[Suggestions ] Just listen to this guy

[Ashen.2907]

On 5/8/2022 at 1:11 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Oh, they were much more popular. So popular Anet had to nerf rewards into the ground in order to force people out of that content (yes, they flat out admitted then that the reward nerf was intended to make people stop playing dungeons). The reasons the abandoned that content is due to its spagetthi, and Anet decided it's much easier to start anew than to try to clean the dungeon code to make it easier to work with.

This.

Plus their decision to cater to those complaining about a lack of vertical progression by creating fractals. ANet, at the time, wasnt interested in working on two forms of instanced endgame content at the same time.

[voltaicbore.8012]

23 hours ago, Shikaru.7618 said:

Other games minimize this problem a lot because they don't let the player mess up their setup this badly without immediate feedback from the game. Some games are designed in such a way where you cannot even mess up certain build setups because they don't even give you the option to pick the wrong stats. Wish gw2 did this so the baseline new player has something I can feasibly work with.

You're correct that other games don't let players mess up their builds as badly as GW2 does, but I disagree that GW2 should in any way adopt a similar system for any players, new or otherwise.

I've said on multiple occasions that our LFG problems simply cannot be solved because of the raw build freedom GW2 offers us. All the other games that can have functioning LFGs either (1) have strictly defined builds that the game doesn't allow players to deviate from, or (2) combat is so homogenous that it just doesn't matter what you are.

Both of those options would be enormously destructive of what makes GW2 special. I firmly disagree that the game should give new players some sort of locked-in, idiot-proof setup.

Ultimately, it comes down to a hard truth that we're not used to hearing in gaming: certain players are not worth attempting to retain. If your enjoyment of GW2 is predicated on having it imitate other games' rigid build enforcement, over the long term I don't know if GW2 is the game for you anyways.

Also, I'm not saying that wanting a rigid class/build identity is a fringe or unpopular position. If anything, that seems to be the norm, based on how much more enormously popular such games are compared to GW2. GW2's status as the sort of 'forgotten' title among the big games out today suggests people who enjoy and thrive in a very fluid build system are in the minority.

[Astralporing.1957]

10 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

This.

Plus their decision to cater to those complaining about a lack of vertical progression by creating fractals. ANet, at the time, wasnt interested in working on two forms of instanced endgame content at the same time.

Three, you mean. Dungeons were not abandoned due to Fractals - they have been perfectly fine alongside those, and got axed only after Raids appeared on the radar.

[Ashen.2907]

4 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Three, you mean. Dungeons were not abandoned due to Fractals - they have been perfectly fine alongside those, and got axed only after Raids appeared on the radar.

Im not sure about that. Dungeons seemed like they were no longer being developed, no new ones introduced, no significant updates, etc well before Raids were announced. Essentially they seemed dead, in terms of development, once fractals arrived.

Of course raids could have been in development behind the scenes all along, and it has been quite a while so my memory of the matter could be faulty.

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-the-future-of-guild-wars-2/

"Josh “Grouch” Davis is taking on the role of Game Director. He’s responsible for the “what” and “why” of Guild Wars 2 development. He started as a Guild Wars community content creator and joined the dev team in 2013<as global brand manager>, allowing us to continue a long tradition of recruiting team members from our passionate player community."

So my suspicion was right a marketing person is calling the shots.

Edit: I don't know this josh but that does read like a teapot kinda guy got in the driver seat @ Anet.

He is a spvp guy

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Joshua_Davis

[Firebeard.1746]

On 5/3/2022 at 2:06 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

The Devs already tend to listen to him. They are implementing things that he is saying already... the problem is... he is not 100% right with some things but the devs listen to it nevertheless. The confused might be from people that think that he is not a "balance-god".

Alot of people have pointed out that it is a problem that they are listening to him, because he, same as every other player, is biased to a certain degree.

