The Crux of Why Getting 25% Damage Boost Does Not Improve the Untamed

[Criminal.5627]

Improving the player damage by 25% does not improve anything because it does not offer any synergy with any mechanic that the Untamed has in the toolkit. 

 

That is essentially it. It would be comparable to something like buffing the Necromancer staff skills by 25% damage with the reasoning of improving the use of the staff over other weapons for in-game content. Farther thoughts below from based on the perspective of having a main character as a ranger since the betas in 2012.

 

Currently there is no way to compete in a pve aspect on damage or utility due to the short windows of assassinate skills, the pet gaining no real advantage over a core ranger pet while unleashed (the damage output of an Unleashed pet is abysmal and we should not pretend it is more than it really is, the jag even with the ferocity bonus from "stalking" only crits around 13K avg while unleashed with the beastmaster trait line), the heal skill, utilities, and elite are all selfish skills that do not promote synergy with a group of other players preventing it from being beneficial to 5 or 10 man content (even as a tank, other classes are preferred due to the sharing of boons and ability to incorporate support roles into their toolkits), there is no core ranger offensive elite that can carry the elite spec by offering unique boons in group play or adding to the synergy of a group as "Strength of the Pack" would be good if it shared across the entire 5 man party but the entire elite is made irrelevant as in any 5-50 man groups you will already have the boons provided by this elite by a support role ally that can keep them up with more consistency than the ranger elite can, the pet is still not responsive to stopping attacks when using the return command even while passive (try doing the Zen Daijun's maze solo and enjoy the experience of using Venomous Outburst on your target after loosing your pet in the maze somewhere to only watch your pet run off after being teleported to your target and you spamming return and it being on passive). Even the trait line has no synergy with other trait lines. There is no improvement with two handed mastery causing an effect on hammers, Moment of Clarity does not work on multi hit skills like the assassinate skills. even the assassinate skills vastly under preform and are difficult to pull off for even a low end payout. There is also almost no reason to maintain a constant swamping of the unleashed buff to trigger the assassinate skills as the pet does not gain any significant damage increase from a core ranger pet by being unleashed and the ranger loses 25% of their current damage output.

 

The CC in the toolkit is great don't get me wrong, the survivability is great too... but that is not what this game is built off of, there are timers we need to make within the game and there are other players we need to cooperate with in order to do a vast majority of content. The argument that Untamed should not be able to do DPS because it is a Survival kit and the Soulbeast was already the dps toolkit for ranger is as flawed as saying the Willbender should not be able to heal or dps because both the Firebrand and the Dragonhunter toolkits were designed to be a support kit or a dps kit, or that the Catalyst should not be a dps spec because the Weaver was a dps spec.

 

The lack of options for any viable DPS spec that does not also rely on the Soulbeast is also disheartening for the majority of content. Weirdly enough, there are players that actually enjoy "pet classes" and would rather see the pets for rangers function well and be able to use them well for big payoffs, but that is not a possibility in the current standing of the game. The engineer Mechanist already has better pet integration than the ranger pets by allowing stat sharing in order to boost the effectiveness of it's mech while ranger pets are locked into stat sets that don't always make sense for the individual pet to have. Another significant advantage of the stat sharing with pets is that the pet gains benefits from boons on the player from due to the sharing of the core stats instead of excluding the pets from benefiting from group buffs and boons. So the mech of the Mechanist gains benefits from group buffs on the Mechanist without having to do anything additional where the pet for the Rangers, regardless of spec, gains no benefit as they are not included in the distribution of group buffs, and the ranger, if wanting to offer any of the boons they have to the pet in order to increase the effectiveness of the pet, needs to sacrifice their heal skill and incorporate it into a rotation which already puts them at a survivability and dps disadvantage. There is also a Wide range of pets that nearly every spec of the ranger does not even touch in all/most aspects of the game because other pets have significantly better utility or combat opportunities that they offer (this is akin to playing pokemon and having all of those pokemon you never use or interact with sitting in one of your storage boxes on the pc for the life of your save game). The dumb thing is that it wouldn't take much to fix the seldom used pets such as the majority of those that are ranged by adjusting for the slow and hard to hit projectiles, by making them seriously hurt IF they hit. we are at the point in the game where we should be seeing pets hit 16K or more, base (non-crit), in pve, to maintain a level of competition with other classes. Another thing about ranged pets though is that they don't function well for the Untamed's pet skills when they are unleashed when there is any movement by a foe as their auto attack is ranged and besides Venomous Outburst they will not maintain a distance to have a payoff with either Rending Vines or Enveloping Haze.

