Follow up to the June 28 Balance Update Preview

[Kasumi.8532]

That wall of text can be summarised to "We are sorry that you are angry". Clear direction my kitten. Nothing but hollow words as we've seen with you guys time and time again that you spit on any feedback. If you actually listened we wouldn't even have gotten half of these specs as people wanted something completely different. Ele, thief, warrior, ranger (maybe also engi). Not to mention ele got its third kittening melee spec while being the squishiest class and gets its ranged weapons nerfed almost every balance patch. Then we have recycled animations on new specs. New weapons like spear on land for a single class wouldn't have been a problem either. Spear could've worked on warrior (Lancer) or guardian (Dragoon). There were enough fan concepts with feedback on the GW2 subreddit. There was enough feedback during the beta. Most specs weren't changed from the beta when the expac was released, Catalyst for example was the same clunky mess as in the beta.

Balance has been garbage for the past 4 years now and it won't get any better until management gets their kitten together and actually leads with a plan.

People have told you time and time again to nerf the boon spam as it has become too much. What did we get? More boon spam and nerf to boonrips in WvW. Also because one of your people likes to play favourites with his class, he even admitted it. WvW, one of the cornerstones of the game. Cornerstone probably because it's lying somewhere in a corner, forgotten.

And then we have that secret discord chat which reminds me of Overwatch. They also had one which is the reason why the game is such a bad state.

 

I've honestly had enough of this bullcrap. Time to go back to FF14. I usually don't like subscription games but that one looks like it's at least worth my money. Especially after they turned everything around after that colossal failure at the beginning. You could learn a thing or two from them.

[Loke.1429]

20 hours ago, melodyspectrum.2980 said:

 

Whut? Scrapper needs buffs not nerfs. It's dead in engame pve rn. Aren't you also only looking at wvw as you're suggesting the devs do?

"in the modes they are so broken in" <- i wrote that because I know all of them are not broken everywhere. So as not to troll. A fair troll here would be: Yeah definitely, shut down pve, all development into wvw.

[rsegames.3916]

Well, went without expectations on this patch...

And that's it, what was said that would be bad was confirmed, laughing at my friend who was 100% copium with all this bs asking to me to have some faith.

Having the time of my life scorning and humiliating him now.
"But you cant do that" you may say...
Not only i can but I'm still doing, you probably should have said that "You shouldn't do that", but them again, im quite fine being despicable.

[Ascency.3580]

just watched a few vids of new builds in practice. its clear at this point that the "vision" they have of the game is of it rotting in the dirt.

that being said i refuse to belive that the "balance team" has autonomy over those changes. someone had to greenlight them. 

if it was down to the balance team alone someone would get fired at this point, and the patch would get postponed.

however if the balance team does have  this level of autonomy, that means that someone high in the food chain of anet is part of that team, and that would explain why theres this much unchecked bias in those patches. 

unless its like the ceo or we you should maybe try to identify hes motives since this is devestating to the game.

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, Valdel.7325 said:

Toxic Fandom as presented by companies, this is an interesting look.

The Truth About "Toxic Fandoms" - YouTube

The Drinker is one of my favorite youtubers. Great combination of insight and humor.

[Devas.8104]

At least revert the uncalled for death perception nerf, then we can talk.

[Judge Dread.9078]

@Josh Davis.7865 Granted death threats are inexcusable period. But as far as the patch posts mention of firing employees. That is valid. I don’t know who is screwing things up but my instinct firstly points to whomever is looking at the patch then the massive backlash against it, and then still goes “This is fine.” There is incompetence somewhere that needs to either be rooted out or otherwise course corrected. This can’t keep happening. This patch is buggy as hell and actually game breaking in some instance. Never mind the issues with the class changes themselves. This cannot go on. Balance is a joke. For the average player that keeps track of this sort of thing, every time we hear about an upcoming balance patch, the first thought is. “Oh boy, here we go? What’s arenanet gonna break this time?” You guys either need to get like 50x better at communication long before a patch like this gets released, or you need to open up a public test server. Cause it’s obvious to anyone who pays attention that you guys don’t test anything before release. At least not thoroughly enough to root out even common and large bugs more often. Either that, or maybe you guys do rigorous testing, but then whomever is green lighting this still goes. “This is fine.” Meanwhile the room around him is on fire. Or maybe it’s an issue with the suits and ties forcing this stuff to be greenlit despite glaring issues. Guild Wars is my favorite MMO, and fight me on this. Objectively one of the best out there. Don’t ruin this. Don’t get blinded by greed or pride. And surely don’t get complacent.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Judge Dread.9078

