Thoughts on Emboldened Boon, and suggestions

[Lottie.5370]

I mean they already said they would disable it on CMs & titles (like golden slubling), so I only see it as a good thing.

 

If it's the only way people can get into raids/complete raids, they're getting what... 3 or 4 li a week? I don't think that is invalidating anyone that put a lot of hard work into getting into raids before. It's a stepping stone to get comfy with the bosses and mechanics, until you get to a point where you are able to clear it without the buff.

 

If it gets more players into raids, then great!

[phantom.1675]

16 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I never said I was against emboldened. I suppose I could turn that around and ask why you are opposed to someone receiving a title to compensate for having an aspect of the reward they already earned removed?

A title to show that one made their set without the emboldened buff is not the same as CM .

Should the title be a timestamp of when you got it - so that everyone that did it before you can similarly claim they did it before the power creep of xpacs etc?

 

Somone that kills VG on their second pull with emboldened could have "done more" than someone who just lied there dead after paying the group for the kill.

 

I don't disagree there are different levels of effort and "achievement" but whether or not someone did it with/without emboldened is not going to tell the story you are looking for.

 

 

[Ashen.2907]

9 minutes ago, phantom.1675 said:

Should the title be a timestamp of when you got it - so that everyone that did it before you can similarly claim they did it before the power creep of xpacs etc?

 

Somone that kills VG on their second pull with emboldened could have "done more" than someone who just lied there dead after paying the group for the kill.

 

I don't disagree there are different levels of effort and "achievement" but whether or not someone did it with/without emboldened is not going to tell the story you are looking for.

 

 

Yeah, paid runs muddy the waters, I get it, but I dont see a way to address that while I do see a way, before it launches, to address the request Ive been supporting. Ultimately I dont believe that an inability to change the issues of the past means that we shouldnt try to identify and head off potential future issues. 

[Erick Alastor.3917]

I got what I wanted to get from raid with a lot of patience and I care nothing that now ppl will be able to get the same for less effort.
On the contrary I'm happy they won't have to suffer the way I did.
This is a great change for the community.

[Rogue.8235]

17 hours ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

Now, given that the update is coming and there's no changing that, does it sound so crazy to ask for an achievement to validate my efforts, compared to the effort of a training wheel run? Honestly, I don't think so.

 

I thought the announcement stated that there are some achievements that cannot be obtained with emboldened mode.

I haven't looked at all the raid achievements, so are all the raid wings covered with this?  As in, there's achievements that are precluded from emboldened mode for every raid wing?  If not, then agree with the above.

 

 

[Castillan.4259]

Can someone please provide a link to the source for these changes?  I don't seem to be able to find it

[Nakasz.5471]

5 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

I thought the announcement stated that there are some achievements that cannot be obtained with emboldened mode.

I haven't looked at all the raid achievements, so are all the raid wings covered with this?  As in, there's achievements that are precluded from emboldened mode for every raid wing?  If not, then agree with the above.

 

 

Some achievements cannot be obtained in emboldened mode. I think this is ok.
What cannot be done is to remove the LI reward or remove the possibility of making Envoy Collection achievements in the emboldened raid because that would be the main reason that could attract new players to the raid

4 minutes ago, Castillan.4259 said:

Can someone please provide a link to the source for these changes?  I don't seem to be able to find it

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/arenanet-studio-update-june-2022/

[Rogue.8235]

6 minutes ago, Castillan.4259 said:

Can someone please provide a link to the source for these changes?  I don't seem to be able to find it

 

In the announcements page. Link will send you straight to the section concerning raid accessibility.

 

*shakes tiny fist at @Nakasz.5471.  Beat me by milliseconds.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Rogue.8235
shaking tiny fist

[solvemprobler.4295]

5 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

I think what most disagree with is:
Should Emboldened allow you to learn a raid wing on easy mode?
or
Should Emboldened allow you to get easy raid rewards? 
or
both?

To sum it up, I think Emboldened should allow you to learn mechanics, but with achievements turned off, period. ANET wants people to get leggy armor on easy mode? Fine, then don't gut the value of said achievements cleared throughout the last 7 years. It's valid to not feel like you're influenced by the change, but it's not a good enough reason to say the change is ok because you're not part of it.

