New Meta being ruined

[Fwog.9387]

29 minutes ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Thats what i have been saying people not doing the meta are taking up map space

Hate the game not the player. I used to jump map for commanders. Then i would join a new map after losing my stacks, and within 10 - 15 minutes another commander would come in and ask me to leave again. At a point i just stopped map hopping for them. I don't care. Its not my problem and my fishing odds are better when my stacks are higher. Anet set it up that way. It really isn't my problem. 

[Emberfoot.6847]

2 hours ago, Jaricko.6143 said:

Hate the game not the player. I used to jump map for commanders. Then i would join a new map after losing my stacks, and within 10 - 15 minutes another commander would come in and ask me to leave again. At a point i just stopped map hopping for them. I don't care. Its not my problem and my fishing odds are better when my stacks are higher. Anet set it up that way. It really isn't my problem. 

Just to add to this, the same sort of thing used to happen a LOT with things like Gerent, people just seem to have forgotten. Endless arguments in chat trying to get HP runs (that often were in the map before the Gerent comms) to map change, only for the whole HP train (if they did change map) to then be asked to move again from the next one. 

[Gorem.8104]

3 hours ago, Emberfoot.6847 said:

Just to add to this, the same sort of thing used to happen a LOT with things like Gerent, people just seem to have forgotten. Endless arguments in chat trying to get HP runs (that often were in the map before the Gerent comms) to map change, only for the whole HP train (if they did change map) to then be asked to move again from the next one. 

Its EoD in a nutshell essentially, they took everything that didn't work in the past, and just decided to do it all again in every wrong way possible. Learning from mistakes? nahhh 🙂 Let's have many dead zones in Cantha and have to release info for the next expac one month into its release to prevent mass exodus from a failed expansion. 

 

They really need to fix these issues, raise map caps to normal rest of the game levels, fix fishing up immensely, Give massive buffs to rewards in DE, make DE have much less health, and let fishing stacks stay between maps! 

[Hotride.2187]

18 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

If you can bring yourself to actually do it sometime and check the drops from the auto-loot chests and mobs, and then compare it to other metas, you might be surprised.

I redid the meta a week ago to finish the map mastery (cause of course the devs locked multiple achievements behind finishing the meta successfully, zzZzZz). I did 2 runs, 1 unorganized, the meta failed. We don't need to discuss drops, 100% waste of time. The other run, well organized, was successful (60% to 40% and 40% to 20% phases had no tails in them, I assume we got RNG jackpot - compared to my experience with the meta on launch). Aside from the antique stone (which tbf is a fairly expensive drop at least now) in about 90 min I got about half the loot from an AB where I afk for 15 min and do stuff for 10 min (5 min of which is looting chests).

Now if you sell the stone and the stone sells for 10g even 2 years from now... maybe its worth to do the meta daily. Assuming you find a good squad for it every day. While g/h is still kinda low even with the stone, its better than other metas. And ofc its worth doing until the price drops significantly (if you have guaranteed success).

But the rest of the drops? Please.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Silent.6137]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

 in about 90 min I got about half the loot from an AB where I afk for 15 min and do stuff for 10 min (5 min of which is looting chests).

But the rest of the drops? Please.

You got double the loot from the chests at AB? From the exalted, great exalted, grand exalted chests and hero's choice? Did you actually tally up the drops and check the total buy price or were you just impressed by the number of chests (27 total) that you have to manually loot that give very low value items (and taking into account the cost of keys required)?

If you determine value by number of lootable chests, then Bitterfrost will be the best farming area. The average value of drops from areas with very visible chests (TD's caches, DS's pods, VB's cargoes, Siren's waterlogged, etc.) are mostly of very  low value items.

Do you seriously believe Anet would make their brand new expansion maps of low value for farming so no one would want to farm them?

[vanfrano.1325]

Not only the drops are bad but even the way we loot all the chests at the end of Soo Won is not enjoyable, the whole EoD experience is very unenjoyable. Sadly it seems to have had a negative effect on the whole game as I never got that many map change prompts pretty much everywhere.

[Hotride.2187]

38 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Did you actually tally up the drops and check the total buy price

Yes.

Quote

Do you seriously believe Anet would make their brand new expansion maps of low value for farming so no one would want to farm them?

Yes. In fact they released the expansion without even a hero's reward chest for any meta, with a seitung meta that broke half the time (either chests were missing or meta wouldn't progress), DE meta with an RNG end boss that would spin 10 times in a row if it wanted, and probably bugs in the other 2 metas that I don't t know about, cause I played the metas like once. There are also bugs everywhere I went for the map masteries (even now, to say nothing of when eod dropped); not tons of them but enough to mistrust the content.

I decide I want to do echovald wilds meta daily, cause there is an RNG drop for an achievement from the meta boss (whatever). I login after work, do my daily crap, then check LFG at prime time and wait 20+ min until the meta starts. Not a single LFG group (but but but make your own blah blah blah). Woah, this content must have insanely good drops to attract so many groups in LFG.

