PvE Open World Legendary Armor Proposal (draft)

[Erise.5614]

21 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

What will be the first thing after they implement an Open World legendary armor? Players will flood the forums and complain that it’s too difficult, take too much time and is too expensive. 

That's not happened with other legendary items and at least on gw2 efficiency we see significantly higher completion rates for other legendary items. Back items, despite being 4 times as expensive as a single piece of armor, have a 20% higher completion rate than getting a single piece of legendary armor.

Legendary trinkets have a ~10% higher completion rate than 4 armor pieces (same price). Despite being around for between a few months to several years shorter. Complaints don't matter as much if the participation rate is high. Skyscale is a good example. Still to this day it's complained about. But others remember it fondly and a truly massive amount of players completed it. So long as it's only about time invested with a steady progression path. Without having to participate in content entirely outside the comfort zone for dozens upon dozens of hours, it's still valid. 

Considering participation rate in WvW and sPvP we can say with quite some certainty that it's liked but not by anything resembling a majority. Neither are raids. Which we can also say with a lot of certainty.

While we can see quite good indicators for demand being there from players who primarily enjoy OW gameplay.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Erise.5614

[yoni.7015]

7 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

That's not happened with other legendary items and at least on gw2 efficiency we see significantly higher completion rates for other legendary items. Back items, despite being 4 times as expensive as a single piece of armor, have a 20% higher completion rate than getting a single piece of legendary armor.

Legendary trinkets have a ~10% higher completion rate than 4 armor pieces (same price). Despite being around for between a few months to several years shorter. Complaints don't matter as much if the participation rate is high. Skyscale is a good example. Still to this day it's complained about. But others remember it fondly and a truly massive amount of players completed it.

Considering participation rate in WvW and sPvP we can say with quite some certainty that it's liked but not by anything resembling a majority. Neither are raids. Which we can also say with a lot of certainty.

While we can see quite good indicators for demand being there from players who primarily enjoy OW gameplay.

Where do you see this demand?

Why are the numbers for trinkets and backpacks higher? Maybe because many don’t think legendary armor is necessary. But we already discussed these numbers. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Erise.5614]

5 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Where do you see this demand?

Why are the numbers for trinkets and backpacks higher? Maybe because many don’t think legendary armor is necessary. 

I mean. Literally no legendary item is necessary. It's always just a long term reward for active play over really long periods of time. 

But, fair point! Maybe! But what if that's not the reason? 

Regardless of how you look at it, other items are more expensive with less utility than armor. So unless there's anything hinting at specific reasons why players shun just this one type of rewards it's not a stretch to blame the acqusition method. Especially considering it's been a topic on here for a long time. Whereas "armors aren't necessary" is not a discussion topic I'm familiar with!^^

Edited May 2, 2022 by Erise.5614

[yoni.7015]

Just now, Erise.5614 said:

I mean. Literally no legendary item is necessary. It's always just a long term reward for active play over really long periods of time. 

And, maybe! But what if that's not the reason? 

Regardless of how you look at it, these other items have less utility than armor. So unless there's anything hinting at specific reasons why players shun just this one type of rewards it's not a stretch to blame the acqusition method. Especially considering it's been a topic on here for a long time. Whereas "armors aren't necessary" is not a discussion topic I'm familiar with!^^

It has been a topic because always the same people start a new discussion about it 🙂

[Erise.5614]

8 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

It has been a topic because always the same people start a new discussion about it 🙂

With a quick search I can find several dozen of different people with threads spanning months. Probably years if I were to keep looking.

Just as a few examples, all by different people:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/114271-pve-open-world-legendary-armor-proposal-draft/?do=findComment&comment=1648541

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/113298-alternative-path-for-pve-legendary-armor/?do=findComment&comment=1633871

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/98150-new-path-to-legendary-armor/?do=findComment&comment=1404677

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105697-public-instance-raids-and-legendary-armor/?tab=comments#comment-1529040

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105859-pve-legendary-armor/?do=findComment&comment=1532061

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/99685-legendary-armor-by-pve-exploration-merged/?do=findComment&comment=1431346

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/99043-legendary-armor-is-locked-for-some-people/?do=findComment&comment=1419637

 

Just to clarify. I don't think all of those are good ideas. Just want to point out a few semi recent examples. In fact, I have difficulties finding duplicates made by the same people. I can hardly see what you claim to be the default!?