 

I also get Soulbeast was weak on the launch of PoF, and druid had a decent condi build after a few patches, but it has been a consistent thing for rangers to be under powered at the launch of an expansion and it is really a labor of love to stay with it while watching other classes show their flexibility and greater effectiveness for months or longer, repeatedly, on each expansion. I am also still not over the healing output nerf that druid took with the current state of other support classes considering it may now be something that will possibly hurt the standing of players that main a ranger from being able to get into high end content should the effectiveness of spirits diminish as those boons are essentially why they are desired at this point as a heal ele can far outpace a druid in heals and there are other options for 5 man might.  Additionally, I am still not over removing the ability of spirits being able to walk and fallow the ranger around as that was the first change that outright killed an entire, viable, well preforming, core ranger condi spec in pve, pvp, and wvw.

 

Frankly I know there needs to be a lot of work at the base level and up, if anyone wants to try to list possible "fixes" to specific things we struggle from here, be my guest. I just hope things balance out in the end.

Edited April 4, 2022 by Criminal.5627

[Jeremy.2804]

Here are a few thoughts on this subject PVE wise.
Specializations:
Beast Mastery
The beast mastery traits (Pack Alpha) don't seem to reduce the cooldown of the unleashed pet skills. 
This trait line feels like the one you should pick but the damage you gain is meh. No idea how to fix this without impacting soulbeast.

 

Skirmish:
This one is alright no issues with this one. Slots in nicely.

 

Marksmanship:
This has good synergy with Untamed and the whole cc and then do cool stuff. Very fun in open world.

But the damage does not translate well to strikes/single boss encounters.

Pet:
The unleashed pet skills do less damage then most normal pet skills. I feel like when I unleash my pet there should be a bigger payoff. Right now all of the pets have the same unleashed skills, there definitely could be at least one different unleashed skills per pet sub type. For example ferocity pet would just do big damage, etc. Again not all three F skills should be different but maybe the unleashed F3 can be changed depending on what pet you are using. Or if that is too much work just give different boons/conditions based on what pet type you have.

Hammer: I like the hammer.

Unleashed: All of these have good coefficients. It would be nice if a one of them had boon share with you and your pet.

Some of these do increased damage to disabled foes which is great in open world and pvp but doesn't translate to bosses.

Pet unleashed hammer skills: I only use the 3/5 to trigger traits then swap out. I feel like the other skills are okay in pvp for the weakness and cripple. No issues with this to be honest. It is nice to have access to a wide range of abilities even though some of them you don't use often.

Overall damage: I can't find it. I feel like this is a core ranger problem.

 

1) None of our elite skills do strike damage. And Untamed elite does not do strike damage.

2) Make the pet skills be able to have auto cast. This would be a nice QoL change.
3)We Heal as one is used without needed it just to share boons to our pet to make it do more damage. Feels a little bad. But great for soulbeast.
4)If untamed is going to have support dps 30kish then give it some support options.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cytoplasma.8216]

23 hours ago, Criminal.5627 said:

The argument that Untamed should not be able to do DPS because it is a Survival kit and the Soulbeast was already the dps toolkit for ranger is as flawed as saying the Willbender should not be able to heal or dps because both the Firebrand and the Dragonhunter toolkits were designed to be a support kit or a dps kit, or that the Catalyst should not be a dps spec because the Weaver was a dps spec.

