Making commanding more satisfying? A "Player rep" system

[Farohna.6247]

Also, mentor may be for getting a group together but I find it also more just a marker or someone helping out on starter maps, while a commander tag denotes someone you can port to for a world boss, meta event, or one of the jumping puzzles that are a pain.  I do see mobs of apples at times when people get bored waiting for events.  I don't see mobs of comm tags.  So where's the problem?  Mentors, please enlighten new players on the difference and preferred uses.  Comms, keep on doing your thing and summoning hoards of people and herding cats.

[Taclism.2406]

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

There's also just the effort/reward ratio to consider. In WvW, commanders are generally on the move most of the time (unless in the middle of sieging if no one is guarding) and have to make a lot of decisions and deal with the consequences. By comparison, many meta commanders can get away with being a LFG taxi and never saying a word, so it doesn't make a lot of sense from that standpoint to reward someone more just because they paid the 300g (or 100g if they got it back in the day)

I wish I could upvote a comment twice, but this part especially I completely agree with.
I didn't went into specifics about the kind of rewards, or what would make you elligible or not for said buff/reward because the more you go into details, the more the thread is likely to deviate over those small details instead of keeping the discussion focused on the general idea / people's experience as commanders.
It could even be up to squad members voting whether or not the commander was helpful enough / scale with positive votes. That has the nice perk of helping realize the loud jerk doesn't represent the silent, appreciative majority

Edited August 17, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[Danikat.8537]

Any system for rewarding commanders would be very easily abused and lead to people commanding to farm rewards instead of because they want the group to succeed. 

That is the reward for being a (good) commander now: it enables you to do things you cannot do alone. Yes the reward from that is the same as the rest of the squad gets, but no one would get anything without the whole squad participating and commanding facilitates that, it's not something which happens in isolation. 

Likewise the thing which will get more and newer people commanding is that they want to get groups together to complete the content, the same thing which incentivises them now. There's no need to add additional rewards and no way to do it that won't instead incentivise farming rewards. 

[Taclism.2406]

Reading all of your replies (basically no more rewards), I'll deviate towards another idea that don't give any "actual" reward but stay in the spirit of putting a tag up, and could help make commanding way more satisfying regardless : 

Once per account, after you beat a meta / raid / strike , every squad member get the possibility to "tag" their squad leader(/mentor) with "Answers questions" , "Good lead",  "Entertaining" , "Polite".  Basically varied positive traits.
When you form a group and go in LFG, the amount of each tag you received shows up (in the lfg window only).
The "reward" is not only having feedback as to whether or not you did a good job, but also acting as a sort of player rep system, which helps finding groups that suit you.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[Lottie.5370]

I use my tag every single day for making groups for content (metas, strikes, raids, guild missions etc). These range from open to anyone squads, to organised/training squads, to semi-hardcore squads.

 

I don't really like any of your suggestions - I don't think you should get anything for commanding, and having a "feedback" system or whatever sounds silly. It doesn't show anything at the end of the day - and puts new commanders at a disadvantage for no reason, since they'd obviously have very little positive reactions. Bad commanders could also get these positive feedbacks from friends, or alt accounts... what I'm trying to say is that it's meaningless.

 

I do, however, think they should reduce the gold cost of the tag back to 100g (I got 3 tags back when they were 100g each/char bound). 300g is obscene and really puts newer players off it.

[Taclism.2406]

34 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

Bad commanders could also get these positive feedbacks from friends, or alt accounts... what I'm trying to say is that it's meaningless.

I've thought about it but I still think its a better system than getting review bombed for a squad fail.
Maybe it only allows you to rate ONCE a leader, to avoid farming guildmates on a daily basis is a fair point. Changing "once a day" to "once per account".

However I disagree about it being meaningless. I really think a system like that not only would help finding leaders / group members that fit you more ; but also makes commanding more motivating, actually push more people to do it

34 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

I do, however, think they should reduce the gold cost of the tag back to 100g (I got 3 tags back when they were 100g each/char bound). 300g is obscene and really puts newer players off it.

