Ancient Jotun

[Artificer.3468]

Are there any references to any powerful spells that The jotun were able to perform before turning into their current state?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

There's a couple, but the most direct is in the Arah dungeon if you take the Jotun path. They appeared to have used a form of magitech, akin to asura but more astral-based, and had a mystic telescope. The first collection for The Bifrost is also themed to the ancient jotun magic/magitech, though there's not much actual lore to it but does tie the weapon to jotun magic:

The Jotun Star, fabled relic of the ancient mystical race, was said to call down a rainbow to the land. The stone, and its power, was broken long ago.

[Artificer.3468]

Thank you!

[Fueki.4753]

The magic Braham uses on Eir's bow to crack the Fang of the Serpent is of ancient Jotun origin as well.

And given that Asgeir Dragonrender used similar magic, that magic might have been of Jotun origin, too.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Zoom.9648]

The truth is that, like other topics, they are interesting when it comes to having a clear idea of things in the game, there is a lot of content on the wiki but it would be nice to be able to find it within the game in an easy and accessible way.

[Teratus.2859]

Perhaps post EoD we can see some upgrades done to the 3 Orders of Tyria like perhaps some kind of mini missions system that cater to each orders speciality.

Whispers returning to spying, sabotage and assassinations, with missions themed on that.

Vigil returning to protecting people, cleaning up dragon minions and launching assaults against factions deemed as "threats" such as the Nightmare Court for example or some remnants of the White Mantle attempting to reform again.

And the Priory which could have interesting missions based on worldbuilding and lore expansion, hunting down artifacts and knowledge about the ancient races etc.

 

Personally i've always loved the idea of expanding the Orders of Tyria and giving them a lot more to do in the world outside of just being lumped into a singular army to fight the dragons.
They have always felt very underwhelming tbh which is a shame because the potential is definitely there to do some really cool stuff with them.

[Zola.6197]

2 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Personally i've always loved the idea of expanding the Orders of Tyria and giving them a lot more to do in the world outside of just being lumped into a singular army to fight the dragons.
They have always felt very underwhelming tbh which is a shame because the potential is definitely there to do some really cool stuff with them

An interesting concept for future expansions or seasons would be stories focused on the orders. A season focused on the activities of the Chantry of Secrets wherein we eventually learn Sunrise Crest is preparing for an invasion of mainland Tyria, and the expansions then shifts focus to the Vigil as we bring the fight to them. Following season is Priory focused as we develop ties with Sunrise Crest’s remaining factions and study their culture?

 

Not saying the game should go this route, but bigger stories that focus on each order’s ideology and methods toward achieving that would be cool.

Edit: More on topic, a Priory season or expansion that delves really deep into the pre-dragonrise races’ lore would be super cool. Heck, even a side story. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Zola.6197

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

2 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

An interesting concept for future expansions or seasons would be stories focused on the orders. A season focused on the activities of the Chantry of Secrets wherein we eventually learn Sunrise Crest is preparing for an invasion of mainland Tyria, and the expansions then shifts focus to the Vigil as we bring the fight to them. Following season is Priory focused as we develop ties with Sunrise Crest’s remaining factions and study their culture?

 

Not saying the game should go this route, but bigger stories that focus on each order’s ideology and methods toward achieving that would be cool.

Edit: More on topic, a Priory season or expansion that delves really deep into the pre-dragonrise races’ lore would be super cool. Heck, even a side story. 

Given that a season for GW2 is typically 1.5 years, three seasons involving the orders would be nearly 5 years worth of content just on one story. Even doing one as an expansion isntead of a season would be like 3.5 years of content for one story. That's far beyond the scope of any of the Elder Dragons, or the side villains like Joko, got. You're almost certainly going to lose the vast majority of casual players dragging a story out that long. Part of the reason no story has gone on that long in the first place.

If anything you would probably get a singular season, where each order gets two releases if they're like LWS3/LWS4 releases where each gets its own new map, or, if built like IBS, you could get three releases for each order, each one giving half a map like Bjora/Drizzlewood maps were released. This leading into an expansion where we actually go there.