Exactly. And his followers are self-selected, so they'll. just agree with him The DE meta and them forcing raid roles into every profession is them listening to him. DE meta is something raiders have been asking for for years, and quite frankly, it wasn't well received, and ruined the expansion in my opinion. Contrast that with Dragonfall, which to me, felt like an open-world raid without all the garbage that I had to do in WoW just to succeed and get people to accept me. Once you start testing performance and forcing role organization in OW you kill the appeal, which is a raid-like experience, without all the garbage involved in raiding in other MMOs. There's already massive reward differences in OW based on build if you're paying attention to the EU fast farming group (their times are all based on optimized OW builds). They should just focus on making effective play more rewarding by accelerating the event based on effective play, while making the even feel like a good experience. I feel like Dragonfall was what hooked me on the game, DE has killed it for me. I'd rather do Mythic+ and traditional raiding in WoW over a raid experience I can only do every 2 hours with no control over who I'm playing with. I still poke at GW2, but this is the direction they're going and it's not fun in the context of how much freedom they give you in builds in this game. 

[Firebeard.1746]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Three, you mean. Dungeons were not abandoned due to Fractals - they have been perfectly fine alongside those, and got axed only after Raids appeared on the radar.

These forums are starting to suffer from survival bias I think. I appreciate your feedback, but am lurking less frequently. 

[Fuchslein.8639]

32 minutes ago, Firebeard.1746 said:

Exactly. And his followers are self-selected, so they'll. just agree with him The DE meta and them forcing raid roles into every profession is them listening to him. DE meta is something raiders have been asking for for years, and quite frankly, it wasn't well received, and ruined the expansion in my opinion. Contrast that with Dragonfall, which to me, felt like an open-world raid without all the garbage that I had to do in WoW just to succeed and get people to accept me. Once you start testing performance and forcing role organization in OW you kill the appeal, which is a raid-like experience, without all the garbage involved in raiding in other MMOs. There's already massive reward differences in OW based on build if you're paying attention to the EU fast farming group (their times are all based on optimized OW builds). They should just focus on making effective play more rewarding by accelerating the event based on effective play, while making the even feel like a good experience. I feel like Dragonfall was what hooked me on the game, DE has killed it for me. I'd rather do Mythic+ and traditional raiding in WoW over a raid experience I can only do every 2 hours with no control over who I'm playing with. I still poke at GW2, but this is the direction they're going and it's not fun in the context of how much freedom they give you in builds in this game. 

Do you mean the raiders who follow Teacup or of what raiders are you talking?

Me, Friends and other raider i know never asked for something like this. Most raider i know, inkluiding me also hate the DE-Meta.

You say the forum suffers from survival-bias. Do you count yourself in there? As far as I can see, all your comments are about how bad raiders and hardcore players are, and you make up things that aren't true at all. Like certain other people here ... so, speaking of Bias.

[Erise.5614]

16 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Do you mean the raiders who follow Teacup or of what raiders are you talking?

Me, Friends and other raider i know never asked for something like this. Most raider i know, inkluiding me also hate the DE-Meta.

You say the forum suffers from survival-bias. Do you count yourself in there? As far as I can see, all your comments are about how bad raiders and hardcore players are, and you make up things that aren't true at all. Like certain other people here ... so, speaking of Bias.

Comments like that are usually not talking about literally everyone with any relation to said label but certain, overly prominent behaviors displayed by that part of the community.

For example, the comment above yours. 

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, Linken.6345 said:

He is a spvp guy

In 2015🙂. I read that but that wasn't all enlightening.

 

Maybe he is still good, but i honestly don´t how that qualifies him to be the decision maker in game design.
Same goes for teapot. That is a guy who has raids on farm talking about sustain being to strong. It is comical. Especially because the sustain of the professions never was was made equal in the first place. But they got axed all the same. He thinks that is a good idea because he is a youtuber not a game designer and on the surface it makes sense. Especially his explanation for the thief trait  sustain.

If you:

1. Play Raids
2. Be a DPS
3. do 20k DPs
4. Be the kite(what is that 1 or 2 bosses where that applies?)
5. Then that trait is was kind of strong

Teapot basically finished an mmo. Everything that comes out of his mouth should be taken with more then a grain of salt. He has enough cloud already. I´m not saying he is wrong in everything he says, but more then enough people already listen to him.

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Albi.7250

[Syvaris Laskaris.5247]

3 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Comments like that are usually not talking about literally everyone with any relation to said label but certain, overly prominent behaviors displayed by that part of the community.

For example, the comment above yours. 

