CrashTestAuto.9108 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 37 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said: Yes but they are not rewarding or hard enough have been the answer they gave before. Thanks, I'm glad someone is reading my posts, I'm getting tired of typing that out 😂 They're also not very quick to access is the third reason for this not being a practical alternative. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent.6137 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: In my ideal world, I'd actually prefer for strikes and dungeons to just scale from 1-5 (with some difficulty increases other than bigger health pools). As I've said, I enjoy group content, I just also want it to be available solo. This is the issue. What you are suggesting is a scaled down fight against a Strike boss with certain group mechanics eliminated as a practice mode for group encounters. Eliminating those, it'll just be a straight up solo boss fight with little resemblance to group Strikes and will hardly apply to them when in a group. 8 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: "Obsessed" is a bit strong. Yes, it is. And I did struggle to find an appropriate word but settled on that considering your persistence in advocating for a game mode that majority of the posters here do not think is a good idea. 8 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: The problem with the things you listed is that they're boring. Strikes and Fractals because of health pools not scaling and DRMs because of just horrible design (unfortunately). If the health pools scaled in Strikes, it wouldn't be my ideal, but it would basically resolve my request (as I've said). Boring? What I had listed is exactly what you're asking for but in solo mode. How would making it into solo instance suddenly transform it into an interesting mode? And they all do scale. I've tried a few of them solo personally when trying to get certain achievements especially Fractals. Strikes, as well but just the easier ones that do not require group mechanics. Again, I honestly do not understand why so many people think DRMs has horrible designs or not engaging. Why? It's much better than than some of the extremely boring straight-up snorefest boss fights of the easier Strikes, which is basically, DPS the boss to death. 8 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: Honestly, please do bother to repeat them. A bullet pointed list of the arguments you think are most compelling in this thread would be great. (It would be good for someone who thinks there are good counter-arguments to summarise, because for the vast majority of this thread I actually think scrumsome's summary above is pretty accurate. For what it's worth, the most compelling argument I've seen is probably balancing and some mechanics not working, but that is a tiny fraction of what has been posted. Erm....how about no? You expect me to go through all these pages and summarize for you? You've practically debated everyone on those points and should be familiar with them. And no, scrumsome's summary is less than accurate. It is a complete generalization piece. So far, I doubt you've managed to convince anyone, including myself. So your pro arguments are about as compelling as anyone else's. That is, nothing all of us had said so far is enough to change the course of the debates. Edited January 8, 2023 by Silent.6137 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashTestAuto.9108 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said: What you are suggesting is a scaled down fight against a Strike boss with certain group mechanics eliminated as a practice mode for group encounters. Eliminating those, it'll just be a straight up solo boss fight with little resemblance to group Strikes and will hardly apply to them when in a group. Very few mechanics need to be eliminated as far as I've seen presented. Split circles, KO numbers, and the AH CM sniper? Maybe a couple of others? Honestly not gone through this in much detail, but the broad fights aren't hugely reliant on group specific mechanics, and strikes are already soloable. 13 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said: Boring? What I had listed is exactly what you're asking for but in solo mode. How would making it into solo instance suddenly transform it into an interesting mode? And they all do scale. I've tried a few of them solo personally when trying to get certain achievements especially Fractals. Strikes, as well but just the easier ones that do not require group mechanics. Again, I honestly do not understand why so people think DRMs has horrible designs or not engaging. Why? It's much better than than some of the extremely boring straight-up snorefest boss fights of the easier Strikes, which is basically, DPS the boss to death. I'm glad you enjoy them. For me it's mainly the opening few minutes, and then a few of them also have dull event chains before the boss fight. 15 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said: Erm....how about no? You expect me to go through all these pages and summarize for you? You've practically debated everyone on those points and should be familiar with them. And no, scrumsome's summary is less than accurate. It is a complete generalization piece. So far, I doubt you've managed to convince anyone, including myself. So your pro arguments are about as compelling as anyone else's. That is, nothing all of us had said so far is enough to change the course of the debates. I don't expect you to do anything. But a summarised list would be helpful. You think this is a bad idea, so I would have assumed you could just list your own thoughts on the best reasons for that off the top of your head. Otherwise, yeah, I think scrumsome's summary is pretty accurate. Almost every argument has been to go and play something that isn't the thing I'm suggesting (either another game, group content, DRMs, or Open World champs), that it's an "MMO", or that too many mechanics would need removing (which doesn't seem to me to be true, or at least hasn't been thoroughly argued). Then it's just been people saying they want resourcing spent on other things, which is fine, but not actually an argument and given I'm specifically looking to keep the resourcing low, I don't think that compelling either. The fact this has gone on for pages isn't because there have been a ton of different points presented, there's just been a LOT of repetition. The one potentially good argument I've seen (at least that I remember) is around balancing, but that hasn't been really dug into beyond just saying it would be difficult. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent.6137 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: I don't expect you to do anything. But a summarised list would be helpful. You think this is a bad idea, so I would have assumed you could just list your own thoughts on the best reasons for that off the top of your head. Otherwise, yeah, I think scrumsome's summary is pretty accurate. Combing through the pages to summarize the points that everyone has presented. Doing so will just bring about you debating those very same points with me. Just repeating the same thing. Which will lead aboslutely nowhere. You think scrumsome's summary is pretty accurate because it supports your stance. It is nothing more than a generalization that a select few posters had said...not everyone. If anything, it is pretty inaccurate because it ignores everything else that anyone else had said. Edited January 9, 2023 by Silent.6137 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Linken.6345 said: Yes but they are not rewarding or hard enough have been the answer they gave before. Chances are he doesn't even know what the rewards are, seeing how he also wasn't aware he can replay more specific parts of the story by entering them through those violets stars, when in the last thread about it he tried to use "can't replay the story on the same character" as argument against replaying it in the first place 😉 Pretty sure EoD story rewards gen3 leggy materials daily (Tale of Adventure) for replaying it. 1 hour ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: They're also not very quick to access is the third reason "Reason" as false as it was in another thread you've made about it 3 months ago, where you've tried saying the story can't be replayed on the same character and where you've been informed those stories' more specific points can be accessed by using the pruple stars. You wanted a soloable stepping stone to strikes, but when it was pointed out the eod story fights were made as that in the first place, you responded it doesn't teach anything. I don't know why you expect any other result by another -and yet the same- attempt to turn strikes into soloable version when that's what they already did. And you know it because it was repeatedly mentioned to you, including the direct quote from anet about designing eod story/strkes progression. Edited January 8, 2023 by Sobx.1758 1 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bladestrom.6425 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 'I want to play content X' Game supplies content Y which is the same as X. 'No I want to play content X.' Its hard to argue with that lol. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roederich.2716 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) Lord Hizen solos any content. you can watch his youtube channel if you cant solo anything. is the MacGyver of guild wars. here https://www.youtube.com/@LordHizen/videos solo old lions court on his first try. solo harvest temple… solo kaineng overlook strikes all this. gw2 is definately still solo mmo. Edited January 8, 2023 by roederich.2716 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: Thanks, I'm glad someone is reading my posts, I'm getting tired of typing that out 😂 They're also not very quick to access is the third reason for this not being a practical alternative. Except how rewarding or hard any solo content that exists is irrelevant. If Anet is making content people can solo, that content exists. it's too hard? not hard enough? The game can't cater to individual capabilities. It doesn't reward enough? Too bad. It doesn't need to ... if there is solo content, it PROBABLY not there for you to grind for megaloots to begin with. The fact remains by definition, if you can solo it, it's soloable content. That simply depends on how capable a player you are. The bottomline here: if there is content people can solo in the game, it COUNTS towards whatever "need solo content" is being discussed here. If you want more solo content ... git gud Edited January 9, 2023 by Obtena.7952 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashTestAuto.9108 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 12 hours ago, Silent.6137 said: Combing through the pages to summarize the points that everyone has presented. Doing so will just bring about you debating those very same points with me. Just repeating the same thing. Which will lead aboslutely nowhere. You think scrumsome's summary is pretty accurate because it supports your stance. It is nothing more than a generalization that a select few posters had said...not everyone. If anything, it is pretty inaccurate because it ignores everything else that anyone else had said. I didn't ask for everyone's. I said it would be useful to have a list of the points you thought were strongest. Now you're just waving at "everything else", but I have no meaning to attach to that. I've listed the arguments I remember, and explained why I don't find them compelling. If you think I've missed something in "everything else" then okay, but there's not much I can say in response to that. