Can we make GS 5 a moving skill?

[SkinnyT.5382]

Something that never made the most sense for me was the distance of the Great Sword skill 5, Illusionary Wave. I get it's propose, which is to get enemies off of you. But when the weapon has a max range of 1200, and you do more damage the further you are from your target, it doesn't make sense to have 1 skill in your bar that's less than half your total range.
I suggest that the skill changes so that it keeps the Knockback for the initial 450 range but then then turns into a moving wave that just does damage for the remaining range.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

GS is a mess, it's supposed to be a ranged weapon but it's better to use in melee due to how gs2 works and the thing you talked. 

Agree with your suggestion and change gs2 bounce range too while you're at it. 

[Waffles.5632]

3 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

GS is a mess, it's supposed to be a ranged weapon but it's better to use in melee due to how gs2 works and the thing you talked. 

Agree with your suggestion and change gs2 bounce range too while you're at it. 

I agree as well and also second OP's change. I love that idea.

 

[Justine.6351]

9 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

GS is a mess, it's supposed to be a ranged weapon but it's better to use in melee due to how gs2 works and the thing you talked. 

Agree with your suggestion and change gs2 bounce range too while you're at it. 

Pressure at range, burst at melee. Functions just fine.

[Ombras.2853]

I like everything bar skill 2. If it worked ranged as well, I wouldn’t complain about anything else on GS. Skill 5 is absolutely fine the way it is, it’s a push to ensure you get distanced from the opponent. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

7 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

Pressure at range, burst at melee. Functions just fine.

Functions especially well with Virt! A ranged spec that needs to get melee to burst. 

[SkinnyT.5382]

2 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

I like everything bar skill 2. If it worked ranged as well, I wouldn’t complain about anything else on GS. Skill 5 is absolutely fine the way it is, it’s a push to ensure you get distanced from the opponent. 

Yes but the skill is only useful if they are within that 450 range. So if you are at max distance, you basically are down  a skill. Having to move towards a boss or a WvW mob just to use it doesn't make sense which is why I suggested keeping it's function, and just adding the projectile wave so that even if you don't get the CC at a long distance you still would get an aoe. Ultimately, in my opinion, making it a more well rounded/functional weapon.

[Justine.6351]

On 6/20/2022 at 6:45 AM, SkinnyT.5382 said:

Yes but the skill is only useful if they are within that 450 range. So if you are at max distance, you basically are down  a skill. Having to move towards a boss or a WvW mob just to use it doesn't make sense which is why I suggested keeping it's function, and just adding the projectile wave so that even if you don't get the CC at a long distance you still would get an aoe. Ultimately, in my opinion, making it a more well rounded/functional weapon.

I think people generally want the classes to be less button smashing and more critical thinking.

[Ombras.2853]

I also don’t understand the “it HAS to do something even if it’s not the thing it is meant to do”. Mesmer has a lot of problems, okay, you don’t solve them by making yourself press more skills at random. GS 5 is a push, and it’s perfectly fine as a push. Just made the darn GS 2 a ranged option, cuz the only issue with Greatsword is that one.

[SkinnyT.5382]

8 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

I think people generally want the classes to be less button smashing and more critical thinking.

Having a skill with multiple functions doesn't impede ones ability to use critical thinking.

 

8 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

I also don’t understand the “it HAS to do something even if it’s not the thing it is meant to do”. Mesmer has a lot of problems, okay, you don’t solve them by making yourself press more skills at random. GS 5 is a push, and it’s perfectly fine as a push. Just made the darn GS 2 a ranged option, cuz the only issue with Greatsword is that one.

Y'all I swear... You say GS5 is "perfectly fine" as a close range push, but then in the same post fail to apply that same logic to the GS2, which  one could argue is "perfectly fine" as a short range burst. The cherry picking is next level.

Bottom line is that the GS is a long range weapon that sits at 1200 range, therefore it is only logical to have all it's skills function at that 1200 range. GS2 at the very least can be activated at the  full range; it's unblockable and it bounces between foes and friends. Even at it's worse performance, which requires for you to be having a long distance 1v1, you will still get a clone and one hit from the skill. If you use the GS5 at long distance and all you get is a skill animation.