10 years of participation trophy's have ravaged this community, I've given up all pretenses of being polite after reading this thread at this point.

[Fuchslein.8639]

8 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Comments like that are usually not talking about literally everyone with any relation to said label but certain, overly prominent behaviors displayed by that part of the community.

For example, the comment above yours. 

But you know, this goes both sides. Casuals talking that content should just die because THEY don't like it and Raiders who write spam-comments or say git good.

But people like him(and i mean both sides) talk, as if everyone is like this. But in reality such a small part of the actually community take even part here in the forum so that non of these threads are in the slightes representable.

And sure, you say this, but does he really talk about this little portion? This hardcore-player bashing here in the forum is just sickening ...

Most discussion about this thema, are not longer about pro and cons, but the feelings of little kids who want to let out their anger on groups they dont like ...

And yes, this, my comment is also about my little feeling about these people. Confuse-jump me~

Edited May 10, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Ashen.2907]

3 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Do you mean the raiders who follow Teacup or of what raiders are you talking?

Me, Friends and other raider i know never asked for something like this. Most raider i know, inkluiding me also hate the DE-Meta.

You say the forum suffers from survival-bias. Do you count yourself in there? As far as I can see, all your comments are about how bad raiders and hardcore players are, and you make up things that aren't true at all. Like certain other people here ... so, speaking of Bias.

He seems to be equating those who desired at least some challenge in the OW with raiders. It is a false comparison. Raiders prefer instanced content where they can control group composition and performance. People who want OW challenge are OW players who just want challenges worthy of their efforts. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Erise.5614]

48 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

But you know, this goes both sides. Casuals talking that content should just die because THEY don't like it and Raiders who write spam-comments or say git good.

I don't believe I've seen that point made. If so, I would have spoken out against it and it would be an extremely niche opinion.

Most people I see advocate for free choice. Not "destruction" of everyone else.

48 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

But people like him(and i mean both sides) talk, as if everyone is like this. But in reality such a small part of the actually community take even part here in the forum so that non of these threads are in the slightes representable.

It is representative of the hardcore community. Not everyone is like this. Sure. But enough for it to be visible ingame and to be a very major part of the narrative. Not just on the forums but also through content creators like Teapot, reddit, etc. 

Returning the discussion on "leeches", "11111", "lazy casuals", "antisocial solos", etc. 

That is the most visible part of the hardcore community and it's, if not supported, not spoken out against either.

48 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

And sure, you say this, but does he really talk about this little portion? This hardcore-player bashing here in the forum is just sickening ...

But, different to the hardcore narrative, I'm seeing people speaking out against this. Generally. Serious bashing or poor suggestions have negative feedback. Even from people who mostly argue for non hardcore content.

I don't see any of the usual hardcore suspects speak out against the mocking of people who do not enjoy that content. But a lot are condoning or participating in mockery and bad faith arguments themselves.

48 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Most discussion about this thema, are not longer about pro and cons, but the feelings of little kids who want to let out their anger on groups they dont like ...

Quod erat demonstrandum. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Fuchslein.8639]

4 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

I don't believe I've seen that point made. If so, I would have spoken out against it and it would be an extremely niche opinion.

Most people I see advocate for free choice. Not "destruction" of everyone else.

It is representative of the hardcore community. Not everyone is like this. Sure. But enough for it to be visible ingame and to be a very major part of the narrative. Not just on the forums but also through content creators like Teapot, reddit, etc. 

Returning the discussion on "leeches", "11111", "lazy casuals", "antisocial solos", etc. 

That is the most visible part of the hardcore community and it's, if not supported, not spoken out against either.

But, different to the hardcore narrative, I'm seeing people speaking out against this. Generally. Serious bashing or poor suggestions have negative feedback. Even from people who mostly argue for non hardcore content.

I don't see any of the usual hardcore suspects speak out against the mocking of people who do not enjoy that content. You can't be sensitive about this kind of stuff while ignoring or even condoning and participating in mockery and bad faith discussion yourself.

Quod erat demonstrandum. 

Because the comment got deleted, as i can also no longer find my answer in the archiv. Which is nice, mostly these comments stay while other comments i saw with no insult whatsoever get deleted...

