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How is Mesmer currently? (just returned)


SourPatchBruhs.5142

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6 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Yes, you are reading my comments very well 😅

Mesmer has a lot of options to move around and disengage. If there are specs which can do better (and there are) doesn’t mean that on Mesmer you are limited. Quite the contrary. Blink IS a powerful teleport, and you lower the cooldown using Chaos traits. Sword has teleport on all Mesmer specs. Staff has teleport and disengage. Midnight/MassInv are great at disengaging. Pistol stun, GS 3 are great tools to reach the enemy, so is Virtuoso f2 with traits (cripple). Mirage has even more reach on the elite.

Mesmer has a lot of problems, but mobility, reach and disengage ain’t one.

Sw3 is not just a teleport, its a conditional clone swap on an enemy(Since you dont seems to know, you are unable to use it without an actual target within a radius of 600 units). By listing kick off abilities that mesmer can have doesnt make it mobile. Idk what you mean by reach and I didnt even ask about it.

Blink is a powerful disangage button when everything goes not according to plan, hardly a throwaway mobility skill (Jaunt is the same, its for combat situations, unless you are super confident it wont affect). 

Imagine if I'd count how many teleports WB has or thief ? Thief in combat mobility with endless sword/shadowshots mobility is unmatched, compared to few skills that mesmer posses. Even necromancer has wurm/spectral and 2 dashes on harb or charge with a reaper. Where is that great mobility when even necromancer is outpacing you?

Edited by semak.7481
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1 hour ago, semak.7481 said:

Sw3 is not just a teleport, its a conditional clone swap on an enemy(Since you dont seems to know, you are unable to use it without an actual target within a radius of 600 units). By listing kick off abilities that mesmer can have doesnt make it mobile. Idk what you mean by reach and I didnt even ask about it.

Blink is a powerful disangage button when everything goes not according to plan, hardly a throwaway mobility skill (Jaunt is the same, its for combat situations, unless you are super confident it wont affect). 

Imagine if I'd count how many teleports WB has or thief ? Thief in combat mobility with endless sword/shadowshots mobility is unmatched, compared to few skills that mesmer posses. Even necromancer has wurm/spectral and 2 dashes on harb or charge with a reaper. Where is that great mobility when even necromancer is outpacing you?

I'm glad you said that with blink. With Ombras comment, I thought I had misunderstood how blink works somehow. 

Is there any particular case/reason where I'd want Mesmer over Necromancer? It seems they're not good in PvP and very situational/niche in WvW so just trying to understand. If there's a specific PvE role that needs filled okay fine but I'm sure I can just as easily fill a different role with one of the Necro elite specs. Just trying to understand why Mesmer would be a good choice.

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1 hour ago, Matt.1938 said:

I'm glad you said that with blink. With Ombras comment, I thought I had misunderstood how blink works somehow. 

Is there any particular case/reason where I'd want Mesmer over Necromancer? It seems they're not good in PvP and very situational/niche in WvW so just trying to understand. If there's a specific PvE role that needs filled okay fine but I'm sure I can just as easily fill a different role with one of the Necro elite specs. Just trying to understand why Mesmer would be a good choice.

I havent played PvE lately, I cant help you there. Snowcrows used to have prefered group compositions, idk if they still have it. So I'm out of date with PvE. Condi virtuoso is rumored to be easy to play while filling DPS role, tank chrono is filling TANK role and mirage should be perfect for open world. 

I can mostly say about pvp:

Any mesmer spec in pvp... i'd say nerfed to the point I'd not recommend it to anyone, even the best mesmer in the game struggles to play it. Core is irrelevant, chrono is a meme because its lost its identity and given it to other classes and CS is nothing but laughable to have as elite spec mechanic on 90s cd. Mirage is limping with 1 evade (and CMC is laughing and makes fun of mesmer players on streams, thats how sad it is there), virtuoso despite big buffs is bad as well (Espec made with hate towards mesmer - no clones, cast time on shatters, projectiles (reflects/projectile block will disable you),face requirement - thats truly frustrating to play in a competitive environment.
If I would have to choose a stable class to not be afraid for its future I'd pick a guardian or a necromancer. 2 golden childs.

If you like how mesmer plays and love PvE, stick to a mesmer. 

