Giving those using infantile raid mode full rewards is a huge punch in the gut from anet to their hardcore players

[soul.9651]

I mean they can do only 1 raid wing with this ez mode.... + with the current mechanist and fb meta all of the raid wings feel like this ez mode so im seeing a bigger problem with a game balance rather than just this ez mode.... And on top of this im glad that people now can just chill and do their progress towards lege armors themselfs instead of having to buy all the raid runs from the sellers which is 1000000000 times worse and idk how the hell this thing still isnt against anets ToS but thats another topic anyway. 

[Pinkeh.4207]

Apparently selling raids is fine, but training wheels is not. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Pinkeh.4207

[Wintermute.5408]

1 hour ago, Pinkeh.4207 said:

Apparently selling raids is fine, but training wheels is not. 

This guy gets it.

[Krzysztof.5973]

3 hours ago, Pinkeh.4207 said:

Apparently selling raids is fine, but training wheels is not. 

Says who?

[Labjax.2465]

11 hours ago, Pinkeh.4207 said:

Apparently selling raids is fine, but training wheels is not. 

Not that you mention it, I wonder if there's overlap between people who don't like this and people who sell raids. 🤔

I'm not accusing anyone, just... it would make sense if there was.

[Biziut.3594]

On 7/11/2022 at 3:41 AM, Labjax.2465 said:

Not that you mention it, I wonder if there's overlap between people who don't like this and people who sell raids. 🤔

I'm not accusing anyone, just... it would make sense if there was.

I do not like emboldened and i do not sell raids, in fact I scorn the raid sellers just the same as i scorn emboldened.

Few months ago I was afraid of getting into raids too, coz everyone was saying that there were toxic ppls and stuff. Eventually I convinced myself to try it anyways. Got into some training runs with great ppls that helped me improve my playstyle and got my firsy kp's. Than i was able to join groups with some requirements. Now after getting onlt around 30 kp from each boss i was invited to a static that usually invite ppls with much more kp's. 

I met some toxic ppls but not more than anywhere else, and always other squad members are laughing at toxic players as well. Raiders are great, normal ppls and its sad to see that ppls that are just too lazy to learn simple mechanic are making them a bad name creating a psychological barrier that prevented me and is still preventing others to join and meed those ppls.

[Labjax.2465]

4 minutes ago, Biziut.3594 said:

I do not like emboldened and i do not sell raids, in fact I scorn the raid sellers just the same as i scorn emboldened.

Few months ago I was afraid of getting into raids too, coz everyone was saying that there were toxic ppls and stuff. Eventually I convinced myself to try it anyways. Got into some training runs with great ppls that helped me improve my playstyle and got my firsy kp's. Than i was able to join groups with some requirements. Now after getting onlt around 30 kp from each boss i was invited to a static that usually invite ppls with much more kp's. 

I met some toxic ppls but not more than anywhere else, and always other squad members are laughing at toxic players as well. Raiders are great, normal ppls and its sad to see that ppls that are just too lazy to learn simple mechanic are making them a bad name creating a psychological barrier that prevented me and is still preventing others to join and meed those ppls.

So you acknowledge that there are psychological barriers to raiding, but you dislike emboldened mode, something that helps people get past psychological barriers to raiding???

[soul.9651]

On 7/11/2022 at 4:41 AM, Labjax.2465 said:

Not that you mention it, I wonder if there's overlap between people who don't like this and people who sell raids. 🤔

I'm not accusing anyone, just... it would make sense if there was.

You are making them too confused lul

[Biziut.3594]

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

So you acknowledge that there are psychological barriers to raiding, but you dislike emboldened mode, something that helps people get past psychological barriers to raiding???

Yes and no, psychological barrier exist but the way to solve it is a no no from me. I am more up for full raid easy mode, like make mechanics less punishing, and even give some dps buff just like emboldened gives but also cut rewards by half and don't give any kp's, achivs or shiny skins.

This way new players would learn how to survive and do dps but also experienced players would have oppourtinity to learn how to do boss specific mechanics (like HK, tank, pylon, kite lamp).

