everything should be "automated"

[Asum.4960]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:12 PM, godfat.2604 said:

Honestly, I don’t think this is a bad feature. For skills which require timing, spamming them off cooldown is not going to be useful; For skills which we just want to spam off cooldown, this is a tool to help us. No points to do this manually, it’s not fun anyway.

If anything, the problem is more that why there are skills that we would ever want to spam off cooldown? That’s a separate question we should ask Anet why designing skills that way.

That's the real issue, and it's kind of scary that we are heading in that direction full force. 

 

As busted as FB was/is, at least it required some game knowledge/skill - or at least heavily scaled with it, in terms of the huge difference it made in pressing Solace for Aegis/Styg for Stab or the Tomes off-cooldown, and timing them precisely for specific attacks, be it big hits or hits/phases with CC. 

 

The direction of the new specs, be it permanent Stab stack on Mech to press off CD, or mindlessly spam all Heal and Utility Cooldowns to maintain boons/DPS for example on Harbinger with Elixirs or Specter with Wells etc. will eventually lead to a much worse place still - especially if they eventually are brought up to parity. 

 

If Heal and Utility skills are becoming just more weapon skills rather than situational, skill and game/encounter knowledge based, Utility, and everything is used off-cooldown anyway - we really aren't far off from might as well just automate it. 

 

I feel like all the old specs, synergies and rotations revolving around fun and well flowing skill combos and burst windows are slowly dying in each balance patch to be replaced with nothing but busy work of just mindlessly spamming everything off CD or auto attacking. 

It's such a shame to see given that GW2's skill based combat system has always been it's biggest strength by far.

[ThunderX.6591]

29 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Nah just nerf mech both dps and especially alac mech into the ground and far below other alac providers and dps builds that require to press buttons. Then nerf hfb and qfb far below other quickness providers.

Mission accomplished: Anet for once would have produced a patch with some semblance of balance. None of the other specs are so mindbogglingly op or braindead, so this would be addition by subtraction on a massive scale.

You just asked to make the game worse for all players......... nice job, the best outcome possible for you is to get the game worse for all instead of try to better it for the other classes who aren't so good.

Don't know, but maybe, asking to buffs some other classes to better the game isn't something nicer and helpfull for all the community instead of asking nerf because you don't like how people play those 2 classes?

[Karagee.6830]

1 hour ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

You just asked to make the game worse for all players......... nice job, the best outcome possible for you is to get the game worse for all instead of try to better it for the other classes who aren't so good.

Don't know, but maybe, asking to buffs some other classes to better the game isn't something nicer and helpfull for all the community instead of asking nerf because you don't like how people play those 2 classes?

False. What I'm asking is exactly the definition of making the game better for everyone...bar mech and fb stans. So yeah, the game will be worse...FOR YOU, who like the current lopsided imbalance, the worst ever seen in pve in the history of gw2.

Sure, buff every other quickness and alac support in the game to bring it above the current level of Mech and FB and then buff all autoattack builds to do 25k afk dps possibly all ranged because why not. I'll still be waiting when gw3 is going for the first expansion.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:

That's the real issue, and it's kind of scary that we are heading in that direction full force. 

 

As busted as FB was/is, at least it required some game knowledge/skill - or at least heavily scaled with it, in terms of the huge difference it made in pressing Solace for Aegis/Styg for Stab or the Tomes off-cooldown, and timing them precisely for specific attacks, be it big hits or hits/phases with CC. 

 

The direction of the new specs, be it permanent Stab stack on Mech to press off CD, or mindlessly spam all Heal and Utility Cooldowns to maintain boons/DPS for example on Harbinger with Elixirs or Specter with Wells etc. will eventually lead to a much worse place still - especially if they eventually are brought up to parity. 

 

If Heal and Utility skills are becoming just more weapon skills rather than situational, skill and game/encounter knowledge based, Utility, and everything is used off-cooldown anyway - we really aren't far off from might as well just automate it. 

 

I feel like all the old specs, synergies and rotations revolving around fun and well flowing skill combos and burst windows are slowly dying in each balance patch to be replaced with nothing but busy work of just mindlessly spamming everything off CD or auto attacking. 