Also the "Sunrise Crest" specifically refers to the body of water next to the "Wetlands" landmass, not the landmass itself. There's no one to invade us from the Sunrise Crest since no one lives in that body of water that we know of. The people live on the "wetlands" landmass.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Kalavier.1097]

On 7/17/2022 at 9:35 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

The magic Braham uses on Eir's bow to crack the Fang of the Serpent is of ancient Jotun origin as well.

And given that Asgeir Dragonrender used similar magic, that magic might have been of Jotun origin, too.

Supposedly. I think the magic was tied to Primordus, even if the spell was made by Jotun. It's the easiest explanation for why those items were able to so easily damage Jormag's body parts when nothing else could.

6 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Perhaps post EoD we can see some upgrades done to the 3 Orders of Tyria like perhaps some kind of mini missions system that cater to each orders speciality.

Whispers returning to spying, sabotage and assassinations, with missions themed on that.

Vigil returning to protecting people, cleaning up dragon minions and launching assaults against factions deemed as "threats" such as the Nightmare Court for example or some remnants of the White Mantle attempting to reform again.

And the Priory which could have interesting missions based on worldbuilding and lore expansion, hunting down artifacts and knowledge about the ancient races etc.

 

Personally i've always loved the idea of expanding the Orders of Tyria and giving them a lot more to do in the world outside of just being lumped into a singular army to fight the dragons.
They have always felt very underwhelming tbh which is a shame because the potential is definitely there to do some really cool stuff with them.

The big problem is that the orders are mainly anti dragon, outside of the Priory.

The orders have always acted independently of the pact, which was a joint effort to fight the dragons. The problem with the Whispers and Vigil is "Who do they fight, and why do they fight?"

I can't see them easily marching to war against a faction without carefully exploring the politics and reaction. The White Mantle is gone, the Svanir broken, the Flame Legion reformed. Inquest are too heavily tied into the politics of Rata Sum to effectively wipe out (as they'll always have base and leaders in Rata Sum) and I can only see nightmare court popping up in any major way resulting in them being wiped out or massively bled and broken.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

The big problem is that the orders are mainly anti dragon, outside of the Priory.

The orders have always acted independently of the pact, which was a joint effort to fight the dragons. The problem with the Whispers and Vigil is "Who do they fight, and why do they fight?"

I can't see them easily marching to war against a faction without carefully exploring the politics and reaction. The White Mantle is gone, the Svanir broken, the Flame Legion reformed. Inquest are too heavily tied into the politics of Rata Sum to effectively wipe out (as they'll always have base and leaders in Rata Sum) and I can only see nightmare court popping up in any major way resulting in them being wiped out or massively bled and broken.

As we saw with all the dragon's minions the death of their dragons didn't just cause all of them to drop dead.

Risen still infest Orr, Mordrem still infest the Maguuma, we know theres lot of Branded still underground needing to be forced up by the thumping devices, and theres still some Destroyer and Icebrood forces remaining. The Pact is still going to have dragon minions to fight for YEARS, if not decades, following the evens of EoD.

Not to mention the Pact would very easily also turn its attention to whatever the horrors of the deep are, and if we get a Mists based story, and have like a Mist Demon army, they could go after that also.

And the Order of whispers pre-dates both the Priory and Vigil. After the fall of the Elder Dragons they would just back to political manipulation to help keep the world "stable", like they were before.

[Teratus.2859]

8 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

An interesting concept for future expansions or seasons would be stories focused on the orders. A season focused on the activities of the Chantry of Secrets wherein we eventually learn Sunrise Crest is preparing for an invasion of mainland Tyria, and the expansions then shifts focus to the Vigil as we bring the fight to them. Following season is Priory focused as we develop ties with Sunrise Crest’s remaining factions and study their culture?

 

Not saying the game should go this route, but bigger stories that focus on each order’s ideology and methods toward achieving that would be cool.

