Thoughts on Emboldened Boon, and suggestions

[solvemprobler.4295]

Long time lurker, first time poster, I want to keep this fairly short.
I want to talk about the Emboldened Boon, or more specifically, the things you can get from it.
I am not talking about LI. I couldn't care less about how much easier LI will be to farm.

For context, I've been enjoying raiding with a liquid static that's very much about keeping it fun and stressing about meta builds as little as humanly possible.
I started a few months back, from a 3h long Slothasor training run, to 2-3h long weekly w1-4 clears with little to no hiccups.
I finished Envoy II about 2 days ago, and boy...was that a journey. In a very good way :) I'm sitting on 133LI, so in a couple weeks tops I should have my first set ready.

The Emboldened boon will definitely get a lot of people into raiding, and I absolutely see it as a good thing. I repeat. 10/10. Lots of people want to try raiding but are on the fence about it, and I think this is a good nudge.

I'm talking about the Envoy and Coalescence achievements, and how by the looks of it, they are not turned off during emboldened runs.
That in my opinion, invalidates the time and effort I have spent raiding the past few months, and I'm dead certain I'm not the only one feeling the same way.

I think those 2 achievement chains should not be ON during an Emboldened run.
If Anet is not interested in keeping raids hard to be more inclusive, then it is what it is. Hell they might have all sorts of plans ahead that I know nothing about, that will balance out this strange decision.

I think a valid option would be to add an achievement (to show yourself) or a title (to show others) that you've cleared raid bosses during a normal encounter.
I understand a title would spark more discussions, as it would be more about prestige than an achievement, but given the EoD CM strike titles I see all over the place, I don't think Anet has a problem with it. And I don't mean that in a bad way.
Not only would it validate the efforts of people that cleared these achievements before the update, but I'm certain it would motivate a lot of new raiders to take off the training wheels and try raiding in normal mode.


I'm also compelled to say that I believe achievements to be the bread and butter, unlike grinding gold. While the boon will be great to get people to raid, it should be a nudge, not a freebie. Honestly, not everyone will be a 8 years veteran, so decreasing the time people are committed to achievements will automatically shorten the time they're invested in the game. The two things don't have to cancel each other out.
My 2 cents, hoping a Dev reads this :)

[Hotride.2187]

Only reason I'd do raids would be for coalescence and so far it has not been enough of a motivation to join a guild and go through the usual raiding motions. Even with this new trainer mode I doubt I'd start.

Still, fair I guess. If you are meant to do actual raiding for it and the pve legendary armors, best to do actual raiding. Game gives you alternatives if you don't want to raid, so all good.

If you want legendary armor but don't want to deal with raids, spend like 300+ hours per set in wvw. Spvp also works, though dunno how long that takes. Even the ring you can get 2 of in wvw (again, with deranged time investment but low actual effort).

For the achievements... meh. There is always at least 1 ad for selling achievements in the raid LFG. Sometimes multiple. If someone has a list they have to tick off, but don't want to do item X on the list... they'll find a way to not do it.

I'm talking more from a personal POV, in terms of enjoying the game for yourself. Not the mentality of "but I did this hard/long/boring thing so others must have to do it as well" (which honestly in a game is just laughable).

Edited June 23, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Nakasz.5471]

First of all, I'm not crying, I already have all the legendary armors and I don't need more LI.
I would like to know: Why does this invalidate the time you spent?

You keep your armor and legendary achievements, basically what the buff really changes is the DPS check issue, it will be much easier to get a decent DPS with the buff. Which is very good as many people have trouble getting good numbers.

The mechanics will remain the same (including the one shot ones), what will be the difference between making cairn's Jade Heart with emboldened and without emboldened? The number of greens you need to stay, only, as in an emboldened run he will die more faster.

What's the difference between doing Demonic Heart (Deimos Envoy Achievement) with emboldened and without? You still have to go through ALL Deimos phases. You'll still get one shot if you stay out of the dome at mindcrush time, if you're out of some block/invuln source, etc. You will continue wiping on Deimos on you step on the oil non-stop. Dont you think you can survive Deimos Oil even with 50% healing buff, yeah? XD

Honestly, I think what you're raising is the detail of the detail. The positives of the new change are INFINITELY superior to the negatives.