It's such a shame to see given that GW2's skill based combat system has always been it's biggest strength by far.

This is all very well said. And if they don't realise that things like timed aegis, timed stab or reflects, timed cc, using burst when appropriate etc are bread and butter then there is only one direction this game is going to go.

Boons are the same btw. The current trade-off for 100% alac and quickness is just risible for specs like HAM and QFB. It requires no strategy or workaround, just get the spoon fed solution Anet is oppressively pushing on everybody.

[cyberzombie.7348]

One thing worth mentioning about Machinist, is that its has one of the few pets/minions that has long-range attacks. So there's not as much of a demand for jade mechs to constantly chase and assess its path to deal considerable damage. Something that kept pets like the tiger or smokescale in check.

Edited August 4, 2022 by cyberzombie.7348

[godfat.2604]

2 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

That's the real issue, and it's kind of scary that we are heading in that direction full force. 

As busted as FB was/is, at least it required some game knowledge/skill - or at least heavily scaled with it, in terms of the huge difference it made in pressing Solace for Aegis/Styg for Stab or the Tomes off-cooldown, and timing them precisely for specific attacks, be it big hits or hits/phases with CC. 

The direction of the new specs, be it permanent Stab stack on Mech to press off CD, or mindlessly spam all Heal and Utility Cooldowns to maintain boons/DPS for example on Harbinger with Elixirs or Specter with Wells etc. will eventually lead to a much worse place still - especially if they eventually are brought up to parity. 

I am not familiar with Soulbeast so I might be wrong, but I think it’s the same change, that they want to normalize One Wolf Pack burst into sustain damage, so that timing is less important, raising the worst case sustain damage output so the gap between bottom and top is closer (the same goes to exposed change and favoring conditions). Depending on how large those gaps were, if they’re really too large, then I think the idea itself is fine. For example, 10 times difference is too large, 2 times is ok in my opinion.

However, I think their approach to this was wrong. They were probably thinking too much into golem benchmark, and under this context, the skill gaps between players in this regard is, guess what? How people can perform/play the rotation/piano. So how can we reduce the gaps for a golem benchmark? The only thing they can do was, make the rotation forgiving by removing the synergies between skills, so which exactly order is no longer important, as a result, just spam kittens off. What else you can do facing a dummy golem doing nothing? (This assumption is based on the contents of the leak)

What they forgot are, this game is not involving around performing rotations. To me, the fun things are when to use the skills (longer cooldown will encourage thinking about this more), what rotations to use right now at this moment (situations vary!), and how I should position myself when everything is happening (range, cast time, movement, all play a role). The skills gaps can come from judgements, not just fingers speeds, muscle memory, or network latency.

Yes, the rotations can be simplified to reduce skill gaps, but at the same time it can also raise the bar for picking the right time to use the right skills. Otherwise, it’ll just make everything too simple and at that point, we’re not too far from playing like a bot and can as well just automate it. Using the skills at the wrong time, should be punishing, so the skill gaps are not completely removed and we still have some challenges to play with. If the skills were properly designed, we wouldn’t want to enable auto-casting, because it will only hurt! We can measure how well the skills were designed by checking how auto-casting is popular! The more popular this feature is, the worse the skills were designed.

All that said, I still want to use this feature because a feature is a feature, we already have so many bad skills anyway.

Edited August 4, 2022 by godfat.2604
Fix spelling

[ThunderX.6591]

Karagee, is PVE, people play what they want, how they want, when they want, it is the great and nice thing of a game in a non-competitive environment (opposite to what could be wvw or pvp).

For me, the game will be practically the same, like i sayd in other posts, my main is ranger (Soulbeast), second is Alac Renegade (unfortunatelly power build, need to switch to condi someday), Mecha is a secondary char i use cause i like to have a robot (not all the time is ok, some times, like with ranger pets, it doesn't move accordly to what i command it to do); i simple like to have proper information about a class, not random numbers for start a random nerf "something" post when we need a lot more classes buffs........ (and how can you ask for buffs the "not so good class" if there is nothing higher then them as a goal to reach?)

A forest start from a single tree.

[ruikarikun.9402]

Wait, I am sorry, but how exactly it works in game? Some settings?

