Elite specs needs to be rotated

[Radiobiology.6185]

It's obviously going to be very difficult to have a healthy and balanced 5v5 pvp mode with this many elements to take into consideration when creating balance patches. It has gotten worse with time and it will keep getting worse, a new expansion is already in the works, probably with new elite specs and who knows, maybe a whole new class.

I think elite specializations should be rotated in some way, maybe seasonally. We could have a rotated mode and a non rotated mode where everything is available, so that people who wants to play something very specific can do so if they please.

[Sahne.6950]

what? how is that going to fix anything?

imagine you are maining something.....   I AM SORRY! YOU CAN NOT PLAY YOUR MAIN CHARACTER! BETTER LUCK NEXT MONTH.  but... you could play the unrotated mode..... now with 50% more Queutimes!!! because we split the queues even more! Great idea! more of that please! /s

ohh you want to play support? i am sorry! this week Core guardian and Tempest are disabled!

this just doesnt make sense on so many levels.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

They tried stuff like this in GW1. It was called the CODEX arena.

It was empty and no one ever played it.

Going a bit further with your idea, I'd vote for the exact opposite and say that we should be able to switch gear/build templates while in matches any time we are OOC. That would make things much more interesting.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

Why so many confused emojis on Trevors post?

 

Codex arena was basically like this and it was empty and the most hated game mode. it was a massive failure and people who played gw1 know exactly what “limiting” the game mode does to the game.

[Sahne.6950]

4 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Why so many confused emojis on Trevors post?

 

.

because he suggested that you can just change your build while being OOC.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

7 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

because he suggested that you can just change your build while being OOC.

And? 
 

If your opponent can change builds, then so can you. Nothing confusing about that.

Edited June 13, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Sahne.6950]

6 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

And? 
 

If your opponent can change builds, then so can you. Nothing confusing about that.

this would essentialy create the biggest Rock-Paper-Scissor game ever seen. Suddenly you have to swap builds when running from node A to B because you are goingt to face other people there. Countering people is CRAZY effective, and the new meta would completly evolve around having a shitton of buildtemplates for fighting every specific profession. HELLA LAME! You will be ineffective if you dont do it... AKA you will spend 50% of the round swapping your builds.

Buildtemplates can be bought with Gems and that would literally be p2w. Some people will have alot of them.. some people just have the 2 normal ones.... some people will have buildtemplates saved as [Codes/Hotkeys] so they can swap fast... it can be abused SO MUCH... People will simply not be on equal footing anymore.

just no! being able to switch your profession at the begining of the round was already ironed out to be problematic... and you want to give people the power to swap MIDGAME.... NOPE NOPE NOPE.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

6 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Buildtemplates can be bought with Gems and that would literally be p2w.

Then that essentially guarantees that his suggestion would never happen. Big whoop. Nobody was expecting that to happen in the first place.

 

So what is it again that people are so confused about here? Or is it that folks use the emoji as a “dislike button” for ideas you don’t like?

 

Whats wrong with you people. Just say you don’t like x idea for x reason instead of throwing confused emojis at it. misusing confused emoji’s literally adds nothing to the discussion.

Edited June 13, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Sahne.6950]

1 minute ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Or is it that folks use the emoji as a “dislike button” for ideas you don’t like?

oh you did not understand this already?  "Confused" is the dislike button^^

there is nothing to add to the discussion... they dont like the idea, they think the person is confused, as he cleary has not thought out his suggestion in the slightest.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Terrorhuz.4695]

> me, trying to just play the game while some forum ranger won't stop trying to rotate me

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

oh you did not understand this already?  "Confused" is the dislike button^^

 

No it’s not, let me correct you. Only spiteful Oompa Loompas use it as a dislike button. Just like how the Oompa Loompas think making a hashtag on twitter trend…somehow makes you right and does something useful for society.

Edited June 13, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Tycura.1982]

This game that's built around various classes with various builds and various choices would definitely be better off if we took away all that. 10head 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

If you want a primer of how this will work,  think about how frustrated players get when their class of choice doesn't work in the meta, then extend that frustration to everyone. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

this would essentialy create the biggest Rock-Paper-Scissor game ever seen

This game is already rock paper scissors.