[solvemprobler.4295]

24 minutes ago, Erick Alastor.3917 said:

I got what I wanted to get from raid with a lot of patience and I care nothing that now ppl will be able to get the same for less effort.
On the contrary I'm happy they won't have to suffer the way I did.
This is a great change for the community.

That's valid, as long as you can acknowledge that some don't find it a chore to suffer through, but rather, raids attract the very kind of players interested in them enough to push through the barriers raiding currently has (finding a group etc)

[solvemprobler.4295]

1 hour ago, Lottie.5370 said:

I mean they already said they would disable it on CMs & titles (like golden slubling), so I only see it as a good thing.

 

If it's the only way people can get into raids/complete raids, they're getting what... 3 or 4 li a week? I don't think that is invalidating anyone that put a lot of hard work into getting into raids before. It's a stepping stone to get comfy with the bosses and mechanics, until you get to a point where you are able to clear it without the buff.

 

If it gets more players into raids, then great!

CMs are not mentioned at all in the original post.
I agree, it's a good thing, but there aren't just titles to it so it leads me to believe ANET has an interest in making legendary armor more accessible.

Again, It's not about "how much more LI people will get for free with Emboldened runs", it's about the achievements becoming far easier to clear all of a sudden

[solvemprobler.4295]

5 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Notice that what is be8ng requested is that someone who earned the armor before the process is made easier be allowed a simple token (an achievement or title) to show for that effort, not that others be discouraged from trying raids.

Genuinely happy to see someone gets what I'm trying to say.
The vast majority seem convinced I'm against Emboldened runs, or new players trying raids, or raids getting easier.

[solvemprobler.4295]

36 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

I thought the announcement stated that there are some achievements that cannot be obtained with emboldened mode.

I haven't looked at all the raid achievements, so are all the raid wings covered with this?  As in, there's achievements that are precluded from emboldened mode for every raid wing?  If not, then agree with the above.

 

 

Unless they omitted listing every single achievement that's off limits to Emboldened runs to avoid making the post too long, which is possible...there's quite a bunch of achievements, at least one per raid boss give or take, that would be easier to get.

Take Sabetha's "Last Cannon", which is about leaving 1 cannon up for the whole fight, and then clear. I imagine it'd be easy peasy with a 50% damage increase.
 

[solvemprobler.4295]

2 hours ago, Ascency.3580 said:

keep in mind that the effect will be up for one wing each week, from what was said in the blog. thats not gonna make ppl run in legendary armors in a few days. u would grow old trying to get the lege by farming emboldened. it will however help ppl get into raids and show that they're not impossible to beat, and make more ppl actually try out raids. ppl will still need to learn the mechs and do all wings if they want the get the armor in one lifetime. making the curve less steep does not invalidate your experience imo.

also i cant really find a way to exploit this in any meaningful way. even with those buffs, and even if u could stack the buff by simply pulling the boss and /gging u still need to defeat it, still do the mechs, and still keep it relatively short in order to make it worth it. so u still need a group, and ppl need to do the very minimum of at least not watching netflix on second screen. what this system will not do is allow ppl to get free money. what it will do is encourage ppl to try out raids and help them realise they're not impossible.

also the game gets easier with each patch pretty much. look at ppl who were the first to kill tequatl or whatnot. now its a joke. if your looking to show off your acomplishments in the game, gw2 just isnt designed to allow this really. all the christmas tree ppl using all the infusions just show off how rich they are, but its invalidated by the fact u can buy the infusions.

As I've had to underline for countless times, I'm not crying bloody murder because "now people will get LI fast and easy".
I couldn't care less how fast people get their leggy armor, as some have pointed out, raids being sold muddies the waters already.

I am surprised at the fact that you mention a 50% buff to health, dps and healing power isn't something you can exploit. Yes, obviously, you can't straight up ignore 1 shot mechanics. It's so obvious it isn't worth talking about.
Some mechanics are already out-dps'd in raids, I would argue a 50% damage increase could make people capitalize on that trend.

Your last paragraph is probably the most fair. Yes, Guild Wars 2 isn't the kind of game that's willing to throw you a bone if it means keeping content rewarding only for a niche part of the community.

