Heal Vindicator

[QuinQuin.9136]

Could we please add 0.75s of Alacrity on Urn of Saint Viktor so the heal spec can be taken into PvE? As it stands, it provides neither Quickness or Alacrity, and will never be considered for groups.

[Zaret.1450]

unless they take out alac from renegade i dont see them giving alac to vick, and to be fair... vick was just an extra from the begining, they added it just because and you can see it pretty easily, they just made the fanservice and the need for a new mecanic and gave aliance wich.... well is anything but an aliance, they hate each other, its a pain more than a help most of the time and thank god they took out the auto swap.

and even the power dps build goes with dwarf better than archie... it needs a full rework and isnt even 1 year old XD

[Polar.8634]

Mesmer has alac both on Chrono and mirage so no reason to not to give vindi some key boon. Otherwise, there is no much reason for half of vindi traits to exist

[Angesombre.4630]

The mech also has the two advantages quickness and alac except that it gives only one to the other.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

On 9/13/2022 at 1:47 AM, QuinQuin.9136 said:

Could we please add 0.75s of Alacrity on Urn of Saint Viktor so the heal spec can be taken into PvE? As it stands, it provides neither Quickness or Alacrity, and will never be considered for groups.

This would honestly be a good choice. Give it a reason to run a healing/alacrity build without DPS traits so it doesn’t compete with power alacren for damage. Could make it so the base alacrity duration is based on healing power requiring you to bring healing gear to make full use of it. Why they haven’t done something like that before is beyond me 

 

On 9/13/2022 at 8:36 AM, zaswer.5246 said:

unless they take out alac from renegade i dont see them giving alac to vick, and to be fair... vick was just an extra from the begining, they added it just because and you can see it pretty easily, they just made the fanservice and the need for a new mecanic and gave aliance wich.... well is anything but an aliance, they hate each other, its a pain more than a help most of the time and thank god they took out the auto swap.

and even the power dps build goes with dwarf better than archie... it needs a full rework and isnt even 1 year old XD

There already was an Alac vindicator (and Alac herald) and neither of them stepped on Renegade’s toes.  Bringing it back purely in a healing capacity could make Viktor worthwhile in PvE and differentiate it from Ren enough to allow both to thrive independently. Plus Ren still has condi regardless, something vindicator does not have 

[Angesombre.4630]

I would like for the vindicator that it fixes the bugs that date from the first beta on the dodge jump and the GS already in the first place. I'd like to see the archetype changed, like removing the "Balance in Discord" trait and applying it directly to the "Alliance Tactics" skill. Instead of "Balance in Discord" only the trait "Song of Arboreum".
These are only suggestions for ideas.
This allows you to redo all the traits "Master". We could replace for example:
-a trait to increase DPS
-a trait to share buffs or to be able to put more alteration with the legend or the GS (because a little bit of frost is not crazy when you look at it well)
-a trait to give more buffs to share other than regeneration.

The more the Alliance skill has been increased on both sides, the more it looks like an assembly of 2 legends without any link between them.

And a little bonus that Anet goes back with the sigil on the legend swap ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Lets-Chat-Revenant-Masters-of-the-Mist/page/2#post4807746 ), put the hammer skill 2 back correctly against the character and remove that space. And last thing restore the range of 1200 on the skill "Forced Engagement" which has experienced a triple nerf. With Herald's shield have the ability on "Crystal Hibernation" to be able to move because otherwise you look more like a coffin.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Angesombre.4630

[khawki.4205]

I believe that thier idea for Vindicator is just not suited to current meta. I think the idea would to be to run something like Zealot's (power, precision, healing power). And be off-healing dps. 

It does sound weird, I know, but when you look at the kit and how to make use out of swapping, it kind of makes sense. I have no idea if it would actually work, but maybe it's worth testing on strikes.