 

that's exactly what I scold people over and over again can't give an argument - untamed is tank class and is not supposed to do dmg as long as I know the game well, all tank classes are also support and give out boons to their allies while I am not giving away anything at all.

 

besides, I agree with most of your comments. the mass of the trait does not match and does not work together. and the last point that I will also repeat.

 

arena net employees

imagine someone is just buying a game with the addition of eod. He chooses a ranger as his first class - he likes this style of play, loves nature. after applying the specialization, it turns out that he does not have access to pve content - he can not play new strike mission or go to fractals with friends because he does not contribute anything to the group and he does damage equal to the support they do - i.e. intimidatingly low

[Kaenaydar.5631]

2 hours ago, Cytoplasma.8216 said:

 

that's exactly what I scold people over and over again can't give an argument - untamed is tank class and is not supposed to do dmg as long as I know the game well, all tank classes are also support and give out boons to their allies while I am not giving away anything at all.

 

besides, I agree with most of your comments. the mass of the trait does not match and does not work together. and the last point that I will also repeat.

 

arena net employees

imagine someone is just buying a game with the addition of eod. He chooses a ranger as his first class - he likes this style of play, loves nature. after applying the specialization, it turns out that he does not have access to pve content - he can not play new strike mission or go to fractals with friends because he does not contribute anything to the group and he does damage equal to the support they do - i.e. intimidatingly low

Heck i hear it all the time on Untamed my dps isnt high enough and people boot me. EOD in my mind was suppose to be a pet focused class for a character that went marauder and berserker gear mix like myself. I didnt care for Soul Beast and to me druid is more a condi class and healer class. Untamed for me was meant to be a improved core ranger where i could keep up with other peoples demands. As things stand Untamed is replaceable with some other classes that just do things better then we can do. I want to main untamed be able to raid do fractals and strikes as well as pve. However as it stands now Untamed is just lacking any role for people to forgive its low damage output and always compared to Soul Beast which isnt a good comparison. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Kaenaydar.5631

[Lazze.9870]

I almosy find it funny that anyone expected this "pet focused spec" to be anywhere near decent as a dps option. Power core ranger wasn't either, with MM, Skrim and BM. The fundamental problems are the same.

Buff core ranger in pve for the pet lovers that for some reason like the idea that a pet is autoattacking behind all the visual noise in pve. Make untamed actually viable in wvw where it had some potential. That would be the sensible choice.

However, I assume they're gonna keep adding damage to untamed in pve while adding some random boons here and there to make it decent.

[Mell.4873]

I think it has the opposite problem to Virtuoso. Untamed is amazing PvP but sucks PvE although I do use it open world farming.

Well anyway that was my take away. I switched most of soulbeast builds over to untamed even for WvW. It does have less damage but I can nutty things like being able to stealth almost permanently with Longbow with a mix of weapon swapping + trait, ambush and CC.

[Jeremy.2804]

4 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

I almosy find it funny that anyone expected this "pet focused spec" to be anywhere near decent as a dps option. Power core ranger wasn't either, with MM, Skrim and BM. The fundamental problems are the same.

Buff core ranger in pve for the pet lovers that for some reason like the idea that a pet is autoattacking behind all the visual noise in pve. Make untamed actually viable in wvw where it had some potential. That would be the sensible choice.

However, I assume they're gonna keep adding damage to untamed in pve while adding some random boons here and there to make it decent.

I don't think anyone considered untamed to be pet focused. Mechanist is a pet focused class.

IMO, untamed is supposed to be about you and your pet going back and forth with skills and fighting in tandem. 

 

And don't get me wrong it works great in open world.

Between 2 pets there are 9 skills you can command the pet to do. 

You can mismatch pets to suit your needs. Between different types of cc and combo fields you can do with your pet it feels great.

I think I just want a reason to play untamed in instanced pve instead of soulbeast or druid.

