The Hard Truth in wvw

[Cyczer.7834]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Cyczer.7834 said:Wvw will keep losing people as long as anet keeps buffing classes instead of having a power creep/nerf. While I fully agree skill>class, I'd like to mention that meta came in to a place where most classes doesnt really require any brain to use if you ar in blob, THAT IS NOT COMPETITIVE .

Having tourneys back at this point would just encourage bandwagoning even more, more people will quit their servers to secure win on high tiers which is probably not healthy.

competition drives people. of course you want to win. =)

alliances will happen. meetings will yake place. plans will be made. in short, servers vs servers vs servers.

Yeah but this aint competitive, people would rather just sit in their keeps brainlessly build a few ac's afk entire day and get rewards. The differences in the class builds and the brokenness of condi slowly drives people away from the competitive scene. You probably didnt read the part that "People quits wvw cuz of that"

[ZhouX.8742]

Skill in zerging :)

Maybe years ago with Agg and stuff where a lot of their individual players were actually truly good like Serane, not now though.

WvW zerging has resorted to skin farming , ranks for the chest piece , and mind numbing re-taking towers over and over. There are hardly any anticipation fights anymore.

I would check out BDO if you wanted some of that nature but even BDO is just a spamfest of wizards/witches/zerkers but I say BDO because their Conquest scene is pretty big still compared to WvW.

[Swamurabi.7890]

Since I can't seem to access the old forums any more I'll just have to say that there was a red post about the hard truth of WvW tournaments that said there was a PERMANENT drop in player level after each tournament.

I knew I should have gotten a screen shot of it.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@ZhouX.8742 said:Skill in zerging :)

Maybe years ago with Agg and stuff where a lot of their individual players were actually truly good like Serane, not now though.

WvW zerging has resorted to skin farming , ranks for the chest piece , and mind numbing re-taking towers over and over. There are hardly any anticipation fights anymore.

I would check out BDO if you wanted some of that nature but even BDO is just a spamfest of wizards/witches/zerkers but I say BDO because their Conquest scene is pretty big still compared to WvW.

Also it's Booty Duty Online, the competitor to Fashion Wars 2.

[ThunderPanda.1872]

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:=) point is bring back tourneys hehe

Anti-point. Tournaments were a disaster for wvw. Anet recognizes this so there won't be any more. Thank goodness.

Stop parroting this. Tournament were so fun and successful that people opened their eyes and realised normal WvW is so kitten boring, especially in the era of no rewards and no nothing, the greatest updates to WvW were nightmare kraits and living story tradh mobs. The subsequent content drought and dbl of course did not help either

But i rather they actually balance the classes and finally do something about servers that actually gives them an identity, and open up dam servers to give them a chance against BG. Not every single servers need to be on conpletely equal footing from t1 to t99, they're call tiers for a reason.

But I do really want to eventually see tourney return though after solving these issues

[Sovereign.1093]

we are smarter now i hope. we know how much time to spend in wvw and rest so we dint get burned out. =)

tourneys this time around will be better. pof hot specs etc.

[Arlette.9684]

@Sovereign.1093 said:we are smarter now i hope. we know how much time to spend in wvw and rest so we dint get burned out. =)

tourneys this time around will be better. pof hot specs etc.

Now what exactly in the most recent history of GW2 gave you even the slightest notion, that they would be any better? It’s a serious question.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:we are smarter now i hope. we know how much time to spend in wvw and rest so we dint get burned out. =)

tourneys this time around will be better. pof hot specs etc.

Now what exactly in the most recent history of GW2 gave you even the slightest notion, that they would be any better? It’s a serious question.

games up to date. cant get any worse

[Arlette.9684]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:we are smarter now i hope. we know how much time to spend in wvw and rest so we dint get burned out. =)

tourneys this time around will be better. pof hot specs etc.

Now what exactly in the most recent history of GW2 gave you even the slightest notion, that they would be any better? It’s a serious question.

games up to date. cant get any worse

So you’re stipulating that because the game is already at rock bottom it can’t get any worse, so it will only get better? I beg to differ. Unlike real life where we pick ourselves up from the ashes, in online games the corporate interest just pulls the plug and scraps the project as “not worth the investment” and launches a new product in hopes, that the new product will succeed, where the old one couldn’t.

[Torolan.5816]

I am probably barking against a rather sparely leafed tree here, butI will still give it a try.

