where no one is generating shared quickness and just have 3-4 dps push their own and probably do pretty good dps too.

Edited March 31, 2022 by ZDragon.3046

[The Boz.2038]

32 minutes ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

You can run some diviners on vindicator

Vindicator?
Did you forget how this topic started? I claimed Vindicator is the first one that can self-supply quickness with full uptime. It needs diviner to squeeze anything other than quickness into the build, but at least it has that one thing.
Did not know about GSPC, honestly. Don't have a mesmer.
Reaper gets quickness only in shroud. Need diviner if you want any leftover outside. 
Harbinger is a group provider. This is about self-providers only.
Previously, Scrapper counted for a specific short period, thanks to a single rune, but was then turned into a very good group provider..

[ZDragon.3046]

41 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Vindicator?
Did you forget how this topic started? I claimed Vindicator is the first one that can self-supply quickness with full uptime. It needs diviner to squeeze anything other than quickness into the build, but at least it has that one thing.
Did not know about GSPC, honestly. Don't have a mesmer.

The topic started about why selfish dps can give themselves certain boons and i dont think the target boon was ever quickness it was just certain boons that would help in general. As at one point the idea of virtuoso and fury came up....

 

41 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Reaper gets quickness only in shroud. Need diviner if you want any leftover outside. 

 

Nope... you just adjust your build a bit and you can have quickness outside too you just don't know the build and wouldn't have tried it. You cant play the raid rotation in full and you will lose damage for taking the build but it saves you the effort of having to take diviner gear. Like i said i can share the build with you if you want its really not complicated to figure out. Though i wouldn't use it for anything other than solo open world play.

 

41 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Harbinger is a group provider. This is about self-providers only.

 

This is kinda irrelevant but if you are playing solo you are still providing it to yourself so i dont see why it matters. Its more or less the same. 

Naturally any class that provide it to a group can provide it to itself so i don't see why you should exclude them especially the build paths where you take no concentration and can provide yourself with 100% uptime I would say they still count. 

[Mell.4873]

Another thing to note with Virtuoso which I have tested extensively is you don't need 100% critical chance. Getting at least 75% means you will trigger most of the Bleed stacks since this 50-60% of your damage. 10-20% comes from torment, 10% from auto attack. That leaves roughly 30-40% from sources that would benefit from 100% critical chance. 

To be exact with all buffs 35k is very easy to achieve, 30k with Inspiration. It's the last 5k that requires the min-maxing. 

[ZDragon.3046]

15 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Another thing to note with Virtuoso which I have tested extensively is you don't need 100% critical chance. Getting at least 75% means you will trigger most of the Bleed stacks since this 50-60% of your damage. 10-20% comes from torment, 10% from auto attack. That leaves roughly 30-40% from sources that would benefit from 100% critical chance. 

To be exact with all buffs 35k is very easy to achieve, 30k with Inspiration. It's the last 5k that requires the min-maxing. 

Thanks for sharing this info my friend will find it useful.