Is transmutation shard really required to apply cosmetics bought from cash shop?

[The Boz.2038]

6 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

 

You are wrong about gems being create ex nihilo; they are generated  with real money. The gems that players use for buying in game gold are the other pile and the gems people buy with gold are therefore also "extracted from that pile of gems.

 

"They are generated" = "created ex nihilo"
Any source for the rest?

[Gehenna.3625]

2 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

"They are generated" = "created ex nihilo"

The same way that real money is generated

2 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Any source for the rest?

the wiki

[The Boz.2038]

26 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

the wiki

...yeah
No.
Wiki says nothing about it.
One of the sources has a ten year old interview with Mike, which features the following sentence:
"If a player buys gold from another player, he gets the gold he wants, the selling player gets gems she can use for microtransactions."
That statement is outright wrong, as you can't buy gems from other players, so it probably refers to some old version of how it may have worked, or something... Or, if you squint real hard, you can read into it something else, but that opens more questions than it answers.

[Freya.9075]

3 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

...yeah
No.
Wiki says nothing about it.
One of the sources has a ten year old interview with Mike, which features the following sentence:
"If a player buys gold from another player, he gets the gold he wants, the selling player gets gems she can use for microtransactions."
That statement is outright wrong, as you can't buy gems from other players, so it probably refers to some old version of how it may have worked, or something... Or, if you squint real hard, you can read into it something else, but that opens more questions than it answers.

When someone buys gold with gems. The gems ends up in a pool of gems other players bought before. When someone buys gems with gold they take from that pool. That’s why the price for gems fluctuates the way it does. The more gems the cheaper pricing. And that’s why the price gets higher when popular gem items come on sale 

[The Boz.2038]

7 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

When someone buys gold with gems. The gems ends up in a pool of gems other players bought before. When someone buys gems with gold they take from that pool. That’s why the price for gems fluctuates the way it does. The more gems the cheaper pricing. And that’s why the price gets higher when popular gem items come on sale 

Source?
If gems sold for gold get tossed onto the pile, what about gems... spent to buy things on the store?

Asking because you need none of those "two separate pots" mechanic to get the exhibited behavior. 

[Freya.9075]

4 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Source?
If gems sold for gold get tossed onto the pile, what about gems... spent to buy things on the store?

Asking because you need none of those "two separate pots" mechanic to get the exhibited behavior. 

 

[Spltzr.5167]

Hey! I'm the one who bought the skins for leveling!

I'll admit, I didn't read the fine print. I played other mmos like FFXIV, WoW, SW:TOR, or other free to play games like Path of Exile, Warframe and many mobas, and in every one of those games, when I bought a skin, I just used it whenever. So I went in the store with that expectation.

Btw I don't even think the system is 100% terrible and should be abolished. I can see how it caters to enfranchised players that have tons of transmutation charges. It's just a system I don't agree with, asking the new player, that barely knows your game, to pay extra to use a skin they already paid for, in a game they just paid to get in, leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.

I got an outfit to fix this problem they designed for me, and I'll keep playing because I already paid for the game, but I don't think I'll use this cash shop ever again.

[Shuzuru.3651]

Hum... I'm not certain, but isn't at least FF14 and WoW using a similar currency system when it comes from armor and weapons customisation ? 

Like glamour prism and transmogrify charge

I know those 2 kinda copied the gw2 system back in the days

[kharmin.7683]

51 minutes ago, Spltzr.5167 said:

I got an outfit to fix this problem they designed for me

You think that Anet designed their transmutation charge specifically to be a problem for you?

[Spltzr.5167]

Yeah, FF14 uses a really dumb system too now that I think about it. I played completely for free until level 60 so I didn't noticed at first. But on the second character the system really becomes annoying.  Skins use that "glamour prism" which only unlocks at level 50! And then it's very similar to here, using one of those prisms per armor piece you want to change. Only the dye was more openly available. The prism was craftable but was a pain in the butt. Guess the only thing that helped FF14 was that I could level most stuff I wanted with the same character, so I didn't create that many characters after the first.

WoW I didn't really play much, made it to 80 when that was caps and started another character that went to 40 I think? but all transmogs cost some of the in-game currency that I never ran out of, so that system didn't really bother me much, since it never got to a point where it prevented me from using it, even if I transmoged frequently while leveling.

