Change Request: Dispelling Force

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

With the change to WoD I got to thinking. A 33% reduction in incoming boon duration is meh at best. Way over nerfed, but this also opened a door for boon duration reduction traits/abilities.

Here is my take on that.

Dispelling Force: In addition to it's previous effects Dispelling Force now causes each stack of vulnerability to reduce the incoming boon duration on the target by 1%.

General change (so global to all classes)

Weakness: Outgoing boons have 50% reduced duration.

We have condition duration increases and reduction. We have CC duration increases and reductions. But we so far only have boon duration increases and now only a single ability to reduce their duration. Naturally duration reductions would stack multiplicatively.

Thoughts? 

Edits based on the discussions below:

Disenchantment should become an effect that stacks in intensity, 1% per stack. WoD inflicts 33 stacks for 1s per pulse. Dispelling Force would apply one stack of Disenchantment for 5s per stack of vulnerability inflicted by the Spellbreaker. I erred on the side of caution above and stated that they should stack multiplicatively, but perhaps this is something that should be additive if it is applied in this manner. This would mean with Weakness, 25 stacks of dispelling force from 25 stacks of vulnerability, and WoD pulsing 33 stacks, that Spellbreakers would cause periodic bursts of complete incoming boon denial, with stretches of moderate to severe incoming boon duration reduction. Other classes using weakness would have the ability to affect their target's boon duration moderately leaving Spellbreaker the specialist in it.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Lan Deathrider.5910
Adding details based on the discussion.

[The Boz.2038]

Holie crepe! The global weakness change will *rock* and shake up all content ever!
Yeah, OK, this got my vote.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

Incredible. 👏

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

25 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Holie crepe! The global weakness change will *rock* and shake up all content ever!
Yeah, OK, this got my vote.

I know. This is something that I do not feel should be given to only one class with weakness being an obvious choice for it, but I feel like Spellbreaker should be the one class to leverage it more fully by altering Vulnerability to gain even more boon duration reduction. All in all, including WoD it would be a 75% boon duration reduction if they stack multiplicatively.

That said duration increases/reductions are additive otherwise, so perhaps they should be additive? That would allow Spellbreaker to reach 100% boon duration reduction with 25 Vuln applied, weakness, and WoD.

To differentiate the effect of Vuln from a Spellbreaker perhaps the disenchantment effect should become a effect that stacks in intensity, 1% per stack, up to 50% with vuln applied by the Spellbreaker applying 1 stack for 5s from Dispelling Force and 33 stacks for 1s from WoD.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

19 minutes ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Incredible. 👏

Another in the I dgaf anymore line of thinking, but this does seem to be a hole within gameplay that Spellbreaker should be the king of with other classes getting access to it via weakness.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Another in the I dgaf anymore line of thinking, but this does seem to be a hole within gameplay that Spellbreaker should be the king of with other classes getting access to it via weakness.

Agreed.

The name "Spellbreaker" implies that anything with magic should fear it. Classes that rely heavily on boons should be running away from spellbreakers. It's the literal intention behind the class.

You might've helped fix the sustain craziness.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

Agreed.

The name "Spellbreaker" implies that anything with magic should fear it. Classes that rely heavily on boons should be running away from spellbreakers. It's the literal intention behind the class.

You might've helped fix the sustain craziness.

TBH, I would not be against the boon stripping becoming boon corruption. Flavor it as boon 'inversion'

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

TBH, I would not be against the boon stripping becoming boon corruption. Flavor it as boon 'inversion'

It would open up a lot of avenues for many builds as well as positive directions that the game could go in. And it goes along with the current line of thinking and designing by anet so far. These ideas are like missing puzzle pieces.

These ideas need to reach someone in charge.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

It would open up a lot of avenues for many builds as well as positive directions that the game could go in. And it goes along with the current line of thinking and designing by anet so far. These ideas are like missing puzzle pieces.

These ideas need to reach someone in charge.

I would @ them, but I apparently did it too much and I got a nastigram message from a forum mod to stop doing it. Feel free to @ the devs as much as you want.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

17 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I would @ them, but I apparently did it too much and I got a nastigram message from a forum mod to stop doing it. Feel free to @ the devs as much as you want.

Ahem,

@Cal Cohen.3527 @Josh Davis.7865

OP seems to have struck gold

[Dadnir.5038]

The dispelling force thing won't work as only the warrior's vulnerability would be affected and vulnerability is easily overwritten. I'm not even sure the game can support the load of such a change, you'd probably crash both wvw and open world pve everytime you got 2-3 spellbreaker around. It would quickly be nicknamed "spellcrasher".