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Suddenly you have to swap builds when running from node A to B because you are goingt to face other people there.

Yeah that's the point. This game is 10 years old, we aren't getting any updates to pvp, we need something new something deeper, for the veteran player base who are essentially the ones keeping this game mode alive.

There is a certain balancing factor to being able to swap templates, which you probably wouldn't understand as we've gone over this before and you are relatively new to the scene. But you've got to understand that in say 2v2 or 3v3 arenas, there are certain match ups that if you weren't able to swap or adjust build, if you lost round 1 you'd lose all 3 rounds because the opponents are setup to counter you. Being able to swap templates alows teams a fair chance to adjust to each other if not create counter situations. This would work the same way in conquest if say a Power Ranger was able to swap to Condi Ranger when approaching a side that had a Mechanist on it. And if the Mechanist were smart, he could swap to a Prot Holo or something like that if he possessed enough mastery to play several builds.

Ultimately, being able to swap templates while OOC would create a much more cerebral game of decision making, which we need now that traditional job roles are vanishing and everything is becoming this hybrid Roamer/Team Fighter/Side Noder packed into one job role. The game is just becoming zergy like a death match while traditional rotational strategy is taking a backseat to general combat prowess. Being able to swap templates while OOC would also create a larger margin of disparity between which players are very experienced and which players are not, which the game also needs. People tire of being an old Warrior main as example, who can play half a dozen builds on War, but it doesn't matter in the face of some kid on a Harb who only plays that one build on Harb. If an old War main could toggle builds before approaching you on a node, he would be dangerous as War is one of the most versatile classes for designing counter build structures.

At any rate, you shouldn't blind click confused faces on things after a shallow 2-second thought or rather emotional response without thought, that "hey I don't like this idea!" Stop and consider the full ante of mechanics involved in such suggestions as this and the full cause & effect. If you know enough about the game that is, to be able to judge such a thing.

We want Arenanet to add more to the game, not ignore it or remove more things. So be careful what you wish for with being negative towards 100% of this community's suggestions. You just may find that Arenanet is more than willing to indulge the idea that this community doesn't want anything at all.

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Buildtemplates can be bought with Gems and that would literally be p2w. Some people will have alot of them.. some people just have the 2 normal ones.... some people will have buildtemplates saved as [Codes/Hotkeys] so they can swap fast... it can be abused SO MUCH... People will simply not be on equal footing anymore.

1. The game is already pay to win. When an expansion releases and your Harbingers & Willblenders show up, if you didn't buy that expansion, you don't get to play those classes. Just in general having all the expansions also means you have access to more options for counter play. Players who only have the core game or just a f2p account as example, are in no way in equal footing with players who own all the expansions.
2. Gems are obtainable with in-game gold. You don't need to spend any USD to get gems to unlock template panels.
3. Do you have any idea how easy it is to set your gear/build template swaps to say "Ctrl/Shift + 1, and Ctrol/Alt +1"? Using the idea that "some people would use hotkeys to swap fast which is unfair" is the most ignorant if not apathic excuse defense I've seen posted in this forum in a very very long time. If you can't figure out how to swap your gear/buld templates with hotkeys, that's your own fault. If anything were ever a l2p issue it was that.

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

just no! being able to switch your profession at the begining of the round was already ironed out to be problematic...

Do you even play Guild Wars 2 pvp?

Anyone who played Guild Wars 2 pvp would recognize that being able to adjust your team comp pre-match is like the great saving grace of any relevant match balance that still exists.

8 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

there is nothing to add to the discussion... they dont like the idea, they think the person is confused, as he cleary has not thought out his suggestion in the slightest.

I am not confused about anything with my suggestion. I've been advocating this change for about 3 years now. I have well thought out the reasoning for, and the full probable cause & effect of how it would effect the game's dynamic. It is something that I would enjoy.

Heads up, sometimes it's better to just say "I disagree" and leave it at that, rather than throwing out a bunch of statements that kind of reveals that you probably have less than 1000 games played in Guild Wars 2 pvp.

