How is warrior in pvp?

[Gatzy.1043]

I last played when bulls charge, frenzy, and hundred blades would kill people on the spot but I assume that's been changed a long time ago. What builds do people use and what role does warrior play?

[JunkJunk.8971]

I enjoy zerker Axe/Shield and rifle..   But I play unranked because that is where my skills and , cough, age put me..  It is straight forward, gets some kills and does find.

 

I did not enjoy the elite bladesworn..   While it hit hard the mechanic (for me)is just too slow and does not land..  Also no weapon swapping .. boo.. 

 

There is spellbreaker, and that is ok..  I like forcing folks to melee with the final trait in the line.  But does not hit like the zerker elite...

[Arklite.4013]

Most people on this forum will tell you that warrior is terrible and the balance team hates us, which is half true. Warrior isn't exactly "good" but it's certainly not bad. You have to work harder than a lot of other specs for the same payoff. Berserker has very limited competitive viability but Spellbreaker, Bladesworn, and even Core are fine. Spellbreaker remains the tanky, bursty duelist it has been for years. The support build with shouts (colloquially known as Healbreaker) regained some competitive viability with the recent buffs. Bladesworn also has a competent shout/support build and can take on a duelist/DPS role as well (Boyce and Naru frequently play these if you want to see them). Bladesworn (and especially Dragon Trigger) aren't nearly as bad as people on this forum act like it is - it has all the makings of a decent spec. You can easily reach plat with any warrior spec except Berserker.

 

To more concisely answer your question, these are the main iterations of warrior for competitive play currently:

Spellbreaker - Duelist (GS/dagger+shield) or shout support (typically sword+warhorn/dagger+shield)

Bladesworn - Shout support or duelist/DPS (anything from sword+warhorn, axe+shield, GS, hammer, and rifle)

Edited April 2, 2022 by Arklite.4013

[Lysico.4906]

Blades sworn using a rifle??????   What is the use for melee??

[Arklite.4013]

4 minutes ago, Lysico.4906 said:

Blades sworn using a rifle??????   What is the use for melee??

It's definitely the least conventional of the options listed, but it isn't terrible. You have decent ranged pressure when you get pushed off node or to compete with things like mechanist. Between the gunsaber and dragon trigger you have more than enough melee damage anyway.

[Lysico.4906]

Ahhhh so gun saber is you melee option.    Migh5 try it

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

I used the marauder stats recently with Greatsword and Hammer as a Spellbreaker. It was good. I killed a lot. Won some 2v1's during the matches, may've been lackluster opponents but still, a win's a win.

If your getting back into it with warrior, I'd recommend Spellbreaker because of the great defensive option of [Full Counter]. It can be used while fighting to interrupt and boon strip or while you run away from a bad fight, be used to block incoming attacks.

But ranged is also good since it will put you on the backline and you can watch more, learn more. If you take rifle, I recommend having [Lesser Signet of Might] to get the unblockable buff from it so that you don't get blocked or worse, reflected. I don't know any build besides using berserker stats to make rifle good. But berserker stats is squishy. Use at your won risk.

[Hotride.2187]

Bladesworn aside (I've not played it, looks like your average GW2 spam skills spec)...

If you are good, its OK. Not great but OK. You can get to p2 in conquest. In wvw roaming its versatile if you can switch between str spb and core tactics/str/disci. I use spb most of the time, but for tanky condis (that don't spam boons) I switch to core. Also vs good thieves.

If you are not good and you don't plan on improving, you are probably better off playing something else. Power ranger or reaper maybe.

[Apolo.5942]

Dont do it, unless you are in for some serious punishment, just do yourself a favor and play something else.

Everyone here in denial has explained that if you are good enough, you can do okish.

That is some serious beat wife syndrome going ... "it aint so bad, its good in the inside...".

Edited April 2, 2022 by Apolo.5942

[Grand Marshal.4098]

9 minutes ago, Apolo.5942 said:

Dont do it, unless you are in for some serious punishment, just do yourself a favor and play something else.

