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Well I'M happy

Murdock.6547

By Murdock.6547
in Necromancer

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Aetatis.5418

Aetatis.5418

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@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Murdock.6547 said:

@Aetatis.5418 said:

@Fatalyz.7168 said:

@Fatalyz.7168 said:I have logs from this past week. I'm either at the top, or near the top. In places where I'm not the top on boss, it is because of dealing with mechanics. For example, cannon running on Sabetha and mushroom on Sloth (the DH who out did me on Sloth didn't have to eat a mushroom). Didn't add KC's log to this because Scourge isn't as strong on it. Once I have a decent rotation working for power reaper, I'll look into taking it there. Otherwise necro on 12/13 fights is pretty good.

Okay, but that is Scourge.. What about Reaper? Would you happen to have stats on that?

I do not. I do not have a rotation or build that I am comfortable taking into raids with, atm. Are you wanting condi or power reaper? I can tell you that condi reaper is largely the same, just was nerfed, less whirl finishers from RS 4, as well as less poison generation.

I was wondering about Power Reaper since the last changes.Anyone tried power reaper in raids or have numbers / build??

#

27k dps, realistic buffs, golem

build:

thanks to Sublimatio.6981

This is beautiful.Glad I refused to jump on the "necro still bad" bandwagon so I dont look like a fool.

That kind of dps on a power build? Beautiful.Not tempest or weaver, but still wonderful.

I mean, lets be real here. We would have to shed all our natural tankiness (19k base health + shroud health pool) to be able to have Ele levels of damage. Which would likely cause an even greater backlash than we've seen before.

speaking for myself ofc. i never asked for weaver dmg (which is highly !!! dependent on skill and encounter e.g. boss that does not move) but with either 10% more dmg in core traits or a mechanic to reduce enemies toughness with e.g. shroud mechanics, i'd be pleased now (pve (!!!) )

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Aetatis.5418

Aetatis.5418

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@vicious.5683 said:Lol, it's ridiculous how people are happy with 27k dps. A kitten joke.

It's even more ridiculous that the better things get, the more people complain.

nah, thats easy.the better things get, the more people are interested (because: potential) = more complains. right? right!

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dceptaconroy.7928

dceptaconroy.7928

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@vicious.5683 said:Lol, it's ridiculous how people are happy with 27k dps. A kitten joke.

It's even more ridiculous that the better things get, the more people complain.

Exactly! opponents are complaining.. about our increased spike dmg. To the point where they feign being necro mains and state we are now OP. Now that is ridiculous.

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Lahmia.2193

Lahmia.2193

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@Aetatis.5418 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Murdock.6547 said:

@Aetatis.5418 said:

@Fatalyz.7168 said:

@Fatalyz.7168 said:I have logs from this past week. I'm either at the top, or near the top. In places where I'm not the top on boss, it is because of dealing with mechanics. For example, cannon running on Sabetha and mushroom on Sloth (the DH who out did me on Sloth didn't have to eat a mushroom). Didn't add KC's log to this because Scourge isn't as strong on it. Once I have a decent rotation working for power reaper, I'll look into taking it there. Otherwise necro on 12/13 fights is pretty good.

Okay, but that is Scourge.. What about Reaper? Would you happen to have stats on that?

I do not. I do not have a rotation or build that I am comfortable taking into raids with, atm. Are you wanting condi or power reaper? I can tell you that condi reaper is largely the same, just was nerfed, less whirl finishers from RS 4, as well as less poison generation.

I was wondering about Power Reaper since the last changes.Anyone tried power reaper in raids or have numbers / build??

#

27k dps, realistic buffs, golem

build:

thanks to Sublimatio.6981

This is beautiful.Glad I refused to jump on the "necro still bad" bandwagon so I dont look like a fool.

That kind of dps on a power build? Beautiful.Not tempest or weaver, but still wonderful.