I understand tho that both Raiders and to be raiders are not fond of this idea cuz of "waste of resources" and players that only want rewards served on silver plate.

Also what i tried to tell in my post that I was in the same shoues all of this scared players wear, seeing elitists everywhere, and from my example I can assure you that fear have big eyes, Raiders are great comunity, closed only for ppls that refuse to learn and want everything to be killed with 1 button. I think we can all agree that raids should be a challange, thats why we all enjoy them so much.

EDIT:  With easy mode I mean something like fractal CM's and normal ones. You learn the mechanics but CM's remain harder and have better rewards.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Biziut.3594

[Daniyyel.3428]

If a person is upset about emboldened mode then they must really hate the raid sellers who literally carry a person through the wing and that person who did nothing gets the same rewards and LI for doing nothing.

[Fueki.4753]

55 minutes ago, danielrjones.8759 said:

If a person is upset about emboldened mode then they must really hate the raid sellers who literally carry a person through the wing and that person who did nothing gets the same rewards and LI for doing nothing.

You got it backwards.

Raid sellers are the ones being upset, now that their market is shrinking, because less players have to rely on sell runs.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[soulknight.9620]

Emboldened mode is awsome. The main goal of this buff is to get some pressure off of players personal "dps rotations" so that they can focus on learning the mechanics. And when they learned the mechanics they can go into normal mode and focus on their personal class mechanics. 
Its been 3 weeks now since it launched. Not even once i have seen it being abused by "/gg 5 times and get easy run". Its actually pretty common that people clear a boss in 1st try even without experience. And many of these players start doing normal runs after they did the emoldened one cause they have the experience and confidence to do it. 

Another thing ive whitnessed myself is that after people cleared emboldened wing they actually went forward onto next wing and completed it on normal mode cause it wasnt that "hard/frightning" as they thought it would be. Ive seen many raid groups gathering people on "training" LFG for various wings, not just weekly emboldened wing. 

This buff actually reinvigorated raids and introduced a lot of new players to this content. 

The comments about "they get rewards for free" is laughable. It takes 7 weeks to clear a every single raid wing once by using emboldened mode. Do you really think players get a lot of unique (rare) rewards by doing every boss once? The rewards are not going to make a difference if you are not doing normal mode raids at this point weekly. 
If you want elitist rewards that most of pve people cant get - Harvest Temple CM is waiting for you. You did get it right?

I critique anet a lot for their bad decisions, but i must give credit where credit is due, this addition is wonderfull. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by soulknight.9620

[Sobx.1758]

On 7/10/2022 at 4:10 PM, Pinkeh.4207 said:

Apparently selling raids is fine, but training wheels is not. 

On 7/10/2022 at 5:56 PM, Wintermute.5408 said:

This guy gets it.

Coincidentally I disagree that it's fine, so... he gets what exactly? How to make an attempt at irrelevant strawman that has nothing to do with what I said?(and even moreso, pretty much contradicts my actual stance on this)? 😅

Edited July 13, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

On 7/11/2022 at 3:41 AM, Labjax.2465 said:

Not that you mention it, I wonder if there's overlap between people who don't like this and people who sell raids. 🤔

I'm not accusing anyone, just... it would make sense if there was.

Yeah, you should start using lfg and let us know, because for now despite you claiming you're not "accusing anyone", the context/timing  of your response shows something else and that suspicion is just wrong here 😉

On 7/12/2022 at 10:41 AM, Labjax.2465 said:

So you acknowledge that there are psychological barriers to raiding, but you dislike emboldened mode, something that helps people get past psychological barriers to raiding???

So you acknowledge that forum fearmongering is a huge part of what builds up that barrier and yet you keep doing it without even participating in the content you're trying to spread the misinformation about? How can you still not see the issue in that? 

I had a similar experience to @Biziut.3594 with the only exception being I never wanted to join static, so I didn't. This forum's mostly unsubstanciated fearmongering is what held me from that content for a long time.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Caliboom.3218]

On 6/23/2022 at 4:23 PM, mindcircus.1506 said:

Thank you for being a living breathing example of the "Hardcore" Stereotype that the low effort Andys on this forum keep using as a tale to frighten children around the campfire.
The world needs more living memes.