Edited May 2, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Infusion.7149]

28 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

With a quick search I can find several dozen of different people with threads spanning months. Probably years if I were to keep looking.

Just as a few examples, all by different people:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/114271-pve-open-world-legendary-armor-proposal-draft/?do=findComment&comment=1648541

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/113298-alternative-path-for-pve-legendary-armor/?do=findComment&comment=1633871

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/98150-new-path-to-legendary-armor/?do=findComment&comment=1404677

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105697-public-instance-raids-and-legendary-armor/?tab=comments#comment-1529040

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/105859-pve-legendary-armor/?do=findComment&comment=1532061

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/99685-legendary-armor-by-pve-exploration-merged/?do=findComment&comment=1431346

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/99043-legendary-armor-is-locked-for-some-people/?do=findComment&comment=1419637

 

Just to clarify. I don't think all of those are good ideas. Just want to point out a few semi recent examples. In fact, I have difficulties finding duplicates made by the same people. I can hardly see what you claim to be the default!?

9 hours ago, Erise.5614 said:

Much more specific! Thank you!

First of all. What you or anyone defines as a game mode is arbitrary. All definitions are gonna have weird edge cases and are gonna be inconsistent. OW/Story and JPs have their own patch category. World Polish. Not their own balance. But do they need that? JPs are different from WvW, PvP. Nor are they PvE. You are strictly speaking not fighting against the environment. You aren't fighting at all. So, are they a different game mode? Is the only reason they are not because because they don't have balance patches? What would JPs need balance patches for? I know this is a bit nitpicky but my point is. Where you or I draw lines is arbitrary.

The legendaries do need OW currencies / mats. But the point is that you can simplify or avoid almost all of it. And the bit that remains can be done in a few hours for all 3 armor sets. Most people are gonna spend a lot more time in OW. Sure. But they make that choice. There is no choice for whether one has to play PvP or hardcore instanced content. And it's not a few hours either, it's somewhere between 50 - 100 hours of mandatory participation per set. 

In regards to WvW trinkets. Trinkets are the easiest and cheapest thing to get in the game. I do agree that they should get alternative acquisition paths to those. But it's less of a barrier and less limiting. JPs in stories are annoying. But otherwise they aren't necessary and almost all can be skipped with a single TP to friend. A few need 2-8 TP to friend. 

Dragon's End was a mistake in a lot of ways. There's a reason it's more of an issue than TT. From the presentation within the story, the plentiful bugs like bites, greens exploit, or disappearing indicators. Over design flaws like hit markers that move away from the hit box by massive distances, the funneling of all players into a singular location making visual noise worse, the entire fight having mediocre performance requiring certain settings to be set lest you play an absolute slide show with no valid chance to react to anything. 

But from a different perspective. I don't understand why legendary armor must be locked behind high difficulty. It's already not. WvW nor PvP is difficult. You can set yourself personal goals and make it challenging. But that's not an inherent part of the games systems. So I don't get why that is a flaw regarding OW content. 

Raids are not at all approachable. The participation rate and behavior in LFG are incredibly clear about that. You wouldn't need as excessive gatekeeping if the content was approachable. Most groups ask for significantly more raid experience than is needed for your first armor set and you either have to spend hours waiting and hoping or go out of your way into specific third party resources to get a proper introduction into the content. To receive training. Which is, funnily enough, extremely populated by quite experienced people who just can't otherwise find public groups. Calling that easy is really not portraying the situation honestly.