I mean, lets be real here. We would have to shed all our natural tankiness (19k base health + shroud health pool) to be able to have Ele levels of damage. Which would likely cause an even greater backlash than we've seen before.

speaking for myself ofc. i never asked for weaver dmg (which is highly !!! dependent on skill and encounter e.g. boss that does not move) but with either 10% more dmg in core traits or a mechanic to reduce enemies toughness with e.g. shroud mechanics, i'd be pleased now (pve (!!!) )

Oh ya I agree. I mean if I wanted to do weaver damage, I'd go play weaver (which I tried and hated).

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Murdock.6547

Murdock.6547

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It's kind of frustrating to see this sort of anger at Mirage and Weaver for having more damage than necromancer. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding, or perhaps a refusal to understand the forces at play here.

Mirage is broken right now, its certainly not intended to do this much damage.It was likely an oversight (which happens, no person nor group of people is perfect and mistakes happen). What happened with mirage this patch was they fixed several bugs that were hindering performance and then buffed it on top of it all, leading to a massive boost in performance that was not expected by the devs.Weaver is strong because it has a very strict and volatile rotation, it's insanely frail, and mobile bosses will cut their damage by huge margins. If it didn't have its numbers it would have nothing.

Necro is below average (28k vs 33k average) in single target because that is not necromancer's strength. They obliterate adds with epi. Not a single class in the game can exterminate adds up to 900 units away with a single button press without losing much dps on the boss (you give up I think it was roughly 384 dps for not taking shadow fiend?)Even the GS power variant has very strong cleave and add control. (Pull, blind field, aoe vuln, cleaving nuke that resets on 50% hp targets)

Being upset that weaver can do more damage on stationary, large hitboxes is simply asinine. That's their niche, that is entirely why you take them.To do things like phase KC, or obliterate cairn. Why do we take necro? To exterminate adds. If you genuinely want to do high single target dps, play weaver or (for now) mirage which is almost assuredly going to get nerfed next patch.

Honestly, if you look at statistics of actual raids, you can see the gaps are much smaller than on golem. Exeption being mirage, which is again, utterly busted right now.

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Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

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The better Necro gets, the more new players or those with other mains decide to use it. Then, they run into the profession's idiosyncrasies and post here about them. There are also those who deeply offended that their boons can be corrupted.

I am going to go out on a limb and predict Death Magic is on the list for the balance team now that Scourge and Reaper have seen adjustments.

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Murdock.6547

Murdock.6547

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@Crinn.7864 said:The problem with Reaper is that Scourge does everything Reaper does, but Scourge does it better.

Youre right.As much as I can defend necro from other classes being better I cannot defend necro from itself.Reaper is good now, but typically where reaper is good scourge is better.Exception being maybe escort for solo capping towers simply because reaper shroud is a touch safer there plus you have stab and a nice aoe stun.

But all of that is moot since most groups run chrono with portals.

The might change was actually ingenious, as having 25 might in pvp is much harder (thus easier to balance) than just flat 10% more damage.Those huge buffs to reaper shroud were only possible because shroud is easy to counterplay in pvp. They punctuated this harder by cutting duration, but thats fine. Shroud sitting has never been viable outside of open world.. And it still is, even with this change.

Tldr: necro is fine, big picture but reaper lacks a unique niche.. And i think anet knows this.

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Oldirtbeard.9834

Oldirtbeard.9834

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@Azzara Nectum.1734 said:

@vicious.5683 said:Lol, it's ridiculous how people are happy with 27k dps. A kitten joke.

Exactly.. Meanwhile mesmer dishes out 40K+ .. And has access superspeed, aegis, protection, regeneration, might, swiftness, vigor, fury & stealth..

Anet, please, just please FIX THIS kitten CLASS!

Seriously? I wonder how hard it is to play a Mesmer?

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Agrippa.1693

Agrippa.1693

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@Murdock.6547 said:It's kind of frustrating to see this sort of anger at Mirage and Weaver for having more damage than necromancer. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding, or perhaps a refusal to understand the forces at play here.