I mean you can make auto mech f1-f3 in some way?

[Serephen.3420]

I think AAs in gw2 in general are a problem. Some do way too much damage. I'd rather heavily nerf all AAs (probably to a similar level as most ele AAs) and shift the damage more into actual skills and utility. 

This would help encourage more active and less passive gameplay. People could still have AA builds if they want, but no AA dps build should go over 10k dps.

AAs should be gap fillers and never a large source of damage in a build. 

 

As for mech, I'd movethe barrier from autos to its other weapon skills instead and adjust to compensate if need be. 

[Fan Didly Tastic.7169]

On 8/3/2022 at 4:48 AM, zeyeti.8347 said:

I was an ele player (not anymore as the class is trash tier now) so i know what button spamming is .

According thats a good feature (even only an option) , is litteraly nonsense to me . Pressing buttons isnt fun ? Dont play vidéo games then , it's all about pressing buttons ( i know the thing about the iboga skill on a 3secs cd was pretty annoying ,...)

And the point i want to make by my sarcasm is not that the game get easier , it's literally let the game fall in an automated mode like disgusting mobile phone games.

You thought mecha player were all around the world ? Well good for you , you gonna see more of them, till they represent 50% of the meta.

You will like playing an actual class , who require skill to do damage , get overrun by a mech player basically at 1 action per hour ?

I sure not !

Thats my opinion , but that patch is stupid and shows that the game is literraly falling in a black hole.

Thats a basic rule for me in vidéo games : You press a button -> something happen , you press nothing -> nothing happen.

And again if you think it's annoying to press button (even the same every 3 secs) , i literally dont know what to say .

It's like saying i am a fervent vegan but i work in a butchery...

But everyone has his vision and opinion of the game , for me it shows a dark future  . And if for some of you it seems bright , well good for you then .

No offense but your opinion is little more than a hyperbolic slippery slope argument. Have we seen people with competitive builds that are even stronger when you use skills of cool down? I surely have not. Also you misunderstand, spamming the same button thoughtlessly, is not fun. It's not pressing buttons. It's when we are little more than a machine to hit things off cool down, that's not fun. Why should I even be playing if my player thought/input would lower my DPS? At that point, it's nicer to have auto skills for pets. Besides, not having to dedicate brain power in PvE to off CD pet skills is a huge QoL for PvE. I can instead put it to higher skill rotations.

Also this dystopic future of gameplay you're assuming doesn't make any sense. I fail to understand the prevalence of this issue. Because in order for auto using skills off cd to be oppressive, then that would just mean even without the auto skills, I could just mash off CD and kill you even faster. So what is it? Is it that low intensity builds can beat high ones, or is that mashing can beat you? And in order for this AA future to happen, Gw2 would have to be rebalanced as an auto battler, which would be... Ridiculous?

Now as far as being undertuned or losing to a build that has at most, 3 auto skills, that's pretty reductive, especially to the skill of the one who killed you because you're grounding everything they were down to 3 abilities that all do more than just damage, and are better used not off CD. How do you know it was that that killed you? I'd get it, if you could consistently show evidence of how oppressive the auto skills random meta is, but I'm doubtful.

Beyond the auto skills, yes, I can agree it is unfair when a "balanced" low intensity builds are stronger than apparently "balanced" high intensity builds. A lot of our builds are high intensity right now because poor balancing leading to a lack of build diversity. Where the only way to be competitive is to play your butt off. That is a problem, but it has nothing to do with a small parcel of skills getting a QoL boon, and everything to do with the lack of forethought and vision rut the current balance team seems to be trying to clamber out of.

I get the worry and anger over balance, but this just ain't it.

[Polar.8634]

I also vote for active gameplay and not passive. I hope they will not make classes i play autocasted. People say, if u don't like auto class why play it. Well, if next patch will make my classes auto, what should I do, don't play? I guess it should not be Anet's aim. To clarify - for me problem with auto skills is that i like to feel impact of my actions, if most boons and damage happen itself, i don't play at all then. It reminds me giving 2year old brother disconnected controller, and make him believe he plays and wins, despite his actions does not influence what happens on screen.