[Lion.6590]

I feel like balance changes should be tested together with the players, this would give us much more earlier previews of the changes and a actual feel of the gameplay because there is only so much feedback that we can provide by reading some text. I don't know how your QA process works, but I certainly believe that having players together in the process would be more interesting for everyone. Other games do that with public test servers and I see no reason why Arenanet shouldn't be doing that with GW2, especially with balance updates which can lead to the situation we are right now, we got a bad balance patch and we are stuck with it for weeks, months probably.

[ClawfingerPL.5263]

On 6/27/2022 at 9:36 PM, ClawfingerPL.5263 said:

While the sentiment is great and appreciated, it's counterproductive to give acknowledgement to people who resort to this. It will motivate them further to do these things because they know they are heard.

What a buggy mess of a patch. As I said in previous reply, the sentiment regarding death threats is somewhat appreciated but counterproductive, what's not appreciated is throwing death threats into one bag with voices to fire people responsible for this patch. It looks like looking for sympathy points or a really bad and honestly messed up cover up. People are perfectly valid in voicing their concerns regarding team responsible for balance (even more so considering the leaks) and many did in non-violent and non-volatile way. Of course there were bad apples but throwing it all into one bag and regarding it as toxicity is quite honestly pitiful.
This whole thing and the follow-up reads like corpo vomit.

[Shadows Creed.3902]

The pure reality of this post is that every 2 years or so whoever is leading ANET at the time posts up a message about how they are off what the players are asking and will do a better job on it.  Look back when Colin first left post HOT, MO literally did  an exact same post.  They then did a few polls etc and it tied out pretty quick.

 

I think it is pretty impressive to get this many posts in such a short time, the last time this happened was when EOD came out with the siege turtle mount and the meta which was claimed to be fine but ultimately it wasn't.   (check prior posts literally calling out that when they wanna sell the skins they will put in a way to get it faster) which they literally put the NPC in same day as announcement of first skin.

 

I think it is bad form though to claim you played for a few years to then implement what and how ya did.  Not everything is bad but the banner and spirit changes... You would think how they are now is what you were changing off of, not changing to.   Overall it is pretty disappointing on how consistently off the mark things seem to be in every game mode.   Directionless is an understatement.  

 

With inflation up you would think that there would be more focus on how to offer reasons to spend in game vs getting the player base to care enough to login and post on a forum Anet has a terrible rep on responding and more of a rep of censuring.  Hard to imagine this won't start to have an adverse affect on sales. 

 

[Nennius.9627]

21 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Hey folks - I've been in and out of meetings today, apologies for delay. Here's some responses to questions I've seen repeated a few times:

 

Q: Why aren't you holding the update?

This was discussed. The simple answer is that “holding the balance changes” is not feasible from a technical standpoint. We have a very sophisticated dev environment that gives us a lot of flexibility in areas like this, but we're well beyond that point. Now that the build is finalized and nearly ready for activation, unwinding the code and content changes in the June 28 balance update would be a significant and time-intensive effort that would likely result in a multi-week delay of not only the skills content, but also everything else in the release (new Challenge Mode, Core Updates, Mordremoth legendary, etc). Once all the right changes were stripped from the build, we’d need to QA those skills to verify they work as before, and we’d need to QA the rest of the release again to make sure that nothing was inadvertently broken in the process. We usually give QA 1-2 weeks to test a ‘finalized’ build, for reference. This would have a cascading impact on future releases (meaning things like LWS1E3 would also get pushed back).