We need more people raiding (it's been 3 years since the last one was released), more people getting legendary armor. As long as the mechanics are maintained, and have a certain challenge in making them.

There's another point you forgot: emboldened raids will be very interesting for training, since you have more healing and damage. That way you can focus more on LEARNING MECHANICS.

It would be SENSATIONAL to see many groups on lfg with the following description: "Weekly emboldened LF Role". It would be much better than the garbage that is raid lfg today, where every week you have to block new sellers just so you don't see their ads.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Nakasz.5471

[solvemprobler.4295]

2 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Only reason I'd do raids would be for coalescence and so far it has not been enough of a motivation to join a guild and go through the usual raiding motions. Even with this new trainer mode I doubt I'd start.

Still, fair I guess. If you are meant to do actual raiding for it and the pve legendary armors, best to do actual raiding. Game gives you alternatives if you don't want to raid, so all good.

If you want legendary armor but don't want to deal with raids, spend like 300+ hours per set in wvw. Spvp also works, though dunno how long that takes. Even the ring you can get 2 of in wvw (again, with deranged time investment but low actual effort).

For the achievements... meh. There is always at least 1 ad for selling achievements in the raid LFG. Sometimes multiple. If someone has a list they have to tick off, but don't want to do item X on the list... they'll find away to not do it.

I mean...sure. I don't know where you're going with this though.
IMO, regardless of the price of buying achievements which I'm sure isn't peanuts, I think there's something substantially wrong with the way you play if you buy a game, then pay people to play the game for you.

And yeah, there are other ways to get legendary armor, but we're talking about this one, which by the way is already the easiest of the 3 if you value time. If you don't I guess WvW takes the cake.

[Labjax.2465]

3 minutes ago, Nakasz.5471 said:

First of all, I'm not crying, I already have all the legendary armors and I don't need more LI.
I would like to know: Why does this invalidate the time you spent?

You keep your armor and legendary achievements, basically what the buff really changes is the DPS check issue, it will be much easier to get a decent DPS with the buff. Which is very good as many people have trouble getting good numbers.

The mechanics will remain the same (including the one shot ones), what will be the difference between making cairn's Jade Heart with emboldened and without emboldened? The number of greens you need to stay, only, as in an emboldened run he will die faster.

What's the difference between doing Demonic Heart (Deimos Envoy Achievement) with emboldened and without? You still have to go through ALL the stages of Deimos. You'll still get one shot if you stay out of the dome at mindcrush time, if you're out of some block/invuln source, etc. You will continue wiping the Deimos if you step on the oil non-stop.

Honestly, I think what you're raising is the detail of the detail. The positives of the new change are INFINITELY superior to the negatives.

We need more people raiding (it's been 3 years since the last one was released), more people getting legendary armor. As long as the mechanics are maintained, and have a certain challenge in making them.

There's another point you forgot: emboldened raids will be very interesting for training, since you have more healing and damage. That way you can focus more on LEARNING MECHANICS.

It would be SENSATIONAL to see many groups on lfg with the following description: "Weekly emboldened LF Role". It would be much better than the garbage that is raid lfg today, where every week you have to block new sellers just so you don't see their ads.

I like your views on this, well said.

[Linken.6345]

19 minutes ago, Nakasz.5471 said:

First of all, I'm not crying, I already have all the legendary armors and I don't need more LI.
I would like to know: Why does this invalidate the time you spent?

You keep your armor and legendary achievements, basically what the buff really changes is the DPS check issue, it will be much easier to get a decent DPS with the buff. Which is very good as many people have trouble getting good numbers.

The mechanics will remain the same (including the one shot ones), what will be the difference between making cairn's Jade Heart with emboldened and without emboldened? The number of greens you need to stay, only, as in an emboldened run he will die more faster.

What's the difference between doing Demonic Heart (Deimos Envoy Achievement) with emboldened and without? You still have to go through ALL Deimos phases. You'll still get one shot if you stay out of the dome at mindcrush time, if you're out of some block/invuln source, etc. You will continue wiping on Deimos on you step on the oil non-stop. Dont you think you can survive Deimos Oil even with 50% healing buff, yeah? XD

Honestly, I think what you're raising is the detail of the detail. The positives of the new change are INFINITELY superior to the negatives.