I'm sorry because I cant really answer your question.

Edited by semak.7481
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It seems that it is easily forgotten that blink is usually used to engage and burst. 

Mesmer has poor mobility when comparing to every other profession, including necro and guard that were the least mobile ones(since eod specs), Mirage is kind of okayish if you burn blink, sw ambush and 2 jaunts. 

 

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In pve it has a variety of strong builds in all content.

In wvw mirage and virtuoso is very strong in roaming but not all that necessary in the wvw zerg roles that the game mode is designed around.

In spvp, virtuoso is a very, very strong and hard to kill duelist but its lack of speed and consistent pressure makes it fall under better picks for competitive play.

Edited by Metaologist.2487
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56 minutes ago, Metaologist.2487 said:

 

 

In pve it has a variety of strong builds in all content.

In wvw mirage and virtuoso is very strong in roaming but not all that necessary in the wvw zerg roles that the game mode is designed around.

In spvp, virtuoso is a very, very strong and hard to kill duelist but its lack of speed and consistent pressure makes it fall under better picks for competitive play.

Isn’t Virtuoso a dumbed down spec of Mesmer? No phantasms and such seems to kill the general premise of what made Mesmer a Mesmer unless I’m understanding it completely wrong 

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1 hour ago, Matt.1938 said:

Isn’t Virtuoso a dumbed down spec of Mesmer? No phantasms and such seems to kill the general premise of what made Mesmer a Mesmer unless I’m understanding it completely wrong 

Depends on how you perceive it.

Illusion magic isn't exactly unique, the group that touts mesmer as a unique design is probably not well versed in fantasy rpg elements. Within this game, mesmer is a large problem in every game mode.

 

In pve its defenses is largely buffered by clone generation. AI typically goes for whats closest to them and clones are usually that. Considering the very short lifespan of clones and the ease at which they are generated, mesmers can avoid a lot of damage passively by just attacking. This issue is exacerbated further by mirage and its infinite horizon as now not only clones are more durable through dodging spam but the condition variant of clones contribute significant damage.

In wvw, within the intended design of zerg vs zerg, clones are functionally useless as they are bottom priority for boons and support and are still of the behavior of being the closest to the enemy while also having reduced hp in pvp modes. Thus they are destroyed as quickly as they are made removing any sort of damage role from the mesmer and leaving them for niche utility only. On the roaming side of affairs, mirage is an absolute nightmare for players for reasons I will expand upon in the spvp section coupled with the increased survivability and damage uniquely offered to wvw mirages with the supply of endurance regeneration food, stronger endurance regenerating sigil, higher boon uptime of vigor, and the availability of stat combinations that make condition builds a lot stronger than their spvp counterparts in comparison to power builds.

In spvp. Mesmers have always been a problem for the playerbase based on the fact that they create identical copies of themselves. This puts a heavier tax on other players as opposed to other classes because of the extra stimulus on the brain of the opposing player of all these extra bodies and motions to keep track of.  Mind you vision is the most energy demanding sense of our bodies so much so that our brains naturally block out a lot of visual stimulus because of this reason. Furthermore, mesmer skills produce a lot of piercing sound effects and sound, while not as demanding as vision, is still up their in energy demand for not only humans but for a lot of animals. This in conjution with the visual stimulus spam creates a lot of tax on the brain before you even focus on what the mesmer is even actually doing to respond to. Further mesmer's core defensive and offensive design is to punish counterplay which is textbook bad gamedesign. This occurs in pre changed torment punishing movement, confusion punishing skill usage, stealth punishing anticipation, and burning/bleeding to punish not playing. So you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. To add onto that, mesmers and especially mirages and virtuosos spam distortion, invulnerability, in order to completely ignore game mechanics where even niche skills that work on evading and blocks don't work. All packaged into a class that is not only probably the worst offending game design amalgamation I've ever seen in my life but also, from a medical standpoint, psychologically damaging from both the stimulus overload and the active reinforcement of punishing counterplay. This incombination with the praise that many people give the design of mesmer makes it a very interesting, unethical, and possibly even evil psychological experiment.

 

So virtuoso in particular solves a few problems by removing a lot of the visual stimulus overload by reducing it to phantasms that are easily distinguishable from the player and the core virtuoso skills are far less strenuous on the ears. It still has the punishing counterplay issue and ignoring game mechanics issue but its a step in the right direction.