"N-No, you don't understand, the things people say about raiders being elitists are just fairy tales, they're spreading those things for no reason! They just dislike raiders!"

Just admit that a large part of raiders are extremely toxic, makes things easier for everyone. No amount of coping is gonna change that.

[Wintermute.5408]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Coincidentally I disagree that it's fine, so... he gets what exactly? How to make an attempt at irrelevant strawman that has nothing to do with what I said?(and even moreso, pretty much contradicts my actual stance on this)? 😅

It doesn't matter whether you agree that it's fine or not. Raid selling is reality. Within said reality, there are no grounds to give a kitten if bunch of noobs actually get to clear an "easy mode" raid and get rewards for it. And "easy" should really be put in quotations, because, thinking on it, Emboldened will make Statues of Grenth so much fun...

Edited July 13, 2022 by Wintermute.5408

[Krzysztof.5973]

3 hours ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

"N-No, you don't understand, the things people say about raiders being elitists are just fairy tales, they're spreading those things for no reason! They just dislike raiders!"

Just admit that a large part of raiders are extremely toxic, makes things easier for everyone. No amount of coping is gonna change that.

Large part of raiders are toxic? 
Then there is large amount of non-raiders who get offended by every little thing from anybody even getting close of the area of suggesting the alteration of their way of playing the game. The sheer existence of 'raiding' LFGs is giving them panic attacks.

Just admit that a large part of non-raiders are extremely fragile, makes things easier for everyone. No amount of coping is gonna change that. 

[Caliboom.3218]

1 hour ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Large part of raiders are toxic? 
Then there is large amount of non-raiders who get offended by every little thing from anybody even getting close of the area of suggesting the alteration of their way of playing the game. The sheer existence of 'raiding' LFGs is giving them panic attacks.

Just admit that a large part of non-raiders are extremely fragile, makes things easier for everyone. No amount of coping is gonna change that. 

So I dare mention that a large amount of raiders are toxic and this is what you reply with instead of providing an actual counterargument? Most non-raiders being extremely fragile, really now?

Nice job proving my point.

[Krzysztof.5973]

20 minutes ago, Caliboom.3218 said:

Nice job proving my point.

Likewise 😘

[Labjax.2465]

2 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Large part of raiders are toxic? 
Then there is large amount of non-raiders who get offended by every little thing from anybody even getting close of the area of suggesting the alteration of their way of playing the game. The sheer existence of 'raiding' LFGs is giving them panic attacks.

Just admit that a large part of non-raiders are extremely fragile, makes things easier for everyone. No amount of coping is gonna change that. 

Describing someone being intimidated by raid LFGs as a panic attack is itself being toxic though, as is calling non-raiders fragile. So all you are doing is proving the point of people who call raiders toxic. You are looking down on those outside them as weak and pathetic.

The cool thing though is apparently emboldened mode is getting more people into raids, so that will help outweigh the toxic raiders like yourself with people who aren't so obsessed with the image of it.

[Tukaram.8256]

3 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Large part of raiders are toxic? 
Then there is large amount of non-raiders who get offended by every little thing from anybody even getting close of the area of suggesting the alteration of their way of playing the game. The sheer existence of 'raiding' LFGs is giving them panic attacks.

Just admit that a large part of non-raiders are extremely fragile, makes things easier for everyone. No amount of coping is gonna change that. 

Admitting you are a toxic raider?  I would suspect raiders would not want you to argue for their side ha ha. 

[Krzysztof.5973]

4 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Describing someone being intimidated by raid LFGs as a panic attack is itself being toxic though, as is calling non-raiders fragile. So all you are doing is proving the point of people who call raiders toxic. You are looking down on those outside them as weak and pathetic.

The cool thing though is apparently emboldened mode is getting more people into raids, so that will help outweigh the toxic raiders like yourself with people who aren't so obsessed with the image of it.