 

More damage?
Quickness or alacrity?

Spirit rework?

Go all out on WvW?

 

 

 

[Cytoplasma.8216]

7 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I think it has the opposite problem to Virtuoso. Untamed is amazing PvP but sucks PvE although I do use it open world farming.

And you playing untamed on pvp ? 

Untamed isn't that good. 

U have much better option in new class - like specter which is good too on pve content. 

[Rider.6024]

Its incredible with the 15% from marks trait, I mean thats perma 50% with 2 traits!

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

1 hour ago, Rider.6024 said:

Its incredible with the 15% from marks trait, I mean thats perma 50% with 2 traits!

It still doesn't do enough damage. And even if it did, soulbeast provides a group dps increase via One Wolf Pack. It'd be permanent 40% with Vow of the Untamed and Opening Strike, 50% if increasing the OS damage. 

 

And it also provides nothing for the group, doesn't help the pet much (and it was advertised to be an 'in tandem' thing, which requires a pet rework as this point), and doesn't do enough dps to outpace the bursts of power soulbeasts or outpace the damage of condi soulbeast.

[Kaenaydar.5631]

17 hours ago, Jeremy.2804 said:

I don't think anyone considered untamed to be pet focused. Mechanist is a pet focused class.

IMO, untamed is supposed to be about you and your pet going back and forth with skills and fighting in tandem. 

 

And don't get me wrong it works great in open world.

Between 2 pets there are 9 skills you can command the pet to do. 

You can mismatch pets to suit your needs. Between different types of cc and combo fields you can do with your pet it feels great.

I think I just want a reason to play untamed in instanced pve instead of soulbeast or druid.

 

More damage?
Quickness or alacrity?

Spirit rework?

Go all out on WvW?

 

 

 

Untamed is great solo pve i am working on Aurora legendary. Been watching with my longbow my pet and me in untamed shred mobs hp compared to my core Ranger set up. Really only seems to hurt in group play atm. I used Untamed all through EOD as well and it wrecked a lot of metas and story mode.

What i pictured and wish EOD would do is make what pet seemed in my mind to be by video. Ranger and pet are a team based combat spec.  If they added a autocast to pets be nice for QOL however. In my mind and still there the spec is suppose to be me and my pet doing good damage. 

Here is how i seen the Elite specs. Druid is the healer spec and debuffer. Soul Beast is the i dont need my pet anymore spec. Untamed is the pet and i work together to give enemies we are fighting a rough time and the next step for people who prefered core but wanted a damage spec. Before EOD i stuck mostly with core ranger because how i liked to fight. Untamed was the next level for core Ranger.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Kaenaydar.5631

[Kaenaydar.5631]

9 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

It still doesn't do enough damage. And even if it did, soulbeast provides a group dps increase via One Wolf Pack. It'd be permanent 40% with Vow of the Untamed and Opening Strike, 50% if increasing the OS damage. 

 

And it also provides nothing for the group, doesn't help the pet much (and it was advertised to be an 'in tandem' thing, which requires a pet rework as this point), and doesn't do enough dps to outpace the bursts of power soulbeasts or outpace the damage of condi soulbeast.

 

9 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

It still doesn't do enough damage. And even if it did, soulbeast provides a group dps increase via One Wolf Pack. It'd be permanent 40% with Vow of the Untamed and Opening Strike, 50% if increasing the OS damage. 

 

And it also provides nothing for the group, doesn't help the pet much (and it was advertised to be an 'in tandem' thing, which requires a pet rework as this point), and doesn't do enough dps to outpace the bursts of power soulbeasts or outpace the damage of condi soulbeast.

The pet in fractals isnt doing enough damage to compliment the untamed character. Then the people notice our class isnt doing enough to support the group in dps. I think Untamed should be buffing both me and the pet. Pet gets the untamed buff it should buff its huge damage. Lets take mechanist for example their pets people can see huge damage. Untamed should make our pets the same way when they get the buff. Then i get the damage when i get it. Stats for pet being unleashed doesnt change at all. That in my mind would make a true partnership in Untamed where the pet and the beastmaster are the driving force.