We need more people raiding (it's been 3 years since the last one was released), more people getting legendary armor. As long as the mechanics are maintained, and have a certain challenge in making them.

There's another point you forgot: emboldened raids will be very interesting for training, since you have more healing and damage. That way you can focus more on LEARNING MECHANICS.

It would be SENSATIONAL to see many groups on lfg with the following description: "Weekly emboldened LF Role". It would be much better than the garbage that is raid lfg today, where every week you have to block new sellers just so you don't see their ads.

Or you could just do -sell in the lfg search bar

[Nakasz.5471]

1 minute ago, Linken.6345 said:

Or you could just do -sell in the lfg search bar

I learned that you can use filters on lfg not long ago, seriously XD. I didn't know that before hahaha

Edited June 23, 2022 by Nakasz.5471

[Jovan.1804]

I'm not sure I see the issue to be honest. Emboldened will apply to one raid wing per week (per the announcement). Assuming it starts at W1 and follows release order, you're looking at a minimum of 29 weeks just to finish Envoy 1 (because of needing 5 Gorseval kills. Since Gorseval is in W1, 7x4=28 and then add 1 for the first week of the next cycle.). Then a minimum of 3 more weeks to attempt Envoy 2. If someone really only wants to engage with raids at a more accessible level in exchange for a ridiculously long time investment that's their business. 

Getting into pure speculation, I'm not sure the collections can just be turned off. We haven't seen how it works yet, but then description mentioned it being automatic on entering the wing. So are you advocating that the people trying to complete their collections have additional weeks added as a byproduct of poor timing? Just trying to make sense of your standpoint. 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Jovan.1804
Formatting

[ArchonWing.9480]

I don't mind suggestions involving giving extra rewards/titles to doing it without the buff, but disabling the key achievements when it's on would be a step sideways in terms of accessibility.

I mean, it'd be okay if people that took the harder route should get their armor faster, but not to shut other people out.

[Zera.9435]

I like the idea of making raids more accessible, but to reduce the potential rewards is not good. I don't really raid, and the only reason I would is to work on lego armor, but to get reduced rewards for something that already takes MONTHS to do diligently is not to my liking. I doubt people do raids just because they're bored. People put in the effort in hopes of getting rewards (particularly LI). It's a give and take. Either way, I don't see myself getting actively involved in raiding anytime soon, but if I were, I would hope that I get full rewards every time.

[Hotride.2187]

42 minutes ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

I mean...sure. I don't know where you're going with this though.

Gate the legendaries behind the real raids. Do whatever with the achievements, there already is cheese for them (buy them).

[solvemprobler.4295]

7 minutes ago, Nakasz.5471 said:

First of all, I'm not crying, I already have all the legendary armors and I don't need more LI.
I would like to know: Why does this invalidate the time you spent?

You keep your armor and legendary achievements, basically what the buff really changes is the DPS check issue, it will be much easier to get a decent DPS with the buff. Which is very good as many people have trouble getting good numbers.

The mechanics will remain the same (including the one shot ones), what will be the difference between making cairn's Jade Heart with emboldened and without emboldened? The number of greens you need to stay, only, as in an emboldened run he will die faster.

What's the difference between doing Demonic Heart (Deimos Envoy Achievement) with emboldened and without? You still have to go through ALL the stages of Deimos. You'll still get one shot if you stay out of the dome at mindcrush time, if you're out of some block/invuln source, etc. You will continue wiping the Deimos if you step on the oil non-stop.

Honestly, I think what you're raising is the detail of the detail. The positives of the new change are INFINITELY superior to the negatives.

We need more people raiding (it's been 3 years since the last one was released), more people getting legendary armor. As long as the mechanics are maintained, and have a certain challenge in making them.

There's another point you forgot: emboldened raids will be very interesting for training, since you have more healing and damage. That way you can focus more on LEARNING MECHANICS.