Everyone here in denial has explained that if you are good enough, you can do okish.

That is some serious beat wife syndrome going ... "it aint so bad, its good in the inside...".

lmao!!!

[Yerlock.4678]

War is an excellent noob buster, and Spellbreaker and Bladeweeb is considerable in ranked. However its definitely not quite there, and if you remember the glory days of 2013-14 you'll most likely be disappointed. Stab in particular and Defense being gutted with it's stances really shows it's ugly head.

Where it shines, it shines amazingly. But where it doesn't, it's bleak as hell. For beginners and mid range play it's a blast, for the upper echelons of pvp though... No. It's bad. Holo is better, as is Mech.

[Hotride.2187]

6 hours ago, Apolo.5942 said:

Everyone here in denial has explained that if you are good enough, you can do okish.

That is some serious beat wife syndrome going ... "it aint so bad, its good in the inside...".

Well it really depends on your opponents... War has many tools, especially on spb. They just fall short a lot of the time if you don't time them and space them well. So if your opponents kite well, a fight doesn't go too well. But conquest has the circle so if anyone wants to contest they have to be in the circle. No1 will run away that much from you like in wvw, with superspeed or even just swiftness, to wait for their next dmg vomit CD sequence.

So that leaves you fighting tanky specs like ranger, memser, ele if you are on the side node. Unfortunately all 3 are better at holding a node than war is, at least 1v1. And at plat rating the wars you will run into at side node are almost always very good players (add on top how rare a good spb is - getting experience in the mirror duel is not easy).

If you are at the team fight... you still have some tools, but almost no aoe. You can do good just less than the meta specs. I've seen and I've read about using bladesworn for team fights, I think that can work. It has some aoes and brings some shouts support even as dps. It got buffed recently too, so that its dmg shouldn't be that bad. Though again,  it will likely get nerfed.

In wvw I think wars main feature right now (after winds nerf) is that it can usually run away from fights. There are many mobile specs though, so not a big feature... And IMO some stealth is a better way of running away than just pure mobility (war has no stealth).

I'd say what is going for war is the gameplay - move in, burst, move out, in precise sequences. I didn't stop playing war despite it being mediocre, because I like the gameplay a lot.

[Apolo.5942]

16 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Well it really depends on your opponents... War has many tools, especially on spb. They just fall short a lot of the time if you don't time them and space them well. So if your opponents kite well, a fight doesn't go too well. But conquest has the circle so if anyone wants to contest they have to be in the circle. No1 will run away that much from you like in wvw, with superspeed or even just swiftness, to wait for their next dmg vomit CD sequence.

So that leaves you fighting tanky specs like ranger, memser, ele if you are on the side node. Unfortunately all 3 are better at holding a node than war is, at least 1v1. And at plat rating the wars you will run into at side node are almost always very good players (add on top how rare a good spb is - getting experience in the mirror duel is not easy).

If you are at the team fight... you still have some tools, but almost no aoe. You can do good just less than the meta specs. I've seen and I've read about using bladesworn for team fights, I think that can work. It has some aoes and brings some shouts support even as dps. It got buffed recently too, so that its dmg shouldn't be that bad. Though again,  it will likely get nerfed.

In wvw I think wars main feature right now (after winds nerf) is that it can usually run away from fights. There are many mobile specs though, so not a big feature... And IMO some stealth is a better way of running away than just pure mobility (war has no stealth).

I'd say what is going for war is the gameplay - move in, burst, move out, in precise sequences. I didn't stop playing war despite it being mediocre, because I like the gameplay a lot.

Sooo much text to explain how warrior sucks.......
-First its gets owned by proper use of AWSD keys... not a great start.

-Second, most tank specs out tank it, kitten follow up.

-Third, you lack AOE in team fights, it keeps getting "better".

-Fourth, your main WvW tool is running away from fights, awesome, that clearly seals the deal.

 

Every other answer in here is a rationalization on how if you are really awesome at the game, get favorable match ups and the enemy sucks, then warrior is not so bad... and how that does NOT exactly describe how much the warrior sucks. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by Apolo.5942

[felix.2386]

if you like to be lower rating then other people of the same skill level at all time and all levels, sure, go play warrior.

lol.