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashTestAuto.9108 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 11 hours ago, roederich.2716 said: Lord Hizen solos any content. you can watch his youtube channel if you cant solo anything. is the MacGyver of guild wars. here https://www.youtube.com/@LordHizen/videos solo old lions court on his first try. solo harvest temple… solo kaineng overlook strikes all this. gw2 is definately still solo mmo. Yup, which actually supports my position, because it shows the mechanics work for solo without any resources at all. It's just that the health pools mean that the fights are crazy long, even for Lord Hizen. I've said several times I'd be happy with health pool scaling, even though that isn't perfect. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashTestAuto.9108 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 10 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said: Except how rewarding or hard any solo content that exists is irrelevant. If Anet is making content people can solo, that content exists. it's too hard? not hard enough? The game can't cater to individual capabilities. It doesn't reward enough? Too bad. It doesn't need to ... if there is solo content, it PROBABLY not there for you to grind for megaloots to begin with. The fact remains by definition, if you can solo it, it's soloable content. That simply depends on how capable a player you are. The bottomline here: if there is content people can solo in the game, it COUNTS towards whatever "need solo content" is being discussed here. If you want more solo content ... git gud I'm not sure where you got that summary of the topic from, because it isn't what the thread is asking for (it is asking for end-game solo content), and it isn't what I'm asking for (I'm asking for difficult and rewarding solo content). Obviously the game has solo content. Noone is asking for that, despite many, many responses for some reason repeating it. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 2 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: I'm asking for difficult and rewarding solo content Still haven't heard what makes DRMs not qualify... 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: Yup, which actually supports my position, because it shows the mechanics work for solo without any resources at all. It's just that the health pools mean that the fights are crazy long, even for Lord Hizen. I've said several times I'd be happy with health pool scaling, even though that isn't perfect. No, it shows that this game is already designed for being solo able, you are simply unwilling to accept the effort it requires versus the reward you acquire. There is a ton of solo content, but when you are rewarded with only 1 rare or 2 for 15 minutes work, many do not see any point in finishing that content, why? Because solo participating in other content, predominantly open world content, rewards so much more. That doesn't mean solo content doesn't exist. It means you are unhappy with how it is balanced (in all regards). Others have mentioned Dragon Response Missions, which are quite lucrative, and there does not seem to be a large flock of players driven there. In short, what you want is not only solo content. You want solo content to your liking, at your desired difficulty level with a significant enough reward that you feel it is worth doing this content. Any deviation on any of these aspects makes you deem the content not actually "solo content", which is incorrect. This demand is near impossible to implement within the current constraints of the games design, seeing how the most lucrative content is brain afk following a blob through metas. Edited January 9, 2023 by Cyninja.2954 3 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashTestAuto.9108 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said: No, it shows that this game is already designed for being solo able, you are simply unwilling to accept the effort it requires versus the reward you acquire. There is a ton of solo content, but when you are rewarded with only 1 rare or 2 for 15 minutes work, many do not see any point in finishing that content, why? Because solo participating in other content, predominantly open world content, rewards so much more. That doesn't mean solo content doesn't exist. It means you are unhappy with how it is balanced (in all regards). Others have mentioned Dragon Response Missions, which are quite lucrative, and there does not seem to be a large flock of players driven there. In short, what you want is not only solo content. You want solo content to your liking, at your desired difficulty level with a significant enough reward that you feel it is worth doing this content. Any deviation on any of these aspects makes you deem the content not actually "solo content", which is incorrect. This demand is near impossible to implement within the current constraints of the games design, seeing how the most lucrative content is brain afk following a blob through metas. When have I ever deemed any content "not actually solo content"? I've said that certain content isn't difficult, or rewarding, or engaging (DRMs fail on at least difficulty, and I think in the majority of views, also on engaging. Not looked at the rewards in a while, but not really relevant if not fun to play.), but that is a completely different claim to "not actually solo content". Edited January 9, 2023 by CrashTestAuto.9108 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 The goalposts have broken the sound barrier. 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashTestAuto.9108 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said: The goalposts have broken the sound barrier. By all means show your working, but DRMs are not engaging (in my view, and a lot of others) or difficult, and I've been setting the bar at least with those two criteria for this entire thread. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Boz.2038 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 minute ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: By all means show your working, but DRMs are not engaging (in my view, and a lot of others) or difficult, and I've been setting the bar at least with those two criteria for this entire thread. They have difficulty options. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashTestAuto.9108 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 Just now, The Boz.2038 said: They have difficulty options. I'm not sure how to respond to this without being snarky. Have you actually tried those difficulty options? Even if they actually made them difficult, they still don't fix the engaging problem. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: I'm not sure how to respond to this without being snarky. Have you actually tried those difficulty options? Even if they actually made them difficult, they still don't fix the engaging problem. solo strike missions would be just the same, solo instanced content is not engaging content. It’s boring and almost no one would play it. You are fighting a lost cause here. Edited January 9, 2023 by yoni.7015 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: I'm not sure how to respond to this without being snarky. Have you actually tried those difficulty options? Even if they actually made them difficult, they still don't fix the engaging problem. If drms are bad, you can also solo low fractals, dungeons and bounties, at the very least. If those take you too long, it just means you have room to improve. Apparently why you didn't like "practicing with group" is because you were "risking wiping the group": And if that's the case, I fail to see how you can deem the content you're talking about above "too easy". Honorable mention of you bringing up "strikes scaling to solo story", but at the same time in that thread you were saying "story doesn't teach anything". 🤔 You're all over the place with what you're saying in these threads, the goalpost really do fly around with the speed of sound. Edited January 9, 2023 by Sobx.1758 4 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashTestAuto.9108 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: If drms are bad, you can also solo low fractals, dungeons and bounties, at the very least. If those take you too long, it just means you have room to improve. Apparently why you didn't like "practicing with group" is because you were "risking wiping the group": And if that's the case, I fail to see how you can deem the content you're talking about above "too easy". You're all over the place with what you're saying in these threads. Again, I have no interest in conversation with you. I have asked you to stop this. Why on Earth you're so committed to speaking to me that you're digging up my post history from September is beyond me. Especially as I answered your point in this post on the first page of this thread: On 9/26/2022 at 10:23 AM, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: The problem with things like "Go solo fractals and dungeons (and CRMs)" is that this gets fairly dull quite quickly because the health pools aren't designed for it. It's like in a single player game when the hard mode just turns enemies into bullet sponges. Moreover, because gold per hour is a thing, you have the nagging feeling that you're wasting your time as you slowly chip down enemy health that isn't designed for one player. Please don't take this as an invitation to further discussion. I really do not wish to interact with you. I'm just trying to demonstrate why. Repeating myself is annoying. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: Again, I have no interest in conversation with you. I have asked you to stop this. Why on Earth you're so committed to speaking to me that you're digging up my post history from September is beyond me. I'm not "digging up your post history", I simply remember that thread we both participated in and it was pretty similar to this one. As I already said previously, you're just repeating what you said in the past and what people responded to already. 4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: Especially as I answered your point in this post on the first page of this thread: The problem with things like "Go solo fractals and dungeons (and CRMs)" is that this gets fairly dull quite quickly because the health pools aren't designed for it. It's like in a single player game when the hard mode just turns enemies into bullet sponges. Moreover, because gold per hour is a thing, you have the nagging feeling that you're wasting your time as you slowly chip down enemy health that isn't designed for one player. And what is said about it is this (at least in the post you've just quoted): If those take you too long, it just means you have room to improve. Even in the post I've just linked above, you're saying this: "Story missions do nothing to teach mechanics, or let you know if you're being carried." Well, if that content takes you that long then consider yourself getting carried and understand you can improve, apparently that was part of your goal here? It surely isn't just about having a quick repeatable farm, so the main point isn't about "harder content", but in reality just "give me more rewards faster"? Let's go further into what you keep repeating to everyone because for now you're rather vague about it: What would you consider to be "rewarding"? What exactly "engaging" means to you? What do you consider "hard" or "easy"? 