I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but the least disruptive option is to push the release and address issues in future builds.

Q: There's nothing concrete in this post, what are you doing to fix this?

I get wordy sometimes. Here’s a bullet point list of next steps:

•  The skills and balance team is drafting ‘design notes’ for the June 28 release. We’ll publish these as soon as we can. I don’t expect that you’ll agree with all of it – especially from the conversation we’ve been monitoring – but we owe you the explanations.
• I’m going to own resolving the internal process issue that prevented us from including the design notes upfront.
•  In the coming months, we’re going to publish a blog post that details the balance philosophy for Guild Wars 2.
•  I recognize that the way feedback is collected for balance updates is far from ideal. We need to preview updates earlier so we’re never in this situation again, and we need to solve for how we go about getting balance feedback from qualified individuals. Eliminate the unofficial backchannels. I’m going to own finding the right solution for this.
•  We added a follow up balance update in the coming weeks to our schedule.

I'll note that the post this morning was done at 11:30a on a Monday. We moved quickly and we don't have all of the answers yet.

Q: Why aren't you posting the balance philosophy today? Doesn't it exist?

The philosophy driving profession design and balance has changed a few times over the years, even by the ‘original developers’ of the days of yore. Elite specializations weren’t a part of the game’s original vision, for example. I considered getting a version of this posted in response to this weekend’s discussions, but on further reflection, I came to the conclusion that Cameron Rich taking over as the Lead Systems Designer (which Skills/Balance ultimately falls under) is a great opportunity for us to revisit the discussion internally before making a public statement. Cam brings a lot of great perspective to this area from his experience as the Lead Encounters Designer for GW2. We also recently had Floyd Grubb join the WvW team - and we'd like to have him involved there as well.

 

Q: A balance team was just created after End of Dragons? Why wasn't there a balance team before?

I'd like to clarify my comment. Guild Wars 2 has had a balance team in the past, no doubt. For End of Dragons, our professions designers were asked to turn their full attention towards building elite specializations, which ultimately meant that live balance updates were few and far between. As we were building our dev plans for post-End of Dragons, I felt very strongly that we needed to staff a full-time balance team that supports the live game, even as we're building future expansion content. We're trying to get to a place where we can hit a consistent cadence with the updates, even as other work is in flight.

i'm really curious about what the dev team goal is with how the classes and balance should be while we walk towards it. Taking uniqueness from classes to match the existing boons so that each class can fill each role their unique way is something i can definetly get behind. but my corcern is how. Guardian, engineer and necromancer are overpower, so do we weaken them to the point they are as clunky and inefective as the other are right now (probably not since that would take too much from the quality of diversity and end gameplay we have today) or do you make the other classes able to keep up with those 3? (but then, it seems to have a conflict in achieving this since you give something and take 2 others back in the end making it less viable)
 

After playing gw2 for years and never managing to make my mmorpg friends play it, while also having experienced other 20+ titles, i've been reflecting on how GW2 issues between contents in the game (endgame pve, open world pve, casual pve, wvw, spvp) what hurts the balance in wich ends with so much conflict, my conclusion is:

Guild wars 2 is a game with a GREAT design, but it was never designed to be this GREAT.