[QuinQuin.9136]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:10 PM, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

This would honestly be a good choice. Give it a reason to run a healing/alacrity build without DPS traits so it doesn’t compete with power alacren for damage. Could make it so the base alacrity duration is based on healing power requiring you to bring healing gear to make full use of it. Why they haven’t done something like that before is beyond me 

 

There already was an Alac vindicator (and Alac herald) and neither of them stepped on Renegade’s toes.  Bringing it back purely in a healing capacity could make Viktor worthwhile in PvE and differentiate it from Ren enough to allow both to thrive independently. Plus Ren still has condi regardless, something vindicator does not have 

Yes.

Not only that, but adding Alacrity to Urn of Saint Viktor would open up various different ways to play Heal Vindicator.

You could do raw Heal/Alac, Boon Extension, Heal/Alac/Tank with Minstrels or an off hybrid in some ways.

You could also choose between Jalis or Centurion depending on what you and your group needs.

Such a simple change for great variety and something new to play.

[Aeolus.3615]

18 hours ago, QuinQuin.9136 said:

(snip)

You could also choose between Jalis or Centurion depending on what you and your group needs.

(snip)

new spec? :X

Somehow i think i will never understand healvindi while ic their party get crushed every single(lets exclude outmaned situation from 3 to 1 or even more :} ) time when i even  have less players, when groups are similiar even with other suporter arround they wont last much since they spen more time runing arround than actually supporting, so i never understood how is that even a thing, i hope it gets swaped with  druids after 4 october.

i can imagine celestial vindicator that is a all rounder, but minstrell stats meh... just a tanky mofo that spends most time runing with its urn or when swap to ventari becomes a easy target most even are worse than awfull at it.

Somehow Alliance+jalis makes more sense than with Centaur , and jalis heal and damage team reducer imo is a must, since theres already some kinda of weird support with victor.

In case of ventari If a vindi just stays there with its dome open doing nothing more besides that, it just being a awfull team player and using its class about 30%.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[QuinQuin.9136]

12 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

new spec? :X

Somehow i think i will never understand healvindi while ic their party get crushed every single(lets exclude outmaned situation from 3 to 1 or even more :} ) time when i even  have less players, when groups are similiar even with other suporter arround they wont last much since they spen more time runing arround than actually supporting, so i never understood how is that even a thing, i hope it gets swaped with  druids after 4 october.

i can imagine celestial vindicator that is a all rounder, but minstrell stats meh... just a tanky mofo that spends most time runing with its urn or when swap to ventari becomes a easy target most even are worse than awfull at it.

Somehow Alliance+jalis makes more sense than with Centaur , and jalis heal and damage team reducer imo is a must, since theres already some kinda of weird support with victor.

In case of ventari If a vindi just stays there with its dome open doing nothing more besides that, it just being a awfull team player and using its class about 30%.

I'm quite lost here. Are you referring to WvW? If so, my suggestion is mainly for PvE content.

Not only that, but based on what I have heard, Vindicator still has a solid place in WvW as a Support spec in Minstrels or Celestials. Anything more than that I can't add to the discussion, as I'm not too keen on that content.

[Aeolus.3615]

7 hours ago, QuinQuin.9136 said:

I'm quite lost here. Are you referring to WvW? If so, my suggestion is mainly for PvE content.

Not only that, but based on what I have heard, Vindicator still has a solid place in WvW as a Support spec in Minstrels or Celestials. Anything more than that I can't add to the discussion, as I'm not too keen on that content.

Ah sorry, was talking towards WvW , but i  still think its still bad want to go support on pve or wvw with it.

i have a beef with pve players want every boon in every class since that's is what ruins pvp/ WvW.

For PvE i would love that Urn would improve damage since its one of the lore original effects and the less HP players have the more damage they would make.

Even on WvW what vindicator lacks is damage to players.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

33 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

i have a beef with pve players want every boon in every class since that's is what ruins pvp/ WvW.

