Lets face it Scrapper needs a huge DPS buff

[Mell.4873]

While the other two engineer elites can pull off 38k DPS minimum, scrapper is stuck with 32k or even lower at 28k if they decide to apply quickness.
I don't mind the barrier nerf if it was offset with higher damage which right now it isn't. Lets hope the upcoming patch provides some flat damage number increases to the scrapper tree.

Another big problem with the engineer top DPS builds is they all rely on Grenade kit which dare i say very boring. I don't really know a fix for this since its kind on Engineer thing to have bother power and Condi share a kit for damage but it makes the whole class very dry.

PS: I'm on the look out for a new main to stick legendary armor on

Edited May 5, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Spie.5024]

New main for medium armour or any? 
Engi is the best medium class I guess. 
although both ranger and thief are fine as well I guess for pve? 

[Stx.4857]

Agreed. Scrapper having the worst damage and also the worst sustain makes no sense and really shows how lazy the class balancing is in this game, the impact Savant nerf should have been packaged with some form of compensation.  

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Spie.5024 said:

New main for medium armour or any? 
Engi is the best medium class I guess. 
although both ranger and thief are fine as well I guess for pve? 

I don't want legendary armor for light armor classes since I don't play ele or necro. I do already play ranger and prior to maining mesmer I did play engi and theif alot. 

[Mell.4873]

50 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

Agreed. Scrapper having the worst damage and also the worst sustain makes no sense and really shows how lazy the class balancing is in this game, the impact Savant nerf should have been packaged with some form of compensation.  

I was doing some testing and if you play it pure support is does okay damage but again supports are not supposed to deal damage so it is a waste. 

During my testing I could get roughly and extra 4k damage while healing/quickness. 

[Rosiep.9128]

Scrapper needs to be looked at all over again. The problem with buffing scrapper in its current state is that it has a major niche in WvW zerging in the form of its bulwark gyro, stability bubble, cleanse gyro, mobile smoke field, function gyros and hammer 5. This is coming from an engineer main who loves scrappers core identity, any buffs to scrapper in its current state would make it even more dominant in WvW zerging and to an extent roaming due to the condi roaming builds.

 

Therefore I think it's a better idea to rework scrapper (again) than to try and balance buffs and nerfs in its current state where it either becomes all powerful or ridiculously weak like it is now. 

[The Boz.2038]

11 hours ago, Rosiep.9128 said:

Scrapper needs to be looked at all over again

This.

Giving us team quickness was really good and nice and comfy, but it compares unfavorably to other quick-givers, while not even being in the consideration category as a DPS.

Inverting Blast Gyro to Pull, and lowering its CD to 20 would be absolutely mint, though.

Edited May 6, 2022 by The Boz.2038

[RabbitUp.8294]

8 hours ago, Rosiep.9128 said:

Scrapper needs to be looked at all over again. The problem with buffing scrapper in its current state is that it has a major niche in WvW zerging in the form of its bulwark gyro, stability bubble, cleanse gyro, mobile smoke field, function gyros and hammer 5. This is coming from an engineer main who loves scrappers core identity, any buffs to scrapper in its current state would make it even more dominant in WvW zerging and to an extent roaming due to the condi roaming builds.

 

Therefore I think it's a better idea to rework scrapper (again) than to try and balance buffs and nerfs in its current state where it either becomes all powerful or ridiculously weak like it is now. 

Classes are split between game modes, any buff would be pve-only.

First of all, the support build is fine, both power quickness and heal variants. There are a few simple ways to buff dps scrapper, though. Applied Force is the obvious one, because it's competing with Kinetic Accelerators. Maybe Mass Momentum could also increase the damage of gyros, again since this trait is inaccessible to quickscrap.

Explosive Temper would also benefit a lot from the new EoD tech where stacks refresh duration, so it'll more consistent, and engi in general becomes less reliant on grenade kit.

 

 

 

[Raizel.8175]

3 minutes ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

First of all, the support build is fine, both power quickness and heal variants. There are a few simple ways to buff dps scrapper, though.

What a support is is quite sketchy ever since EoD though. Calling builds like Alac Specter "support" kinda irks me considering the DPS they can still achieve.

[Dadnir.5038]

18 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

What a support is is quite sketchy ever since EoD though. Calling builds like Alac Specter "support" kinda irks me considering the DPS they can still achieve.

Well, the devs want to divide the roles in a party into "heal, dps, quickness and alac" with a supposed trade off of needing to trade dps stat for boon duration in order to keep up "strong boons".

Obviously we all know that it's an utopia but that's what the devs are trying to work toward right now. They will soon realize that the gear stat set aren't going to make this utopia easy to achieve.

[RabbitUp.8294]

45 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Well, the devs want to divide the roles in a party into "heal, dps, quickness and alac" with a supposed trade off of needing to trade dps stat for boon duration in order to keep up "strong boons".

Obviously we all know that it's an utopia but that's what the devs are trying to work toward right now. They will soon realize that the gear stat set aren't going to make this utopia easy to achieve.