The open world build up with exploration, events, world bosses is great. wvw is great. structural competitive pvp is great, raids and progressive fractals is great, the story telling living seasons and expantions are great, the core design tho for the classes was never designed to achieve the actual greatness the game has today. guardian, engineer and necromancer probably are broken classes, because they are the core classes that allowed the game to progress, while the other ones have fundamental flaws that prevents the game from being balanced. they need to give up on the old view of the core classes, core trait lines and rework it to match the current state of the game. So each class will have their unique way to have multiple viable builds to play condi dps, power dps, range dps, melee, dps, great full support or hybrids. the depth and efficiency will depend on the gamemode and the player.
Example: Warrior
A warrior has basically to pick in between playing banners, signets, shouts, stances or active cc skills. rework on that. make it so that banners are apart from utility skills, so support/heal warriors can run shouts, tactics and banners, a full minstrel pvp/wvw warrior would have even more to do with banners plus shouts strips as a spellbreaker etc. a berserker diviner's warrior could play with banners and warhorn axe decapitate all the way as the current alac ren. maybe even a cele condi zerker banner warrior bow/sword/warhorn+shouts as the current condi quickbrand, a full optimal power high crit dps bladesworn. maybe you could do stances in the same way replacing banners giving passively its respective boon every 5 seconds with a static cooldown each time the warrior is on combat, running balanced stance would be great paired from signets since warrior has tons of animation locks.
if you guys wanna double down in making the other classes as good and viable as the broken 3, you guys should be open to rework the fundamental core of the classes to a more creative and flexible to match how great the gameplay is today compared to when it released in 2012. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Nennius.9627

[Burial.1958]

20 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Hey folks - I've been in and out of meetings today, apologies for delay. Here's some responses to questions I've seen repeated a few times:

 

Q: Why aren't you holding the update?

This was discussed. The simple answer is that “holding the balance changes” is not feasible from a technical standpoint. We have a very sophisticated dev environment that gives us a lot of flexibility in areas like this, but we're well beyond that point. Now that the build is finalized and nearly ready for activation, unwinding the code and content changes in the June 28 balance update would be a significant and time-intensive effort that would likely result in a multi-week delay of not only the skills content, but also everything else in the release (new Challenge Mode, Core Updates, Mordremoth legendary, etc). Once all the right changes were stripped from the build, we’d need to QA those skills to verify they work as before, and we’d need to QA the rest of the release again to make sure that nothing was inadvertently broken in the process. We usually give QA 1-2 weeks to test a ‘finalized’ build, for reference. This would have a cascading impact on future releases (meaning things like LWS1E3 would also get pushed back).

I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but the least disruptive option is to push the release and address issues in future builds.

 

Hello Groucheroooo !

One question about this. Why do you release balance patches then bundled with other content like here (Mordremoth Legys, CM HM etc). Why don't you release the balance patches stand alone? For me these things are always a tricky thing and if you can't move them then because of the other content, that's very bad.

That would be my feedback on it as well: Release the patch notes earlier and release the balance patch standalone and not bundled with other content.

 

For me, there does not need to be a huge thing of changes every Tuesday. Sometimes less is more and balance is an important & delicate aspect in a multiplayer game.

 

[SpellboundTutor.4257]

@Josh Davis.7865

 

This balance patch gave me sun poisoning irl. /s

But for real, people are really treating a single balance patch as far worse than anything Activision Blizzard has ever done. It's actually kind of amazing how far the hyperbole has actually gone with this. I'm genuinely shocked we haven't started accusing the patch of causing climate change all over the world of GW2 at this point.

Edited June 28, 2022 by SpellboundTutor.4257

[foxof.8752]

So, when are Anet going to put out the "design notes" ? or at all for the 28 June patch?
I think there will be riots if the so call "design notes" is not happening in near few days, when you not even put it out on the patch went live.

[foxof.8752]

16 minutes ago, SpellboundTutor.4257 said:

@Josh Davis.7865

 

This balance patch gave me sun poisoning irl. /s

But for real, people are really treating a single balance patch as far worse than anything Activision Blizzard has ever done. It's actually kind of amazing how far the hyperbole has actually gone with this. I'm genuinely shocked we haven't started accusing the patch of causing climate change all over the world of GW2 at this point.

Is that what you think, or the common sense of this is the final straw that broke the camel's back, especially for the Warrior main, that suffers for how many years now?
Even for the half baked banner changes, picking up banner having empty skill slots, you can only pick up one banner at a time and expect warrior to run back multiple times if you uses more than one banners.
See those empty slots? If any balance devs play warrior banners or test them at all, they would come up one simple idea that store the banner to the 1-4 empty slots to replant the multiple banners after pickup.