Is that an actual argument now? "Do you believe QA is so bad?" Yeah I totally believe that. Over half the competitive changes in the last 2 years were not even remotely thought through (to say nothing of being thorough changes). And the excuse was, eod was in the works. Then eod gets released like that. Funny that.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Silent.6137]

50 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Yes.

I highly doubt you made a fair comparison if you think the total value of the exalted chests (27) are double that of the new map's loots. If, as you based it on your 10 short mins of actually doing something, just mining the pure jade or Echovald resin will net you more gold/hour.

55 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Yes. In fact they released the expansion without even a hero's reward chest for any meta, with a seitung meta that broke half the time (either chests were missing or meta wouldn't progress), DE meta with an RNG end boss that would spin 10 times in a row if it wanted, and probably bugs in the other 2 metas that I don't t know about, cause I played the metas like once. There are also bugs everywhere I went for the map masteries (even now, to say nothing of when eod dropped); not tons of them but enough to mistrust the content.

So you didn't actually try out the maps or metas but based it on a couple of attempts. Not knowing where to go or what to do will have a severe impact on productivity. Bugs? Of course there were bugs but like any other major things, they do get fixed. You must be incredibly unlucky if 1/2 the metas you do resulted in bugs. However, your descriptions all indicated that you did very few metas there and all those were very early bugs that were already addressed (for masteries, map completions, achievements, etc).

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I decide I want to do echovald wilds meta daily, cause there is an RNG drop for an achievement from the meta boss (whatever). I login after work, do my daily crap, then check LFG at prime time and wait 20+ min until the meta starts. Not a single LFG group (but but but make your own blah blah blah). Woah, this content must have insanely good drops to attract so many groups in LFG.

Haven't had any problem finding LFG squad at any time (unless it's late at night on my time-zone ...never checked since I'm probably asleep). Echovald meta groups usually form late because of the Kaineng meta time conflict but whenever any LFG groups are listed, they'll always get filled fairly fast.

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Is that an actual argument now? "Do you believe QA is so bad?" Yeah I totally believe that. Over half the competitive changes in the last 2 years were not even remotely thought through (to say nothing of being thorough changes). And the excuse was, eod was in the works. Then eod gets released like that. Funny that.

If you truly believe that, nothing I say would change your mind. So there's no point even debating it. Stick to AB and I'll continue to farm all the maps that give better rewards.

[Fwog.9387]

I have suggested the fix multiple times. Just make the skiff buff an aura, find some happy compromise number like 150 - 200 or something and start people out at full value instead of building. That way it doesn't matter if you map hop. You wouldn't need to code the skiff buff to make an exception for dying maps or whatever. And honestly 150 - 200ish would be enough in the majority of cases. 

Rod + Bait* + Lure + Food + Full Tank + Fishing Mastery 5 Buff**

= 25 + 100 + 100 + 150 + 100 + (20 x 5) = 575 Fishing Power

You need 750 for the hardest map. So if they set it at 150, you will come up short in draconis mons. However the seitung heart fishing buff would put you right where you need to be. So i would lean in favor of 200 as having to drop into seitung to fish in draconis is a little silly. But that is round about what you need. Its a compromise for the map hopping people. It gives a reason to actually craft the fishing buffs with power / condi ect as that would let you help a meta if you wanted. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

3 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

You got double the loot from the chests at AB? From the exalted, great exalted, grand exalted chests and hero's choice? Did you actually tally up the drops and check the total buy price or were you just impressed by the number of chests (27 total) that you have to manually loot that give very low value items (and taking into account the cost of keys required)?

Did you? I'd like to see how much it actually is.

[Silent.6137]

42 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Did you? I'd like to see how much it actually is.

Did I what? Quoted what Hotride.2187 stated and asked if the total value were compared?

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 minute ago, Silent.6137 said:

Did I what? Quoted what Hotride.2187 stated and asked if the total value were compared?

I'm asking you how much the rewards are worth; sorry if you already posted that.

[Silent.6137]

18 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I'm asking you how much the rewards are worth; sorry if you already posted that.

From what I recalled (haven't done metas on HoT maps since released of EoD), the total value in terms of g/h for AB is about 10 to 12 (if being very generous). You'll get significantly more than that from doing just the fast spawning events from DE. There may not be chests to manually loot but the auto-loot chests and drops from mobs are of higher value.

The g/h from DE is definitely not 1/2 of AB meta as mentioned in that comment.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Silent.6137

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 minute ago, Silent.6137 said:

From what I recalled (haven't done metas on HoT maps since released of EoD), the total value in terms of g/h for AB is about 10 to 12. You'll get significantly more than that from doing just the fast spawning events from DE. There may not be chests to manually loot but the auto-loot chests and drops from mobs are of higher value.

That's worth considering, thanks..  I've never been one to be against getting gold.

Anyhow: https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/meta is where I get my info from.

Seems accurate?

 

[Silent.6137]

3 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

That's worth considering, thanks..  I've never been one to be against getting gold.

Anyhow: https://fast.farming-community.eu/open-world/meta is where I get my info from.