Undue resource drain / effort for ANet would be about participation rates. If a lot of people spend a lot of time and gold on getting an OW armor it would be a worthwhile addition. We don't have data on that but I'm sure ANet does. In fact, you could argue the other way around that hardcore content had an excessive amount of work put into them given the amount of participation. Where OW would just need a few lines of dialogue, some collections and some economy design. No new content at all. Raids needed new maps, new mechanics, elaborate enemies that are unique to the encounter. Both arguments are about as good as one another. Which is to say, not good. 

An alternative method for legendary backpiece could be interesting too. But I'm not focusing on that at the moment for two reasons.

1. It's already got a significantly higher adoption rate than armor. It is much better received- 

2. It's much more expensive than individual armor pieces. Because armor as a whole is valued at ~2k gold but splitting the progress into 6 pieces it's a much smoother progression curve and could get a lot more people into the legendary grind. Which would have a lot of positive properties. I'm not even opposed to it requiring instanced content, WvW and PvP if those are modes ANet wants to encourage and focus on. In fact, that could be a thing for all legendary items. The important bit is how much is absolutely mandatory. Can you avoid it. Avoiding it can be annoying. Just like you can funerary incense without ever stepping a foot into OW. It requires a bunch of gold and festival vendors. Some of which you can buy or get without playing the festivals themselves (e.g. new years -> exotic luck. Halloween -> Candy corn cob. Winter day -> Snow Diamond). Which you can use once per week during the festivals to buy a tyrian exchance voucher to buy basically all map currencies. Usually 250 or 500 per voucher. 
This level of avoidance would be fine. Slow, not always available and limited. In short, inconvenient. But possible. Leaving only a small amount of absolutely mandatory participation in the modes. And encouraging continued participation by making it faster and more convenient. But not necessitating it. (e.g. For raid armor, you need to run Auric Basin ~2 times for Auric Dust. Everything else can be substituted with WvW/PvP, with gold or currency conversions)

 

Generally speaking the same groups of people that want these sort of things are not remotely qualified to give an opinion.
For example one of the above posters that is arguing about game modes wanted jade slivers to skirmish tickets. It's that absurd. I've seen people ask for legendaries in gemstore multiple times as well, it doesn't make it a good suggestion whatsoever.

To have an objective opinion you need to have done at least Mistforged armor in both PVP+WVW as well as 750+ LI in PVE.

For PVE it's 6 weeks assuming you are able to full clear all the wings (by being carried or someone playing an alt) only for the first set and 20 weeks for every set thereafter if you only do W1-4. It's 22 weeks of 365 tickets just for basic WVW armor (29 for the mistforged per set) and the time commitment for low ranked people is higher (20+ hours a week if you want in that timeframe).
In PvP it is at least 3 seasons per set which is multiple months unless it's a mini-season such as 2v2 which rewards lower PvP tickets (not ascended shards of glory which are not timegated).

I highly doubt this thread and many others was made with that timescale in mind. Your diatribe above before the post I'm quoting doesn't change the fact that JPs and living story are a subset of PVE. In fact Living Story that people play is instanced content, even if people that are trying to get "openworld legendary armor" implemented want to deny that.

JPs have had balance patches believe it or not to limit out of bound skips. I know since mesmer is my most played class by a small margin and I still have a stack of TP guns on it. Fractals would need complete retooling of the map boundaries similar to openworld after gliders and mounts (see invisible walls everywhere). There's been talk about limiting use of white mantle portal device as well to reduce the meta strategy of white mantle portal skips and such in fractals. The "gizmo" removal  (actually it is bundles such as shovels and rocks) or whatnot was solely for CC bars and had nothing to do with map boundaries.

In addition, game modes are defined in Arenanet's definition by skill splits and template functionality. Nowhere did I say anything about balance patches.

P.S. your assessment is wrong about armor. Trinkets can be used by all 9 classes while armor can be used at most by 3.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Erise.5614]

20 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Generally speaking the same groups of people that want these sort of things are not remotely qualified to give an opinion.
For example one of the above posters that is arguing about game modes wanted jade slivers to skirmish tickets. It's that absurd. I've seen people ask for legendaries in gemstore multiple times as well, it doesn't make it a good suggestion whatsoever.