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by foxof.8752

[SugarJohnson.4596]

Oh and one more thing. You guys told us that you want to release preview patch notes so that YOU can adjust to OUR feedback accordingly before the patch drops. Now you tell us it is not possible to adjust the balance patch according to our feedback?

 

Does this seriously mean that all those years we provided feedback to you in hope you read one single line and adjust to it (what never happened anyways), all you have done is like… nothing? 

 

ANet, you give the impression to be deeply deeply wrong and never been slightly interested in delivering a high quality product that satisfies your loyal customers.

Edited June 28, 2022 by SugarJohnson.4596

[Gilosean.3805]

22 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Hey folks - I've been in and out of meetings today, apologies for delay. Here's some responses to questions I've seen repeated a few times:

 

Q: Why aren't you holding the update?

This was discussed. The simple answer is that “holding the balance changes” is not feasible from a technical standpoint. We have a very sophisticated dev environment that gives us a lot of flexibility in areas like this, but we're well beyond that point. Now that the build is finalized and nearly ready for activation, unwinding the code and content changes in the June 28 balance update would be a significant and time-intensive effort that would likely result in a multi-week delay of not only the skills content, but also everything else in the release (new Challenge Mode, Core Updates, Mordremoth legendary, etc). Once all the right changes were stripped from the build, we’d need to QA those skills to verify they work as before, and we’d need to QA the rest of the release again to make sure that nothing was inadvertently broken in the process. We usually give QA 1-2 weeks to test a ‘finalized’ build, for reference. This would have a cascading impact on future releases (meaning things like LWS1E3 would also get pushed back).

I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but the least disruptive option is to push the release and address issues in future builds.

Q: There's nothing concrete in this post, what are you doing to fix this?

I get wordy sometimes. Here’s a bullet point list of next steps:

•  The skills and balance team is drafting ‘design notes’ for the June 28 release. We’ll publish these as soon as we can. I don’t expect that you’ll agree with all of it – especially from the conversation we’ve been monitoring – but we owe you the explanations.
• I’m going to own resolving the internal process issue that prevented us from including the design notes upfront.
•  In the coming months, we’re going to publish a blog post that details the balance philosophy for Guild Wars 2.
•  I recognize that the way feedback is collected for balance updates is far from ideal. We need to preview updates earlier so we’re never in this situation again, and we need to solve for how we go about getting balance feedback from qualified individuals. Eliminate the unofficial backchannels. I’m going to own finding the right solution for this.
•  We added a follow up balance update in the coming weeks to our schedule.

I'll note that the post this morning was done at 11:30a on a Monday. We moved quickly and we don't have all of the answers yet.

Q: Why aren't you posting the balance philosophy today? Doesn't it exist?

The philosophy driving profession design and balance has changed a few times over the years, even by the ‘original developers’ of the days of yore. Elite specializations weren’t a part of the game’s original vision, for example. I considered getting a version of this posted in response to this weekend’s discussions, but on further reflection, I came to the conclusion that Cameron Rich taking over as the Lead Systems Designer (which Skills/Balance ultimately falls under) is a great opportunity for us to revisit the discussion internally before making a public statement. Cam brings a lot of great perspective to this area from his experience as the Lead Encounters Designer for GW2. We also recently had Floyd Grubb join the WvW team - and we'd like to have him involved there as well.

 

Q: A balance team was just created after End of Dragons? Why wasn't there a balance team before?

I'd like to clarify my comment. Guild Wars 2 has had a balance team in the past, no doubt. For End of Dragons, our professions designers were asked to turn their full attention towards building elite specializations, which ultimately meant that live balance updates were few and far between. As we were building our dev plans for post-End of Dragons, I felt very strongly that we needed to staff a full-time balance team that supports the live game, even as we're building future expansion content. We're trying to get to a place where we can hit a consistent cadence with the updates, even as other work is in flight.