I was making a hyperbolic statement opposite to his, pointing out how ridiculous he sounds by saying "a large part of raiders are extremely toxic" which is false. I'm glad everyone caught that...

[Labjax.2465]

22 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

I was making a hyperbolic statement opposite to his, pointing out how ridiculous he sounds by saying "a large part of raiders are extremely toxic" which is false. I'm glad everyone caught that...

"A large part" might be overstating it on their part, but they were responding to the context of people who are dismissive of elitism existing at all. Thus "just admit it, makes things easier for everyone." If you'd caught that, maybe you wouldn't have tried to ridicule them and played the part of a toxic raider in the process.

Maybe you haven't noticed how some people in this community try to talk about elitism like it never actually happens and it's just players who aggressively don't want to try making up stories. A real reverse uno card of blaming the victim. Never mind the fact that a gatekeeping mentality has enough of a hold over the game's end-game PvE community that you have a kill proof website validating you are worthy in your signature. Power is generally where to look when considering who is making up stories and who is downplaying their actions, and players who don't want to try aren't the ones setting the standards for who gets into groups.

And I will say, cause I know somebody is gonna try to reverse uno card it and say "you think it's elitist to want a group to be the you way you want it? that's unfair": no I don't think that forming a group and having certain standards for it is inherently elitist. The point is just that when it comes to who is holding the cards, it's the ones making KP a requirement, not the ones ignoring it and getting kicked. Nobody's getting kicked from a group specifically because they have KP and can do 100% alacrity uptime, but it does go in the other direction.

So people can try to say there's these players who don't want to try who are just as mean as them, but those players are not excluding the KP players from groups. They have no power of influence to do so. Nobody's gonna want to kick a person just because they can perform well. So how can it possibly be treated as the same thing.

[Krzysztof.5973]

59 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

they were responding to the context of people who are dismissive of elitism existing at all.

Who? Are they in this thread with us? OP's main point of contention are raid rewards. 

59 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

"A large part" might be overstating it on their part

So you're now arguing not for what he said, but for what he should have said?

59 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Maybe you haven't noticed how some people in this community try to talk about elitism like it never actually happens and it's just players who aggressively don't want to try making up stories.

My problem is that they take single bad interaction (in their minds) and extrapolate it to "large part of raiders" or "most raiders" or "all raiders". When you get into the weeds of their stories, you realize that their interaction was not that bad after all. 

59 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Never mind the fact that a gatekeeping mentality has enough of a hold over the game's end-game PvE community that you have a kill proof website validating you are worthy in your signature.

Gatekeeping is good, but that's not the time and place for that discussion. I also have kp.me because I'm top 1 for LI+LD count in this game, which makes me somewhat happy to show that. 

59 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Nobody's getting kicked from a group specifically because they have KP

I'm sure it happened at some point. If somebody wants to make an LFG containing of people who have no KP, and they kick people with said KP - they can. All the power to them. 

In any case... Emboldened mode is good - but not in a way it was introduced, which is again, all OP is talking about.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Krzysztof.5973

[Labjax.2465]

2 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Who? Are they in this thread with us? OP's main point of contention are raid rewards. 

So you're now arguing not for what he said, but for what he should have said?

My problem is that they take single bad interaction (in their minds) and extrapolate it to "large part of raiders" or "most raiders" or "all raiders". When you get into the weeds of their stories, you realize that their interaction was not that bad after all. 

Gatekeeping is good, but that's not the time and place for that discussion. I also have kp.me because I'm top 1 for LI+LD count in this game, which makes me somewhat happy to show that. 

I'm sure it happened at some point. If somebody wants to make an LFG containing of people who have no KP, and they kick people with said KP - they can. All the power to them. 

In any case... Emboldened mode is good - but not in a way it was introduced, which is again, all OP is talking about.

Um, really you're asking who? The person you were replying to when you made "a hyperbolic statement opposite to his"

Anyway, I'm not going to respond blow by blow. I refuse to get into those ridiculous conversation breakdown things. It becomes impossible for anyone to follow what's being said, much less ourselves.