[solvemprobler.4295]

44 minutes ago, Nakasz.5471 said:

What cannot be done is to remove the LI reward or remove the possibility of making Envoy Collection achievements in the emboldened raid because that would be the main reason that could attract new players to the raid

I strongly disagree.
Players could be attracted to raids for a variety of different reasons. To give you a personal example, I was initially attracted by the raw 2g and I still am (am poor as heck).
Some could want in because their friends do it, and they want to be part of the group. Some could want to try to feel like they've tapped into every aspect of this game, or every major game mode this mmo has to offer, or that they've cleared every boss the game has thrown at us these years. I could go on for ages.

Training wheels should be just that..for training. Take them off, and go get some leggy armor. Before you tell me it already takes ages for Emboldened runs to give you the required amount of LI for a set, yes, that's factually correct and entirely beside the point, as I've never mentioned people will or should stick to Emboldened runs forever, or that Emboldened runs will make LI worthless, or any of that nonsense.

"Cannot be done" is a very big statement with no foundation IMO. ANET is a bunch of people (and shareholders, it's fair to say) like you and me, sitting at a table making entirely arbitrary decisions. It cannot be done, until they go ahead and do it.

[Erick Alastor.3917]

54 minutes ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

That's valid, as long as you can acknowledge that some don't find it a chore to suffer through, but rather, raids attract the very kind of players interested in them enough to push through the barriers raiding currently has (finding a group etc)

Obviously, and this way the pool of people experiencing raids will grow, some will still hate them and get over with them faster or without having to buy them (because let's be honest many people simply buy the runs), some will stay (way more than we used to have) and once they'll improve the raid community will be healtier.

edit: I don't dislike raids, I disliked the process leading to be part of that content.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Erick Alastor.3917

[Lottie.5370]

2 hours ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

CMs are not mentioned at all in the original post.
I agree, it's a good thing, but there aren't just titles to it so it leads me to believe ANET has an interest in making legendary armor more accessible.

Again, It's not about "how much more LI people will get for free with Emboldened runs", it's about the achievements becoming far easier to clear all of a sudden

 

Did you read the original post?

 

" For one, the Emboldened system will be disabled when any challenge mode is activated."

There you go.

[solvemprobler.4295]

32 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

 

Did you read the original post?

 

" For one, the Emboldened system will be disabled when any challenge mode is activated."

There you go.

I meant my original post. I've never talked about CMs. I have never done CMs, and regardless of that, as you said above, ANET has separated CMs from the Emboldened system, so since they're not hit in the slightest by the boon, I fail to understand how it's a relevant topic of discussion.

[Lottie.5370]

7 minutes ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

I meant my original post. I've never talked about CMs. I have never done CMs, and regardless of that, as you said above, ANET has separated CMs from the Emboldened system, so since they're not hit in the slightest by the boon, I fail to understand how it's a relevant topic of discussion.

 

They are achievements, you are upset that the achievements are easy all of a sudden.

 

Making things more accessible for others doesn't take anything away from you. They are not making it so that someone new to raids can just power through every wing, get all achis and finish their legendary armour in 6 weeks. Nothing is being taken away from you.

 

I have 5k li over both accounts, I don't feel like anything has been devalued, I am just happy that more people will try raids and get into them, because that means more people to play with.

[solvemprobler.4295]

2 hours ago, Lottie.5370 said:

 

They are achievements, you are upset that the achievements are easy all of a sudden.

Yes...and no.
I am upset that the achievements I've been through will be easier as of the 28th of this month.
I have a feeling you said it with negative undertones, which simply shows we see it differently, and that's fine.

2 hours ago, Lottie.5370 said:

They are not making it so that someone new to raids can just power through every wing, get all achis and finish their legendary armour in 6 weeks. Nothing is being taken away from you.

 

I have 5k li over both accounts, I don't feel like anything has been devalued, I am just happy that more people will try raids and get into them, because that means more people to play with.