 

One huge change that you need to make, after nearly 10 years of playing this game and watching ArenaNet make the same balancing mistakes, is to stop relying so heavily on stats-only feedback from dev's favorite speedclear players, raider statics, etc. These players naturally represent an infinitesimal fraction of the player base.  Their experience doesn't match the experience of most players, and tuning based on it will have harsh and unexpected impacts on the average player.  Their feedback is useful, but refusing to use it in context as 1 piece of the puzzle will keep landing you in the same hot water.

You need to listen to all players, including players who play classes you don't (balance devs should play all classes, btw, but the bar is obviously really low right now) or players who know a lot and are telling you things you don't want to hear.

Even more importantly, how classes play is a HUGE part of the experience.  GW2's combat is praised not because of numbers, but because of how the classes feel to play. Discounting that is doing a huge disservice to the game, and also is a big part of why people quit. The balance team actually does need to think about how things like animations and cooldowns change how a class feels to play. 

Take a look at overall game balance, not just extreme benchmarks of  joke builds specifically made for a single point.  GW2 efficiency can do a survey of classes, so why can't you? What classes get what percent of play in what content using what builds and roles? If 1 class shows up in a game mode rarely or always in similar roles, that's a problem, no matter if the best player of that class can get huge numbers on a stationary golem.  How much work does it take for a class to achieve certain benchmarks, and how does that compare to other classes? Firebrand is a meta class because it's easy for the DPS and boons.  Numbers dictate player experience, and player experience matters, not just stats. 

 

Talk to the players who know the classes, and then check that with how an average player plays.  Don't just pay attention to people who play the classes a specific balance dev likes. Really, any developer who does balance updates should be playing all classes. Or, have a class lead like many other MMOs? Or, just make public test servers, as the cheap but workable option?

Invite players to give feedback or play on test servers by random lottery, not whether a dev has special Discord channel with them.  PUG with average players during test events and track their stats, or see where people have difficulty.

 

Make it a rule that devs can't play with their personal acquaintances as part of balance testing, so you actually get results uninfluenced by personal preference for the coder,  given by players who can't just hit up their dev buddy for an explanation of the new skills' design philosophy and how to use them best.

 

Obviously, eliminate backchannels that privilege feedback from specific players and let devs play favorites without the playerbase knowing. Privileging specific clients like that is so wildly unprofessional, and privileging them then ignoring them is epic fractal misjudgement. It makes me seriously wonder if I should bother spending more on Guild Wars 2. 

 

What's the point, if it's OK for your developers to spend their time giving special privileges, in information or who knows what, to their buddies?  Do I think it was just information that went over that Discord (spoiler: nope) or tips, tricks, explanations of hard parts of the game, or ways to make money?  Possibly actual skins, gold, or gems?  And ignoring players that they didn't like or didn't play their favorite classes? This is so wildly out of line. A channel for feedback is for feedback, not just feedback from your favorites about your favorites. Allowing special backchannels is already so unprofessional that frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if it was all of the above.  Your developers aren't behaving with the bare minimum of professionalism, let alone respecting the vastly different player experiences that different groups have. This is a serious problem, beyond this specific balance patch.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Gilosean.3805
Clarify and reiterate a couple main points

[RoastedWalnuts.4618]

You said you would be more open with us, act on it because now more than ever you need to be.

You have just come off of the back of a homerun with EoD and dived straight into controversial leaks and a horrible balance patch that feels like it was made in a couple afternoons by some random temp you hired off of the street. This post isn't going to go into details on either there is already a million and one posts for that here and on reddit this is just to state that you need to properly address both issues instead of trying to dismiss them and not later, now. 

You said you would talk, now is the time to talk.

(Edit)

The "response" talked about in the comments here was nothing but a sidestep that addressed nothing on the leaks or the state of this patch.

To reiterate I don't want this post to devolve into the specific discussions on specific issues there is plenty of other posts for that. This is just stating that they need to address both these things in a meaningful capacity and fast.

Edited June 28, 2022 by RoastedWalnuts.4618
Response to comments.