Seems accurate?

 

When looking at those data, always be mindful that those are usually optimized runs, including the DE meta. Average runs will probably net lesser amounts for all maps. And some crucial items, such as farming for keys in Dragonfall for example, are not included. Those takes time to acquired and should be accounted for.

However, they are a very good indication of the profitability of the various maps/metas.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Just now, Silent.6137 said:

When looking at those data, always be mindful that those are usually optimized runs, including the DE meta. Average runs will probably net lesser amounts for all maps. And some crucial items, such as farming for keys in Dragonfall for example, are not included. Those takes time to acquired and should be accounted for.

However, they are a very good indication of the profitability of the various maps/metas.

Well, I will just assume the 60% success rate thing is still accurate and multiple that by 0.6 for DE.Not exactly the best way but I think it'll be good to at least have a semi-educated guess.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

When looking at those data, always be mindful that those are usually optimized runs, including the DE meta.

Now they're mentioning in the last column how optimized those runs are. DE value is fully optimized (and calculated in some veeery optimistic way i might add, like including the same weekly option for Antique Stone in two places). AB is listed as LFG pug results so is likely way, way closer to what someone should realistically expect.

 

[Silent.6137]

55 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

(and calculated in some veeery optimistic way i might add, like including the same weekly option for Antique Stone in two places)

What are you refering to?

[Baseleader.4128]

10 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

(60% to 40% and 40% to 20% phases had no tails in them, I assume we got RNG jackpot - compared to my experience with the meta on launch)

If you have enough dps, you never get tails. So could be RNG or simply that.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

What are you refering to?

Part of the value of the run includes values of both imperial favour and writs. With value of writs being based on turning them for favour. And with favour value being based on the cost of weekly buy of Antique Summoning Stone. Which you can but for favour once per week.

[Tukaram.8256]

17 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

Thats what i have been saying people not doing the meta are taking up map space

 

17 hours ago, Jaricko.6143 said:

Hate the game not the player. I used to jump map for commanders. Then i would join a new map after losing my stacks, and within 10 - 15 minutes another commander would come in and ask me to leave again. At a point i just stopped map hopping for them. I don't care. Its not my problem and my fishing odds are better when my stacks are higher. Anet set it up that way. It really isn't my problem. 

Yep. That is open world play.  It is not our fault how ANet set up the game. I am not map hopping for an event. It is not my fault, and not my problem. 😎

[Silent.6137]

37 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Part of the value of the run includes values of both imperial favour and writs. With value of writs being based on turning them for favour. And with favour value being based on the cost of weekly buy of Antique Summoning Stone. Which you can but for favour once per week.

Totally wrong assumptions on your part.

If you follow the drops table: Writs value are based on Imperial Favor> Value of Favors based on best items purchased from vendors. Antique Summoning Stones are not factored into the value of Favors. Only time that value is used is the DE Hero's Choice Chest.

In case you think there's double-counting of writs and favors, you get both from events on EoD maps.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Silent.6137]

48 minutes ago, Tukaram.8256 said:

 

Yep. That is open world play.  It is not our fault how ANet set up the game. I am not map hopping for an event. It is not my fault, and not my problem. 😎

No one should be told to leave a map for someone else. It is the squad's problem, not yours, that someone can't get onto the same instance.

Although I've been on a few squads where that happened, I'm never supportive of it. There's a big difference between asking and telling, which many seems not to differentiate.

• Telling: Leave the map. Less rude: Please leave the map. Regardless of which version, it is still entitlement to think your time is more important than another player's time.
• Asking in a polite way: Please consider joining our squad for meta or moving to another instance if you're not doing the meta so the rest of our squad can get on the same map.

Most commanders will just ask squad members to keep trying.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Mickey.4207]

On 6/19/2022 at 10:27 PM, SoulBlaze.3059 said:

Was with a meta running group in dragons end, we tried to join an instance and found that there was a large fishing group that refused to leave due to losing stacks. We told them they would lose stacks when the meta is failed anyways, and they still refused. We also found a botting group on the south side of the map of about 7 necros. We really need a way to allow fishing stacks to save temporarily for people leaving meta maps because these things are ruining meta runs. We also really need a way to boot botters. Its just dumb.

It's a dead horse at this point. ANET doesn't care. They had plenty of feedback since release. Time to move on. 

[Emberfoot.6847]

7 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

From what I recalled (haven't done metas on HoT maps since released of EoD), the total value in terms of g/h for AB is about 10 to 12 (if being very generous). You'll get significantly more than that from doing just the fast spawning events from DE. There may not be chests to manually loot but the auto-loot chests and drops from mobs are of higher value.

The g/h from DE is definitely not 1/2 of AB meta as mentioned in that comment.

I personally am not here to argue total overall values but just to make 1 reminder. AB meta takes like 10mins then you get loot. SooWon takes (as far as my experience goes) about an hour minimum. If you have limited time to play or a dodgy Internet connection, you may well still be better to do AB as the loot as you go in EoD is poor, with the main rewards being only on success at the very end.