I also agree with that but didnt include it because suggesting anything is already almost guaranteed spam confused, and lowering the cost of anything is a hot topic

Edited August 18, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[DexterousGecko.6328]

I'll be honest, I'm a solo open world/casual player that rarely will see the commander tag and follow them around like a lost puppy, but I honestly had no idea you guys actually have to pay for that. That's just ridiculous. You guys should be REWARDED for completing activities with a group instead of having to pay to do it.

 

It means nothing I'm sure, but us lost puppy dogs that show up, we appreciate what you do. I would be very much for having some sort of praise system, but I have no idea how that would work, and I can't see ANet doing anything, as people here love to say "why would they?"

[Linken.6345]

9 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

I've thought about it but I still think its a better system than getting review bombed for a squad fail.
Maybe it only allows you to rate ONCE a leader, to avoid farming guildmates on a daily basis is a fair point.

However I disagree about it being meaningless. I really think a system like that not only would help finding leaders / group members that fit you more ; but also makes commanding more motivating, actually push more people to do it

I also agree with that but didnt include it because suggesting anything is already almost guaranteed spam confused, and lowering the cost of anything is a hot topic

What do that review bomb do really?

Nothing you shrug it off and tag up for the next meta.

[Taclism.2406]

9 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

What do that review bomb do really?

In a world where that would show up in LFG among other tags, it could do a lot actually, especially if you're new at commanding and fail your first attempts. You wouldnt care if you play a lot and have a 95%+ positive average, but it'd make starting to command more intimidating, not less. Or be regarded as a "forever bad" commander if its not wiped every few months or something

Edited August 18, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[Linken.6345]

3 minutes ago, Taclism.2406 said:

In a world where that would show up in LFG among other tags, it could do a lot actually, especially if you're new at commanding and fail your first attempts. You wouldnt care if you play a lot and have a 95%+ positive average, but it'd make starting to command more intimidating, not less.

Ever heard sticks and stones maybe break my bones but words will never hurt me?

If 1 failure is enough then they were not cut out to command anyway.

A good reply to the review bomb would be well atleast  I tried to make it work what did all of you guys do?

Just because someone have a tag dont magicly make 100% of the people do what they say or even see what they type.

So It is kinda useless to blame the commander of all things.

[Taclism.2406]

10 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

If 1 failure is enough then they were not cut out to command anyway.

Agreed. 
 

13 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

So It is kinda useless to blame the commander of all things.

True, yet you'll see people blaming commanders more than (parts of) the group anyway

But even if you see a commander with 60-70% positive reviews, and one with 90%, which one are you gonna try to go first with? It becomes a competition for rating then.
The idea isnt to quantify how good you are, but "what kind of environment" you bring / seek, making people that have the same vibe connect easier, and turn the experience of commanding overall a bit more positive

[Ashen.2907]

I find the current commander system to be fine as is. Perhaps if there was a solid explanation of its shortcomings (nothing is perfect) I could see these suggestions as other than a solution looking for a problem.

Again, I am not claiming that the current system is perfect, just that I am not seeing a problem that the suggestion(s) would solve. It would be like someone coming up with complex solutions for the fact that the level cap is 80 instead of 81.

[Taclism.2406]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I find the current commander system to be fine as is. Perhaps if there was a solid explanation of its shortcomings (nothing is perfect) I could see these suggestions as other than a solution looking for a problem.

Again, I am not claiming that the current system is perfect, just that I am not seeing a problem that the suggestion(s) would solve

At this point its kind of a suggestion for LFG, attached to most group content (all provided it doesnt mix categories? like someone review for a JP shouldnt show for a raid) , and I think there's plenty to improve about LFG.
Its shortcoming are the overall bad presentation, billions of abbreviations to compound as much info as possible in what little text shows up, and overall uselessness until you "take the time to study it"
This sort of tag makes the first experiences easier, is a good excuse to make lfg more colorful and nicer to look at, and could be used to find groups that are "as you like them", be it full of advises, a bit strict but with great success, or just chatty. 