[Kilty.4906]

And they did: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/117042-follow-up-to-the-june-28-balance-update-preview

[Diak Atoli.2085]

They are communicating.

 

[Ashen.2907]

21 minutes ago, SpellboundTutor.4257 said:

Patches can be patched, mate. And yet there are many people in your camp of thinking saying things like "GW2 is dead", "Whoever's in charge of this patch should be fired", and worse.

Imagine being so upset at a video game that you call on someone to kill themselves over it. I've been on the other side of that one too many times just as a player. In this MMO and others.

Touch grass. Match the tone of your criticism with the content of your criticism. You're making WoW players sound rational.

(Allegedly) making death threats is inappropriate. Suggesting that someone lose their job for demonstrating incompetence or failing to perform at a satisfactory level is not. Personally I do not think that the dev most pointed to as deserving to lose his job merits that severe of a corrective action, but I do think that his superiors should be doing their job better if he has not been sufficiently trained (as seems to be the case) to do his. 

[SpellboundTutor.4257]

1 minute ago, Ashen.2907 said:

(Allegedly) making death threats is inappropriate. Suggesting that someone lose their job for demonstrating incompetence or failing to perform at a satisfactory level is not. Personally I do not think that the dev most pointed to as deserving to lose his job merits that severe of a corrective action, but I do think that his superiors should be doing their job better if he has not been sufficiently trained (as seems to be the case) to do his. 

I mean, that's not really anyone's call to make other than that person's boss, right?

It's not helpful feedback from the playerbase. We don't know that person's workflow. We don't know if it was one person or a team of people. Or if all parties involved were working on the balance patch while also multitasking with working on balancing the next Challenge Mode, and maybe some wires got crossed. Or that maybe no one on the balance team plays a warrior main so they're not as "passionate".

The feedback we, as players, should be giving, is "We don't like how this works. This is why we don't like how this works." And, if you want, add in a "We want it to work like this."

Throwing around disciplinary action, as lenient as a reprimand or as severe as a firing, is not your job or your call. And it's frankly a gross overreaction from an echo chamber of toxic attitudes.

[SpellboundTutor.4257]

 

1 minute ago, Seremela the Elf Mage.1748 said:

There's a large amount of hyperbole here coming from someone condemning an opposing view point for engaging in what the poster perceives as too much "hyperbolizing and doomsaying"...

If you want, I can point you to many a twitter and reddit post, or the first page of this very thread for examples.

[Seremela the Elf Mage.1748]

1 minute ago, SpellboundTutor.4257 said:

I mean, that's not really anyone's call to make other than that person's boss, right?

It's not helpful feedback from the playerbase. We don't know that person's workflow. We don't know if it was one person or a team of people. Or if all parties involved were working on the balance patch while also multitasking with working on balancing the next Challenge Mode, and maybe some wires got crossed. Or that maybe no one on the balance team plays a warrior main so they're not as "passionate".

The feedback we, as players, should be giving, is "We don't like how this works. This is why we don't like how this works." And, if you want, add in a "We want it to work like this."

Throwing around disciplinary action, as lenient as a reprimand or as severe as a firing, is not your job or your call. And it's frankly a gross overreaction from an echo chamber of toxic attitudes.

I think you've been left behind in the conversation at some point. This has moved beyond being an issue of "bad/questionable balance decisions" and become more focused on reprimanding an employee for behaving in an unprofessional matter and the company trying to gag any proof of their wrongdoing/mishandling the situation

[ClawfingerPL.5263]

2 minutes ago, SpellboundTutor.4257 said:

 

If you want, I can point you to many a twitter and reddit post, or the first page of this very thread for examples.

 

Just now, Seremela the Elf Mage.1748 said:

I think you've been left behind in the conversation at some point. This has moved beyond being an issue of "bad/questionable balance decisions" and become more focused on reprimanding an employee for behaving in an unprofessional matter and the company trying to gag any proof of their wrongdoing/mishandling the situation

big off top but due to sleep depravation i legit thought you were both one person just replying to themselves, i am going to sleep good night lmao