4 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: Repeating myself is annoying. That's ironic, seeing how -as I already reminded you a few pages ago where you said you won't be re-reading anything- everything you're saying now, you're simply repeating from -at least- this and that september thread. Edited January 9, 2023 by Sobx.1758 repetaing -> repeating 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: I'm not sure where you got that summary of the topic from, because it isn't what the thread is asking for (it is asking for end-game solo content), and it isn't what I'm asking for (I'm asking for difficult and rewarding solo content). And I'm telling you there is endgame solo content because people solo endgame content all the time. And it is difficult and rewarding because obviously, it's hard for most people to do it and recognize they can solo it. The whole thread a joke because there isn't any difference between what you are asking for and what exists already. Edited January 9, 2023 by Obtena.7952 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 1 hour ago, CrashTestAuto.9108 said: The problem with things like "Go solo fractals and dungeons (and CRMs)" is that this gets fairly dull quite quickly because the health pools aren't designed for it. It's like in a single player game when the hard mode just turns enemies into bullet sponges. Moreover, because gold per hour is a thing, you have the nagging feeling that you're wasting your time as you slowly chip down enemy health that isn't designed for one player. So, current solo challenges are dull and unrewarding because they take too long on account of the enemies having too much health. The solution you propose is to create solo content with enemies that have better rewards and less health. The problem is that not everyone performs at the same level. In fact, the disparity in performance in terms of damage output between the high end and the average player is a well-travelled path of discussion on this forum. This is complicated by the fact that players who struggle to deal decent damage often perform dramatically worse where there are mechanics to deal with. Even story bosses which are designed for accessible solo play demonstrate this problem. For example, if I search youtube for the "Eater of Souls" story boss the first video on the list shows a weaver's guide on how to "cheese" this fight. 13 minutes later the player is triumphant, having cleverly trapped the enemy on some rocks where it couldn't fight back. And here's another video of a different weaver completing the same fight in 17 seconds by just running up to the boss, breaking its defiance bar, and burning it down. This is a major problem for lucrative solo content. How do you balance the encounters and rewards so that the average player isn't frustrated or feeling like they're wasting their time while avoiding a scenario where players who know what they're doing can't just farm easy mode encounters for stupid amounts of gold? There's also the implications for the rest of the game to consider. If I'm spending all day in solo content it means I'm not spending it participating in groups. And why wouldn't I if I'm above the curve this content was designed for and can make a lot more gold for my time as a result? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashTestAuto.9108 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 25 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said: So, current solo challenges are dull and unrewarding because they take too long on account of the enemies having too much health. The solution you propose is to create solo content with enemies that have better rewards and less health. The problem is that not everyone performs at the same level. In fact, the disparity in performance in terms of damage output between the high end and the average player is a well-travelled path of discussion on this forum. This is complicated by the fact that players who struggle to deal decent damage often perform dramatically worse where there are mechanics to deal with. Even story bosses which are designed for accessible solo play demonstrate this problem. For example, if I search youtube for the "Eater of Souls" story boss the first video on the list shows a weaver's guide on how to "cheese" this fight. 13 minutes later the player is triumphant, having cleverly trapped the enemy on some rocks where it couldn't fight back. And here's another video of a different weaver completing the same fight in 17 seconds by just running up to the boss, breaking its defiance bar, and burning it down. This is a major problem for lucrative solo content. How do you balance the encounters and rewards so that the average player isn't frustrated or feeling like they're wasting their time while avoiding a scenario where players who know what they're doing can't just farm easy mode encounters for stupid amounts of gold? There's also the implications for the rest of the game to consider. If I'm spending all day in solo content it means I'm not spending it participating in groups. And why wouldn't I if I'm above the curve this content was designed for and can make a lot more gold for my time as a result? These are good points to consider, but I'm not sure why they aren't solved by simply pitching the difficulty at roughly the level of existing Strike missions (NM and CM), and adjusting the rewards to either be the same, or slightly reduced. By nature of the current rewards being primarily daily/weekly, you can't spend all day in them farmingm and anyone who would be affected by the difficulty curve would be equally affected by group content (ignoring the effect of carrying). Moreover, I actually view this as a "Soft" DPS meter, which is another difficult issue that is discussed. A lot of players simply don't know where they fall on the skill curve, so giving a set of solo challenges offers a stress-free environment to get up to a certain standard. Obviously there are issues with non-DPS roles, and group composition to consider beyond this, but it's a start. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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