I am not against tournaments, and only if it gives the wvw the slightest sense of a permanent accomplishment. But when you bring it back, it should have places and bne held in a ring of honor, not the common wvw. Maybe instead of torturing us with the xth game of Dragonball, instead indeed make a wvw tournment

My personal opinion would be rather that guilds build their own spaces like in eve online if you are looking for permancy. Contrary to eve, GW2 is not filled with tough boys that give a skritt about honor, and Anet is not CCP who allows them to run havoc. Add positions and ritualized combat like the Loremaster or the Guild Champion who can fight against the enemy Guild champion when things turn into a stalement. Keep it strictly in wvw. I think open world duelling is as impactless as the current wvw, so this is not a voice for it.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:we are smarter now i hope. we know how much time to spend in wvw and rest so we dint get burned out. =)

tourneys this time around will be better. pof hot specs etc.

Now what exactly in the most recent history of GW2 gave you even the slightest notion, that they would be any better? It’s a serious question.

games up to date. cant get any worse

So you’re stipulating that because the game is already at rock bottom it can’t get any worse, so it will only get better? I beg to differ. Unlike real life where we pick ourselves up from the ashes, in online games the corporate interest just pulls the plug and scraps the project as “not worth the investment” and launches a new product in hopes, that the new product will succeed, where the old one couldn’t.

To know, they have to try it. for now wvw has no meaning.

[zinkz.7045]

@ThunderPanda.1872 said:

@Blockhead Magee.3092 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:=) point is bring back tourneys hehe

Anti-point. Tournaments were a disaster for wvw. Anet recognizes this so there won't be any more. Thank goodness.

Stop parroting this. Tournament were so fun and successful that people opened their eyes and realised normal WvW is so kitten boring,..

The only people who had the their eyes opened were the terminally slow, ignorant and those who played in a sort of state of delusion, in that it opened their eyes to the fact that as a competitive game mode WvW was and always has been a complete farce, upon this realization many of these people left the game mode after tournies.

The whole design from the maps, the server based system, to the 3 way system (apparently devs outside of the likes of EVE can't learn from previous games and permanently wear rose tinted specs) is fundamentally flawed as a competitive game mode, nothing meaningful has changed, tournaments would still be meaningless as "winning" is meaningless in a game mode that competitively is a total joke.

[Sovereign.1093]

no =) this is this and that is that. we will know if we have tourns. right now wvw is just a husk

[Arlette.9684]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:we are smarter now i hope. we know how much time to spend in wvw and rest so we dint get burned out. =)

tourneys this time around will be better. pof hot specs etc.

Now what exactly in the most recent history of GW2 gave you even the slightest notion, that they would be any better? It’s a serious question.

games up to date. cant get any worse

So you’re stipulating that because the game is already at rock bottom it can’t get any worse, so it will only get better? I beg to differ. Unlike real life where we pick ourselves up from the ashes, in online games the corporate interest just pulls the plug and scraps the project as “not worth the investment” and launches a new product in hopes, that the new product will succeed, where the old one couldn’t.

To know, they have to try it. for now wvw has no meaning.

To you it doesn’t. To me it’s fine.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:we are smarter now i hope. we know how much time to spend in wvw and rest so we dint get burned out. =)

tourneys this time around will be better. pof hot specs etc.

Now what exactly in the most recent history of GW2 gave you even the slightest notion, that they would be any better? It’s a serious question.

games up to date. cant get any worse

So you’re stipulating that because the game is already at rock bottom it can’t get any worse, so it will only get better? I beg to differ. Unlike real life where we pick ourselves up from the ashes, in online games the corporate interest just pulls the plug and scraps the project as “not worth the investment” and launches a new product in hopes, that the new product will succeed, where the old one couldn’t.

To know, they have to try it. for now wvw has no meaning.

To you it doesn’t. To me it’s fine.

=) its ok to disagree.

[LetoII.3782]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

Booty Duty Online, the competitor to Fashion Wars 2.I lol'd

[b k.1648]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:winning the week has no meaning now.

players quit now for whatever reason. players rest then come back

So to fix this, you're going to get them to quit permanently. K.

or the opposite. they will play more because it has meaning by tournaments. Glory of being no.1 =)

It turns out ArenaNet has evidence to the contrary. You have merely wishful thinking and rather dubious logic.