 

Overall, virtuoso is the healthiest mesmer for the game both gameplaywise, physiologically, and psychologically.  But the whole class is still a game design failure.

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3 hours ago, Metaologist.2487 said:

 

 

In spvp, virtuoso is a very, very strong and hard to kill duelist but its lack of speed and consistent pressure makes it fall under better picks for competitive play.

Tell me you are liar without telling me you are a liar

 

Edited by semak.7481
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I recently returned to Mesmer. I use Virtuoso for solo, Mirage roaming WVW, and Chrono Zerg WVW. It does seem true that other classes are preferred to Mesmer in Zerg WVW. I am enjoying Mesmer right now and is the character I have almost all the storylines completed. 

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11 minutes ago, Jtoon.6907 said:

I recently returned to Mesmer. I use Virtuoso for solo, Mirage roaming WVW, and Chrono Zerg WVW. It does seem true that other classes are preferred to Mesmer in Zerg WVW. I am enjoying Mesmer right now and is the character I have almost all the storylines completed. 

How do you fare in open world groups? I hardly play solo even in open world. I'm always with at least one other person at a time. I'm loving Necro. I also like my ele but didn't take long to realize it's so much more work for less reward in the long run. I know GW2 in general is a pretty alt-friendly game, but I prefer to focus on 2 characters max at a time so just trying to make sure I exhaust all options. If it's based on the open world group comp whether I use mesmer or Necro that's fine too. Just curious how they compare

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2 minutes ago, Matt.1938 said:

How do you fare in open world groups? I hardly play solo even in open world. I'm always with at least one other person at a time. I'm loving Necro. I also like my ele but didn't take long to realize it's so much more work for less reward in the long run. I know GW2 in general is a pretty alt-friendly game, but I prefer to focus on 2 characters max at a time so just trying to make sure I exhaust all options. If it's based on the open world group comp whether I use mesmer or Necro that's fine too. Just curious how they compare

Mesmer is a good complement to any group. I often find Virtuoso having many tools for defense to survive while the damage is great and I play more power. While I am sure necro would be more stress free play than Mesmer. If you were bigger group in open world you may want to go Chrono which Chrono can do well as a tank.  

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57 minutes ago, Jtoon.6907 said:

Mesmer is a good complement to any group. I often find Virtuoso having many tools for defense to survive while the damage is great and I play more power. While I am sure necro would be more stress free play than Mesmer. If you were bigger group in open world you may want to go Chrono which Chrono can do well as a tank.  

Yeah unless I'm doing an event, HP train, etc then I'm usually in a smaller group usually 3-4 max. I just like viability. Like I feel with necro I can swap between specs in open world and honestly be fine with any of the 3. Is mesmer the same way? Chrono in a smaller group feels less impactful. Just curious if Virtuoso is the only good option in a small group.

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3 hours ago, Matt.1938 said:

Yeah unless I'm doing an event, HP train, etc then I'm usually in a smaller group usually 3-4 max. I just like viability. Like I feel with necro I can swap between specs in open world and honestly be fine with any of the 3. Is mesmer the same way? Chrono in a smaller group feels less impactful. Just curious if Virtuoso is the only good option in a small group.

As a mesmer main (with my 2 alts being HB and Necro),  i find the pros and cons with each.

 

Thematically, Mesmer skills are beautiful.  The sound of crashing glass, with their skills cant be beat.

 

When it comes to group viability--it depends on the environment.

 

Spvp = Chrono is meh, Mirage is meh, and Virtuoso is garbage.  Necro has much better solo/group support.

 

Open world PvE, any of the lines will work--some to a greater degree.  My  mirage with prenerf Torment runes was the best solo class Ive  played--too bad that is gone.  Necro even more options.

 

End game PvE (Fractals/Strikes/Raids) You'll get more viability from Necro; if you can play to each classes greatest potential for their repsective trail roles.  Raids and CM Strikes, were commanders watch DPS & boon meters will call out ppl that are not up to the standard potential of the roles, of the class you choose to play.