 

[Spltzr.5167]

2 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

You think that Anet designed their transmutation charge specifically to be a problem for you?

Obviously not for me specifically, "me" as a new player. Every player with some game time in this thread said "this system doesn't affect me at all".

You can't say this problem isn't designed to affect new players only.

[kharmin.7683]

4 minutes ago, Spltzr.5167 said:

Obviously not for me specifically, "me" as a new player. Every player with some game time in this thread said "this system doesn't affect me at all".

You can't say this problem isn't designed to affect new players only.

That's where I think the differences lie.  Many players don't see this as a problem. 

[Spltzr.5167]

16 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

That's where I think the differences lie.  Many players don't see this as a problem. 

I mean yeah, it's a "silly" problem. I imagine most players don't even put money into the game for skins until they played for a while.

But in my specific situation, it's a problem nonetheless. I would be so happy if they would sum up what they expect me to pay in charges and then just charge me upfront for a permanent/free-use skin. Those systems that try to charge me along the way feel like I'm playing a gamigo mmo.

[RazielTheUnborn.2189]

7 minutes ago, Spltzr.5167 said:

I mean yeah, it's a "silly" problem. I imagine most players don't even put money into the game for skins until they played for a while.

But in my specific situation, it's a problem nonetheless. I would be so happy if they would sum up what they expect me to pay in charges and then just charge me upfront for a permanent/free-use skin. Those systems that try to charge me along the way feel like I'm playing a gamigo mmo.

 

Sir, you don't have to pay. Just play the game for Transmutation Charges. Complete a City Map and you get 1 ~ 2 charges per completion. There are six cities. Map completion is once per character. You can get dozens of charges in a short order. PvP/WvW Reward tracks kitten out Transmutation charges. The reason a lot of people don't have this issue is because they have been playing the game, not because they have been spending money. 

[Trejgon.9367]

3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Any source for the rest?

There was a reddit thread where dude that made the system explained how it works, it's ancient and unfortunatelly I do not have link handy anymore.... ah nevermind, Wiki had it in references:

 

[Spltzr.5167]

36 minutes ago, RazielTheUnborn.2189 said:

 

Sir, you don't have to pay. Just play the game for Transmutation Charges. Complete a City Map and you get 1 ~ 2 charges per completion. There are six cities. Map completion is once per character. You can get dozens of charges in a short order. PvP/WvW Reward tracks kitten out Transmutation charges. The reason a lot of people don't have this issue is because they have been playing the game, not because they have been spending money. 

Yeah no I get, I mean I can play the rest of the game just fine. But no matter what I do, I'll always have this impression of GW2 where I paid for the game, saw a skin I liked, paid for the skin, and then couldn't use it on my characters at leisure.

Just to be clear, I don't think they should do away with this system as a whole. Every mmo ever follow this "design the problem, sell the solution". I just tend to spend more on the ones I don't feel pressured to do so, like Warframe or Path of Exile, where yes everything is overpriced, but it just works once I bought it.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Spltzr.5167
to *do* so

[Ashantara.8731]

On 7/21/2022 at 4:00 AM, Justine.6351 said:

Never really occurred to me but yeah as a new player, that has to be obnoxious.

We were all new players at some point, and we survived through it just fine -- and now have thousands of Transmutation Charges we have no use for.

I have a feeling that many players who have joined within the past year or so seem to want everything thrown at them for free (including prestige mounts and legendary gear). I find that to be "obnoxious", to be honest.

[Spltzr.5167]

6 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

We were all new players at some point, and we survived through it just fine -- and now have thousands of Transmutation Charges we have no use for.

This is exactly my point!

Veterans -> have no use for the system

New players -> Can be obnoxious if you want to use it early

 

I find no reason why you guys want it. Seems to me like you either don't really interact with it at all in the early levels, or it just gets in your way and you ignore it until it's no longer a problem you need to even register.

[Ashantara.8731]

10 minutes ago, Spltzr.5167 said:

New players -> Can be obnoxious if you want to use it early

I remember the feeling of this being one of the many things to work towards, and the excitement of getting there.

These days, everything you can't have right this second is being considered "obnoxious." Why? 😐 I don't find that mindset particularly appealing nor rewarding.

