"Rune of the Trapper (PvP): Reduced stealth duration from 3 seconds to 1 second"

[SlayerXX.7138]

4 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

The second point is that aside from what people actually thought of the build, it is also objectively a noob-stomper build because it shares the same objective traits as other noob-stomper builds:

Yeah we are in agreement here. It is a noob stomper build. I called that toxic for the game mode. But we are on the same page here.

 

2 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Secondly, the purpose of what I’m taking about is that this build wouldn’t be a problem if other builds weren’t nerfed into uselessness like how it was 5-7 years ago. There were plenty of builds people could play that made DH not a problem at all. Now your nerfing this build into uselessness…don’t you see the pattern here?

But it was a problem for low ranked player. Not because there weren't any counters, but because the mechanic itself was something average play cant deal with. All the noob stomper builds have counter. That's why they stop being good real fast at high rank. My whole point is that a new or average player cant deal with them. The fact that some high APM meta build counters Dh mean nothing to someone in silver. The build wasn´t toxic because it was op or didn't have a counter. The build was toxic because preys on the weakness of new and average players. How long are you playing that you cant understand that?

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

22 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Yeah we are in agreement here. It is a noob stomper build. I called that toxic for the game mode. But we are on the same page here.

 

But it was a problem for low ranked player. Not because there weren't any counters, but because the mechanic itself was something average play cant deal with. All the noob stomper builds have counter. That's why they stop being good real fast at high rank. My whole point is that a new or average player cant deal with them. The fact that some high APM meta build counters Dh mean nothing to someone in silver. The build wasn´t toxic because it was op or didn't have a counter. The build was toxic because preys on the weakness of new and average players. How long are you playing that you cant understand that?

 

That is what a noob-stomper builds purpose is...to stomp noobs. What you are supposed to do is learn how "the very easy to understand, how this build works," build works...and play skills, traits and builds that help counter it...

 

This is like the fundamental essence of what it means to learn how to play the game and get better at playing the game...stuff beats you, you study your experiences, change things and adapt... and this is how you get better as a player. You don't cry and call for nerfs every-time something beats you. But this seems to be the normal here on the forums.

 

The problems occur when there are no more viable options for you to adapt...because all the options have been nerfed into uselessness...and this is the point I was actually making from the start.

Edited May 11, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[ShionKreth.1542]

8 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

This.

To anyone that missed it; the build wasn't "strong", the build was *toxic*. 

But instead of fixing the rune, replacing the bonus, ANet decided to just nerf the stealth duration because !? I guess.

 

What does that even mean, though? That the opponents of people who used it didn't like it? Of course they didn't, it's how their vulnerable prey gets away. How can people call for things that they admit aren't strong to be nerfed? Just so they can more easily beat builds that won't be able to beat them in a straight fight, and that way they won't be able to escape, either? Oh wait, it makes perfect sense after typing it out. 😄

[SlayerXX.7138]

1 hour ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

The problems occur when there are no more viable options for you to adapt...because all the options have been nerfed into uselessness...and this is the point I was actually making from the start.

Stop talking about nerfed into uselessness. Below plat you can basically play anything reasonable and succeed. Heck I got top 250 with some meme build you wont find on any metabattle side. Take your own advise, stop whining and adapt.

1 hour ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

This is like the fundamental essence of what it means to learn how to play the game and get better at playing the game...stuff beats you, you study your experiences, change things and adapt... and this is how you get better as a player. You don't cry and call for nerfs every-time something beats you. But this seems to be the normal here on the forums.

Silver noob 1 losing to silver noob 2 because noob 2 presses 1 on flamethrower and doing plat levels of dps is not the fault of noob 1. It is the game punishing noob 1 for playing something not degenerate while learning the game.

Noob 2 gonna rank up to a point where he has two choices. Keep playing at a level where he fluctuates between stomping and being stomped, as a noobstomper builds go from very strong to bad real quick. Or take a 10+ lose streak to rank down to his actual skill level(and then going to the forums complaining about match making:D). Or of course stop playing altogether.

Their is a bunch of toxic builds where there is no natural progression to learn how to counter them. Sure you could put hours into research what exactly kills you(death screen is still useless) and some extra hours dueling in PvP to polish your mechanics.

 

Or just not play PvP. And that is clearly what most people choose to do. 

[Zekent.3652]

How many more years til a Trapper rune fan finally understands that the complains on the rune is NOT because it's broken (it's not), but because it's ANNOYING, like the trapper rune fans lmao.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

1 hour ago, Albi.7250 said:

Sure you could put hours into research what exactly kills you(death screen is still useless) and some extra hours dueling in PvP to polish your mechanics.

 

Or just not play PvP. And that is clearly what most people choose to do. 

There comes a point where you have to expect new or inexperienced players to put their nose to the grindstone and improve. If they choose not to do that and just keep flailing about blindly, then they stay where they deserve;  carried by their builds until they get stomped by players that know how to work around it, or where they are realistically based on their skill level.