 

8 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

So what is it again that people are so confused about here? Or is it that folks use the emoji as a “dislike button” for ideas you don’t like?

That's exactly what it is. It gets used as a dislike button.

They may as well have just made it a big thumbs down icon.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[otto.5684]

Ya. Less build diversity is what the game needs 😑

[Infinity.2876]

I would like to be able to change traits but not character upon respawn. This would be similar to changing weapons on an ele or engi. You could build for more condi cleanse or reveals

 

changing characters would be nice but only if you could do it without seeing the other team

This would mean you could optimize your amount of supports, condition damage, power damage, and cc your team has so you're balanced.

[Sahne.6950]

11 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

At any rate, you shouldn't blind click confused faces on things after a shallow 2-second thought or rather emotional response without thought, that "hey I don't like this idea!" Stop and consider the full ante of mechanics involved in such suggestions as this and the full cause & effect. If you know enough about the game that is, to be able to judge such a thing.

We want Arenanet to add more to the game, not ignore it or remove more things. So be careful what you wish for with being negative towards 100% of this community's suggestions

first of all... i have NOT voted anything on you posts...LOOK! i am the crying emoji now, i put it on both of your post just so you can see. Those "confused" were actually other people who did not like your idea, and i can only guess because of the reasons that i pointed out. I am negative towards all ideas? buddy i am discussing it with you and pointing out flaws... i am not against all change, neither have i said anything like that.  I have no clue why you went so defensive in your post and even claimed i have no experience in pvp... no clue what is happening here. I disagreed with your idea, and i wrote to you about it and tried todiscuss it with you. Yet you are acting like a child, claiming that i blindly harrass your glorious idea with spamming "confused" when in reality i did not vote anything. what is going on here? why do you have to repeatadly tell me i have no clue about the game? you are acting very childish/rude/unreasonable and the best thing is.... YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONGxD i have NOT even voted anything! 😂 that is others that also think your idea is bad!

11 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

There is a certain balancing factor to being able to swap templates, which you probably wouldn't understand as we've gone over this before and you are relatively new to the scene. But you've got to understand that in say 2v2 or 3v3 arenas, there are certain match ups that if you weren't able to swap or adjust build, if you lost round 1 you'd lose all 3 rounds because the opponents are setup to counter you. Being able to swap templates alows teams a fair chance to adjust to each other if not create counter situations.

being able to switch between rounds is completly diffrent. Even being able to switch on death would be a completly diffrent topic  and we could discuss that. You however suggested that you can literally switch when being OOC for a few seconds. which is just outright bad. because to be competetive you will be swapping builds between every engagement. and i do NOT want to spend 50% of my game in my build template. It would lead to severe imbalances, as some profession can adept exceptionally well to situations, while other just have this one build and all other traits just outright succ. I simply dont like the idea and i told you so... yet you are hurt and insulting me.

11 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

The game is already pay to win. When an expansion releases and your Harbingers & Willblenders show up, if you didn't buy that expansion, you don't get to play those classes.

that is NOT pay 2 win. That is called Buy 2 Play with kitten balance. The message is the same... pay 30 bucks to win. But per definition that is NOT pay 2 win.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

16 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

> me, trying to just play the game while some forum ranger won't stop trying to rotate me

 

you sir, always make my day! ❤️

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

27 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

even claimed i have no experience in pvp

It's not a claim. It's something that is obvious just by clicking your forum profile and reading through some of the statements & stances you take. Check this out for example:

27 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

You however suggested that you can literally switch when being OOC for a few seconds. which is just outright bad i guess. because to be competetive you will be swapping builds between every engagement. and i do NOT want to spend 50% of my game in my build template. It would lead to severe imbalances, as some profession can adept exceptionally well to situations, while other just have this one build and all other traits just outright succ.