Most people you see, yes. Most people i see are the complete diference. I don't know about this thread, i didn't read much of it because this thema frustrates me, but threads of the last month who plopped on about raiders and hardcore-players. But everytime i plopped into this thread some people just acused stuff whitout any facts(your where one of them with the dungeonstuff), even when this thread here is about better rewards for harder encdgame-content like the strike cm ... but people hang up on Teapot and raiders. Or complete different themes ... i got banns her for "derailing a discussion" but this thread is 12 Pages long and most posts don't talk about the thema itself.

And sorry but the last sentence i don't get

"I don't see any of the usual hardcore suspects speak out against the mocking of people who do not enjoy that content. You can't be sensitive about this kind of stuff while ignoring or even condoning and participating in mockery and bad faith discussion yourself."

English is not my main-language but even when i translate this via deepL i don't understand this sentence. Where is a need that we hardcoreplayer need to defend us month-long from some people who acuse stuff, like the one guy whose friend had ONE bad expierence and now all hardcore-players are bad. I'm just to persistent and annoying and can't often ingore this stuff. Call it my addiction when you want, i don't play lotto or stuff, i read weird claims in a forum and get frustrated ^^''.
And where did i mock this person? I just said the truth. And when he really just speaks from the few "subjects" here on the forum, than he could have phrased this and all his other comments this way.

I know my english is not good, one time i used DeepL when i wanted that people can understand me completly but i always try to speak for myself or say that other please correct me when i say something wrong about things i don't know 100%. And i know you cant change other people, but you can speak against them. And that was what i was doing. Because he was wrong the way he phrased his comment. I'm not a psych, i can't read between lines. I read that what is written on the monitor before me.

[Fuchslein.8639]

I mean, can someone answer me whitout any claims why it would be bad to at least put fair Rewards behind the new strikes and strike cm's?

This thread is 12 pages long, someone has to be a answer to this ^^''.

 

There are ton of threads who talk about the DE-Meta and the rewards and this is okay. But better rewards for Strikes? This is bad?

Edited May 10, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Shikaru.7618]

4 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

You're correct that other games don't let players mess up their builds as badly as GW2 does, but I disagree that GW2 should in any way adopt a similar system for any players, new or otherwise.

I've said on multiple occasions that our LFG problems simply cannot be solved because of the raw build freedom GW2 offers us. All the other games that can have functioning LFGs either (1) have strictly defined builds that the game doesn't allow players to deviate from, or (2) combat is so homogenous that it just doesn't matter what you are.

Both of those options would be enormously destructive of what makes GW2 special. I firmly disagree that the game should give new players some sort of locked-in, idiot-proof setup.

Ultimately, it comes down to a hard truth that we're not used to hearing in gaming: certain players are not worth attempting to retain. If your enjoyment of GW2 is predicated on having it imitate other games' rigid build enforcement, over the long term I don't know if GW2 is the game for you anyways.

Also, I'm not saying that wanting a rigid class/build identity is a fringe or unpopular position. If anything, that seems to be the norm, based on how much more enormously popular such games are compared to GW2. GW2's status as the sort of 'forgotten' title among the big games out today suggests people who enjoy and thrive in a very fluid build system are in the minority.

In the end, I don't particularly care whether or not the game has rigid build enforcement. I'm simply stating why new players will never be welcome in my weekly raid clears and how the game could change so that I don't feel this way towards them. They are more than welcome to run a full cleric rifle warrior (I've actually seen this in open world), and call it a build that works for them. That's fine and all in open world (even this is debatable with metas like DE) but their happy little fantasy is going to get shattered as soon as they try instanced content and get repeatedly kicked for standing 1200 range, doing no dps, bringing no CC, and stealing agro from the designated tank. All because the game never bothered to even notify them that their build is bad. Conversely I also don't care if you're a cleric rifle warrior if you're somehow able to output 30k dps, heal an entire sub, or output necessary boons. In the end all I care about is the final output.

Feedback from the game doesn't have to be "Sorry, you cannot run this stat combination". It could be "you received less rewards for this event because your damage/healing/boon/cc contribution was not high enough. To receive full rewards you must do at least X amount. You did Y amount."