The change to weakness should be "ok". Thought, it's probably worth it in competitive mode, I'm not sure it's really interesting elsewhere.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The dispelling force thing won't work as only the warrior's vulnerability would be affected and vulnerability is easily overwritten. I'm not even sure the game can support the load of such a change, you'd probably crash both wvw and open world pve everytime you got 2-3 spellbreaker around. It would quickly be nicknamed "spellcrasher".

The change to weakness should be "ok". Thought, it's probably worth it in competitive mode, I'm not sure it's really interesting elsewhere.

See the edit at the bottom of the post about applying vuln also applying 1 stack of disenchantment, with disenchantment beign reworked to stack in intensity.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

See the edit at the bottom of the post about applying vuln also applying 1 stack of disenchantment, with disenchantment beign reworked to stack in intensity.

So you're talking about introducing a new condition in the game? On top of changing weakness to do the same thing? I'm not seeing the devs do that...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

So you're talking about introducing a new condition in the game? On top of changing weakness to do the same thing? I'm not seeing the devs do that...

Not a new condition, as that can be cleansed. I'm talking about making Disenchantment stack in intensity and giving source of it other than WoD. The weakness change is to allow other classes a means of doing the same thing, but hey if it's one or the other I'd stay with just making Disenchantment stackable in intensity and giving multiple sources of it to Spellbreaker.

[Fueki.4753]

I'm always in favour of things that make Warrior less terrible.

But I can't see Arenanet adding boon duration reduction to Weakness. They love their boon vomit far too much.

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I'm always in favour of things that make Warrior less terrible.

But I can't see Arenanet adding boon duration reduction to Weakness. They love their boon vomit far too much.

 

The boons would still be vomited, but at reduced duration.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The boons would still be vomited, but at reduced duration.

But it's shorter duration vomit. I doubt Arenanet would want that.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

But it's shorter duration vomit. I doubt Arenanet would want that.

They can revert some of the duration reductions they did during the Feb2020 patch if they want to.

[Hotride.2187]

Weakness already does too much IMO and might getting corrupted into it would feel even worse. As long as condis get vomitted out at current rate, I wouldnt buff any condi.

Also imagine 4 sec weakness as 1 line of a 6 lines of text ability being much better than winds...

For dispelling force (or baseline spb honestly) I would see this effect on removing a stack of stab. E.g. 10% reduced incoming AND outgoing boon duration, for 10 sec per stack removed. So your opponent doesnt get to pop stab and facetank you, at least not when they rely on boon spam to stay alive.

Or honestly just change dispelling force to remove boons also when you remove stab. So that each CC results in boonrip even if the target has stab. If boons were more situational and required some sort of a plan to pop, this would be an overkill. But boons just get vomitted out, same as condi. So you vomit boons, I vomit boonrips. And no, rotating 2 stab sources doesnt and shouldnt make you immune to spb.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[The Boz.2038]

Since we're fiddling with Weakness, it should just make the target do 50% less strike damage. None of that uncrit stuff.

[Mungrul.9358]

I like how it's also a sneaky Warrior buff, as we're not as dependent on boons as the other professions 👍

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Since we're fiddling with Weakness, it should just make the target do 50% less strike damage. None of that uncrit stuff.

It's the only real source of 'glancing blows' in the game. I feel like this was something they wanted to explore more of after release, but didn't. Personally I think it is grossly imbalanced that it also does not reduce condition damage dealt.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

I like how it's also a sneaky Warrior buff, as we're not as dependent on boons as the other professions 👍

Yes and no. We still really rely on a few key boons, and they are fairly important, but we lack in access in general a couple of others. Do not mistake that lack of access as not being as dependent.

[The Boz.2038]

5 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It's the only real source of 'glancing blows' in the game. I feel like this was something they wanted to explore more of after release, but didn't. Personally I think it is grossly imbalanced that it also does not reduce condition damage dealt.

It's not imbalanced at all at the moment, as a good amount of condition damage is procced by crit hits, the unique downside of condition damage doesn't require a prevent-spikes condition, and you can always just cleanse it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

It's not imbalanced at all at the moment, as a good amount of condition damage is procced by crit hits, the unique downside of condition damage doesn't require a prevent-spikes condition, and you can always just cleanse it.

Perhaps, but that is a separate discussion for a different thread.