1. Clearly you've never joined a custom arena where it actually does allow you to swap templates when you're OOC. This isn't anything new. Read the options to toggle this on here Custom Arena - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W). Clearly you've never played an inhouse or scrim where this option is actually on and you are allowed to do this. It makes things way more interesting and way more fun. You should actually try it before arguing about something you have no experience play testing. This isn't theory craft. This is actually something you can go in game and do. My suggestion was simply to enable this option for unranked/ranked/AT queues. Go try it. It really is more fun and strangely enough more balanced than being locked into only one build or job role.
2. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about right now. You're crying about something that you have 0% experience with. Saying "I don't want to spend 50% of my game in my build template!!" is hooh-ha. First of all it takes 1s to push two hotkeys to swap a gear & build on. Second of all, there aren't really that many times in a match where you are OOC to begin with and that it is advantageous to swap builds without it possibly being a bad decision to do that will punish you later if you can't OOC to re-swap the build. A good example would be a Tempest Support who tries to snag a fast back-cap at his home node before heading back to the team fight. When he rotates to the home node to decap it, he sees an enemy pushing the node. He has to make a decision, swap to Fire Weaver to better 1v1 on the node so he can ensure success on the node, or stay on Tempest Support because he knows it is likely that once he enters combat, he may not be able to OOC for quite some time if the team fight falls back to him on the home node, and then he's stuck on Fire Weaver and can't support, making his team fight much weaker. If you had any experience playing any matches like this, you would realize the decision making to swap a build isn't so light of a decision to make. One could say it was high risk high reward. This is definitely a good way to define it because every class in the game really only has 1 build that ultimately works the best during any given patching, and trying to swap to benefit a counter build in a particular situation is very risky if you end up locked in combat and can't swap off of it.
3. You said allowing this would result in great imbalances. Please explain to us what kind of imbalances would occur. Give us a real explanation. I want to hear this.

27 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

9 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

The game is already pay to win. When an expansion releases and your Harbingers & Willblenders show up, if you didn't buy that expansion, you don't get to play those classes.

that is NOT pay 2 win. That is called Buy 2 Play with kitten balance. The message is the same... pay 30 bucks to win. But per definition that is NOT pay 2 win.

Yeah ok.

Perception is indeed everything.

Look at, believe it, however you want, as long as it allows you to believe you won the argument.

Good job man.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Crab Fear.8623]

18 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

because he suggested that you can just change your build while being OOC.

But the option would be available to everyone....

[Sahne.6950]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's not a claim. It's something that is obvious just by clicking your forum profile and reading through some of statements & stances you take. Check this out for example:

1. Clearly you've never joined a custom arena where it actually does allow you to swap templates when you're OOC. This isn't anything new. Read the options to toggle this on here Custom Arena - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W). Clearly you've never played an inhouse or scrim where this option is actually on and you are allowed to do this. It makes things way more interesting and way more fun. You should actually try it before arguing about something you have no experience play testing. This isn't theory craft. This is actually something you can go in game and do. My suggestion was simply to enable this option for unranked/ranked/AT queues. Go try it. It really is more fun and strangely enough more balanced than being locked into only one build or job role.
2. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about right now. You're crying about something that you have 0% experience with. Saying "I don't want to spend 50% of my game in my build template!!" is hooh-ha. First of all it takes 1s to push two hotkeys to swap a gear & build on. Second of all, there aren't really that many times in a match where you are OOC to begin with and that it is advantageous to swap builds without it possibly being a bad decision to do that will punish you later if you can't OOC to re-swap the build. A good example would be a Tempest Support who tries to snag a fast back-cap at his home node before heading back to the team fight. When he rotates to the home node to decap it, he sees an enemy pushing the node. He has to make a decision, swap to Fire Weaver to better 1v1 on the node so he can ensure success on the node, or stay on Tempest Support because he knows it is likely that once he enters combat, he may not be able to OOC for quite some time if the team fight falls back to him on the home node, and then he's stuck on Fire Weaver and can't support, making his team fight much weaker. If you had any experience playing any matches like this, you would realize the decision making to swap a build isn't so light of a decision to make. One could say it was high risk high reward. This is definitely a good way to define it because every class in the game really only has 1 build that ultimately works the best during any given patching, and trying to swap to benefit a counter build in a particular situation is very risky if you end up locked in combat and can't swap off of it.
3. You said allowing this would result in great imbalances. Please explain to us what kind of imbalances would occur. Give us a real explanation. I want to hear this.