 

I came up with this last night buff adds 100 strike and condi damage to whoever has it maybe some more crit and whatever compliments condi. I am not saying 100 on stats as a req but you should notice a jump in stats as well as damage. Currently the Unleashed does nothing to the pet aside from changing skills. People should be like ok Unleashed on pet that means its making the damage the ranger isnt. They see it gone from pet means ok now the ranger has the damage. They see both me and pet doing high damage numbers theyed think ok they are a team. Could be because i have aspergers but when i seen the video was like ok its a teamwork based spec. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Kaenaydar.5631

[Lazze.9870]

On 4/6/2022 at 4:05 PM, Jeremy.2804 said:

I don't think anyone considered untamed to be pet focused.

Some thought it would be, some wanted it to be.

On 4/6/2022 at 4:05 PM, Jeremy.2804 said:

IMO, untamed is supposed to be about you and your pet going back and forth with skills and fighting in tandem. 

You can have that with all specs, even soulbeast (more so than core and druid the way I see it, but people don't see proper merging and unmerging as working in tandem). 

That's how to maximize the use of the class unless you're in an enviroment where simply permamerging is better. That's also the downfall of the class, and asking for "stronger" pets or even more reliance on AI isn't gonna yield successful results. The game isn't built for it.

8 hours ago, Kaenaydar.5631 said:

Lets take mechanist for example their pets people can see huge damage. Untamed should make our pets the same way when they get the buff.

Don't you think there is something wrong when you have to ask for an elite spec to offer what a different elite spec is doing, when the latter is based on the core class of the former?

Mechanist should never have been a thing. Core ranger should have had a different mechanic, and the pet mechanic should have been offered through an elite spec for ranger like what engineer got. To balance it properly, and stop muddying the water for every other ranger spec. Because that's what it is doing.

Given the next expac continues with elite specs, I wonder if they, for the fourth time, are going to give us what is fundamentally the same pet mechanic yet again with some F5 quirk added to it and essentially the same problem as all the other specs (with the exception of the one spec that can opt to permamerge and sort of get away with it).

Edited April 7, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

2 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Some thought it would be, some wanted it to be.

You can have that with all specs, even soulbeast (more so than core and druid the way I see it, but people don't see proper merging and unmerging as working in tandem). 

That's how to maximize the use of the class unless you're in an enviroment where simply permamerging is better. That's also the downfall of the class, and asking for "stronger" pets or even more reliance on AI isn't gonna yield successful results. The game isn't built for it.

Don't you think there is something wrong when you have to ask for an elite spec to offer what a different elite spec is doing, when the latter is based on the core class of the former?

Mechanist should never have been a thing. Core ranger should have had a different mechanic, and the pet mechanic should have been offered through an elite spec for ranger like what engineer got. To balance it properly, and stop muddying the water for every other ranger spec. Because that's what it is doing.

Given the next expac continues with elite specs, I wonder if they, for the fourth time, are going to give us what is fundamentally the same pet mechanic yet again with some F5 quirk added to it and essentially the same problem as all the other specs (with the exception of the one spec that can opt to permamerge and sort of get away with it).

While your argument is definetly a lot in the past, I do want to point out how bad of an idea unmerging with soulbeast currently is. Unless you're playing a very specific, niche build that for whatever reason ABSOLUTELY needs the single pet F2 you'll have, there is 0 value in unmerging in combat. You can't switch from warthog to bristleback to fire off a rain of spikes and sharpen spines, only to go back to warthog for CC while playing the condi build, or switching between rock gazelle for CC and red moa for damage on the power build. This isn't a pet synergizing spec because they removed the part that helps make the ranger synergize with the pet by literally being part pet.

 

They advertised untamed as something where you work with pets well. You'd expect them to, you know, make this actually work, with damage increases being flipped between the unleashed targets, or with big boon spreading and sharing when unleashing eachother.