To have an objective opinion you need to have done at least Mistforged armor in both PVP+WVW as well as 750+ LI in PVE.

For PVE it's 6 weeks assuming you are able to full clear all the wings (by being carried or someone playing an alt) only for the first set and 20 weeks for every set thereafter if you only do W1-4. It's 22 weeks of 365 tickets just for basic WVW armor (29 for the mistforged per set) and the time commitment for low ranked people is higher (20+ hours a week if you want in that timeframe).
PvP is at least 3 seasons per set which is multiple months unless it's a mini-season such as 2v2 which rewards lower PvP tickets.

I highly doubt this thread and many others was made with that timescale in mind.

"Have 54 pieces of legendary armor or your opinion is irrelevant" Wow. That's the most ridiculous gatekeeping I've seen yet^^

(Edit: I might have misread you. You may have only referred to 30 pieces of legendary armor. Which makes it less extreme but still ridiculous gatekeeping for a discussion)

Simple conversions between currencies are usually naive. The currencies are separate for a reason but that's fine. Not everyone needs to be an economy designer. The point of that comment was to showcase the demand. As Yoni was claiming no one would be interested or grind towards OW armor. It was never my intention to support all suggestions. 

And, for example. I have been advocating for one with equivalent if not slightly increased time spent. A balance needs to be struck between real world time gates and ingame time spent. Both need to be sufficiently high. 

However, I do want to reassure you. If your only concern is cost and time spent. I'm quite confident ANet would never even consider giving it away for a significantly reduced amount of participation or cost.

Arguing the specifics is mostly pointless besides teaching other users economics / statistics / currency conversions they don't know about yet. ANet would never blindly implement anything recommended here anyway.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Infusion.7149]

16 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

"Have 54 pieces of legendary armor or your opinion is irrelevant" Wow. That's the most ridiculous gatekeeping I've seen yet^^

Simple conversions between currencies are usually naive. The currencies are separate for a reason but that's fine. Not everyone needs to be an economy designer. The point of that comment was to showcase the demand. As Yoni was claiming no one would be interested or grind towards it. It was never my intention to support all suggestions. 

And, for example. I have been advocating for one with equivalent if not slightly increased time spent. A balance needs to be struck between real world time gates and ingame time spent. Both need to be sufficiently high. 

However, I do want to reassure you. If your only concern is cost and time spent. I'm quite confident ANet would never even consider giving it away for a significantly reduced amount of participation or cost.

Arguing the specifics is mostly pointless besides teaching other users economics / statistics / currency conversions they don't know about yet. ANet would never blindly implement anything recommended here anyway.

The poster was equating legendary currency to junk (jade slivers). That's what this sort of suggestion feels like.

• "acquired from successful completion of meta bosses" = literal afk unless it's metas with a fail condition
• "acquired from completion of Events" = also literal afk , see bauble farm
• "acquired from completion of Hearts" = how is this legendary , make a weapon if you want to do hearts all day
• Reading Map Chat = lol , can't be serious
• "acquired from Jump Puzzle final chests" = more like JP /TP armor since "can be traded"

Not everyone has to be an economy designer but if you're going to put up a suggestion that is absurd I have a right to point out the fundamental flaws with it.

P.S. Mistforged is not necessarily legendary, it just shows you put enough effort into the mode to know how long it takes to get the respective currencies.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Luci.7018]

10 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The poster was equating legendary currency to junk (jade slivers). That's what this sort of suggestion feels like.

• "acquired from successful completion of meta bosses" = literal afk unless it's metas with a fail condition
• "acquired from completion of Events" = also literal afk , see bauble farm
• "acquired from completion of Hearts" = how is this legendary , make a weapon if you want to do hearts all day
• Reading Map Chat = lol , can't be serious
• "acquired from Jump Puzzle final chests" = more like JP /TP armor since "can be traded"

Not everyone has to be an economy designer but if you're going to put up a suggestion that is absurd I have a right to point out the fundamental flaws with it.