As for the "leader" side of things, its not exactly solving a problem, moreso providing positivity that makes lack of commanders less likely to become a problem. I might not play at peak connection time but LFG feels emptier each passing month, and while you might just perceive it as collecting  insignificant stickers (if it was to everyone, no one would feel like compulsively spam confused or farming reddit karma lol), I just think its a nice touch that'll encourage the practice

Edited August 18, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[Doggie.3184]

I don't think it'd really work in this game's structure as opposed to something like FFXIV's +rep which requires you to leave an impression on random strangers in a queued instance rather than begging for it in overworld and pestering all your guildies to like and subscribe. 

[Sobx.1758]

19 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Reading all of your replies (basically no more rewards), I'll deviate towards another idea that don't give any "actual" reward but stay in the spirit of putting a tag up, and could help make commanding way more satisfying regardless : 

Once per account, after you beat a meta / raid / strike , every squad member get the possibility to "tag" their squad leader(/mentor) with "Answers questions" , "Good lead",  "Entertaining" , "Polite".  Basically varied positive traits.
When you form a group and go in LFG, the amount of each tag you received shows up (in the lfg window only).
The "reward" is not only having feedback as to whether or not you did a good job, but also acting as a sort of player rep system, which helps finding groups that suit you.

You don't "find a group that suits you" by seeing that someone answered a question on a starting map (as an example), you find it by reading its description and understanding whether or not it does what you want it to do (or simply joining it because it participates in a meta event you want to do as well 🤷‍♂️). To me it seems like a change for the sake of change with no actual value behind it.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[itspomf.9523]

Given that your negative experiences center upon the competitive game modes (which have a nasty little tendency of attracting rather nasty individuals), I'm not surprised.

That said, I can absolutely see those players using a reputation system to harass others, which would definitely not be healthy for the game.

If anything, I'd recommend the judicious use of your blocklist (I know, but at least it shuts them up, too), and working primarily with guildmates or others.  PUGs are, like their namesake, always chancy.

[Farohna.6247]

1 hour ago, itspomf.9523 said:

Given that your negative experiences center upon the competitive game modes (which have a nasty little tendency of attracting rather nasty individuals), I'm not surprised.

That said, I can absolutely see those players using a reputation system to harass others, which would definitely not be healthy for the game.

If anything, I'd recommend the judicious use of your blocklist (I know, but at least it shuts them up, too), and working primarily with guildmates or others.  PUGs are, like their namesake, always chancy.

It would definitely inspire a whole new batch of trolls, and it would look like yelp reviews.  Lol the WvW commentary alone would be.. interesting.  

I could see any time a meta failed that someone gives a one star review even though it's not the commander's fault they refuse to read or can't dps or not stand in shock waves.  No thank you on a rating system, it does not flow well with the general attitude of the game.

[Astralporing.1957]

23 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

Reading all of your replies (basically no more rewards), I'll deviate towards another idea that don't give any "actual" reward but stay in the spirit of putting a tag up, and could help make commanding way more satisfying regardless : 

Once per account, after you beat a meta / raid / strike , every squad member get the possibility to "tag" their squad leader(/mentor) with "Answers questions" , "Good lead",  "Entertaining" , "Polite".  Basically varied positive traits.
When you form a group and go in LFG, the amount of each tag you received shows up (in the lfg window only).
The "reward" is not only having feedback as to whether or not you did a good job, but also acting as a sort of player rep system, which helps finding groups that suit you.

If you want to do something because you perceive there is/might be not enough commanders, why are you pushing for a system that would "grade" those tags and thus possibly reduce (in practice) those numbers even further, as well as discouraging potential new commanders from even starting?