It would be SENSATIONAL to see many groups on lfg with the following description: "Weekly emboldened LF Role". It would be much better than the garbage that is raid lfg today, where every week you have to block new sellers just so you don't see their ads.

First of all I very strongly believe that struggling makes reaching the goal more satisfying.
I wouldn't connect my soon to come first leggy set, to such a good time with my static, if Emboldened run meant I'd wipe at Cairn heart achievement 2 times instead of 10. I'd be like, "nice", and move on, not getting much of a kick out of it...but I'm fully aware this isn't how everyone sees playing games. Believe me I do.

Also, again...I'm not against the boon. I'm against the things you can do with said boon.
As you said, it makes it easier for you to learn mechanics, and I think that's great. But that's all it should do. You clear with Emboldened, get your 2g, your LI, a pat on the back and a "do the same with a bit of pink gear, in a longer fight, and you'll get the achievement!"
Because mechanics would be the same.

Now, if ANET wants to straight up make raids easier, there's nothing you and me can do about it.

Does it have to make all my effort feel like an extra, since I could clear on easy mode now, with the same results? I don't think it has to. Especially in a game that's trying to be super inclusive.

The need to make raiding and leggy pve armor more accessible to players can coexist with the satisfaction that comes with having cleared achievements without training wheels, for those interested in it...with a simple title/achievement. I have nothing to show for it, and that's why my time feels invalidated.

Am I gonna try Dhuum Emboldened run?
Absolutely.
And I'm very, very glad Coalescence does not advance

Spoiler

until I open the chest behind the throne

, 'cause it gives me the option to go back and do it only after clearing a normal run. You are not given that option for, say, Samarog.
I'm sure some are into that, I'm sure some don't mind one bit, etc. but for those that care, they are not given the choice.
It wouldn't cost ANET anything to do that.

[solvemprobler.4295]

43 minutes ago, Jovan.1804 said:

I'm not sure I see the issue to be honest. Emboldened will apply to one raid wing per week (per the announcement). Assuming it starts at W1 and follows release order, you're looking at a minimum of 29 weeks just to finish Envoy 1 (because of needing 5 Gorseval kills. Since Gorseval is in W1, 7x4=28 and then add 1 for the first week of the next cycle.). Then a minimum of 3 more weeks to attempt Envoy 2. If someone really only wants to engage with raids at a more accessible level in exchange for a ridiculously long time investment that's their business. 

Getting into pure speculation, I'm not sure the collections can just be turned off. We haven't seen how it works yet, but then description mentioned it being automatic on entering the wing. So are you advocating that the people trying to complete their collections have additional weeks added as a byproduct of poor timing? Just trying to make sense of your standpoint. 

No, it's not at all about how long it takes them, it's about the effort I have put in in the past few months, compared to the effort people can put in now, for exactly the same results.
And this isn't to say it should be harder for them, either.
Since I imagine adding an achievement to the game saying "you've cleared Envoy I and II without training wheels!" would be weird to do, 'cause it's not something repeatable...I think it'd be fair to at least add an achievement/title that says "you've killed every raid boss in normal mode" since now there's an easy mode.
I am all for more people joining raids, and having an easier time learning, and seeing a fight through the end. Saying people should take longer than me to make leggy armor would be a stupid argument, it's not at all what I'm saying.

While I do see what you mean with Ectoplasmic Residue needing normal runs to be cleared without waiting for ages, that's just a consequence of the way the achievement has been designed and not so much a conscious decision regarding Emboldened runs.

I've had a hard (but great) time through some achievements/bosses, and if ANET doesn't want it to be hard for everyone, I can understand why, but that doesn't have to invalidate my efforts like the efforts of many others who have been raiding the past few years.

[solvemprobler.4295]

1 hour ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I don't mind suggestions involving giving extra rewards/titles to doing it without the buff, but disabling the key achievements when it's on would be a step sideways in terms of accessibility.

I mean, it'd be okay if people that took the harder route should get their armor faster, but not to shut other people out.

 

If normal runs get buffed to make them more appealing than emboldened ones, then CMs would need an even bigger buff, and that's not something ANET does lightly.
To say nothing of whatever new content is in store for us in S6, which might make this whole convo age like milk.