They can adjust it to be a different boon for WvW/PvP if it’s problematic. They’re changing quickness on draconic echo for example to might in PvP/WvW specifically because of what you’re talking about. So WvW/PvP balance for alacrity/quickness shouldn’t be a concern for PvE anymore 

[Aeolus.3615]

10 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

They can adjust it to be a different boon for WvW/PvP if it’s problematic. They’re changing quickness on draconic echo for example to might in PvP/WvW specifically because of what you’re talking about. So WvW/PvP balance for alacrity/quickness shouldn’t be a concern for PvE anymore 

Feel so confusing when class do different things for each gamemode..

 

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

20 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Feel so confusing when class do different things for each gamemode..

 

That may be true to an extent, but swapping out a boon isn't really that big of a problem and they are already balancing like this anyway

[Za Shaloc.3908]

3 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Feel so confusing when class do different things for each gamemode..

 

I agree with you completely on this (I sympathize for any new players), but now that they've started, I'd prefer if they go full force with it to help remedy the balance issues that exist due to things having previously been across all game modes. They need to make it more clear for players though, like a (disable-able) giant popup in order to proceed to PvP/WvW that clearly states the vast difference in skill balance between game modes. Is their new approach messy, confusing, and unintuitive? Yes. But I'm actually happy that they're breaking their own rules because it means more accurate and game-specific balance for the future. One can hope, at least. 

[QuinQuin.9136]

On 9/19/2022 at 6:09 PM, Za Shaloc.3908 said:

I agree with you completely on this (I sympathize for any new players), but now that they've started, I'd prefer if they go full force with it to help remedy the balance issues that exist due to things having previously been across all game modes. They need to make it more clear for players though, like a (disable-able) giant popup in order to proceed to PvP/WvW that clearly states the vast difference in skill balance between game modes. Is their new approach messy, confusing, and unintuitive? Yes. But I'm actually happy that they're breaking their own rules because it means more accurate and game-specific balance for the future. One can hope, at least. 

Fully agreed. Now that they have opened this door, new ideas and changes can begin to flood through and new innovative changes could drastically increase the number of ways Professions and Elites can be played as they are no longed mechanically tied to each game mode.

[SWLDguitar.5746]

On 9/19/2022 at 4:35 AM, Aeolus.3615 said:

Ah sorry, was talking towards WvW , but i  still think its still bad want to go support on pve or wvw with it.

i have a beef with pve players want every boon in every class since that's is what ruins pvp/ WvW.

For PvE i would love that Urn would improve damage since its one of the lore original effects and the less HP players have the more damage they would make.

Even on WvW what vindicator lacks is damage to players.

Yes, boon requirements are sterilizing the game.  At this point they should just remove them all so that every spec can play....  That won't happen, but that's how they truly balance it.

 

I play Heal Vindi in WvW.  It is very fun. Jalis and Alliance stance w/ staff / staff.  Using elite damage reductions constantly.  I feel immortal at times.  I run both staves with Stamina/Energy sigils.  So long as i staff 5 through the zerg, i contribute enough to help our dps pick apart those who lost their stability from me.  When the kills start coming in, i become a pogo stick of barrier and healing (and condi clease).  I have very little damage, but that isn't what's important in the role it plays in WvW - it's for heals, barrier, cleanse, stab rip, stab road, & mild boons. 

[Aeolus.3615]

21 hours ago, SWLDguitar.5746 said:

Yes, boon requirements are sterilizing the game.  At this point they should just remove them all so that every spec can play....  That won't happen, but that's how they truly balance it.

 

I play Heal Vindi in WvW.  It is very fun. Jalis and Alliance stance w/ staff / staff.  Using elite damage reductions constantly.  I feel immortal at times.  I run both staves with Stamina/Energy sigils.  So long as i staff 5 through the zerg, i contribute enough to help our dps pick apart those who lost their stability from me.  When the kills start coming in, i become a pogo stick of barrier and healing (and condi clease).  I have very little damage, but that isn't what's important in the role it plays in WvW - it's for heals, barrier, cleanse, stab rip, stab road, & mild boons. 

Yes stack 80 minstrell "healers" are important in WvW.