 

I've not seen a commnader in any raid/CM Strike or speed clear fractal in the last 6+ months ask for a Chrono.  I've only seen a condi mirage being asked a handful of times for the few raid wing bosses where confusion dps is king.  I've NEVER seen a group, specifically ask for a Virtuoso (power/condi) when looking for a dps class.  And as someone that mains Virtuoso now, there is nothing a Virtuoso can do, that another dps cant.  Condi Willbenders, Harbringers, Specters, etc are equal/better.

 

If it wasent for the theme/looks/sound animations of my mesmer, I'd stick with my necro--both are easy to play.

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20 hours ago, Metaologist.2487 said:

Depends on how you perceive it.

Illusion magic isn't exactly unique, the group that touts mesmer as a unique design is probably not well versed in fantasy rpg elements. Within this game, mesmer is a large problem in every game mode.

 

In pve its defenses is largely buffered by clone generation. AI typically goes for whats closest to them and clones are usually that. Considering the very short lifespan of clones and the ease at which they are generated, mesmers can avoid a lot of damage passively by just attacking. This issue is exacerbated further by mirage and its infinite horizon as now not only clones are more durable through dodging spam but the condition variant of clones contribute significant damage.

In wvw, within the intended design of zerg vs zerg, clones are functionally useless as they are bottom priority for boons and support and are still of the behavior of being the closest to the enemy while also having reduced hp in pvp modes. Thus they are destroyed as quickly as they are made removing any sort of damage role from the mesmer and leaving them for niche utility only. On the roaming side of affairs, mirage is an absolute nightmare for players for reasons I will expand upon in the spvp section coupled with the increased survivability and damage uniquely offered to wvw mirages with the supply of endurance regeneration food, stronger endurance regenerating sigil, higher boon uptime of vigor, and the availability of stat combinations that make condition builds a lot stronger than their spvp counterparts in comparison to power builds.

In spvp. Mesmers have always been a problem for the playerbase based on the fact that they create identical copies of themselves. This puts a heavier tax on other players as opposed to other classes because of the extra stimulus on the brain of the opposing player of all these extra bodies and motions to keep track of.  Mind you vision is the most energy demanding sense of our bodies so much so that our brains naturally block out a lot of visual stimulus because of this reason. Furthermore, mesmer skills produce a lot of piercing sound effects and sound, while not as demanding as vision, is still up their in energy demand for not only humans but for a lot of animals. This in conjution with the visual stimulus spam creates a lot of tax on the brain before you even focus on what the mesmer is even actually doing to respond to. Further mesmer's core defensive and offensive design is to punish counterplay which is textbook bad gamedesign. This occurs in pre changed torment punishing movement, confusion punishing skill usage, stealth punishing anticipation, and burning/bleeding to punish not playing. So you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. To add onto that, mesmers and especially mirages and virtuosos spam distortion, invulnerability, in order to completely ignore game mechanics where even niche skills that work on evading and blocks don't work. All packaged into a class that is not only probably the worst offending game design amalgamation I've ever seen in my life but also, from a medical standpoint, psychologically damaging from both the stimulus overload and the active reinforcement of punishing counterplay. This incombination with the praise that many people give the design of mesmer makes it a very interesting, unethical, and possibly even evil psychological experiment.

 

So virtuoso in particular solves a few problems by removing a lot of the visual stimulus overload by reducing it to phantasms that are easily distinguishable from the player and the core virtuoso skills are far less strenuous on the ears. It still has the punishing counterplay issue and ignoring game mechanics issue but its a step in the right direction.

 

Overall, virtuoso is the healthiest mesmer for the game both gameplaywise, physiologically, and psychologically.  But the whole class is still a game design failure.

 if you describe mesmer this way it actually comes relativly close to gw1 mesmer. there it was more of a assasin-style caster that killed you with hexes when you didn't pay attention and could punish you in a multitude of different ways: not playing(wastrel's), attacking and casting(empathy/backfire distrust) snares and energydrain and shutting down your skills or even stealing them. I wouldn't call it cheating the game since the gw1 counterpart also was extremly strong with additional recharge speed in pve and faster casting in pvp. it is also the class that has/had the most armor ignoring dmg in the game followed by necro, monk and ritualist.

 

As for me I hardly play strikes with mesmer and mostly play them with a different class. I think virtuoso is a step back to the roots, but is also a downgrade from its form. To some degree it seems like assa became mesmer in gw2 while mesmer became thief gameplaywise.