Well this person , like others that say there are 3 ways , you don't need forth , let's lump them in a barrel and let's allow the company to choose the requirements .

They already created a fairly cost vs effort ,  for the rest of the 3 sets .

Edited May 2, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Erise.5614]

9 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The poster was equating legendary currency to junk (jade slivers). That's what this sort of suggestion feels like.

• "acquired from successful completion of meta bosses" = literal afk unless it's metas with a fail condition
• "acquired from completion of Events" = also literal afk , see bauble farm
• "acquired from completion of Hearts" = how is this legendary , make a weapon if you want to do hearts all day
• Reading Map Chat = lol , can't be serious
• "acquired from Jump Puzzle final chests" = more like JP armor.

Not everyone has to be an economy designer but if you're going to put up a suggestion that is absurd I have a right to point out the fundamental flaws with it.

I can not find the jade silver reference. So without context I can not draw any meaningful conclusions. They may have meant to use it as account bound currency that builds up slowly. Not meaning it as converting 1:1 but like 1000:1 or something. Which could be a valid way to implement one step of the armor. It's not intended that way so I would personally still call it a poor patchwork. But it wouldn't be absurd either.

All of the other elements mentioned could be valid components by acting as time gates for the legendary armor.

E.g. JPs / Hearts / Meta bonus chests limit progress to once daily. Enforcing a minimum duration necessary to gain the armor. Serving a very similar purpose as Skirmish Claim tickets.

They don't contribute to the price so that's something still lacking. But they do serve the time gating purpose and could therefore serve as valid components. 

It almost sounds like you find the mere idea of a non raid armor ridiculous rather than any valid economy or retention related concerns. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Tails.9372]

5 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

I can not find the jade silver reference.

There was someone who started a thread about wanting to convert jade slivers into WvW tickets but as of right now this person hasn't posted in this thread yet so it's a total straw man.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Infusion.7149]

5 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

There was someone who started a thread about wanting to convert jade slivers into WvW tickets but as of right now this person hasn't posted in this thread yet so it's a total straw man.

Strawman indeed. Get your facts straight.

---

See above link. The motivation for this thread is plain as day. Anyway Arenanet has added a different source of LI, it's called EOD strikes.

Also JPs are not gated in a manner remotely comparable due to out of bound skips and portals.

10 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

I can not find the jade silver reference. So without context I can not draw any meaningful conclusions. They may have meant to use it as account bound currency that builds up slowly. Not meaning it as converting 1:1 but like 1000:1 or something. Which could be a valid way to implement one step of the armor. It's not intended that way so I would personally still call it a poor patchwork. But it wouldn't be absurd either.

All of the other elements mentioned could be valid components by acting as time gates for the legendary armor.

E.g. JPs / Hearts / Meta bonus chests limit progress to once daily. Enforcing a minimum duration necessary to gain the armor. Serving a very similar purpose as Skirmish Claim tickets.

They don't contribute to the price so that's something still lacking. But they do serve the time gating purpose and could therefore serve as valid components. 

It almost sounds like you find the mere idea of a non raid armor ridiculous rather than any valid economy or retention related concerns. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Tails.9372]

20 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

21 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

There was someone who started a thread about wanting to convert jade slivers into WvW tickets but as of right now this person hasn't posted in this thread yet so it's a total straw man.

Strawman indeed.

I suppose you can interpret it that way so I guess I stand corrected but he wasn't asking for anything specific so I don't really take this as anything other than him arguing for "keeping the amount of required content types to a minimum".

Edited May 2, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Erise.5614]

4 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Strawman indeed. Get your facts straight.

---

See above link. The motivation for this thread is plain as day. Anyway Arenanet has added a different source of LI, it's called EOD strikes.

