Make revenant mallyx + corruption traits better

[arazoth.7290]

Just make them more impactful.

 

Few examples to add/change ontop the already existing effects: 

 

Empowering misery:  On use transfers 1 condi/per sec for 5 second duration to enemies around you in 300 radius. (Since resistance isn't like how it use to be)

Call to anguish: 0,75 second cast time => 0,5 second cast time. while leaping to the target, you evade in the 0,5 second window too. Leap combo finisher is stil here.

Banish enchantment: Instead of the 3 boon removed, let it corrupt 3 boons.

Pain Absorption: When you pull the few condis from allies on yourself, revert them back to enemies in 360 radius around you

Embrace the darkness: I like this upkeep skill personaly, but add some more purple pulsating outwards while this is active (animation wise).

 

Corruption traitline:

 

1st row: Diabolic inferno: Give 1 more stack of poison and burning on use of invoke torment, if you have more suggestions feel free.

Mid row: Remove the trait around resistance completly and change it for something else ( be free to add suggestions ).

3rd row: replenishing despair: it could stay if these changes were made according to condi manipulation. Otherwise replace it.

                 Permeating pestilence: Atm transfering 2 condis => 3 condi transfer.

Edited January 4, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[soul.9651]

12 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Pain Absorption: When you pull the few condis from allies on yourself, revert them back to enemies in 360 radius around you

i rly like this one because rn this skill is just so bad at pve.. this change would sound op in pvp or wvw, but at least at pve they could rly change this skill into something like you suggesting rn.

[arazoth.7290]

14 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

i rly like this one because rn this skill is just so bad at pve.. this change would sound op in pvp or wvw, but at least at pve they could rly change this skill into something like you suggesting rn.

yes for pve it would be nice upgrade also and for pvp if it is too much, make it revert to enemies with not over 2-3 sec duration for balancing, so it still more use.

[Antycypator.9874]

Corruption traitline is so bad, that condi DPS without Corruption is still good, but honestly I like it — condi rev isn't locked with only 2 builds, where corruption is must have.

Straight +condi damage stats does really little in terms of damage, because stat coefficient to actual condi damage is 0,06, so +120 condi damage results in 7 damage.

Seething Malice: Instead of stat increase, I would make more synergy with Resistance — Outgoing condition damage is increased by 10% when you have Resistance on you.

Acolyte of Torment: When you strike a foe with at least 5 stacks of torment, inflict chill on nearby foes (CD: 5 seconds). When you add Abyssal Chill, you get nice synergy.

 

[Uete.3805]

I agree, given the current state of Mallyx and Resistance, that Empowering Misery should remove any damaging condis on you on top of its other effects (and maybe make its healing be unaffected by poison?)

In any case the main issue is the Resistance change and the lack of damaging conditions on Mallyx (except for the elite). A good option would be to buff Abyssal Chill to apply 3 torment in pve and 2 in competitive modes, as that could synergize well with Vindicator too. The other option would be to give burning to Call to Anguish and poison to banish enchantment (when removing boons). I'd want both tbh.

Regarding the traits, I would swap Demonic Resistance with Fiendish Tenacity (Mid 2 and Mid 3) and then make Demonic Resistance give you immunity to damaging condis when you have resistance, essentially making resistance work like it used to.

Pain absorbtion is a pain, so maybe make it transfer some damaging conditions with your next hits or have a toggle skill that sends damaging condis to nearby foes.

Thanks for starting this thread! I think it's time for more Mallyx changes :3

[otto.5684]

IMO, beside resistance Mallyx should have near constant up time on resolution. All the traits and skills that provide resistance and should also provide resolution. Reminder, resistance used to block all condi damage, so having both resistance and resolution is not remotely over performing.

And major grand master, Fendish Tenacity, resistance heals you for 100hp/50hp in pvp, for every condition on you. This should spice things up, where the more types of conditions the enemy puts on you the stronger you heal. Mallyx was supposed to be anti condi. This forces enemies to play smart and try to focus on increasing stacks of a specific condi on you, versus going unga banga. 
 