[Gatzy.1043]

if warrior has been not so great for a while now, and it seems like that's the consensus, why hasn't arena net buffed it? do other classes think we're actually a strong class?

[Hotride.2187]

7 hours ago, Apolo.5942 said:

Sooo much text to explain how warrior sucks.......

 It sucks if you don't play it well. If you play well, it will fall short of the meta specs (again no idea about bladesworn). It not on the sucking level, its on the OK-ish level (assuming you play the best builds). You can have fun with it even at equal skill levels to your opponents... you'll have to sweat though. Better players will ofc trash you, you have no padding like other professions.

1 hour ago, Gatzy.1043 said:

if warrior has been not so great for a while now, and it seems like that's the consensus, why hasn't arena net buffed it? do other classes think we're actually a strong class?

I wouldn't put any hope in that, I doubt the studio has time or understanding how to fix war problems. At most they'll nerf bladesworn sustain (possibly making core and spb even worse) and buff its damage (but only bladesworn crap) to be barely playable in the meta. And then you'll get mains of other professions "well just play bladesworn if you want to play war". And that will be that.

But who knows maybe they'll invest like 1k development hours to fix their buggy/broken game, so that skills like rush and leap actually land, so that a single stat like concentration doesn't break half the game and so on.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

1 hour ago, Gatzy.1043 said:

if warrior has been not so great for a while now, and it seems like that's the consensus, why hasn't arena net buffed it? do other classes think we're actually a strong class?

Warrior is good. It just isn't great and lacks what the other classes have in options whether it is boons, damage mitigation or just plain synergy between skills and traits.

[Vancho.8750]

4 hours ago, Gatzy.1043 said:

if warrior has been not so great for a while now, and it seems like that's the consensus, why hasn't arena net buffed it? do other classes think we're actually a strong class?

Warrior is way too simple mechanically , which is good at the start but levels out at some point and the boon of simplicity becomes a drawback when people become competent, so it becomes harder to play since you lack options to situations like other professions.

You really have to commit to something to be effective.

For example Berserker was doing well by being good bruiser with great damage on the Defense/Discipline/Berserker build but everyone complained that it beat them in its chosen purpose of battle "it was carried by passives nieh nieh".

Arenanet made the Spellbreaker then and it was all actives, it was good only for sidenoding but people still complained and it got nerfed, we had some rework on Berserker that just pump its damage but nerfed the defense and people ran with it even if it wasn't that good and it got nerfed cause people got very dead fast from a spec made to do a lot of damage and nothing else.
Then we had the Healbreaker that healed with a full bar of only shouts ,  cceed with Fullcounter and ressed people with banner, that is all it did and people still complained since a single purpose build beat their multipurpose builds.

I do not understand why Arenanet is so against single purpose builds, if they have  problem with that it could have been good idea to give warrior some versatility to perform in different ways, so it isn't bogged down every time they release new patch and you can fall back to some other build if they decided that the kitten they delivered is broken.      

[Fueki.4753]

11 hours ago, Gatzy.1043 said:

if warrior has been not so great for a while now, and it seems like that's the consensus, why hasn't arena net buffed it? do other classes think we're actually a strong class?

It's very likely Arenanet simply doesn't want to properly bring Warrior up to modern standards.

At least that's what Arenanet has shown us time and time again with their necessary nerfs to Warrior.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

22 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

It's very likely Arenanet simply doesn't want to properly bring Warrior up to modern standards.

They actually did with Bladesworn believe it or not.

Bladesworn has most of our bursts in [Dragon Trigger] and can sustain itself like other classes can. It now puts warrior with the modern standard when it comes to classes.  

I don't believe that but I think Anet does.

I would've rather have had core fixed but I'm pretty sure Anet patted themselves on the back when they made Bladesworn. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

21 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Bladesworn has most of our bursts in [Dragon Trigger] and can sustain itself like other classes can. It now puts warrior with the modern standard when it comes to classes.   