Mirage is broken right now, its certainly not intended to do this much damage.It was likely an oversight (which happens, no person nor group of people is perfect and mistakes happen). What happened with mirage this patch was they fixed several bugs that were hindering performance and then buffed it on top of it all, leading to a massive boost in performance that was not expected by the devs.Weaver is strong because it has a very strict and volatile rotation, it's insanely frail, and mobile bosses will cut their damage by huge margins. If it didn't have its numbers it would have nothing.

Necro is below average (28k vs 33k average) in single target because that is not necromancer's strength. They obliterate adds with epi. Not a single class in the game can exterminate adds up to 900 units away with a single button press without losing much dps on the boss (you give up I think it was roughly 384 dps for not taking shadow fiend?)Even the GS power variant has very strong cleave and add control. (Pull, blind field, aoe vuln, cleaving nuke that resets on 50% hp targets)

Being upset that weaver can do more damage on stationary, large hitboxes is simply asinine. That's their niche, that is entirely why you take them.To do things like phase KC, or obliterate cairn. Why do we take necro? To exterminate adds. If you genuinely want to do high single target dps, play weaver or (for now) mirage which is almost assuredly going to get nerfed next patch.

Honestly, if you look at statistics of actual raids, you can see the gaps are much smaller than on golem. Exeption being mirage, which is again, utterly busted right now.

So, if we would switch those 'forces of play' entirely, where the Ele is going to be sub-par in damage (but easier rotations), but the Necro (Reaper/Scourge) is going to be the absolute king in DPS on single targets on large AND small hitboxes (to be completely fair: with strict and volatile rotations and a big nerf to Epi). This would make the Necro DPS number one asked for in Raids (as Ele's still pretty much are (exception being the mirage, as you've already stated)). Would you be completely fine with that??? If so, might it not be an idea that such a change happens soon! Maybe YOU could help us advocating it ... It would stir things up a little bit, right? Then we as Necros can come over to the Ele board and make posts with: hey, I think the Ele is in a really good place right now .... I hope you catch my drift.

Secondly, how can anyone ever say that a class is in a good place if it's (even self-proclaimed) all depending on one skill only (Epi) .... Just for the hack of it, let's assume that's really true (which I actually kinda agree on, but that's a whole different discussion), then please nerf the skill to the ground, so they can fix the Necro as a whole!!!!

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Murdock.6547

Murdock.6547

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@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Murdock.6547 said:It's kind of frustrating to see this sort of anger at Mirage and Weaver for having more damage than necromancer. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding, or perhaps a refusal to understand the forces at play here.

Mirage is broken right now, its certainly not intended to do this much damage.It was likely an oversight (which happens, no person nor group of people is perfect and mistakes happen). What happened with mirage this patch was they fixed several bugs that were hindering performance and then buffed it on top of it all, leading to a massive boost in performance that was not expected by the devs.Weaver is strong because it has a very strict and volatile rotation, it's insanely frail, and mobile bosses will cut their damage by huge margins. If it didn't have its numbers it would have nothing.

Necro is below average (28k vs 33k average) in single target because that is not necromancer's strength. They obliterate adds with epi. Not a single class in the game can exterminate adds up to 900 units away with a single button press without losing much dps on the boss (you give up I think it was roughly 384 dps for not taking shadow fiend?)Even the GS power variant has very strong cleave and add control. (Pull, blind field, aoe vuln, cleaving nuke that resets on 50% hp targets)

Being upset that weaver can do more damage on stationary, large hitboxes is simply asinine. That's their niche, that is entirely why you take them.To do things like phase KC, or obliterate cairn. Why do we take necro? To exterminate adds. If you genuinely want to do high single target dps, play weaver or (for now) mirage which is almost assuredly going to get nerfed next patch.

Honestly, if you look at statistics of actual raids, you can see the gaps are much smaller than on golem. Exeption being mirage, which is again, utterly busted right now.