For the love of all that is holy, and hopefully I'll have to explain this for the last time, I am not talking about how quickly or slowly LI will be given out. At all. It's never been mentioned. 4 out of 5 people in this comment section write their answers convinced that I want people to take as long as I have to grind leggy armor, and I'm honestly fed up with it.
Would I encourage people do normal mode? Yes, I believe normal mode will be more engaging than playing with training wheels...but I don't think that should be enforced. Moving on.

I have nothing against you and the fact that you've amassed a very large amount of LI, and most of all that you don't feel like your time/effort won't be devalued by the update, but "you shouldn't feel that way because I don't feel that way" is a very poor argument.
I am compelled to underline that if specific achievements stay ON during an Emboldened Boon run, that will devalue the Envoy/Coalescence achievements, as they will be easier to go through. You don't need to agree with this, because it's a fact. 50% more damage, health and healing power make raids easier, period. It's a great thing for people to learn raid mechanics, but not so great when it leads to the same results as all the people that have been raiding for the last 7 years.
"Yeah but it takes longer"...that's a fact as well, but beside the point.

I too am happy more people will try raids.

Edited June 24, 2022 by solvemprobler.4295

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Some players feel fortunate that ArenaNet  listens to the playerbase and adjusts content requirements/mechanics.  The Skyscale and Heart of Thorns comes to mind, among many other instances.  Both were made easier to complete;  I suppose some would wish for  special title/achievements for having completed them during different stages of adjustments. 

Sure, give out 'special' titles...there are so many titles now that most are indistinguishable that a few more won't hurt. 

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Lottie.5370 said:

 you are upset that the achievements are easy all of a sudden.

That is not what he said.

[Rogue.8235]

 

7 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

2 hours ago, Lottie.5370 said:

 you are upset that the achievements are easy all of a sudden.

That is not what he said.

 

Correction:

1 hour ago, solvemprobler.4295 said:

Yes.
I am upset that the achievements I've been through will be easier as of the 28th of this month.

 

 

Edit: As for achievements becoming easier... I really don't see why it matters.  Why is an achievement only valuable if no one else has it?   You know you got it the hard way.  Why is it important that other people must know that you got it the hard way?  Seems vain.

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Rogue.8235

[Astralporing.1957]

7 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

It absolutely did. Part of the reward were rare, and prestigious, armor skin sets that symbolized completing the content at its normal difficulty. Removing that aspect of the reward is what could be readily replaced with a title that represents what the armor did.

Well, pray tell me then how your example is any different from mine?

Any change that impacts the overall difficulty and effort required is subject to the very same consideration. Whether it's the Emboldened buff, balance changes, power creep, raid community getting more experienced, allowing new players access to stuff like good raid guides, traiing guilds (or just better quality of potential squad mates) or even stuff like more raid tokens now being acquirable per week due to there being more wings (as well as additional LI from EoD strikes). We can't just single one and say this one counts, but other for some reason do not.

The truth is, OP is already having it easier than the players that were doing those achieves when the content was current. For some reason he does not seem concerned with that at all. All he cares about is that some other players in the future may have it easier than he did.

Edited June 24, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[solvemprobler.4295]

17 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

 

Correction:

 

 

Edit: As for achievements becoming easier... I really don't see why it matters.  Why is an achievement only valuable if no one else has it?   You know you got it the hard way.  Why is it important that other people must know that you got it the hard way?  Seems vain.

 

Yes, in a way I'm saying you're right. I'm annoyed that the achievement is easier, but since being annoyed isn't going to change a thing, I'm suggesting an achievement to show myself on my achievement tab that I've killed all raid bosses before the game would introduce a boon to do just that with a 50% damage increase.
Let's try with an example:
let's pretend that on the 28th, the Treasure Hunter achievement doesn't require you to try your luck at specific champions across Tyria (or spending 300g on TP to buy a wooden rabbit), but instead needs you to go around Tyria and buy 3k karma worth of trinkets from Heart vendors, much like the Koutaophile achievement. Anyone that has done it before will get no recognition for having cleared it the normal way.

Wouldn't you agree that more than some of those people would be annoyed at the news?
Now, you could say the Treasure Hunter achievement doesn't come close to awarding the same amount of QoL and riches as a chest in your home instance, but I'm hoping you can see beside this to understand what I'm trying to say.

Edited June 24, 2022 by solvemprobler.4295