Note, this could be too powerful in wvw, but the healing amount could be adjusted up or down per game mode.

 

Edited October 9, 2022 by otto.5684

[Shao.7236]

23 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

IMO, beside resistance Mallyx should have near constant up time on resolution. All the traits and skills that provide resistance and should also provide resolution. Reminder, resistance used to block all condi damage, so having both resistance and resolution is not remotely over performing.

And major grand master, Fendish Tenacity, resistance heals you for 100hp/50hp in pvp, for every condition on you. This should spice things up, where the more types of conditions the enemy puts on you the stronger you heal. Mallyx was supposed to be anti condi. This forces enemies to play smart and try to focus on increasing stacks of a specific condi on you, versus going unga banga. 
 

Note, this could be too powerful in wvw, but the healing amount could be adjusted up or down per game mode.

 

Dark Aura is severely underused too and could be used more as it fits the theme of Mallyx.

Resolution can also be nearly permanent if you play with Retribution.

Mallyx does not slack too much in sustain, poison is what really wrecks it. There's also the fact that Resistance apparently doesn't negate Vulnerability either but should.

Maybe there could be a transfer utility on Mallyx but honestly, permeating pestilence is not bad and used to work fine, it's only that they nerfed it's application and number which is really big middle finger to anything that's not Herald because not only it became a predictable counter attack but it hardly transfers anything good because of spam. The skill also doesn't stack it's effect since it copies, it will technically transfer a limit of 2 which will be the same with anyone you hit rather than send any further more.

While 3 sounds like a lot, there's no way to improve on that effect since it's delayed. Any cleansing done needs to be achieved after invoke torment which is delayed a bit.

 

[Angesombre.4630]

I looked at it in comparison to a Mesmer, yes there are other classes. The Mesmer has 3 basic skills to purify.
-A mantra with 2 charges which removes 3 alterations with a CD of 25s "Mantra of Resolve", 
-Send conditions you have to your foe and steal their boons. Successfully hitting your target inflicts slow on them while granting you quickness CD 25s "Arcane Thievery"
-Create a field of energy that rips boons from foes and cures conditions on allies CD 25s and 35s WvW.

We can copy only 2 of our alterations with malyx. The other alternative is to heal the dwarf with a 30s CD.
They have reverted the sigil swap to have the same CD on the weapon as the legends and not like before where it could proc 2 times.
So there are a lot of things to review on the traits or/and the malyx legend.

[arazoth.7290]

I really wonder if there will be some changes or not upcoming patch already, since lately there are more threads around condi for revenant.

 

[Anonynja.3172]

Condi rev doesn't really need more damage, but a buff to Pain Absorption's utility would be helpful. 

And Abyssal Chill in the traitline is a very weak option. Even with the pogo-stick Vindicator on Oct 4th- spamming Chilled with Vassals of the Empire - I could only get like 17k DPS using that trait to spam torment. I rarely see it picked over the other two options in any builds. You don't proc Chilled that often, and 1 stack of 6s torment doesn't even compare to existing sigils. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Anonynja.3172

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

5 hours ago, Anonynja.3172 said:

Condi rev doesn't really need more damage, but a buff to Pain Absorption's utility would be helpful. 

And Abyssal Chill in the traitline is a very weak option. Even with the pogo-stick Vindicator on Oct 4th- spamming Chilled with Vassals of the Empire - I could only get like 17k DPS using that trait to spam torment. I rarely see it picked over the other two options in any builds. You don't proc Chilled that often, and 1 stack of 6s torment doesn't even compare to existing sigils. 

Abyssal Chill is more of a PvP trait than anything else and it's a very strong option. You can proc Chill often enough in PvP/WvW where it does add up. Banish Enchantment for example is 3 torment. Without Abyssal Chill that skill loses a lot of its value. Also, If you play with transfers (which you should as a condi rev) it turns any chill transfers into chill + torment.