 

If they quit, then that's their problem. 

[SlayerXX.7138]

55 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

There comes a point where you have to expect new or inexperienced players to put their nose to the grindstone and improve

And that point shouldn't be silver 2. And the reason should be other players being better not the game fighting them.

 

56 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

If they quit, then that's their problem.

It is more our problem then theirs. I at least am tiered of seeing the same guys over and over again in my games. Or being matched against top 10 players while being gold3/plat1.

[ShionKreth.1542]

1 hour ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

How many more years til a Trapper rune fan finally understands that the complains on the rune is NOT because it's broken (it's not), but because it's ANNOYING, like the trapper rune fans lmao.

 

I mean, who wants to have their totally average build nerfed because someone who beats you half the time or more, anyway, complains that it's 'annoying'? Nobody, you can't possibly expect that.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

2 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

Stop talking about nerfed into uselessness. Below plat you can basically play anything reasonable and succeed. Heck I got top 250 with some meme build you wont find on any metabattle side. Take your own advise, stop whining and adapt.

 

Maybe you don’t know what nerfed into uselessness means.

 

Hammer Warrior losing all of its damage = uselessness. 

PP Thief only being able to use Unload for 3000 damage once because the initiative cost is too high = uselessness (a thief DH counter btw)

0 energy rev’s rune getting an ICD of 10 seconds = uselessness.
 

These builds still exist in the space of possible builds you can create…they are just useless…they don’t accomplish any goal that we would consider useful and in fact they help your opponent accomplish their goals because more than likely you are dying to them on these builds.

So ya no…you can’t just “play anything” that’s not how diversity and balance in games work…you play things that accomplish goals against builds attempting the same. Builds that don’t achieve any goals are useless and they die. If your whole class is a graveyard of dead useless builds…good luck adapting…play another class is the answer and you wonder why the meta game is so bland and stale?

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Zekent.3652]

18 minutes ago, ShionKreth.1542 said:

 

I mean, who wants to have their totally average build nerfed because someone who beats you half the time or more, anyway, complains that it's 'annoying'? Nobody, you can't possibly expect that.

Average build? idk man, that's literally a toxic gameplay and has to go, like mechanist being carried by their mecha, nuking with power damage while they're condi, stealth spam SA, FT Scrapper, Etc🤷‍♂️

[CutesySylveon.8290]

50 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

And that point shouldn't be silver 2. And the reason should be other players being better not the game fighting them.

 

It is more our problem then theirs. I at least am tiered of seeing the same guys over and over again in my games. Or being matched against top 10 players while being gold3/plat1.

When should it be, then? Or is it just some arbitrary point that you decide?

 

How is the game fighting them? Are they being forced by some RNG system to play builds that struggle against noob stomper builds or some other inexplicable circumstance? No, it's likely they simply don't know how to play PvP on a fundamental, don't understand their builds and the ones they're fighting, or are just playing an outright bad build that doesn't function on a cohesive level. 

 

There will always be noob stomper builds that, in effect, serve as introductions to PvP and need to be overcome. DH had plenty of counters, but you had to learn them. FT scrapper giving you trouble? Play a condi build and watch them die immediately. There will always be carry builds that do substantially more work than the players input.

New players need to come to PvP with the understanding that they have a lot to learn and that starts the moment you que up. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by CutesySylveon.8290

[SlayerXX.7138]

27 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

If your whole class is a graveyard of dead useless builds…good luck adapting…play another class is the answer and you wonder why the meta game is so bland and stale?

Now you are just grieving. What is the weakest profession right now? Warrior? And even that can kick my kitten if played by someone competent. Heavily out shined right now by other profession but still not death, YET.

 

31 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

PP Thief

Such a shame that pressing 3 isn't meta. Thief has more then enough options anyway. And even then i´m sure i or any other halve competent player could get to gold 1 with throwing around my PP set.

 

21 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

When should it be, then? Or is it just some arbitrary point that you decide?

Well if you would have payed attention silver 2 is below average. So yes i decided that is a reasonable point to not expect extreme investment to not be killed by someone pressing 111111111111111 because they play something degenerate.

 

23 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

There will always be noob stomper builds that, in effect, serve as introductions to PvP and need to be overcome.

And what a great introduction it is! You want to gatekeep the game mode you take apparently so much pride in, go ahead. I won´t  convince you otherwise anyway. You can go play with yourself then.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

2 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Such a shame that pressing 3 isn't meta.

 

Yes, it is a shame that PP thief doesn't have a functioning build. Your sarcasm on this fact makes you look like a hypocrit.

[SlayerXX.7138]

7 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Yes, it is a shame that PP thief doesn't have a functioning build. Your sarcasm on this fact makes you look like a hypocrit.

Stop whining. Like i said i´m sure any halve competent person could get PP to gold 1 if they wanted. So your argument=invalid.