Edit: More on topic, a Priory season or expansion that delves really deep into the pre-dragonrise races’ lore would be super cool. Heck, even a side story. 

That could certainly work as well.

I do like the idea of a foreign nation plotting a war with mainland Tyria tbh, and that door is opened up somewhat with the Dragons no longer around to "get in the way"

That said though Aurine is still present, so unless she is written out of the story for a while (which could be done using Cantha) she could still be a deterrent for a foreign invasion.

 

If they do go that road though I hope it doesn't end up foreign nations of known races like Humans etc.

They should go all in on a new race instead, something crazy exotic that Guildwars has never seen before.

It would make it a lot more enjoyable to go through that process of learning your enemy again much like we did with Gw1 Charr.

Off the top of my head i'm thinking a race of insectoids would be a pretty cool and interesting thing to do for Gw2, with huge potential in terms of racial and cultural design choices.

Their motive concept could be as simple as overpopulation, the need to spread and consume to sustain their ever growing population, while more rebellious elements of their society seek alternative ways of life that do not lead to invasion and wars that risk all they have for what is essentially a temporary fix and not a permanent solution to their problems.

Although some people have an aversion or fear of insects so while it would be pretty sweet to have an awesome race of insectoids I doubt it would ever happen.
Would still be pretty cool though imo.

[Teratus.2859]

5 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Supposedly. I think the magic was tied to Primordus, even if the spell was made by Jotun. It's the easiest explanation for why those items were able to so easily damage Jormag's body parts when nothing else could.

The big problem is that the orders are mainly anti dragon, outside of the Priory.

The orders have always acted independently of the pact, which was a joint effort to fight the dragons. The problem with the Whispers and Vigil is "Who do they fight, and why do they fight?"

I can't see them easily marching to war against a faction without carefully exploring the politics and reaction. The White Mantle is gone, the Svanir broken, the Flame Legion reformed. Inquest are too heavily tied into the politics of Rata Sum to effectively wipe out (as they'll always have base and leaders in Rata Sum) and I can only see nightmare court popping up in any major way resulting in them being wiped out or massively bled and broken.

Well the Order of Whispers have been around longer than any of them so naturally they would go back to what they were doing before the dragons.

Originally they were focused on keeping Palawa Joko sealed away and before that they hid the existence of Titans and Demons from the general population, likely to stop some lunatic from tying to use them.

It's safe to say the Order of Whispers could easily return to doing stuff like this, protecting the world from the shadows and ending threats before they begin.

 

The Vigil on the other hand is far more directly tied into Elder Dragons than the other two orders.
But they are not exclusively about Elder Dragons.

The Vigil has acted as neutral diplomats between nations as we saw with their involvement in the Ebonhawke treaty so it's not always about stabbing the bad guys with the sharp things.

That said the Vigil's goal is in their own words to be "an army of light against the onslaught of darkness"
So I think it's safe to say that whenever a force of evil rises up in the world the Vigil will be honour bound to oppose it.
Elder Dragons were simply the first major threat of importance but now that they are gone the Vigil can likely divert their attention to other problems in the world and offer their support in dealing with them.
The Nightmare Court could certainly be one potential enemy for the Vigil.

But there are most certainly others that would warrant their attention, such as the Horrors in the Deep.
Demons, Titans and other beings of Evil intent like Menzies the Mad and his Shadow Army etc
Suffice to say so long as there are evil ne'er-do-well's in the world of Tyria the Vigil will always have enemies.

[Scavarius.6059]

16 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Perhaps post EoD we can see some upgrades done to the 3 Orders of Tyria like perhaps some kind of mini missions system that cater to each orders speciality.

Whispers returning to spying, sabotage and assassinations, with missions themed on that.

Vigil returning to protecting people, cleaning up dragon minions and launching assaults against factions deemed as "threats" such as the Nightmare Court for example or some remnants of the White Mantle attempting to reform again.