[arazoth.7290]

They could give pain absorption additional effect that condis don't affect you, instead of resistance boon, with same durations effects how resistance is applied.

 

And Empowering misery on use transfers 1 condi/per sec for 5 second duration to enemies around you in 300 radius.

 

There is also a small problem with banish enchantment to make other traitlines more competitive around it.

So instead of 3 boons removed => 3 boons corrupted

Edited January 4, 2023 by arazoth.7290

[BrokenGlass.9356]

I'm going to go over my thoughts on making Mallyx more impactful. Many of the traits and utilities are weak. Or at least, feel weak. Abyssal Chill is a good example of this, very strong in pvp, nearly must take. But.... severely "meh." in pve.  some of these issues can be handled with split skills, or revamps.

 

Maths disclaimer: I'm not doing any. All the numbers you see come straight from rectal data. So if you disagree with how much torment, or how long, or how many ticks of 3k dmg, whatever. Please know that IF any of my suggestions are taken seriously by the dev team, I'd trust them to do the math and figure it out so it all works. If they haven't gotten there yet, I suspect this is more because of developers either being burnt out after YEARS at it, and could use fresh eyes. Or, those developers who are still fresh inherited the keys to the kingdom, and although they can make changes.... their job would be on the line if the changes they make aren't well received. That being said, what the dev team would need from us, is passion. if they know that we all feel passionate about changing the game in the same direction, they can work with that knowing that the changes would result in mostly positive feedback. I guarantee that devs who gut peoples favorite class have a real uncomfortable meeting with a manager about "what to do moving forward."

 

 

 

Mallyx, a study:

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmABkel7lhQKsIyiJRXMICjBSiMBqgj7kVzE-zRJYyx/ZkuUNEVlSPIhwfL8OtBA-e

I used the above build for all my reference numbers.  (it has no other bearing on my post at all.)

 

 

Empowering Misery: "Heal yourself. Heal for more foe each condition on you." Heal for: 4636, heal per condition: 600

add: gain 2 sec of resolution per condition on you in PvE, 1 sec per condi on you in PvP. Heal for more if you are Confused: 1200

 

Banish Enchantment: "Deal damage, apply chill, and remove boons from your foe." dmg 3x 399, chill 3 stax 2sec, remove 3 boons, unblockable

change: remove 3 boons into corrupt 2 boons. (i nor anyone else CARES that corrupting boons is supposed to be a necro thing...but so was death shroud and we saw how that worked out)

 

Call To Anguish: "Leap toward the targeted area and pull foes toward your landing point." dmg: 400, chill 3sec, pull 360, 5 targets. 150 defiance break

add: after the initial pull, this AoE pulses 3 times. 1 Torment for 5 sec, 1 Confusion for 10sec, 1 Poison for 20sec in PvE. in PvP 1 torment for 2 sec, 1 confusion for 4 sec, 1 poison for 10 sec.)

(the reason for adding damage here, is an attempt to encourage using more than just the elite in pve. in pvp the shorter multi condi burst would be used to capstone your existing condi stack, with counter-play allowing a savvy player to cleanse on the first pulse and ignore the latter two.)

 

 

Pain Absorption: "Grant resistance to yourself and nearby allies. absorb conditions from those allies, gaining resolution and an additional resistance per condition." 1 condi transferred, resistance 5 sec. resolution 8sec, self resistance per condi 2 sec. stun break. (Why is this like this? take condis off friendlies... and give them the ability to ignore movement condis? what movement condis? the ones you just took? this trait is fighting with itself.)

Rework: "Cleanse condis from allies in an area around you, and gain 10 sec of Resistance. For each condi cleansed from an ally gain 1 stack of 10 sec Self Confusion. For each stack of Confusion you gain, gain 4sec of resolution.