So, if we would switch those 'forces of play' entirely, where the Ele is going to be sub-par in damage (but easier rotations), but the Necro (Reaper/Scourge) is going to be the absolute king in DPS on single targets on large AND small hitboxes (to be completely fair: with strict and volatile rotations and a big nerf to Epi). This would make the Necro DPS number one asked for in Raids (as Ele's still pretty much are (exception being the mirage, as you've already stated)). Would you be completely fine with that??? If so, might it not be an idea that such a change happens soon! Maybe YOU could help us advocating it ... It would stir things up a little bit, right? Then we as Necros can come over to the Ele board and make posts with: hey, I think the Ele is in a really good place right now .... I hope you catch my drift.

Secondly, how can anyone ever say that a class is in a good place if it's (even self-proclaimed) all depending on one skill only (Epi) .... Just for the hack of it, let's assume that's really true (which I actually kinda agree on, but that's a whole different discussion), then please nerf the skill to the ground, so they can fix the Necro as a whole!!!!

Eh? Why on earth would I want elementalist to have its class reworked from the ground up to be a mid-dps class with reasonably high innate tankiness...?And why on earth would I want necro to turn into a glass dps with a piano rotation? Why would anyone actually want that?They'd play ele for more buttons and that gratification of doing your hard rotation well, and they'd play necro to eradicate adds with their easier rotation.At this point you're not asking for homogenization, but instead literally to have two unique classes changed entirely and their roles and playstyles switched for absolutely no reason.

Nobody needs a necro for their dps, and nobody needs an ele for their cleave. We don't need epi nerfed, or necro really all that buffed (power reaper maybe could use some niche for it but its been brought to my attention that having a strong power reaper would annihilate pvp and wvw)

And the idea of nerfing epidemic to the ground..? Why? It's the most unique skill necromancer has. Nothing else can do what it does even marginally. It's powerful in the correct situations, and terrible in others.

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Blue Hare.8612

Blue Hare.8612

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@Renita.7824 said:

You are actually top dps here if you look at all dps, Sabatha is a really great fight for us with epi. Sadly, unless quantify unretires necro no one on this forum will care that on actual non speed clears we can do great dps. Luckily my experience in game is better than on the forums with my 2 guilds I raid with on scourge.

Well, they have unretired scourge and listed it as meta on Sabetha and effective on Xera.

https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/necromancer/condi-scourge/

Edit: Just took another look and it seems they listed scourge effective on MO as well.

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Agrippa.1693

Agrippa.1693

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@Murdock.6547 said:And the idea of nerfing epidemic to the ground..? Why? It's the most unique skill necromancer has. Nothing else can do what it does even marginally. It's powerful in the correct situations, and terrible in others.

And again, does that not scream broken from every angle ... we're only (so called) "viable" cause of pretty much one skill in niche situations and not even be the sheer best at that ... because if we put out REAL benchmarks on cleave dps ... and tune our full builds exactly to that, guess what class will top that .... AGAIN! Obviously shielded by that always dreadful comment of how volatile and difficult the rotations are.The Necro always performs very nice in anecdotal comments on forums and such, but never in real numbers, statistics and analytics ... please cut the soft honey-words bllcrp, and let us be for once the best (or at least optimal) at something ... pretty much every other class had its decent run and some even a full run from the very launch of GW2 ... Now it's our turn!

BIG disclaimer: I'm talking about (high-end) PvE here, and not sPvP and WvW (as we all know, ANet can balance them separately (and should), so IMO we can regard them as complete different games with their own balancing structure for that matter)

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Renita.7824

Renita.7824

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@Blue Hare.8612 said:

@Renita.7824 said:

You are actually top dps here if you look at all dps, Sabatha is a really great fight for us with epi. Sadly, unless quantify unretires necro no one on this forum will care that on actual non speed clears we can do great dps. Luckily my experience in game is better than on the forums with my 2 guilds I raid with on scourge.

Well, they have unretired scourge and listed it as meta on Sabetha and effective on Xera.

Edit: Just took another look and it seems they listed scourge effective on MO as well.

Yes, I saw. It's very good news to see some acknowledgement.

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