Think carefully about how much combat gameplay, movement, and utility slots you give up just to live in a fight, which is something that has been afforded to every other class from the game's creation going forward just as a baseline. 

The answer is all of it. 

On 4/3/2022 at 3:05 AM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Warrior is good. It just isn't great and lacks what the other classes have in options whether it is boons, damage mitigation or just plain synergy between skills and traits.

Core warrior/Spellbreaker  is all high level play(timing dodges, bating animations, landing CC in order to do damage and the option selects that follow those), no padding.

Bladesworn is all padding, no high level play. If HP is low, press shout button. if HP is high, press dragon trigger button and press 1,2, or 3 based on where opponent is.

 

A good class archetype has both of those..

Edited April 4, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

A good class archetype has both of those..

Wrong. A good class wins. Warrior can still win.

But can a warrior win at all levels? No. So, it isn't a great class. A great class has a fair chance at every level in every game mode.

Warrior does not have the same kind of chance that the other classes have. It remains good but not great.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

40 minutes ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Wrong. A good class wins. Warrior can still win.

But can a warrior win at all levels? No. So, it isn't a great class. A great class has a fair chance at every level in every game mode.

Warrior does not have the same kind of chance that the other classes have. It remains good but not great.

If you give me a stick that does one damage, I can win vs anything that takes damage from that stick given enough time and enough passivity from whatever I am hitting with it.

Does that make that stick a good weapon?

Your threshold for what makes a class good is startlingly low. There is a difference between "existing" and "good"..

Being able to win a fight depends as much on your opponent's behavior as it does on yours. You can win with warrior, but it requires your opponent to be similarly restricted, critically underestimate you, not make use of significant tools at their disposal, or all three. If your class magically fails to be serviceable when someone exhibits reasonable competence, it's not "good". It's a dumb check. A class only begins to be good when it has the framework to build on top of "what happens if my opponent knows to dodge this animation?" without the answer being "lose because all your damage is gated behind landing it."

Not that any of that matters. If "great" is what warrior needs to be defined as to have a shot at all levels, then that is what should be aimed for anyway, and it doesn't need much to get there which makes this buffing of hammer and bladesworn all the more frustrating. 

Edited April 4, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

If you give me a stick that does one damage, I can win vs anything that takes damage from that stick given enough time and enough passivity from whatever I am hitting with it.

Does that make that stick a good weapon?

Your threshold for what makes a class good is startlingly low. There is a difference between "existing" and "good"..

Pure sophistry. Context matters.

We're agreeing on warrior needs rework or further balancing but you're arguing definitions and meanings.

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

it doesn't need much to get there

This is truth and nothing but the truth. All warrior mains knows this to be true.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 4/4/2022 at 12:54 PM, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

We're agreeing on warrior needs rework or further balancing but you're arguing definitions and meanings.

Yeah we agree that warrior needs further balancing. I am only arguing definition because you seem to think warrior is "good, but not great." And I -keep hearing that- for some reason. So I wanna ask, 'by what metric?'  Is it good because Bladesworn isn't dying hard in pvp? Is it good because if you press the 1 key someone gets hit for 2k if you spec glass? Is it good because if someone doesn't have a cursory understanding of its animations and what they do, it can down them?

Quote

Pure sophistry. Context matters.

Yes. That's the point. 

And what I'm telling you, given that, is that the context in which warrior currently exists does not fit or justify its current balancing state as -good- , and that your definition of good would have to be almost all encompassing for warrior in its current form to fit its criteria. 

It has a pointy stick in a world of monsters that counter its pointy stick with mechanics that don't require them to get in range of its pointy stick. And even if through some clever sequence of events the warrior manages to circumvent both the mechanics and the range requirement, the damage delivery is mitigatable enough that its opponents can reset and make them do it again.

How is that sophist? Point to what makes it good. You can ignore me framing it as a stick if you want. I may agree with you on the general balancing direction, but seeing as how we both agree:

Quote

it doesn't need much to get there

I'd like to hear what you think. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261