 

Asking for stronger pets absolutely works, look at mechanist. Not even stronger pets on core- just give us what mechanists got, but on the untamed traits. That gives us a fix for not having a strong pet spec, and it even opens avenues for making unleashing actually worth it with bigger bonuses when the pet is unleashed.

 

 

However, part of why many pets are so bad is because half their stats are bugged, quickness and alacrity don't always properly work on them, and many of them are just redundant, have bad skills (or even just bad coefficients), or have skills that would be functionally useful if they didn't have some single bad factor hurting them (phoenix- it has an amazing sounding f2 attack in Gale Blast, however the beam sweeping hurts the damage on it immensely with a cooldown that is not worth the damage or the possibility of the pet being bodied due to its frailty). Fixing pets themselves would help a lot of core pet's viability without screwing over balance, and could even actually make untamed somewhat useful as you could have a moa (even a utility one) that also provides some decent damage similar to soulbeast's merged F2. With how families and even archetypes work it wouldn't be too difficult to fix these things one at a time.

[Kaenaydar.5631]

1 hour ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

While your argument is definetly a lot in the past, I do want to point out how bad of an idea unmerging with soulbeast currently is. Unless you're playing a very specific, niche build that for whatever reason ABSOLUTELY needs the single pet F2 you'll have, there is 0 value in unmerging in combat. You can't switch from warthog to bristleback to fire off a rain of spikes and sharpen spines, only to go back to warthog for CC while playing the condi build, or switching between rock gazelle for CC and red moa for damage on the power build. This isn't a pet synergizing spec because they removed the part that helps make the ranger synergize with the pet by literally being part pet.

 

They advertised untamed as something where you work with pets well. You'd expect them to, you know, make this actually work, with damage increases being flipped between the unleashed targets, or with big boon spreading and sharing when unleashing eachother.

 

Asking for stronger pets absolutely works, look at mechanist. Not even stronger pets on core- just give us what mechanists got, but on the untamed traits. That gives us a fix for not having a strong pet spec, and it even opens avenues for making unleashing actually worth it with bigger bonuses when the pet is unleashed.

 

 

However, part of why many pets are so bad is because half their stats are bugged, quickness and alacrity don't always properly work on them, and many of them are just redundant, have bad skills (or even just bad coefficients), or have skills that would be functionally useful if they didn't have some single bad factor hurting them (phoenix- it has an amazing sounding f2 attack in Gale Blast, however the beam sweeping hurts the damage on it immensely with a cooldown that is not worth the damage or the possibility of the pet being bodied due to its frailty). Fixing pets themselves would help a lot of core pet's viability without screwing over balance, and could even actually make untamed somewhat useful as you could have a moa (even a utility one) that also provides some decent damage similar to soulbeast's merged F2. With how families and even archetypes work it wouldn't be too difficult to fix these things one at a time.

Couldnt agree more hell lets be honest the EOD pets kinda sucked. I got all the new EOD pets and i still rely on my smokescale and fire wyvern. I think you said my point more easily then i could of.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Kaenaydar.5631

[Lazze.9870]

On 4/7/2022 at 9:12 PM, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

While your argument is definetly a lot in the past, I do want to point out how bad of an idea unmerging with soulbeast currently is. Unless you're playing a very specific, niche build that for whatever reason ABSOLUTELY needs the single pet F2 you'll have, there is 0 value in unmerging in combat. You can't switch from warthog to bristleback to fire off a rain of spikes and sharpen spines, only to go back to warthog for CC while playing the condi build, or switching between rock gazelle for CC and red moa for damage on the power build. This isn't a pet synergizing spec because they removed the part that helps make the ranger synergize with the pet by literally being part pet.

Great job completely disregarding how this game consists of gamemodes outside of PvE where proper use of merging and unmerging and indeed working in tandem with the pet mechanic is actually relevant. PvP and WvW roaming, where the combat in this game actually shines.