I don't see what the problem is. Boon dps hybrid builds all have some damage tradeoff. Alacmirage is arguable a bit too high currently, but the rest are mostly fine.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, RabbitUp.8294 said:

I don't see what the problem is. Boon dps hybrid builds all have some damage tradeoff. Alacmirage is arguable a bit too high currently, but the rest are mostly fine.

The issue is that we won't escape the fact that some professions will have more interesting "extra" on top of those roles which will lead to these profession being "meta" while the other won't. Raizel talk about alac specter which fall into this case of having a nice extra in the form of high damage output on top of providing alacrity (now, you sure could say that Alac mirage is similarly strong as it provide might reliably on top of alacrity but most people just flat out take might as granted nowadays so they don't see this as something as impactful as the numbers specter dish out).

[Kuma.1503]

Scrapper is a good build on paper. It does what a quickness support should do. 

It's low damage compared to other quckness builds, but it has superspeed and it's tankier than your average spec assuming you can actually hit numbers close to the benchmark. 

The problem with quickness dps scrapper is that

• You cant generate might without pushing mobs away
• You can't generate fury without taking sup-optimal choices and making your already sub-par dps even lower
• Firebrand is extremely popular and thorughly outclasses you in both utility and damage. 9/10 t4 fractal groups queue for a hB. 

Heal quickness scrapper is also a good build, but it runs into similar problems as the dps build. It also directly competes with healbrand. It's unlikely that your group won't have a Firebrand in it because it's blatantly overpowered and extremely popular. If things go wrong in pub groups , even if it its due to things outside your control (people not doing mechanics because they're used a FB doing mechanics for them) I will frequently see people relogging onto their FB to make the fight easier, even when we already have a scrapper giving perma quickness.

At that point, the pressure is on you to switch because the firebrand is simply an objectively better choice. 

Either Scrapper needs a buff or Firebrand needs a fat nerf. Otherwise it will continue to be underplayed even if it is technically a functional/viable build for endgame content. 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Mell.4873]

12 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Scrapper is a good build on paper. It does what a quickness support should do. 

It's low damage compared to other quckness builds, but it has superspeed and it's tankier than your average spec assuming you can actually hit numbers close to the benchmark. 

The problem with quickness dps scrapper is that

• You cant generate might without pushing mobs away
• You can't generate fury without taking sup-optimal choices and making your already sub-par dps even lower
• Firebrand is extremely popular and thorughly outclasses you in both utility and damage. 9/10 t4 fractal groups queue for a hB. 

Heal quickness scrapper is also a good build, but it runs into similar problems as the dps build. It also directly competes with healbrand. It's unlikely that your group won't have a Firebrand in it because it's blatantly overpowered and extremely popular. If things go wrong in pub groups , even if it its due to things outside your control (people not doing mechanics because they're used a FB doing mechanics for them) I will frequently see people relogging onto their FB to make the fight easier, even when we already have a scrapper giving perma quickness.

At that point, the pressure is on you to switch because the firebrand is simply an objectively better choice. 

Either Scrapper needs a buff or Firebrand needs a fat nerf. Otherwise it will continue to be underplayed even if it is technically a functional/viable build for endgame content. 

 

Yeah we agree, Scrapper is to much a jack of all trades. I can pull high dps that my other healer + quickness characters but what's the point when I have less boons and less heals than them. 

Over all I feel like the class excels at open world and WvW content and that's about it. Maybe if the dps was buffed by 5k you could see it being a good off-healer or off-quickness option. 

[shion.2084]

Mell.... for scrapper try something like this.   Routinely will score you top DPS. 2 stun breaks.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlFw0YeMLWJO6TftWA-zZILjSLgeTANGA

I have a variant that does shredder gyro instead of 'nades and swaps mortar for supply crate.

[Shaogin.2679]

On 5/7/2022 at 3:22 AM, Kuma.1503 said:

Scrapper is a good build on paper. It does what a quickness support should do. 

It's low damage compared to other quckness builds, but it has superspeed and it's tankier than your average spec assuming you can actually hit numbers close to the benchmark. 

The problem with quickness dps scrapper is that

• You cant generate might without pushing mobs away
• You can't generate fury without taking sup-optimal choices and making your already sub-par dps even lower
• Firebrand is extremely popular and thorughly outclasses you in both utility and damage. 9/10 t4 fractal groups queue for a hB. 

Heal quickness scrapper is also a good build, but it runs into similar problems as the dps build. It also directly competes with healbrand. It's unlikely that your group won't have a Firebrand in it because it's blatantly overpowered and extremely popular. If things go wrong in pub groups , even if it its due to things outside your control (people not doing mechanics because they're used a FB doing mechanics for them) I will frequently see people relogging onto their FB to make the fight easier, even when we already have a scrapper giving perma quickness.

At that point, the pressure is on you to switch because the firebrand is simply an objectively better choice. 

Either Scrapper needs a buff or Firebrand needs a fat nerf. Otherwise it will continue to be underplayed even if it is technically a functional/viable build for endgame content. 