 

for open world mirage seems to be the most ideal spec since you got the  highest amounts of skills with you(I try to go for specs with the most options so from hot to eod the number of extraskills you carry with you are 6 - 9 - 7(weapon skills+ mechanic)). think virtuoso is for ppl that dislike clones and go for strikes etc. where losing clones can reduce your dmg. mirage is better for open world as you even get alacrity for yourself(staff ambush) to reduce the recharge of your mirror creating skills. I personally run a perplexity mirage, but wanted to change to trailblazer+tempest runes for a pure condi build. at the same time it is hard to avoid getting rune of tormenting in case I want a hybrid virtuoso. Jaunt is one of the best elite skills the mesmer has access to tho. very small recharge time, tp and condi dmg. 

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1 hour ago, pninak.1069 said:

for open world mirage seems to be the most ideal spec since you got the  highest amounts of skills with you(I try to go for specs with the most options so from hot to eod the number of extraskills you carry with you are 6 - 9 - 7(weapon skills+ mechanic)). think virtuoso is for ppl that dislike clones and go for strikes etc. where losing clones can reduce your dmg. mirage is better for open world as you even get alacrity for yourself(staff ambush) to reduce the recharge of your mirror creating skills. I personally run a perplexity mirage, but wanted to change to trailblazer+tempest runes for a pure condi build. at the same time it is hard to avoid getting rune of tormenting in case I want a hybrid virtuoso. Jaunt is one of the best elite skills the mesmer has access to tho. very small recharge time, tp and condi dmg. 

That was going to be my next question, so thank you. I'll run a staff condi and give that a shot

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1 hour ago, pninak.1069 said:

 if you describe mesmer this way it actually comes relativly close to gw1 mesmer. there it was more of a assasin-style caster that killed you with hexes when you didn't pay attention and could punish you in a multitude of different ways: not playing(wastrel's), attacking and casting(empathy/backfire distrust) snares and energydrain and shutting down your skills or even stealing them. I wouldn't call it cheating the game since the gw1 counterpart also was extremly strong with additional recharge speed in pve and faster casting in pvp. it is also the class that has/had the most armor ignoring dmg in the game followed by necro, monk and ritualist.

 

As for me I hardly play strikes with mesmer and mostly play them with a different class. I think virtuoso is a step back to the roots, but is also a downgrade from its form. To some degree it seems like assa became mesmer in gw2 while mesmer became thief gameplaywise.

 

for open world mirage seems to be the most ideal spec since you got the  highest amounts of skills with you(I try to go for specs with the most options so from hot to eod the number of extraskills you carry with you are 6 - 9 - 7(weapon skills+ mechanic)). think virtuoso is for ppl that dislike clones and go for strikes etc. where losing clones can reduce your dmg. mirage is better for open world as you even get alacrity for yourself(staff ambush) to reduce the recharge of your mirror creating skills. I personally run a perplexity mirage, but wanted to change to trailblazer+tempest runes for a pure condi build. at the same time it is hard to avoid getting rune of tormenting in case I want a hybrid virtuoso. Jaunt is one of the best elite skills the mesmer has access to tho. very small recharge time, tp and condi dmg. 

Gw2 mesmer is nothing like GW1 counterpart. 

GW1 mesmer in this game would make the forums explode with qq. 

Never played any profession like GW1 mesmer in any other game, the most similar thing that comes to mind is blue counterspell deck in MtG. 

 

Regarding the thread can only speak pvp/wvw wise, mesmer and all elite specs are so op like omg SS tier... Oh wait they're all garbage, the better one is mirage and is like b tier. 

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2 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Gw2 mesmer is nothing like GW1 counterpart. 

GW1 mesmer in this game would make the forums explode with qq. 

Never played any profession like GW1 mesmer in any other game, the most similar thing that comes to mind is blue counterspell deck in MtG. 

 

Regarding the thread can only speak pvp/wvw wise, mesmer and all elite specs are so op like omg SS tier... Oh wait they're all garbage, the better one is mirage and is like b tier. 

 ofc it would be. but at the same time we both know how long it took to even see the potential behind the class. it is just after gw2 launched that mesmer was really getting the right spot how broken they really are.  I always wanted an espec that had no clones ad worked more like gw1, but virtuoso misses the mark. I love gw1 mesmer, but was surprised when I first played it how unfavored it was despite all the sick buffs it has already.