I don't get why this so hard for people to fathom. When I'm talking about proper use of merging and unmerging, isn't it obvious that I'm talking about the game as a whole and not the permarmged PvE meta? I mean, I'm not surprised when you think you have to explain that unmerging for PvE endgame content is worthless, because, of course it is. Because the pet is worthless for PvE endgame.

On 4/7/2022 at 9:12 PM, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Asking for stronger pets absolutely works, look at mechanist.

Why do you think I'd prefer it if the core ranger mechanic was an elite spec similar to what mechanist is? Two reasons: 1) it doesn't muddy the water of other elite specs, where druid currently has the shortest end of the stick, and 2) the "pets" can be balanced within the parameters of the elite spec itself.

End result? Core probably gets a more flexible mechanic and every subsequent elite specs benefit from it, while the masochists that wants to play with an AI gets a proper spec tailored for it.

The mechanist is the result of taking the core concept of the ranger mechanic and refining it within an elite spec. There isn't a 1:1 to comparison to ranger pets.

Can a lot of the pets be stronger than what they currently are? OF COURSE, several of them are pure trash. Does it fix the underlyding issue this class has, an issue that keeps spilling over every single one of its elite specs? No. It doesn't.

But you know, whatever. I'm really tired of arguing with what may as well brick walls on the matter of this class and its mechanic.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Gotejjeken.1267]

To the OP, well yes, because as a whole Untamed is rather pointless.

We know the problems, but to reiterate a fundamental one, the Untamed has no way of boosting movement speed passively.  That's a pretty big oversight for something so obvious--I mean, can make it so you are boosted in speed when unleashed or via trait like Natural Stride, but to have nothing? Also, before the 'mah superspeed' people get here, I'm talking passive, so no disables, strikes, skill use, etc. needed.

Since the movement speed is so fundamental, everything else is only worse from there.  Dropping damage for zero reason (seriously, someone explain how untamed is the 'tank' spec other than marketing), relying on bad pet AI like its 2012, having some hokey keyboard piano mechanic for little to no benefit, etc. etc.

I also hate the Mechanist argument because Mechanist is engineer with pet-like thing tacked on, it's nowhere near comparable to rangers and actual pets.  It 'works better' because it was developed to work better; that's it.  

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Levetty.1279]

A problem I have with having such a big damage buff being tied to being unleashed is that it makes camping in unleashed feel mandatory.

[voltaicbore.8012]

On 4/6/2022 at 4:03 AM, Lazze.9870 said:

I almosy find it funny that anyone expected this "pet focused spec" to be anywhere near decent as a dps option. Power core ranger wasn't either, with MM, Skrim and BM. The fundamental problems are the same.

Yep. Any non-ranger will likely ask "what are those fundamental problems?" Someone else said it best:

On 4/15/2022 at 3:36 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

relying on bad pet AI like its 2012

Soulbeast was a step in the right direction. Solving the pet AI issue doesn't seem to be in the cards, so soulbeast's version of addressing the pet problem (i.e. getting rid of them) is superior to untamed's version.

[Lazze.9870]

16 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

On 4/15/2022 at 10:36 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

2012

Soulbeast was a step in the right direction. Solving the pet AI issue doesn't seem to be in the cards, so soulbeast's version of addressing the pet problem (i.e. getting rid of them) is superior to untamed's version.

The same way a no pet version of Untamed easily would have been better for large scale wvw which is one of the things it is clearly designed for given some of its tools.

... and the same way a no AI version of druid would be a better support spec simply for having anything else on its UI other than the controls for a nerfed pet.

But I don't except anything from a company that keeps adding ridiculous traits like 15 % damage for having fury or 25 % damage for just existing on the elite specs to compensate for how trash the power damage of the core class is.

Nor do I expect anything from people that want to "play with the pet". It doesn't get any better than what it currently is, so you better stop asking for more reliance on that kitten AI.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Lazze.9870