Now if only there was the ability to deal extra damage to your foe when your GS2 didn't have anything to bounce off of .... hmmm maybe if there was, I don't know, another skill with long range.

[Ombras.2853]

What kind of logic is that?

GS is a long range weapon = you want damaging skills to do better damage at range. Hence GS2 should be thought differently, or even the same but making it bounce at distance. GS5 is a push you use to enstablish distance between you and an opponent who closed the gap = perfectly fine as it is.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Gs5 would be fine if they upped either the range or the knock back to 600. With the current numbers it feels short. 

Gs2 is a whole different beast of a problem, with range you potentially lose 4k+ damage and boons. 

There are not a lot of skills that function this way on game, on top of my head only renegate shortbow has the same problem. 

[SkinnyT.5382]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Gs5 would be fine if they upped either the range or the knock back to 600. With the current numbers it feels short. 

Gs2 is a whole different beast of a problem, with range you potentially lose 4k+ damage and boons.

This right here is exactly it.
The GS5's range just doesn't make it as functional when it's less than half the total range of the weapon.

Also I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with the GS2. I'm just saying that you can't say one skill in this long range weapon is perfect and the other needs lots of work, when both can only take full effect when they are used at close range.
At the end  of the day the topic of the thread is the GS5, it's functions, and possible improvements; not the Gs2 which deserves a thread of it's own.

[Waffles.5632]

GS2 still works, it just doesn't work with itself, which the sentiment seems to be that it should work with itself, because it used to work with itself in the past. (Anet changed this, and AFAIK it was an intentional stealth nerf, and not a bug)

I.E If there is already a clone near your target, GS2 will bounce between that clone and target. GS2 just won't bounce between the clone it creates and the target. I hope I explained that clearly because is confusing imo.

That being said, I personally would like to see it reworked completely. I don't like it the current iteration of Mirror Blade at all. I feel like I'm constantly fighting with the skill itself and wasting it half the time. The only scenario where I really feel I get good value out of it is when there is an ally + enemy at far range. In that situation it feels great kuz you see the bounces and you know you just gave your friend a kitten ton of might with vuln on the other side for the enemy.

 

And with this thread being about GS5, my only real issue with GS5 is it fails to work on slopes and stairs. Idk if this problem is specific to mesmer, or just a general way aoes like that work, but it's jarring when you're in range, you're expecting it to land, but since they're at the top of the ramp nothing happens.

 

On it's own, it fits within the mesmer GS theme, and is very powerful. My only idea would be adding like 2sec or w/e of chilled to it, but yeah. Anything is welcomed tbh, it's a pretty plain skill if that makes sense. It does what it does lol.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Salt Mode.3780]

The only thing gs2 needs is remove the extra bounce on the trait revert the damage mods and remove that extra bounce. As far as gs 5 goes, fix the awkward pushback in strange or slight elevation. In certain cases it will work others it will not if you are slightly elevated.

The extra bounce with the damage reduced was a huge nerf for GS2. Adding that extra bounce hurt the damage not promote it.

[katte nici.9483]

Make GS 3 a teleport.

[Ombras.2853]

11 minutes ago, katte nici.9483 said:

Make GS 3 a teleport.

No, thanks. Dagger 3 should be reworked in that sense (I liked the suggestion of double clicking to swap with the tornado). GS3 works, why the heck do we want to change things that work.

[katte nici.9483]

Because then it works better.

[Justine.6351]

ooooh put reveal on gs5 😎

[necromaniac.7629]

cool* change but i think fixing gs2 is way more important that i doubt will happen anyways, and also i wish the auto attack didn't do the most dmg at max range, just make the max damage standard so it makes more sense for the virtuoso trait which makes you do more damage at melee range

[Lethion.8745]

On 6/25/2022 at 6:18 PM, necromaniac.7629 said:

cool* change but i think fixing gs2 is way more important that i doubt will happen anyways, and also i wish the auto attack didn't do the most dmg at max range, just make the max damage standard so it makes more sense for the virtuoso trait which makes you do more damage at melee range

Expecting anything about Mesmer to make sense would be too much

Edited June 28, 2022 by Lethion.8745