It seems the OP of that thread was looking for a way to increase rewards for WvW players while also creating a way for PvE players. I think the execution is flawed but the idea is not half bad. WvW players do deserve some better rewards. Not sure jade silver is a good currency to use here. But portraying that as absurdly entitled and lazy isn't quite honest either.

 

The problem is the armor being locked behind hardcore group content.

EoD strikes don't provide access to raid armor at all and, depending how you count, provide 0 or 1 per week for non hardcore instanced content. Might as well farm W3 escorts for better rewards in less time. 

Yes, ANet moves forward and quite clearly communicates they consider strikes the new and current instanced content format they will focus on for hardcore content. But that's not a solution to what people are suggesting here. 

[Infusion.7149]

1 minute ago, Erise.5614 said:

It seems the OP of that thread was looking for a way to increase rewards for WvW players while also creating a way for PvE players. I think the execution is flawed but the idea is not half bad. WvW players do deserve some better rewards. Not sure jade silver is a good currency to use here. But portraying that as absurdly entitled and lazy isn't quite honest either.

 

The problem is the armor being locked behind hardcore group content.

EoD strikes don't provide access to raid armor at all and, depending how you count, provide 0 or 1 per week for non hardcore instanced content. Might as well farm W3 escorts for better rewards in less time. 

Yes, ANet moves forward and quite clearly communicates they consider strikes the new and current instanced content format they will focus on for hardcore content. But that's not a solution to what people are suggesting here. 

The idea is not bad? Literal junk to skirmish tickets. JUNK.

[Erise.5614]

7 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The idea is not bad? Literal junk to skirmish tickets. JUNK.

The basic premise of using something to make WvW more attractive to experienced players who did not play it before, speeding up the progress to bring the duration more in line with how quickly you can get armor in raids and further incentivizing active gameplay, not camp reflagging, is not half bad. 

Again, Jade Silver is associated with too many different things. It was not designed for this purpose. So it's not actually a good choice to use. Someone was trying to improve several things at once and using the first best currency or material they could think of that might serve that purpose. Which obviously has problems.

But the goals they were trying to accomplish with that suggestion aren't absurd at all.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Erise.5614

[sasya neko.1985]

On 4/28/2022 at 12:15 AM, Labjax.2465 said:

Any thoughts on what that might look like? I take it you mean a series of collections like some of the other legendary stuff? Or do you mean like an actual storyline to it?

no collections, that's the lame achievement crap Anet loves.

i am talking about an actual story line, one that puts you on an adventure with the legendary armor as a end reward.

obviously this is allot of work and i really don't underestimate what is involved but i still think it's worth it.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Anyway Arenanet has added a different source of LI, it's called EOD strikes.

TBH, the way it was added, it's more like an additional way to obtain more LIs than a different source. It's a method for raiders to increase their weekly total of LI+LDs from 25 to 30 (well, 27 now, but 30 when all 4 EoD strike CMs will get released). It's not really a method to help get LIs for people that do not want to raid (especially since LIs are useless for anyone that is not raiding anyway - you do need to unlock those 2 tiers of armor collection first to have any use out of it, after all).

Notice, btw, that when all 4 CMs will get released, the time lockout to get first full raid armor set will get reduced to 5 weeks (and 10 weeks per subsequent set)

Edited May 2, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Gibson.4036]

On 5/2/2022 at 11:21 AM, yoni.7015 said:

What will be the first thing after they implement an Open World legendary armor? Players will flood the forums and complain that it’s too difficult, takes too long and is too expensive. 
People are still complaining about the griffon, the skyscale and the turtle. 

And plenty of players have their griffon and skyscale and... well, some have the turtle. And there are enough players who are fine with the way they got the skyscale that they will come and argue against the complainers.

What's your point? We can't have anything someone might complain about? That would eliminate the entire game.

Except Tybalt.

We'd still have Tybalt.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Sobx.1758]

On 5/2/2022 at 5:38 PM, Erise.5614 said:

Back items, despite being 4 times as expensive as a single piece of armor, have a 20% higher completion rate than getting a single piece of legendary armor.