And the Priory which could have interesting missions based on worldbuilding and lore expansion, hunting down artifacts and knowledge about the ancient races etc.

 

Personally i've always loved the idea of expanding the Orders of Tyria and giving them a lot more to do in the world outside of just being lumped into a singular army to fight the dragons.
They have always felt very underwhelming tbh which is a shame because the potential is definitely there to do some really cool stuff with them.

i just want them to no longer be in rags. its been years since they crawled out of maguuma and still look like they got chewed up by some chak.

also, i'm pretty sure the priory has some somewhat working jotun artifacts rolling around, but we all know they stuff most of their findings in a crate and into some badly managed warehouse 😞

[Teratus.2859]

58 minutes ago, Scavarius.6059 said:

i just want them to no longer be in rags. its been years since they crawled out of maguuma and still look like they got chewed up by some chak.

also, i'm pretty sure the priory has some somewhat working jotun artifacts rolling around, but we all know they stuff most of their findings in a crate and into some badly managed warehouse 😞

I can agree with that lol

It is a bit of a shame the Jotun regressed so much, but generations of tribal inbreeding is likely the cause of that.
Still there are some intelligent Jotun around so who knows, maybe they will manage to recover some form of society one day.

Although I expect that will come with a divide among the more prideful and arrogant Jotun's who would rather remain as they are than admit they were in the wrong to think the way they do.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Teratus.2859

[Kalavier.1097]

12 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

As we saw with all the dragon's minions the death of their dragons didn't just cause all of them to drop dead.

Risen still infest Orr, Mordrem still infest the Maguuma, we know theres lot of Branded still underground needing to be forced up by the thumping devices, and theres still some Destroyer and Icebrood forces remaining. The Pact is still going to have dragon minions to fight for YEARS, if not decades, following the evens of EoD.

Not to mention the Pact would very easily also turn its attention to whatever the horrors of the deep are, and if we get a Mists based story, and have like a Mist Demon army, they could go after that also.

And the Order of whispers pre-dates both the Priory and Vigil. After the fall of the Elder Dragons they would just back to political manipulation to help keep the world "stable", like they were before.

Risen infest Orr but don't really leave, same as Mordrem.

The amount of branded left is unknown but implied to be small, as the thumping devices actively keep them away (they were sabotaged, which was why they kept popping up). The brand was cleansed and the brandstorms stopped, so the branded are a lesser threat if any actually exist in great numbers.

The destroyer and icebrood forces are gone, with current known groups being too small to truly be a danger.

Yes there are foes left, but the main purpose of the Pact was a joint leadership and supply against the dragons. As mentioned in EoD, there are some who ponder the dissolving of the pact as a formalized joint army.

10 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Well the Order of Whispers have been around longer than any of them so naturally they would go back to what they were doing before the dragons.

Originally they were focused on keeping Palawa Joko sealed away and before that they hid the existence of Titans and Demons from the general population, likely to stop some lunatic from tying to use them.

It's safe to say the Order of Whispers could easily return to doing stuff like this, protecting the world from the shadows and ending threats before they begin.

 

The OoW were originally Turai's intelligence agents/bodyguards who then shifted to keeping Palawa sealed and protecting the world from other publicly unknown, powerful threats.

That's off-topic though.

7 hours ago, Scavarius.6059 said:

also, i'm pretty sure the priory has some somewhat working jotun artifacts rolling around, but we all know they stuff most of their findings in a crate and into some badly managed warehouse 😞

I think the Priory warehouse is well-managed, but good luck finding anything for those who don't actively work within the place! 😛

6 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

I can agree with that lol

It is a bit of a shame the Jotun regressed so much, but generations of tribal inbreeding is likely the cause of that.
Still there are some intelligent Jotun around so who knows, maybe they will manage to recover some form of society one day.

Although I expect that will come with a divide among the more prideful and arrogant Jotun's who would rather remain as they are than admit they were in the wrong to think the way they do.

According to the Mursaat account, part of the regression of the Jotun was purposeful to try to save themselves from the dragon's attention.