At what point is it elitism vs efficiency?

[Zohane.7208]

3 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Auto lfg puts players into functional party: you choose if you are healer, tank or DPS before entering the pool.

Here's a subset of roles that are currently in use: healer/buffer, healer-alac, condi dps-alac, power dps-alac, pure power dps, pure condi dps, quickness-dps.

How would an automatic group builder (aka auto lfg) be able to make a functional party from this?

[Linken.6345]

9 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Auto lfg puts players into functional party: you choose if you are healer, tank or DPS before entering the pool.

And what stop someone from saying they are a tank or a healer to just skip the line as a dps becasue it is so long.

And then not fill the function making the whole group suffer?

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

10 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Auto lfg puts players into functional party: you choose if you are healer, tank or DPS before entering the pool.

There are more than "Healer, Tank or DPS". Heal Alac/Quick, DPS Quick/Alac, the tank can be either of them, or even a DPS player. Then there are boss specific builds, Tower, Lamp, Q1/Q2 kite, so on,
You also need to count in how each profession can bring different utility, for example Druid has acess to root skills.

If you could queue as either 3 of those roles it wouldn't make things better whatsoever. Auto LFG could work in Fractals, but not in Raids.

[Bakeneko.5826]

23 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

GW has way more build types and specific fight roles than that.

Completely missed the point. Good for you. Should i expand idea so it works with GW and you can understand? DPS, Healer, tank, alac source, quickness source. Mix and match as needed.

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Completely missed the point. Good for you. Should i expand idea so it works with GW and you can understand? DPS, Healer, tank, alac source, quickness source. Mix and match as needed.

Again, can't work with specific roles.

And again again, love how you not going into specifics. How do you tag up? How does the automated system check if a "DPS alac" build is actually DPS alac? At which point is there fewer keystrokes and actual benefits from the automation apparent?

[Bakeneko.5826]

2 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Again, can't work with specific roles.

And again again, love how you not going into specifics. How do you tag up? How does the automated system check if a "DPS alac" build is actually DPS alac? At which point is there fewer keystrokes and actual benefits from the automation apparent?

It's almost like game could check what boons you have available on your current build. Not the point though. Works well on WoW, with way better and harder raid design and classes can do several roles as well. I'm not here to discuss how it should work, if Anet ever wants to do it - they will do it. Thing is - it is proven to work on other MMO games.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Bakeneko.5826

[The Boz.2038]

22 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

It's almost like game could check what boons you have available on your current build. Not the point though. Works well on WoW, with way better and harder raid design and classes can do several roles as well. I'm not here to discuss how it should work, if Anet ever wants to do it - they will do it. Thing is - it is proven to work on other MMO games.

Yanko design, is that you?
"We invented the thing, now let the engineers figure it out."

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

9 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

It's almost like game could check what boons you have available on your current build. Not the point though. Works well on WoW, with way better and harder raid design and classes can do several roles as well. I'm not here to discuss how it should work, if Anet ever wants to do it - they will do it. Thing is - it is proven to work on other MMO games.

Just because it works in WoW doesn't mean it will work in GW2 where there are more options, Alac/Quick Heal, Alac/Quick DPS, DPS, or even a generic healer without Alac/Quick, oh, also special roles like HK, Pylon Kite.
Did you take these into consideration as well or it's just a Ctrl+C Ctrl+V of WoW's system that uses Heal, DPS and tank?

[Sobx.1758]

On 8/1/2022 at 7:36 AM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

Auto lfg puts players into functional party: you choose if you are healer, tank or DPS before entering the pool.

...did you skip all of the posts here and in other threads talking about it? Because what you describe is not what is being talked about, due to how gw2 build system works.

[Cuks.8241]

14 hours ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

It's almost like game could check what boons you have available on your current build. Not the point though. Works well on WoW, with way better and harder raid design and classes can do several roles as well. I'm not here to discuss how it should work, if Anet ever wants to do it - they will do it. Thing is - it is proven to work on other MMO games.

Have you raided in any of those games?

Wow LFR is completely nerfed. It can technically be called a raid but you can also call GW2 open world meta events raids by some parameters. Its a preview mode.

Wow from the start had very defined roles. A holy priest could only be a healer, same with resto shaman. There were very few "specialisations" that could mix it up (feral druid, frost DK for example). Gw2 paradigm is the complete opposite. 

Wow has done a great deal of simplifying their group compositions post woltk (maybe post cata, its been a long time). GW2 is more similar to wow's early raiding days. You had 5 man subgroups which had very strict compositions based on buffs required for the group. Tank group, melee or white dmg dps group, caster group... For example you wanted a shaman with windfury  in your melee dps group, a shadow priest with your casters, mana users, lock with imp with your tank... At some point the whole 25 man raid was strictly defined. Blizzard changed their paradigm substantially to simplify compositions and accommodate LFR. "Bring the player not the class." It is also much easier to do this with a vertical progression game because all the old content is obsolete anyway and only the latest raid matters.

GW2 to function like that would need a complete shift in the design. I think many players would go nuts if Anet suddenly decided that Firebrand, Druid and Tempest are strictly healers from now on and no one else can heal anymore.

I am not saying one design is better than the other. They are just different. I like old wow and gw2 better because I enjoy making unusual builds and alows for much more group composition experimentation. But it definitely has a downside in its complexity and group building where one player's build impacts other builds in the party. 

[mythical.6315]

On 8/1/2022 at 11:16 PM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

It's almost like game could check what boons you have available on your current build. Not the point though. Works well on WoW, with way better and harder raid design and classes can do several roles as well. I'm not here to discuss how it should work, if Anet ever wants to do it - they will do it. Thing is - it is proven to work on other MMO games.

GW2 != WoW or even other MMOs. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by mythical.6315

[Bakeneko.5826]

3 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

GW2 != WoW or even other MMOs. 

True, it has less players then ESO,. FF and WoW. Must be better game, with better mechanics.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

16 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

True, it has less players then ESO,. FF and WoW. Must be better game, with better mechanics.

GW2 is doing fine without copying mechanics from the "more popular" MMOs.

You play GW2 to play GW2, not to play a WoW/ESO/FF clone. 

Based on your idea that the more popular a game is the better it is why aren't people trying to get Anet to copy Lost Ark, that's a popular game, copying systems from it will surely help GW2, right?
 

[Bakeneko.5826]

36 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

GW2 is doing fine without copying mechanics from the "more popular" MMOs

I will assume you are joking here and not talking seriously (or never played any other MMO)

[Bakeneko.5826]

36 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

why aren't people trying to get Anet to copy Lost Ark

It ain't good? There is reason, why Ark bled most of it's player base in Europe already

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

13 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

I will assume you are joking here and not talking seriously (or never played any other MMO)

I've played ESO, WoW and Lost Ark. I still play GW1 and 2. 

13 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

It ain't good? There is reason, why Ark bled most of it's player base in Europe already

Then why does it have so many players still playing it? People surely don't play a bad game. 

[Renegated.4132]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:32 PM, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Then why does it have so many players still playing it? People surely don't play a bad game. 

 

90% of those players are probably bots and the 10% remaining are the hardcore players that used "the shortcut" in order to reach the endgame.