That's a convenient way to look at the statistic, while entirely avoiding how people going for legendary armor usually already have multiple ascended sets for their builds anyways. At leasat partially due to that, a lot of players craft the whole set at once. Not all, obviously, but still a lot.

On 5/2/2022 at 6:57 PM, Erise.5614 said:

It seems the OP of that thread was looking for a way to increase rewards for WvW players while also creating a way for PvE players.

No, he wasn't. If he wanted to "increase rewards for wvw players", he'd target wvw reward acquisition methods. Meanwhile what he clearly did was an attempt to pull the wvw rewards out of the wvw.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Friday.7864]

Would be nice if there was tons of involvement in lower level maps.
Like, months of involvement - even longer than WvW.
Active low level maps would leave a good impression on new players. 

[vares.8457]

1 hour ago, Friday.7864 said:

Would be nice if there was tons of involvement in lower level maps.
Like, months of involvement - even longer than WvW.
Active low level maps would leave a good impression on new players. 

Yeah, they should give us legendary armor for killing Champs in Queensdale and Metrica Province - truly legendary. 
 

edit: I forgot, most Champs there are now Veterans - even more legendary! 

Edited May 3, 2022 by vares.8457

[Erise.5614]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's a convenient way to look at the statistic, while entirely avoiding how people going for legendary armor usually already have multiple ascended sets for their builds anyways. At leasat partially due to that, a lot of players craft the whole set at once. Not all, obviously, but still a lot.

The data does support that when players start crafting legendary armor they try to have at least one set. But it does not support that players wait until they have everything necessary for 6 pieces before they craft the first one. Only about 66% of players who have any amount of legendary armors have 6 pieces. 33% are between 1 - 5. 

If I calculate only with people who have at least one full set then back items have around 170% the completion rate. Despite full armor being only 150% the price. And even despite both being closely tied to instanced content or PvP related modes. 

No matter how you look at it. How you turn it. The data on gw2efficiency seems to heavily suggest armor is the least popular legendary content for no obvious reason besides the content that has to be played to acquire it. Cost, time necessary to acquire it or how long since it's been released do not appear to closely correlate with completion rates.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Erise.5614

[kharmin.7683]

1 minute ago, Erise.5614 said:

No matter how you look at it. How you turn it. The data on gw2efficiency seems to heavily suggest armor is the least popular legendary content for no obvious reason besides the content that has to be played to acquire it. Cost, time necessary to acquire it or how long since it's been released do not appear to closely correlate with completion rates.

This is why I believe that many of those who want legendary armor want it for the convenience factor rather than the cosmetic factor.  What does legendary give that ascended doesn't?  Convenience.  /shrug

[Sobx.1758]

56 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

The data does support that when players start crafting legendary armor they try to have at least one set. But it does not support that players wait until they have everything necessary for 6 pieces before they craft the first one. Only about 66% of players who have any amount of legendary armors have 6 pieces. 33% are between 1 - 5. 

If I calculate only with people who have at least one full set then back items have around 170% the completion rate. Despite full armor being only 150% the price. And even despite both being closely tied to instanced content or PvP related modes. 

No matter how you look at it. How you turn it. The data on gw2efficiency seems to heavily suggest armor is the least popular legendary content for no obvious reason besides the content that has to be played to acquire it. Cost, time necessary to acquire it or how long since it's been released do not appear to closely correlate with completion rates.

What "data" exactly? Which gw2effi numbers specifically are you taking into account here to draw the conclusions you just did while excluding what you've excluded?

Mind, that I'm not asking you how to access the number, I know how to access them. I'm asking how exactly (and with which numbers exactly) you're reaching the conclusions quoted above (also notably wondering about the exclusing of cost/time necessary to acquire, despite these recent threads clearly pointing out at the amount of time it takes to acquire that gear being problematic for some of the players complaining about it).

Edited May 3, 2022 by Sobx.1758