Edited May 10, 2022 by Shikaru.7618

[Fuchslein.8639]

4 minutes ago, Shikaru.7618 said:

In the end, I don't particularly care whether or not the game has rigid build enforcement. I'm simply stating why new players will never be welcome in my weekly raid clears and how the game could change so that I don't feel this way towards them. They are more than welcome to run a full cleric rifle warrior (I've actually seen this in open world), and call it a build that works for them. That's fine and all in open world (even this is debatable with metas like DE) but their happy little fantasy is going to get shattered as soon as they try instanced content and get repeatedly kicked for standing 1200 range, doing no dps, bringing no CC, and stealing agro from the designated tank. All because the game never bothered to even notify them that their build is bad. Conversely I also don't care if you're a cleric rifle warrior if you're somehow able to output 30k dps, heal an entire sub, or output necessary boons. In the end all I care about is the final output.

 

Feedback from the game doesn't have to be "Sorry, you cannot run this stat combination". It could be "you received less rewards for this even because your damage/healing/boon/cc contribution was not high enough. To receive full rewards you must do at least X amount. You did Y amount."

You only accept dps who do 30k dps?

 

So just in case, so no one can say raiders all want this. The least expect 30k dps from you guys. In groups where i where 15-20k is the number we want to see, and even if you are under this number on the golem, as long as you don't fail mechanics for dps, you are completly okay.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Fuchslein.8639

[Shikaru.7618]

3 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

You only accept dps who do 30k dps?

number is arbitrary to illustrate a point about adequate output. in practice anything above 25k as a dps and anything above 15k as a dps boon provider on golem is likely fine to beat the enrage timer.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Shikaru.7618

[Erise.5614]

5 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

but threads of the last month who plopped on about raiders and hardcore-players.

One thing that few people seem to understand is that it's not about raiders or hardcore players. It's about the content format of raids and hardcore content in GW2.

It's a subtle difference. But very, very few people attack the players who enjoy hardcore content. Most people I see share how they had bad experiences with it and like to avoid that side of the game. As well as thoughts about how they would like to keep grinding towards their goal without being forced into the content. Like this:

9 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Where is a need that we hardcoreplayer need to defend us month-long from some people who acuse stuff, like the one guy whose friend had ONE bad expierence and now all hardcore-players are bad.

That example is not at all about how all hardcore players are bad. But about how there's too high expectations, too little opportunity to start playing that content and participation within it being not enjoyable as a result.

It's about how playing hardcore content can be unenjoyable to some. Which is usually responded to by hardcore players with mockery. Basically proving the point.

8 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

even when this thread here is about better rewards for harder encdgame-content like the strike cm

To be fair. This thread is about teapot. OP just told people one example of a video to watch.

12 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

And where did i mock this person? I just said the truth. And when he really just speaks from the few "subjects" here on the forum, than he could have phrased this and all his other comments this way.

You basically called them an angry child one comment earlier. For doing nothing but sharing a perspective and anecdote how they can not get a friend of theirs into hardcore GW2 due to such a bad experience.

13 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Because he was wrong the way he phrased his comment. I'm not a psych, i can't read between lines. I read that what is written on the monitor before me.

Honestly. That sounds more like your language barrier being a problem than their comment being wrong. It was an anecdote. Something that happened to them. You did read between the lines and interpret malice into the comment. Despite there being none.

And call them an angry child for doing so.

9 minutes ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

I mean, can someone answer me whitout any claims why it would be bad to at least put fair Rewards behind the new strikes and strike cm's?

Again. It's not really the topic of this thread. But late game rewards are incredibly difficult to balance right. No matter what you do, it will always be unrewarding if things don't go smoothly while being very valuable if you run with an experienced team. If you clear everything first try the rewards aren't bad at all.

Then there is the need for retention. In other words, once a player owns everything there is to own, they will likely stop playing. So rewards slowing down towards the end of the game is a common design technique. It mustn't be completely unrewarding but it can't speed up infinitely. Or it needs to come up with equal or greater amounts of costs that take away gold again. Which is doubly bad because it makes it more possible for them to buy gems and harm the profits of ArenaNet.

There is a risk to the economy if rewards keep increasing infinitely. The current economy is built around end game players buying stuff from newer / inexperienced players. Giving out too many materials or too much liquid gold causes inflation and makes it harder to catch up. Harming the games economy overall. 