I'm not out to slow people down and make leggy armor at a slower pace than me, that'd be silly. It's about recognizing people's efforts...in 5 months, there will be no distinction between a player in leggy gear that cleared every raid boss in normal mode, and one that cleared in Emboldened, and I think it's unfair to those like me who've done it in normal.
An achievement would already be something. A title, even better. Nothing wrong with adding a chance at prestige, especially to nudge those with training wheels to take them off.

Long story short, gosh by all means jump on board, get your leggy armor, it's comfy stuff. Let me have an achievement that says I haven't used training wheels, that's all. You get what I mean?

Edited June 23, 2022 by solvemprobler.4295

[Xerxez.7361]

9 minutes ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

 

If normal runs get buffed to make them more appealing than emboldened ones, then CMs would need an even bigger buff, and that's not something ANET does lightly.
To say nothing of whatever new content is in store for us in S6, which might make this whole convo age like milk.

I'm not out to slow people down and make leggy armor at a slower pace than me, that'd be silly. It's about recognizing people's efforts...in 5 months, there will be no distinction between a player in leggy gear that cleared every raid boss in normal mode, and one that cleared in Emboldened, and I think it's unfair to those like me who've done it in normal.
An achievement would already be something. A title, even better. Nothing wrong with adding a chance at prestige, especially to nudge those with training wheels to take them off.

Long story short, gosh by all means jump on board, get your leggy armor, it's comfy stuff. Let me have an achievement that says I haven't used training wheels, that's all. You get what I mean?

 

There's already an achievement for that. The Challenge Modes these are the fights with all the training wheels taken off. From how originally the Challenge Modes bled into Normal Mode through bugs its clear they were the original concept and Normal Mode was training wheels added. The hardest part of Raids isn't the mechanics its getting a group of players together who know the mechanics.

 

Certain Fights the Emboldened will hardly make a difference. Higher HP and Damage won't save you from missing a Dhuum Green after all.

Don't forget to check out Raid Academy Discord if you want to start Raiding they offer Training of any boss you would like to try everyday!

Edited June 23, 2022 by Xerxez.7361

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Does this mean those players that completed World Map Completion before the change that removed WvW maps should get a special Title, as well? 

[solvemprobler.4295]

32 minutes ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

 

There's already an achievement for that. The Challenge Modes these are the fights with all the training wheels taken off. From how originally the Challenge Modes bled into Normal Mode through bugs its clear they were the original concept and Normal Mode was training wheels added. The hardest part of Raids isn't the mechanics its getting a group of players together who know the mechanics.

 

Certain Fights the Emboldened will hardly make a difference. Higher HP and Damage won't save you from missing a Dhuum Green after all.

Don't forget to check out Raid Academy Discord if you want to start Raiding they offer Training of any boss you would like to try everyday!

You seem to have misunderstood entirely what I'm trying to say here. I endorse Emboldened mode for making mechanics easier to learn. I'm saying normal mode players who've been raiding for the last few years will get no recognition for doing so compared to those who'll clear wings with emboldened mode.
There are no achievements for normal mode that emboldened mode won't have, right now. CMs have their own.
 

[solvemprobler.4295]

45 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Does this mean those players that completed World Map Completion before the change that removed WvW maps should get a special Title, as well? 

Is there a seriously good reason as to why they shouldn't?!

Edited June 23, 2022 by solvemprobler.4295

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Much luck on both suggestions.  (Probably won't happen as it has been years since the World Map Completion change.)  Still, much luck on all suggestions to give Titles for QoL/other changes that have made content/mechanics/uses easier over the 9+ years. 

[Jovan.1804]

This is going to be replying to quite a few of the above comments, so please bear with me. 

1 hour ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

You clear with Emboldened, get your 2g, your LI, a pat on the back and a "do the same with a bit of pink gear, in a longer fight, and you'll get the achievement!"
Because mechanics would be the same.

This right here is assuming that people won't come back and clear them "legitimately" in the next week or so, because they don't want to wait 42 weeks for their full set of armor. Why does it matter if the drop comes from Emboldened run #1 vs "legit" run #4? Because as I said before, a single wing grants the buff per week and it rotates. 