 

Embrace The Darkness: "Summon the power of the legendary daemon to transform yourself into a powerful avatar. pulse torment to nearby foes. using skills that cost energy increase the torment applied on the next pulse." dmg :100, Torment 10sec, additional torment 2 stax 10sec.

add: if you are confused, transfer 1 stack of confusion per pulse. (This is intended to work with the new version of pain absorption, so that you don't have to buy traits just to make it work. this is why confusion was introduced, both because there used to be some confusion on mallyx, and because it lends strongly to the theme. confusion has been reserved for two places in Gw2, mesmer stuff, and hitting people with maces. I think that confusion can be broadened to describe the subtle shadow magics directed at torment of the mind. It wouldn't have to be illusions specifically to cause mental anguish. Just ask anyone with a mental disorder. Just having violent thoughts can be physically painful, and confusion perfectly encapsulates this kind of pain, which a daemon would have to be a master of.)

 

 

Traits:

Unselectable 1- Invoke Torment: 1 stack 20 sec torment on legend swap.

add: 1 stack 20 sec confusion

 

Unselectable 2- Seething Malice: your condition damge is increased 120.

Remove/Replace:Seething malice is replace by Abyssal Chill - 1 stack of 12 sec torment on chill

(this has been made non-selectable, because its relative impact is low. However where it is used, it is a lynch-pin trait. making it baseline solves many of the issues with this trait without having to balance it.)

 

Unselectable 3- Yearning Empowerment: +10% condition duration to all damaging condis

Change/Update: Yearning Empowerment is combined into Acolyte of Torments: gain 10% torment damage, and 10% duration to all damaging conditions. (all revnant builds using conditions at all, will all use torment as their primary condi, making us choose whether or not to take this trait only severs to underline how the other traits dont compare and are never chosen.)

 

Top Row: The top row had multiple underperfoming traits, and had other traits clearly in competition with its purpose. in changed this trait line, as well as moved some passives around in order to make the top row into a clear row of DPS traits. we should not wonder which traits are for dps, they should be self evident.

 

Tier 1: Acolyte of Torment: Torment gets +10% damage

Remove/Replace: Acolyte of torment is replaced by Permanent Confusion: Confusion does 66% less damage on skill activation, but 100% more damage over time. (note again on these numbers. the point here is to make confusion operate more like bleeding, with the skill activation being tiny drops in the bucket, and the ticking element taking over the lions share of the damage. this is intended to make confusion less dependent on what a target is doing, and more about stack quantity. this would allow it to be "just another damaging condi" in pvp if this trait is chosen. In pvp it would be better to choose another trait, allowing confusion to punish skill activation instead. The net effect should be however, that when fighting a target that allows you to stack up tons of confusion, the ticking component should do notably more dps, if much less burst.)

 

Tier 2: Abyssal Chill: when you chill a foe, Torment them 1 stack 12 sec.

Remove/Replace:Abyssal Chill is moved, New trait- Sear the Weak!: when you apply weakness to a foe Burn them for 1 stack 8 sec. (Weakness has made an appearance in a lot of places throughout Revnant, and this will allow previously nonexistent synergies. such as burning on the Jallis road, staff two, and mace three.)

 

Tier 3: Diabolic Inferno: invoke torment applied 1 stack 20 sec poison, and 1 stack 8 sec burning (seems fine in its current state when compared against all the other changes.)

 

Mid Row: Currently the middle row wants to give you Resistance.. but resistance is significantly less good than Resiliance.... basically i cant imagine any reason to take any of the middle traits in their current iteration. even in pvp, other trait lines, and other legends synergize better as survival traits, mostly because you can still be burned up with condis.... and very, very few builds rely on weakness, blind, chill, immob, and cripple without any damaging condis at all. defending against only debuff condis can be done with any other condi cleanse.

 

Tier 1: Demonic Defiance: Gain 3sec of resistance when using a Daemon Skill.