Yeah ok.

Perception is indeed everything.

Look at, believe it, however you want, as long as it allows you to believe you won the argument.

Good job man.

i am not here to win any arguments....

i am here to tell you that i do not like your idea.  It requires multiple buildtemplates, which would give a advantage to people that bought those with gems, or it requires thirdparty programs/hotkeys whatever.

I just dont like the idea. no need to insult me and tell me i have no clue. you are just being rude at this point. You have to accept that some people dont like your ideas.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You said allowing this would result in great imbalances. Please explain to us what kind of imbalances would occur. Give us a real explanation. I want to hear this.

first of all... lets shift 2 gears down okay? i do not want to argue with you. i want to discuss. no need to be emotional or defensive.

thru repeated nerfing of overperforming traits/utilityskill, some profession are pigeonholed into what they are currently running. there is very little room for change or adapting to certain situations. While other classes have a broader spectrum of viable utilityskills, traits and even builds. Some classes can adept really well like elementalist, while others can not so much, lets say warrior.

You can completly turn your elementalist around midgame. from Fireweaver for sidenoding to Freshairweaver for +1ing and then quickly become a tempestaurashare for the midfight... you will always have the perfect build for the situation

meanwhile warrior: uhhhmmm i could maybe slot a cleanse more or.....maybe a stunbreak?... but thats it.... 

some profession can adept exceptionally well and others simply just have this one or 2 viable builds sadly.

I just dont like your idea, because of the reasons i already stated, and thats okay. Not everyone has to like your ideas. Just saying "You have no clue what you are talking about" simply because someone doesnt share your opinion is rude and i hope you understand that and stray away from the behaviour in the future.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

28 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i am here to tell you that i do not like your idea.

And that's all you had to say instead of overextending and trying to argue about something you know nothing about.

28 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

It requires multiple buildtemplates, which would give a advantage to people the bought gems, or it requires thirdparty programs/hotkeys whatever.

You can obtain gems to unlock templates with in-game gold. No USD required.

You believe that third party programs are required to quickly switch your build template. This is what I'm talking about my dude. This is why people read your posts and can clearly see that you lack even basic understanding on the topics you attempt to engage.

28 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

no need to insult me and tell me i have no clue. you are just being rude at this point

This isn't an insult. This is me pointing out misinformation. This is what people do in forums, they point out misinformation. If you feel insulted when people point out your misinformation, then stop posting misinformation.

What did you think was going to happen? That no one would call you out on your bologna? Of course someone is going to call you out on your bologna when you're directing misinformation at their posts.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sahne.6950]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You believe that third party programs are required to quickly switch your build template.

There is a addon that swaps your build with the press of a button....  apparently you did not know... but keep on insulting me and telling me i have no clue!  yeah! ❤️

You sir are rude and cant deal with criticism or people not sharing your opinion. Your only resort is to insult. i told you what i think and why i think that. and everything your saying is: "you have no clue" when in reality it appears that you have not thought out every consequenze of your idea.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

25 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

thru repeated nerfing of overperforming traits/utilityskill, some profession are pigeonholed into what they are currently running. there is very little room for change or adapting to certain situations. While other classes have a broader spectrum of viable utilityskills, traits and even builds. Some classes can adept really well like elementalist, while others can not so much, lets say warrior.

You can completly turn your elementalist around midgame. from Fireweaver for sidenoding to Freshairweaver for +1ing and then quickly become a tempestaurashare for the midfight... you will always have the perfect build for the situation

meanwhile warrior: uhhhmmm i could maybe slot a cleanse more or something... but thats it....

This is again what I"m talking about. You have absolutely no clue what you're saying at all.

You just coined Warrior as "a class that isn't adaptable". If you had any idea what you were talking about at all, you'd realize that Warrior is still amongst the top 3 1v1 classes and the only reason why is because it actually is debatably the most versatile & adaptable class in the game for creating counters.

Then you turn around and use Ele as contrast saying that it is adaptable, when Ele is no where near as adaptable as Warrior. Ele is actually incredibly hard locked into the use of certain things or it quickly becomes not viable at all.