And Staff 5 always to push to the other side 🙂 btw wont celestial gear and GS/staff on Vindicator/jalis  would make u a better contribution to the group while u can assist bursts and spike calls with power stats as well?

The leaps  effects on 4th October will be dope and fixed tho which  will improve the traits effect 🙂 IMO that will be a good boost for non minstrells to push to more a frontline bruiser with support capabilities.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[SWLDguitar.5746]

On 9/23/2022 at 11:30 AM, Aeolus.3615 said:

Yes stack 80 minstrell "healers" are important in WvW.

And Staff 5 always to push to the other side 🙂 btw wont celestial gear and GS/staff on Vindicator/jalis  would make u a better contribution to the group while u can assist bursts and spike calls with power stats as well?

The leaps  effects on 4th October will be dope and fixed tho which  will improve the traits effect 🙂 IMO that will be a good boost for non minstrells to push to more a frontline bruiser with support capabilities.

If your dps is doing their job, they won't need wimpy dps to help.  

I don't want to be caught in GS when i should be in staff.  As previously stated, so long as i Staff 5 through a zerg there's a big contribution.  Swap endurance sigil helps keep survivability high via pogo-sticking dodges.

I use "Versed in Stone" so i do have some power- just enough that if i'm in a 1v1 situation i can defend myself.  Damage is not your goal.  You soak damage, -you want to have Rite of the Great Dwarf or Urn rolling, with Unyielding Devotion, Close Quarters, and Determined Resolution being supplemental reductions.

 

Not sure how i would feel about it in Cele gear with a hybrid role.  I don't think you would have the energy to upkeep the damage reductions needed in a hybrid role.

[Aeolus.3615]

19 hours ago, SWLDguitar.5746 said:

If your dps is doing their job, they won't need wimpy dps to help.  

I don't want to be caught in GS when i should be in staff.  As previously stated, so long as i Staff 5 through a zerg there's a big contribution.  Swap endurance sigil helps keep survivability high via pogo-sticking dodges.

I use "Versed in Stone" so i do have some power- just enough that if i'm in a 1v1 situation i can defend myself.  Damage is not your goal.  You soak damage, -you want to have Rite of the Great Dwarf or Urn rolling, with Unyielding Devotion, Close Quarters, and Determined Resolution being supplemental reductions.

 

Not sure how i would feel about it in Cele gear with a hybrid role.  I don't think you would have the energy to upkeep the damage reductions needed in a hybrid role.

That's interesting, but when ic a vindicator with a urn I KNOW he cant be healed that's the perfect time to  call target with a range + CC spike, they go down instantly for my exp or need to break LoS and run away form hot zone.

for soaking damage i still prefer herald since jalis f2 its still a party damage reducer (but with the 4th october leap changes to vindicator vindicator m8 become bit better since has more leaps to apply barrier and cleanse condis )and if u have a tempest their protection is stronger which will help the party far more than a vindicator with alliance IMO.

EDIT: my issue with vindi  is that URN  does not work like gw lore skill and the skill we had in gw1 wich it should and will be better for the vindi and the party.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[SWLDguitar.5746]

4 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

That's interesting, but when ic a vindicator with a urn I KNOW he cant be healed that's the perfect time to  call target with a range + CC spike, they go down instantly for my exp or need to break LoS and run away form hot zone.

for soaking damage i still prefer herald since jalis f2 its still a party damage reducer (but with the 4th october leap changes to vindicator vindicator m8 become bit better since has more leaps to apply barrier and cleanse condis )and if u have a tempest their protection is stronger which will help the party far more than a vindicator with alliance IMO.

EDIT: my issue with vindi  is that URN  does not work like gw lore skill and the skill we had in gw1 wich it should and will be better for the vindi and the party.

 

Understood.  I'm not saying it's ground breaking, just fun.  If you have Versed in Stone available and holding Urn, you're basically immortal for 5 seconds (Reductions: Urn 50%, ViS 50%, Protection 33%, Unyielding Devotion 15%, Close Quarters 10%, and Determined Resolution 10%), even when not being able to be healed.