Personally I think it's a mistake ANet focuses so much on gold per hour and allows people to focus so much on it. It's not sustainable to keep everything centered around gold. It allows rich players to super speedrun through new content by simply buying everything and makes for really weird progression. There should be more focus on account bound, content specific rewards. Teaching players, especially hardcore players, over time to put less value on gold and more value on secondary currencies. This way every expansion could introduce a new set of rewards. Especially focused around skins. Around prestige. Which is the kind of reward with the least negative consequences of all kind. 

The real problem with your comment is the word "fair".

What is "fair"? What is rewarding? 

This is very much about design. How desirable something is, is intentionally designed and crafted by ArenaNet. Though they do struggle with that.

However, just increasing flat gold rewards infinitely is not a viable long term solution.

[Ashen.2907]

53 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

One thing that few people seem to understand is that it's not about raiders or hardcore players. It's about the content format of raids and hardcore content in GW2.

It's a subtle difference. But very, very few people attack the players who enjoy hardcore content. Most people I see share how they had bad experiences with it and like to avoid that side of the game. As well as thoughts about how they would like to keep grinding towards their goal without being forced into the content. Like this:

That example is not at all about how all hardcore players are bad. But about how there's too high expectations, too little opportunity to start playing that content and participation within it being not enjoyable as a result.

It's about how playing hardcore content can be unenjoyable to some. Which is usually responded to by hardcore players with mockery. Basically proving the point.

To be fair. This thread is about teapot. OP just told people one example of a video to watch.

You basically called them an angry child one comment earlier. For doing nothing but sharing a perspective and anecdote how they can not get a friend of theirs into hardcore GW2 due to such a bad experience.

Honestly. That sounds more like your language barrier being a problem than their comment being wrong. It was an anecdote. Something that happened to them. You did read between the lines and interpret malice into the comment. Despite there being none.

And call them an angry child for doing so.

Again. It's not really the topic of this thread. But late game rewards are incredibly difficult to balance right. No matter what you do, it will always be unrewarding if things don't go smoothly while being very valuable if you run with an experienced team. If you clear everything first try the rewards aren't bad at all.

Then there is the need for retention. In other words, once a player owns everything there is to own, they will likely stop playing. So rewards slowing down towards the end of the game is a common design technique. It mustn't be completely unrewarding but it can't speed up infinitely. Or it needs to come up with equal or greater amounts of costs that take away gold again. Which is doubly bad because it makes it more possible for them to buy gems and harm the profits of ArenaNet.

There is a risk to the economy if rewards keep increasing infinitely. The current economy is built around end game players buying stuff from newer / inexperienced players. Giving out too many materials or too much liquid gold causes inflation and makes it harder to catch up. Harming the games economy overall. 

Personally I think it's a mistake ANet focuses so much on gold per hour and allows people to focus so much on it. It's not sustainable to keep everything centered around gold. It allows rich players to super speedrun through new content by simply buying everything and makes for really weird progression. There should be more focus on account bound, content specific rewards. Teaching players, especially hardcore players, over time to put less value on gold and more value on secondary currencies. This way every expansion could introduce a new set of rewards. Especially focused around skins. Around prestige. Which is the kind of reward with the least negative consequences of all kind. 

The real problem with your comment is the word "fair".

What is "fair"? What is rewarding? 

This is very much about design. How desirable something is, is intentionally designed and crafted by ArenaNet. Though they do struggle with that.

However, just increasing flat gold rewards infinitely is not a viable long term solution.

I disagree with the point about very very few people attacking those who enjoy hardcore content. I see it frequently both here and in game. The fact that pejorative terms such as, "try hard," (and more) have been invented and entered common use are a solid indication that the attitude, and its expression, is not niche. And, to be clear, I say this as a casual who plays with other casuals, who is a member of multiple casual guilds. 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

When you don't have the time or the desire to play this content, that is fine. But then why is the need so big to derail every little thing from this content?
When it's not enjoyable for you, than don't play it. You know how much i want, and can't get because i don't like the content? And what would happen here when every player would come and talk about that?
How do you think, new player would see OW-content when every player who had a bad incident would come here, talk about it and other would begin to share their negative inputs? But for some reason, when someone talks bad about OW, people come(me included) and say report, block and move on.