Edit: Sure, I wouldn't mind if they added something we can do with that surplus of Transmutatiom Charges. But seeing them removed from the game, well... I have mixed feelings about it. But to each their own.
 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Spltzr.5167]

I have things I'm working towards, I didn't even rush a character to 80 to get a mount (btw I saw a lot of recommendations to do this, and saw a lot of low level players using this) because I like the slow pace of the exploration. Can't wait to get a glider too!

But a skin I paid for? Yeah, I kinda want that right after I paid for it.

[angrymouse.2340]

9 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

These days, everything you can't have right this second is being considered "obnoxious." Why? 😐 I don't find that mindset particularly appealing nor rewarding.

Seems to me that you are treating a skin bought from cash shop as an expansion or chapter that you have to grind on. For me this is a very bizarre POV.

[Ashen.2907]

On 7/20/2022 at 4:59 PM, angrymouse.2340 said:

For sure, It was him, not me, but holy cow. I will still play (I actually think he will quit) because the rest of the game have a good value but from today I will never spend a single penny in cosmetic items here.

For me a bad business practice is something that has the potential to negatively impact the business at a scope that outweighs the benefit. Creating a circumstance in which players, new ones in particular, are disincentivized from buying cash shop skins as they level up is a bad idea. By making cash shop skins free to apply in perpetuity, or at least giving them multiple free applications(5?), you make them more appealing.

This doesnt affect veterans, long time vets, as much because many of us have stockpiles of the things (I am sitting on over 700 and have all legendary armor so only weapon reskinning uses charges). But newer players dont have that stockpile so the gemstore skins have their value lowered. Either having the cash shop specific skins be permanently free to apply, come with a number of charges, or giving a small number of charges to new accounts has the potential to increase demand for those skins. This makes players happier with their purchases, which in turn increases willingness to make future purchases, which makes the company more money.

Making spending money on your game an unpleasant experience for new players is a bad idea. It means that no matter what you add in the future they are less likely to even look.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Trejgon.9367]

Personally I am having hard time to relate to the main topic, because when I was in position of a newbro, we didn't have transmutation charges, we had transmutation stones, and there were two types on them, one working only gear in lvl ranges of 1-79 (and these were as common as current charges) and other working for lvl 80 gear (and much more rare). So overall within my frame of experience, current wardrobe system is great improvement.

4 hours ago, angrymouse.2340 said:

Seems to me that you are treating a skin bought from cash shop as an expansion or chapter that you have to grind on. For me this is a very bizarre POV.

Nobody is treating gemstore skins as anything to grind for. when you buy them, you get item which you then can use to apply this skin on any compatible item.

On secondary effect it also unlocks as a skin within wardrobe system (which for further applications does require transmutation charges), but there is still nothing to grind for there. Not by a long shot.

 

EDIT:

  

4 hours ago, Spltzr.5167 said:

I have things I'm working towards, I didn't even rush a character to 80 to get a mount (btw I saw a lot of recommendations to do this, and saw a lot of low level players using this) because I like the slow pace of the exploration. Can't wait to get a glider too!

But a skin I paid for? Yeah, I kinda want that right after I paid for it.

and you DO get it right after you paid for - for a single item, for sure, but you can apply it to any valid item without any additional transmutation charges.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Lord Trejgon.2809

[Linken.6345]

12 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Source?
If gems sold for gold get tossed onto the pile, what about gems... spent to buy things on the store?

Asking because you need none of those "two separate pots" mechanic to get the exhibited behavior. 

Gems spent in the store ofcourse vanish since they are spent on items.

You do need those pots to get the behavior.

 

[Erick Alastor.3917]

On 7/21/2022 at 1:46 AM, angrymouse.2340 said:

WoW huge disapointment, curious that ppl are ok buying even so you can got to a point that you cannot use a paid item.

The main reasons people are okay with it are:
- Every skin you unlock is unlocked for your whole account
- Important gears are account bound
- Transmutation charges come from many sources (pve/wvw/pvp), and you could even farm them if you're in a hurry
- Once at endgame you don't change your stats/gear that often
- Unlocking a legendary gear piece (which is a long term goal) will make you able to apply your unlocked skins without requiring  transmutations charges.

Keep in mind that in GW2  there is no real gear threadmill the company can take advantage of by selling powercreep on the store, so it's kinda expected that they try to monetize fashion as much as possible, being it part of the endgame for many players.
I have to say it's a quite fair approach once you get used to it.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Erick Alastor.3917