[SugarCayne.3098]

Player skill only counted in Vanilla.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Ben K.6238 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:winning the week has no meaning now.

players quit now for whatever reason. players rest then come back

So to fix this, you're going to get them to quit permanently. K.

or the opposite. they will play more because it has meaning by tournaments. Glory of being no.1 =)

It turns out ArenaNet has evidence to the contrary. You have merely wishful thinking and rather dubious logic.

no =). i can understand how you guys may fear trying. but arena net is wrong.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@Israel.7056 said:So if player skill and team organization are the only things making things like scourge and spellbreakers strong why are they so common?Does it have anything to do with their respective toolsets when compared to the enormous number of alternatives and how well suited those toolsets are to accomplishing certain goals in-game?Do you recognize any difference in effectiveness or "power" between different builds and/or different classes or is everything basically identical in terms of effectiveness and power and class and build mostly an aesthetic choice?

Because people are foolishly lead to believe scourges are easy mode when it comes to playing, but there are 2 major problems with this:

1) "obstructed" "obstructed" "obstructed" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "immune" "obstructed" "obstructed" "obstructed" aka, their damage potential is severely limited in real play circumstances

2) They come across players like me that wipe them out in 7 seconds or less once targeted; regardless of how tightly stacked they are, how many barriers they gain, or how much healing is thrown their way. They are sitting ducks when it comes to range classes; they are essentially cannon fodder.

Spellbreakers are another beast in themselves, because it seems what ever you throw at them, regardless if it's a condition or physical damage gets blocked or is immune. Spellbreakers are a much bigger issue than scourges. The biggest issue with scourges at the moment is this "obstructed" B.S they come across, the 100% condition immunity up-time flying around, and their vulnerability to ranged classes. People that have trouble playing against scourges or find them even remotely OP, it's a L2P issue.

[Chaba.5410]

@Swamurabi.7890 said:Since I can't seem to access the old forums any more I'll just have to say that there was a red post about the hard truth of WvW tournaments that said there was a PERMANENT drop in player level after each tournament.

I knew I should have gotten a screen shot of it.

Someone, somewhere put up an archive of the entire old forum. You'd have to search around this forum to find who and where if you were really up for it.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

Re: tournies. I've heard multiple devs say in TS that the reason they haven't done any more tournaments is they saw a decline in population after the tournaments due to player burn-out. That's all. While I personally would love to see a tourny again, I'm not touching this game until they properly balance the classes, do something about power creep, and address the condition issues and would rather see that done first.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Spurnshadow.3678 said:Re: tournies. I've heard multiple devs say in TS that the reason they haven't done any more tournaments is they saw a decline in population after the tournaments due to player burn-out. That's all. While I personally would love to see a tourny again, I'm not touching this game until they properly balance the classes, do something about power creep, and address the condition issues and would rather see that done first.

wvw continuous to have no meaning until they touch this topic again including the bugs.

wvw should matter like before, assisting in bonuses of the home. etc.

in the end it will be one winner in each tier.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Skill does make the difference. Just like how someone skilled with a sword could beat someone with the BFG from Doom.The problem is how much more skilled someone has to be with a build that is within certain reasonable limits, against someone with a broken build that is way past any reasonable limits. And if you have such differences, then you won't have a sword vs a BFG. Because the skilled ones will also get the BFG. And then it's everyone with the same weapon, and the game becomes stale and boring.There's limits to everything.

If we really want more people in WvW, we need a way it make it very worthwhile do play at least a few hours every week. An extra pip you keep for getting to wood is NOT enough, and getting to Diamond takes way too long for average players. So for them it feels like they are wasting their time without progress. Maybe WvW should also have Seasons, and the rewards in these skirmish tracks be improved so they are something you get every 1-2 months, not something most fail to get every week.

And we also need ways to have people split and spread about all over the maps and through the whole week, so there's always people. Not zergs on reset playing musical chairs farming WXP and karma and avoiding each other, get the very minimum they can get, and then "see you next week".

[Retsuko.2035]

WvW tournaments has hurt more then it did any good in the past. First tournament was start of Sanctum of Rall downfall for example, for those who been around long enough know how much drama and toxic comes from tourny in WvW inside and outside server communities.

As for OP, surely, balance has been a problem right now and of course you can counter anything you're fighting. The real problem you're not solving with this thread however is that everyone is encouraged to play the pirateship meta. You're speaking of ways to counter? well, playing pirateship and spawning scourges and spellbreakers to oppose enemy is the counter you'd be speaking of here. Except you're too late to figure this out because everyone else already has.