You are just sad noob stomper build get reign in and you have to actually learn the game.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

7 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

Stop whining. Like i said i´m sure any halve competent person could get PP to gold 1 if they wanted. So your argument=invalid.

You are just sad noob stomper build get reign in and you have to actually learn the game.

 

You were literally comments ago complaining about the how its so UNFAIR that the 90% have to suffer at the hands of the 1%, trap guard dictatorship, and yet here you are, saying "stop whining get good scrub"

 

The irony. THE IRONY is palpable.

 

Shoulda known this conversation was gonna be be yet another massive waste of my time. 

[ShionKreth.1542]

1 hour ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

Average build? idk man, that's literally a toxic gameplay and has to go, like mechanist being carried by their mecha, nuking with power damage while they're condi, stealth spam SA, FT Scrapper, Etc🤷‍♂️

People keep asserting it wasn't broken and wasn't too strong... so yeah, average. You're just listing off builds you don't personally like and labeling them as toxic. Trying to get builds you don't personally like removed, and celebrating when that happens, is what's actually toxic, in my opinion, because you'd never want to be on the receiving end of it, yourself. 

[ttuuzz.5082]

Unfortunately this nerf killed my want to play the guild wars 2. Anet return 3 seconds stelth!

[Master Ketsu.4569]

9 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Come on Arenanet.

Do everyone a favour and remove that one second of stealth as well.

Well what they really should do it just give it something else other than stealth that would aid in trapper builds. Like 3s vigor instead.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

21 minutes ago, ttuuzz.5082 said:

Unfortunately this nerf killed my want to play the guild wars 2. Anet return 3 seconds stelth!

Hate to break it to you but if the only builds you know how to play are rott builds, you never really knew how to pvp.

[SPESHAL.9106]

The timing of the nerf is what's hilarious.  It's literally been in the game for years griefing people and then...all of a sudden...they are like...it's so bad we need to nerf it 66%.

They had to wait until WB was created and gave guardians yet ANOTHER viable build that's even better before FINALLY addressing a griefing build that should have been nerfed years ago.

The runes were actually meant for ranger builds and were less toxic, but Anet priorities are hard to follow or justify.

Edited May 12, 2022 by SPESHAL.9106

[CutesySylveon.8290]

2 hours ago, Albi.7250 said:

Now you are just grieving. What is the weakest profession right now? Warrior? And even that can kick my kitten if played by someone competent. Heavily out shined right now by other profession but still not death, YET.

 

Such a shame that pressing 3 isn't meta. Thief has more then enough options anyway. And even then i´m sure i or any other halve competent player could get to gold 1 with throwing around my PP set.

 

Well if you would have payed attention silver 2 is below average. So yes i decided that is a reasonable point to not expect extreme investment to not be killed by someone pressing 111111111111111 because they play something degenerate.

 

And what a great introduction it is! You want to gatekeep the game mode you take apparently so much pride in, go ahead. I won´t  convince you otherwise anyway. You can go play with yourself then.

Dude, the game mode is gatekept by the people you're fighting against. If you want to get better at PvP, then play it and figure it out like we all did. Nothing is gatekeeping players outside of their own choices, and if they choose to never learn a match-up or choose to play something that doesn't work, then that's on them.

 

To use FT scrapper further, it's not an extreme investment. Almost every condi build beats it because it has no cleanse without Elixir Gun and they die the moment they use that because no more stab and barrier. This isn't hard or complicated, but you have to put at least a little effort into dealing with something besides smashing your head against it and saying it's unfair, even if it is. 

[Obtena.7952]

I believe they simply don't have something to replace it with, or at least something they want to replace it with. It's not like it's a requirement for it to be useful so if they nerf it to useless, it's not that big a concern. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Zekent.3652]

2 hours ago, ShionKreth.1542 said:

People keep asserting it wasn't broken and wasn't too strong...

 

6 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

The complains on the rune is NOT because it's broken (it's not), but because it's ANNOYING, like the trapper rune fans lmao.

Literally what i just said, toxic builds are just unfun and not healthy for the game, that's it 😀

[ShionKreth.1542]

1 hour ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

 

Literally what i just said, toxic builds are just unfun and not healthy for the game, that's it 😀

A lack of build diversity is what's bad for the game, and you happening to dislike something does not make it toxic. It may have been toxic when condition trapper dh was at it's height(because it was actually overperforming), but that was already balanced separately a long time ago - no one was even talking about this rune anymore(which is probably why there's not even a reason listed for this nerf). All this is going to result in is even more untameds and willbenders... like there weren't enough already. Good for the game, indeed. smh... 

[Fueki.4753]

5 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Well what they really should do it just give it something else other than stealth that would aid in trapper builds. Like 3s vigor instead.

The Superspeed is enough for the sixth bonus.

Trapper builds are annoying enough as they are, they don't need more aid.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Fueki.4753