 

Firebrand is just bloated and needs a nerf.

[Kuma.1503]

32 minutes ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

Firebrand is just bloated and needs a nerf.

Yup. I doubt they will though.

I've started gearing out my FB to fill my quickness needs. In part I do genuinely enjoy the playstyle (not as much as I enjoyed Scrapper, but Scrapper simply isn't fun after the impact savant nerf). In part because I don't expect engi's place in the meta to last much longer. 

Mech isn't long for this world. The community hates AI, it competes with FB which puts an even bigger target on its head, and thus far it has been nerfed in every major patch (it even received a hotfix nerf after it had just been nerfed). Why put up with Anet's rollercoaster balancing when you can just play a class that is consistent and stable.  If you can't beat them, join them. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Shaogin.2679]

36 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Yup. I doubt they will though.

I've started gearing out my FB to fill my quickness needs. In part I do genuinely enjoy the playstyle (not as much as I enjoyed Scrapper, but Scrapper simply isn't fun after the impact savant nerf). In part because I don't expect engi's place in the meta to last much longer. 

Mech isn't long for this world. The community hates AI, it competes with FB which puts an even bigger target on its head, and thus far it has been nerfed in every major patch (it even received a hotfix nerf after it had just been nerfed). Why put up with Anet's rollercoaster balancing when you can just play a class that is consistent and stable.  If you can't beat them, join them. 

Yeah, honestly, Firebrand should not bring both great damage and great utility. There has to be a tradeoff. But currently it is so difficult for any quickness specs to compete with it since it brings both more damage and more utility in the form of stability, cleanses, aegis, and reflects, all from tomes which requires no investment at all.

[Kuma.1503]

22 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Mech isn't long for this world. The community hates AI, it competes with FB which puts an even bigger target on its head, and thus far it has been nerfed in every major patch 

The trend continues. 

[Mell.4873]

On 5/10/2022 at 5:32 AM, shion.2084 said:

Mell.... for scrapper try something like this.   Routinely will score you top DPS. 2 stun breaks.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAIlFw0YeMLWJO6TftWA-zZILjSLgeTANGA

I have a variant that does shredder gyro instead of 'nades and swaps mortar for supply crate.

I play closer to the snowcrow/metabattle DPS so this build would be even less damage than what I currently use.

[shion.2084]

16 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I play closer to the snowcrow/metabattle DPS so this build would be even less damage than what I currently use.

I don't even see a conquest build for scrapper on meta battle... got a link?

My shredder mortar spam variant got me 44% team damage at 616K yesterday.  I almost approached will bender territory 😉

That was unusually high for me though.

[shion.2084]

huh.... this one maybe.... put some conquest equivalent...
https://snowcrows.com/builds/engineer/scrapper/power-quickness-scrapper
 

but if you have nades... for range... and you want Damage... I'd wonder why not crate.   Also this build seems suicidal to me 🙂.  At higher tiers I'd get farmed ridiculously with it.   with scholar and zerker your looking at like 14K health?

[shion.2084]

ok... I get it now.  You might not be playing conquest.  Which would explain things....

[Mell.4873]

14 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

ok... I get it now.  You might not be playing conquest.  Which would explain things....

Yes I meant PvE, for PvP I only play Ranger. I have tried scrapper a few times but if they have to much condi it can be rough.

[wasss.1208]

I'm honestly fine with the damage Scrapper does now. What I'm not fine with is, that a lot of things were made inconvinient, for no reason at all. 

For example, Function Gyro: "Create a lightning field at the specified point. Then summon gyros to finish foes and revive allies within the field. The recharge of this skill is increased for each gyro created beyond the first. Interrupted gyros are destroyed."
Why is there a cooldown extension on this skill? Is it problematic in PvP/WvW roaming? Because I barely see more than 1 gyros spawned there... Is it problematic in Zerg WvW? Because gyros get cleaved down instantly there. Is it problematic in PvE? Because I can see other specs have the same ability, on 20 sec cd, if they slot in an adept, or master trait. So why is the extra cd there? It just punishes you, if you try to use the skill, for what it was originally intended to do. "Oops, you spawned 3 gyros, now you are locked out of this skill for 50 seconds." This messes up quickness uptime in PvE, messes up superspeed cd in wvw.

Other example, the famous Vitality nerf: "A percentage of the strike damage you deal is converted into barrier. Your vitality is reduced." The vitality nerf was implemented, because at that time decap scrapper in PvP, and support scrapper in WvW was (and still is) dominant. They sold this to us, as a "trade-off, to force a different playstyle on the elit specs"... in reality, it was just a nerf for bunker builds, and a slap in the face for every other Scrapper. The fact, that this trait doesn't work on conditions is already shoehorning scrapper into a power based playstyle, (despite it having access to good condi skills) so the vitality nerf on top doesn't make sense. Same goes for Berserker and Druid, too. Stat nerfs are lazy, and don't change your playstyle.