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On 5/17/2022 at 5:05 PM, otto.5684 said:

 In spvp it is currently the worst performing class right before warrior.

You are very wrong. Bladesworn is literally broken. 

Dragonslash has literally no counters (it breaks every rule), it has insane range ,ignores stealth - because it tracks, it ignores blinds and blocks (unblockable) and does up to 9k damage (on light armor for sure), you cant stun him because each time they use it they have stability because instead of listed PvP cooldown listed it doesnt have any at all. Stupid amount of sustain and evades and access to might (might - evades, just in case you wonder why I mention it) with shouts and elite that recharge all ammo skills which includes gunsaber itself, while being able to kill zerk light armored class with just 2 ranged gunsaber skills with ~7 might stacks (Helseth video).

Being worst of the worst =/= not being represented in every mAT because there are even more broken classes that gets no attention (guardian/necromancer).

The best mesmer in the game to be rolled over in 1x2 by bladesworn (claimed to be worst class) and then your reinforement in the face of herald being killed right after you. What other mesmer players that clearly less skillful than this monster should be doing when not even 1 mesmer spec is able to kill worst of the worst class which is being operated by just a random person.

Why ppl here are so ignorant? Consider this to be the main reason why forum opinions are ignored entirely.

 

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8 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

You are very wrong. Bladesworn is literally broken. 

Dragonslash has literally no counters (it breaks every rule), it has insane range ,ignores stealth - because it tracks, it ignores blinds and blocks (unblockable) and does up to 9k damage (on light armor for sure), you cant stun him because each time they use it they have stability because instead of listed PvP cooldown listed it doesnt have any at all. Stupid amount of sustain and evades and access to might (might - evades, just in case you wonder why I mention it) with shouts and elite that recharge all ammo skills which includes gunsaber itself, while being able to kill zerk light armored class with just 2 ranged gunsaber skills with ~7 might stacks (Helseth video).

Being worst of the worst =/= not being represented in every mAT because there are even more broken classes that gets no attention (guardian/necromancer).

The best mesmer in the game to be rolled over in 1x2 by bladesworn (claimed to be worst class) and then your reinforement in the face of herald being killed right after you. What other mesmer players that clearly less skillful than this monster should be doing when not even 1 mesmer spec is able to kill worst of the worst class which is being operated by just a random person.

Why ppl here are so ignorant? Consider this to be the main reason why forum opinions are ignored entirely.

 

Thank you for this. Finally someone understands the true value of a skill that.

1. Tracks Stealth

2. Ignores Blind

3. Ignores Blocks

4. Stuns

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11 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Thank you for this. Finally someone understands the true value of a skill that.

1. Tracks Stealth

2. Ignores Blind

3. Ignores Blocks

4. Stuns

+

5.Gives stab.

6.Drops tons of damage while doing so

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On 5/19/2022 at 9:43 AM, semak.7481 said:

You are very wrong. Bladesworn is literally broken. 

Dragonslash has literally no counters (it breaks every rule), it has insane range ,ignores stealth - because it tracks, it ignores blinds and blocks (unblockable) and does up to 9k damage (on light armor for sure), you cant stun him because each time they use it they have stability because instead of listed PvP cooldown listed it doesnt have any at all. Stupid amount of sustain and evades and access to might (might - evades, just in case you wonder why I mention it) with shouts and elite that recharge all ammo skills which includes gunsaber itself, while being able to kill zerk light armored class with just 2 ranged gunsaber skills with ~7 might stacks (Helseth video).

Being worst of the worst =/= not being represented in every mAT because there are even more broken classes that gets no attention (guardian/necromancer).

The best mesmer in the game to be rolled over in 1x2 by bladesworn (claimed to be worst class) and then your reinforement in the face of herald being killed right after you. What other mesmer players that clearly less skillful than this monster should be doing when not even 1 mesmer spec is able to kill worst of the worst class which is being operated by just a random person.

Why ppl here are so ignorant? Consider this to be the main reason why forum opinions are ignored entirely.

 

I agree with 99%. However you are wrong about one thing and that is it having no counters.

Mirage Cloak counters everything.

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