 

1 hour ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

The need to make raiding and leggy pve armor more accessible to players can coexist with the satisfaction that comes with having cleared achievements without training wheels, for those interested in it...with a simple title/achievement. I have nothing to show for it, and that's why my time feels invalidated.

So what about all the folks that got their armor via raid sellers already? They have their "normal clears" that you seem so attached to while they were likely dead on the ground for a majority of the time. These individuals are already invalidating your achievement, so I don't see where anything really changes. If it's just for the vanity, you are already indistinguishable from someone that "didn't do it legit". Heck, even CMs are bought and sold.  From an outside perspective, it looks like your argument is exclusively because you won't be able to show off anything anymore...which, that's frankly a you problem. Other peoples' achievements do not reduce your own. You aren't going to wake up and have your legendary armor removed. 

 

1 hour ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

I am all for more people joining raids, and having an easier time learning, and seeing a fight through the end. Saying people should take longer than me to make leggy armor would be a stupid argument, it's not at all what I'm saying.

Except this is exactly what you're advocating for. Turning off the achievement randomly on the week that it comes up removes agency from the player. Someone already has Spirit Threads 1-4. Wing 1 is the Emboldened wing for the week. Because Emboldened applies on entering the wing, now they have to wait an additional week for their 5th thread. 

1 hour ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

It's about recognizing people's efforts...in 5 months, there will be no distinction between a player in leggy gear that cleared every raid boss in normal mode, and one that cleared in Emboldened, and I think it's unfair to those like me who've done it in normal.

Except in your example, 5 months time for someone exclusively doing the Emboldened wing each month will almost but not quite have 3 pieces of armor. So that alone will distinguish you from someone doing Emboldened clears. If you're really worried about it that much, it will take 10.5 months for one set of armor, an additional 10.5 for Coalescence, and then a whopping 21 months for each additional set. If someone's spending over 5 years to finish it up, why are you making such a fuss about it? Oh, and the above comments about raid selling already removing the prestige of it all still apply here, too. 

 

At the end of the day it's a video game. People play to have fun. Maybe the answer is to stop worrying so much about what other people think about fancy armor and using it to boost yourself up and try being proud for accomplishing it and undoubtedly having fun stories to tell about the journey to get there. 

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

 

If normal runs get buffed to make them more appealing than emboldened ones, then CMs would need an even bigger buff, and that's not something ANET does lightly.
To say nothing of whatever new content is in store for us in S6, which might make this whole convo age like milk.

I'm not out to slow people down and make leggy armor at a slower pace than me, that'd be silly. It's about recognizing people's efforts...in 5 months, there will be no distinction between a player in leggy gear that cleared every raid boss in normal mode, and one that cleared in Emboldened, and I think it's unfair to those like me who've done it in normal.
An achievement would already be something. A title, even better. Nothing wrong with adding a chance at prestige, especially to nudge those with training wheels to take them off.

Long story short, gosh by all means jump on board, get your leggy armor, it's comfy stuff. Let me have an achievement that says I haven't used training wheels, that's all. You get what I mean?

I think you are truly overestimating how many people are going to go for legendary armor even, considering it's a very large investment regardless. There will be more people getting it, but there is certainly not "in 5 months there will be no distinction...."

And why shouldn't we reward people for doing CMs anyways?

As for prestiege, *shrugs*. I don't think many people spend that much time checking out people's armor, and I skin over my legendary armor most of the time anyways.

Edited June 23, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Chichimec.9364]

24 minutes ago, Jovan.1804 said:

...Maybe the answer is to stop worrying so much about what other people think about fancy armor and using it to boost yourself up and try being proud for accomplishing it and undoubtedly having fun stories to tell about the journey to get there. 

I very much agree with this whole post, especially the last part, quoted here. Personally, I am not impressed by other people's titles, flashy armor/weapons or whatever because I don't pay that much attention to their titles or any of the rest of their stuff. After four and half years in Tyria, I couldn't even tell you what raid leggy armor looks like. Nor do I expect people to be impressed by my stuff. I have all three sets of leggy armor but the only thing that demonstrates is the amount  of time I've spent in WvW. No one else can tell I have that leggy armor because I either transmute it or wear an outfit over it, depending on the look I like for a given alt. The same thing with titles. I don't use them to try to impress others. Instead, I give each alt the title that seems to suit them. I don't play GW2 to impress other people, I play it for the fun I get out of it. And for me, that has nothing to do with "prestige" or "impressing" people I don't know.