You are very tough, but do understand the scenario you laid out.

I try to drop the Urn only via legend swap so that it's instant and try to dodge directly after or during the swap. 

The only time i have ever been bursted out is when i got stab ripped and pulled out of the blob and cc'd forever which no body survives. Between Staff 3/5, Dodge(s) and AboutFace - Battle Dance, it's pretty hard to actually "get me". 

 

I think it's underrated and overshadowed by easier to play specs.  Not everyone wants to put in the effort to actually learn it.

[Aeolus.3615]

3 hours ago, SWLDguitar.5746 said:

Understood.  I'm not saying it's ground breaking, just fun.  If you have Versed in Stone available and holding Urn, you're basically immortal for 5 seconds (Reductions: Urn 50%, ViS 50%, Protection 33%, Unyielding Devotion 15%, Close Quarters 10%, and Determined Resolution 10%), even when not being able to be healed.

You are very tough, but do understand the scenario you laid out.

I try to drop the Urn only via legend swap so that it's instant and try to dodge directly after or during the swap. 

The only time i have ever been bursted out is when i got stab ripped and pulled out of the blob and cc'd forever which no body survives. Between Staff 3/5, Dodge(s) and AboutFace - Battle Dance, it's pretty hard to actually "get me". 

 

I think it's underrated and overshadowed by easier to play specs.  Not everyone wants to put in the effort to actually learn it.

 

Still...thats basically self surviability  mostly while keep condis cleanses with heals with staff 4 and tree song.

But like u said its a blob gameplay.... and i despise that content cause its stack 80 minstells with perma all boons  and ur good to go, @25 ,might every one has 2k power at least while on full minstrell and all defensive stats and all boons...

So basicly vindicator behind the zerg.

I will be happy IF the squad i have can reach 10 players.

EDI T: Anet kinda F* vindi damage but i leave that for players to discover.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Anonynja.3172]

On 9/15/2022 at 2:41 AM, khawki.4205 said:

I believe that thier idea for Vindicator is just not suited to current meta. I think the idea would to be to run something like Zealot's (power, precision, healing power). And be off-healing dps. 

It does sound weird, I know, but when you look at the kit and how to make use out of swapping, it kind of makes sense. I have no idea if it would actually work, but maybe it's worth testing on strikes.

I have tested Zealot stats and your DPS tanks so badly it's not at all worth taking. The spec is half-designed. I have no idea what they want to accomplish with Vindicator, but right now Saint Viktor is mostly dead weight. You can get solid selfish DPS with the Archemorous or pure healing with Saint Viktor. No viable hybrid play. I am hoping we eventually get a viable power DPS healer with Vindicator. Revenant already has quickness and alacrity, so I hope they find another niche for Vindicator to fill.

[Angesombre.4630]

Just an idea I had, I don't think a lot of people like this but to make the alliance individually stronger, why with the strokes actually it didn't allow you to choose a legend. I mean this trait makes for example the red side add a lot of power, but you can't switch to blue. That would improve dps and skills. I don't know if my idea is very clear. With the healing there could be more buffs to give in return you can't switch to the red side of the alliance. The alliance remains a double legend but could be played individually with the other color.

There could be only one trait used for the red side and one for the blue side.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Angesombre.4630

[ArthurDent.9538]

On 10/4/2022 at 5:12 PM, Anonynja.3172 said:

I have tested Zealot stats and your DPS tanks so badly it's not at all worth taking. The spec is half-designed. I have no idea what they want to accomplish with Vindicator, but right now Saint Viktor is mostly dead weight. You can get solid selfish DPS with the Archemorous or pure healing with Saint Viktor. No viable hybrid play. I am hoping we eventually get a viable power DPS healer with Vindicator. Revenant already has quickness and alacrity, so I hope they find another niche for Vindicator to fill.

Victor is absolutely useful on dps specs. You just use it in more emergency situations, or when you have downtime phases where you need healing but not dps.