Add: Resilience you grant lasts 30% longer

 

Tier 2: Daemonic Resistance: Incoming strike damage is reduced while you have resistance on you 20%

Change/add: Daemonic Resistance: Incoming strike damage is reduced while you have resistance on you 15% Incoming strike damage is reduced while you have resiliance on you 15%

 

Tier 3: Fiendish Tendency: invoke torment grants resistance, resistance heals you per interval. 400

Change/add: Fiendish Tendency: invoke torment grants resistance, and resiliance, resistance heals you per interval. 200 resiliance rants barrier per interval. 200

 

Bottom Row: the ultimate in maschocism technology. its a super cool idea, but if you build for condi damge, you WILL murder yourself. secondly, if you take the tier1 trait, and not the tier 3 trait.... you WILL kill yourself. However, it is my hope that with all the new access to Resiliance, perhaps surviving your own condis wouldnt be so bad now. it does strike me that it would be ok if self condi's were the highest dps potential, but thats mostly because it would require CONSTANT attention from a healer, or extremely skilled play. this could be discussed here, honestly this trait line is simeltaneously the coolest, yet the hardest to invision how it fits against the other lines.

 

Tier 1: Replenishing Despair: While maintaining an upkeep skill, energy pips are increased but apply 1 stack 10sec self torment every interval.

Change/Nerf: apply 1 stack to self for 8 sec (the duration was cut back slightly because to the aditional self damage from confusion and burning added elsewhere.)

 

Tier 2: Pact of Pain: +15% condi duration on foes, +10% condi duration on self

Add: burn yourself on crit. 1 stack 20sec. 40sec ICD. (this addition was designed to fit better into this trait line, and by having the revnant do 3 diffrent self condis, it gives the enemy a false sense of security thinking you have been bombed alot when its only been a little. also, that extra burn stack will help alot to bring our dps up to reasonable levels when using these traits. also, if using this trait to increase duration without its partner traits, puts you at risk from that one powerful stack of burning. this forces those who min-max to find a way to deal with this burn stack, or simply take a diffrent middle trait.)

 

Tier 3: Permeating Pestilence: invoke torment copies 3 condis from you to enemies.

Change/update: invoke torment copies Burning, Torment, and Confusion from yourself to your enemies.  (this is designed to only transfer the condis you can do to yourself, while leaving the revnent open to poison, both as a counterplay, and to ensure that you dont nuke yourself. thats just not fun if its too easy to die from self condis.)

 

 

 

[arazoth.7290]

To replace resistance traitlines is a good idea, since that design how it once used to be can be solved by reintroducing it in a no boon way, just an effect with x amount duration.

 

The trait around self harming for self gains, might be a little hard to balance to be usefull.

 

Something unique doesn't need to be too complex

[arazoth.7290]

On 10/8/2022 at 8:19 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

Just make them more impactful.

 

Few examples to add/change ontop the already existing effects: 

 

Empowering misery:  On use transfers 1 condi/per sec for 5 second duration to enemies around you in 300 radius. (Since resistance isn't like how it use to be)

Call to anguish: 0,75 second cast time => 0,5 second cast time. while leaping to the target, you evade in the 0,5 second window too. Leap combo finisher is stil here.

Banish enchantment: Instead of the 3 boon removed, let it corrupt 3 boons.

Pain Absorption: When you pull the few condis from allies on yourself, revert them back to enemies in 360 radius around you

Embrace the darkness: I like this upkeep skill personaly, but add some more purple pulsating outwards while this is active (animation wise).

 

Corruption traitline:

 

1st row: Diabolic inferno: Give 1 more stack of poison and burning on use of invoke torment, if you have more suggestions feel free.

Mid row: Remove the trait around resistance completly and change it for something else ( be free to add suggestions ).

3rd row: replenishing despair: it could stay if these changes were made according to condi manipulation. Otherwise replace it.

                 Permeating pestilence: Atm transfering 2 condis => 3 condi transfer.

I made a few small changes on what I wrote earlier. The changes are for empowering misery, permeating pestilencen embrace the darkness and call to anguish.