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Chichimec.9364

[Rogue.8235]

Why is it so important that other players don't have what you have (speaking to anyone that is advocating for positional goods).

It shouldn't matter what other players do or don't have, because it doesn't affect you.  That players can get legendary armor, at a much slower pace, with a bit of help from emboldened doesn't affect anyone that already has legendary armor.  The only reason to want to bar emboldened players from getting legendary armor is purely because you vale what you have based on the number of people who don't have it.  

 

As for equity,I do not see how it is unfair to players who already have legendaries from raids that others can get their legendaries after the patch.  What you have is yours, you've had it for a while, and no one can take it away from you.  Also, other people having legendaries has absolutely zero effect on you having legendaries. 

For those who want to argue equity in the context of cost equivalencies, there isn't an argument there either.  If a product becomes cheaper over time, it does not diminish what you already have.  The one exception to this isa positional good.  The value of positional goods is based on how many people don't have it.  To this, I ask: why should legendary armor be a positional good?  Why is it valued because others don't have it?  

 

In sum, the change with the embolden mechanic has zero effect on people who have all the shinies from raiding already.  

 

[solvemprobler.4295]

36 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

I think you are truly overestimating how many people are going to go for legendary armor even, considering it's a very large investment regardless. There will be more people getting it, but there is certainly not "in 5 months there will be no distinction...."

And why shouldn't we reward people for doing CMs anyways?

As for prestiege, *shrugs*. I don't think many people spend that much time checking out people's armor, and I skin over my legendary armor most of the time anyways.

Of 15+ answers it feels like maybe 3 understood what I'm trying to say and gave honest opinions, and it's tilting me so hard xD
Where did I say "I don't think CMs shouldn't be rewarded"?
I said ANET has a hard time increasing rewards.
And yes, we are talking about the kind of player that's interested in leggy gear, whether that's 1% of the playerbase or 30%, I think that's entirely beside the point. I'm not at all referring to the amount of people about to start that project, 'cause it has no impact on the points I'm trying to make...

Ultimately, I guess it's on me for having used the word prestige, it seems to rile people up easily.

I transmute my leggies too.

[solvemprobler.4295]

10 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

Why is it so important that other players don't have what you have (speaking to anyone that is advocating for positional goods).

It shouldn't matter what other players do or don't have, because it doesn't affect you.  That players can get legendary armor, at a much slower pace, with a bit of help from emboldened doesn't affect anyone that already has legendary armor.  The only reason to want to bar emboldened players from getting legendary armor is purely because you vale what you have based on the number of people who don't have it.  

 

As for equity,I do not see how it is unfair to players who already have legendaries from raids that others can get their legendaries after the patch.  What you have is yours, you've had it for a while, and no one can take it away from you.  Also, other people having legendaries has absolutely zero effect on you having legendaries. 

For those who want to argue equity in the context of cost equivalencies, there isn't an argument there either.  If a product becomes cheaper over time, it does not diminish what you already have.  The one exception to this isa positional good.  The value of positional goods is based on how many people don't have it.  To this, I ask: why should legendary armor be a positional good?  Why is it valued because others don't have it?  

 

In sum, the change with the embolden mechanic has zero effect on people who have all the shinies from raiding already.  

 

It's not the if, it's the how. "How" changes after the 28th, can we agree on that at least?
I will say that I don't care if people get leggy gear, I'm happy for them, it's nice to have. I've said it the last time, I'm fed up, every comment is like "you don't want people to get it?!"
Ideally, I'd like people to go through what I have gone through, which is challenging content that makes the achievement nicer to get, with the additional help of the emboldened runs to learn mechanics.

Now, given that the update is coming and there's no changing that, does it sound so crazy to ask for an achievement to validate my efforts, compared to the effort of a training wheel run? Honestly, I don't think so.