 

 

So ... lets take the example a scenario :

Casual wanted an OW legenary set , to get away from raiders and content they don't like . The armor could look like Roblock.

 

Raiders tells them to do that specific  content or they don't need that gear , in hope that the boosted numbers show the company the people love Raids .

 

Doesn't  seems like a hostage situation ? Doesnt this create conflict ? Do i have time to call my dad , Liam Neeson , under the bed (Taken 1) ?

 

Edit: as far as rewards goes , the majority of the community simple don't join your case , because of the above conflict and they dont do the content . Otherwise they could be duchbags and tell you "come join open farms and we in return we go into raids , lololololol"

Edited May 10, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Firebeard.1746]

3 hours ago, Fuchslein.8639 said:

Do you mean the raiders who follow Teacup or of what raiders are you talking?

Me, Friends and other raider i know never asked for something like this. Most raider i know, inkluiding me also hate the DE-Meta.

You say the forum suffers from survival-bias. Do you count yourself in there? As far as I can see, all your comments are about how bad raiders and hardcore players are, and you make up things that aren't true at all. Like certain other people here ... so, speaking of Bias.

You're right, I'm missing nuance here. I also at this point have raided enough for coalescence and am just shy a few LI  to being about to craft 5 pieces of legendary armor. So I talk about hardcore players as "other" while I could theoretically be labelled as one at this point. What I really mean when i talk about this is people who think that the meta as it currently stands is good, and that playing anything off-meta is bad. I literally couldn't finish the video where teapot talks about trying to get new players to play like raiderse in OW. And quite frankly, it's not fun, imo, and kills all the build diversity both in gear and traitlines when you have so few "right" answers in terms of build. That's what I'm talking about when I talk about "hardcore" players. People trying to force others to play this meta, that in my opinion formed organically, it doesn't seem to match the manifesto and it's not fun to play. 

There are raiders who don't like this level of challenge and chaos in the game. Because it essentially holds you hostage to so much of someone else's play. I respect them.

And I do count myself in survivor bias. I'm not commenting nearly as much as I used to, because I don't feel tied to the game anymore. And I might stop altogether soon. i'm not sure anet gives a kitten about playesr who don't want to play raid metas any more. At least in terms of PVE given their choices. And the metas in EoD outside of DE haven't hit me as hard as Dragonfall or other metas I've enjoyed, so I feel like they don't have a commitment to event driven, organic experiences in large meta events like they've had in the past. 

My impression is that far fewer players are playing. When I have done LLA since EoD launch, population has been really low, sometimes not even enough to do it efficiently, before EoD, it was usually a 1-burn unless you were in the runoff map. One of my guilds seems enitrely dead, I see no comments when i am online. 

And Don't get me wrong, I do want something for passionate players in the game to do, but I feel like doing it at everyone else's expense, and abandoning the DNA of the game is wrong. 

Raiders aren't all bad. Though getting into raiding may make you feel otherwise while you're trying to hit the point of enough KP for people to take you. 

[Linken.6345]

33 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

So ... lets take the example a scenario :

Casual wanted an OW legenary set , to get away from raiders and content they don't like . The armor could look like Roblock.

 

Raiders tells them to do that specific  content or they don't need that gear , in hope that the boosted numbers show the company the people love Raids .

 

Doesn't  seems like a hostage situation ? Doesnt this create conflict ? Do i have time to call my dad , Liam Neeson , under the bed (Taken 1) ?

 

Edit: as far as rewards goes , the majority of the community simple don't join your case , because of the above conflict and they dont do the content . Otherwise they could be duchbags and tell you "come join open farms and we in return we go into raids , lololololol"

Then go do pve stuff in wvw camps, sentry, veteran creature and work your way up to even towers and keeps.

You will have your legendary armor given time.

You might even earn some gift of battle for legenary weapons.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

10 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Then go do pve stuff in wvw camps, sentry, veteran creature and work your way up to even towers and keeps.

You will have your legendary armor given time.

You might even earn some gift of battle for legenary weapons.

Thank you i will .

The company saw that surge with people going there for the armor , and it will revive the WvW

If you want more rewards , you can join open world , with us

Edited May 10, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940