Is there a specific reason why WvW hasn't had any map updates for awhile?

[stormemperor.3745]

Because kitten you thats why

[Zombiesbum.3502]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

I have almost 10k hours in 10 years, how much you got?

Played every class, played every role, scout, roamer, builder, defender, havoc, zerg, support, dps, boon stripper.

How about you learn to not get pulled off a wall before you cry about making safe spaces for you on a wall, learn where the actual safe spots are on a wall, you know, not directly above a zerg even on the back lip. How about you actually learn to use the tools to defend with instead of standing on the back lip of a wall lobbing mortar shots. Why don't you put on sneak gyro and go disable the catas or rams?

There are plenty of times where I held off an entire zerg because I got off a disabler, or got counter siege on them because they were too lazy to kill it in the first place.

 

You know you're not expected to hold everything for the entire week right? Yes every server has weak points in population, it's a week long game, it's not going to be perfect, there are times you will be outnumbered and lose stuff, and there will be times your own server will outnumber the other sides and take their stuff. The server balance will help with this a little as it spreads populations out more. Many have already noticed in the betas there's more players or commanders around them in their usual dead times.

 

Your job in outnumbered is to try and hold as much as you can under that pressure, and quickly recap what you can until you get more numbers. There's plenty of tools to slow down attackers or help rally, upgraded walls/gates, supply traps, disablers, well placed counter siege, tactivators/upgrades. These are all meant to delay attacks until your side can rally to defend and push them off, you are not meant to be a one man crew to mortar zergs away from objectives. If you cannot get the numbers to defend, you lose, move on to next objective and prepare. Almost everything has a counter in the game.

 

The game doesn't need fixing to adapt to you, it's you that needs to adapt to the game.

Brining up time played I see. It's not an argument, but if you want to go there; I played since day 1 release. I remember kripparrian getting perma banned through reddit for the karma to gold "exploit". Also, 10k hours for a nearly 11-year-old game is actually not many hours considering. But like I said, this isn't an argument, the fact you've brought it up is pitiful. It's also troubling to hear that you've played for 10k hours, but still think that the game (WvW in this case) "doesn't need fixing". 

You are also strawmanning my arguments, which is starting to kitten me off. I have never said that a side should be able to hold everything. But you are making it out as if that's my argument. That's so disingenuous of you.

Your argument of positioning makes no sense, it's like you haven't even been listening. Or you are assuming I'm in a really poor position, rather than AoE's being too massive. I also change position often when I am in those situations, I would assume that you'd assume I would do that (after all you've assumed a lot about my arguments), but you are so focused on winning the argument that you take everything I don't say as proof that I'm doing things incorrectly.

I think we are done arguing though, it's clear you're too in-love with the game to see its blatant flaws that even a newbie would see.

[Xenesis.6389]

1 minute ago, Zombiesbum.3502 said:

Brining up time played I see. It's not an argument, but if you want to go there; I played since day 1 release. I remember kripparrian getting perma banned through reddit for the karma to gold "exploit". Also, 10k hours for a nearly 11-year-old game is actually not many hours considering. But like I said, this isn't an argument, the fact you've brought it up is pitiful. It's also troubling to hear that you've played for 10k hours, but still think that the game (WvW in this case) "doesn't need fixing". 

You are also strawmanning my arguments, which is starting to kitten me off. I have never said that a side should be able to hold everything. But you are making it out as if that's my argument. That's so disingenuous of you.

Your argument of positioning makes no sense, it's like you haven't even been listening. Or you are assuming I'm in a really poor position, rather than AoE's being too massive. I also change position often when I am in those situations, I would assume that you'd assume I would do that (after all you've assumed a lot about my arguments), but you are so focused on winning the argument that you take everything I don't say as proof that I'm doing things incorrectly.

I think we are done arguing though, it's clear you're too in-love with the game to see its blatant flaws that even a newbie would see.

You accused me of not having enough play time to try and make some point. 🤷‍♂️

I never said the game doesn't need fixing, I said you need to adapt to the game not the game to you, to put it more bluntly you need to play better.  🤷‍♂️

I see the flaws of the game mode, a newbie would just complain to get their way, and not really have the experience to know any better. 🤷‍♂️

Bye.  💁‍♂️

 

 

[Zombiesbum.3502]

5 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

You accused me of not having enough play time to try and make some point. 🤷‍♂️

I never said the game doesn't need fixing, I said you need to adapt to the game not the game to you, to put it more bluntly you need to play better.  🤷‍♂️

I see the flaws of the game mode, a newbie would just complain to get their way, and not really have the experience to know any better. 🤷‍♂️

Bye.  💁‍♂️

 

You brought up play time mate, don't you dare act like I'm the one initiating that argument. If the game doesn't need "adapting", that is the same as "fixing". You are just arguing semantics here. Stop being disingenuous.

Bye.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Zombiesbum.3502

[Xenesis.6389]

8 hours ago, Zombiesbum.3502 said:

You need to spend less time on the forum and more time playing WvW if you really believe that standing on the wall in the current meta against an overwhelming force is going to achieve anything.

You were implying I'm some newb, I gave you numbers to correct yourself.

Oh and you're not suppose to achieve anything against an overwhelming force, let me state it again, since you still haven't figured it out, you're suppose to delay until you get numbers to properly counter, you're the one who thinks you're suppose to accomplish something by standing on the back wall afk firing your mortar. Plenty of players have figured out what you're suppose to do on a wall, if you can't, that's your problem and the game doesn't need to be "fixed" because every newbie can't figure out how to survive in wvw, git gud.

Bye. 💁‍♂️

Edited November 23, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[Zombiesbum.3502]

5 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

You were implying I'm some newb, I gave you numbers to correct yourself.

Oh and you're not suppose to achieve anything against an overwhelming force, let me state it again, since you still haven't figured it out, you're suppose to delay until you get numbers to properly counter, you're the one who thinks you're suppose to accomplish something by standing on the back wall afk firing your mortar. Plenty of players have figured out what you're suppose to do on a wall, if you can't, that's your problem and the game doesn't need to be "fixed" because every newbie can't figure out how to survive in wvw, git gud.

Bye. 💁‍♂️

If you didn't talk with ignorance, then maybe I wouldn't mistake you for one.

It seems like you don't understand or care about a players time if you think they are going to sit around and wait for others to come online so they get to play. Saying that a player should only be allowed to take vet outposts and camps because he's outnumbered is incredibly short sighted. 

If nobody is playing and they don't get to play WvW (not a glorified PvE encounter), then guess what? They stop playing, that's 1 less player that YOU get to play with. Your own arguments are so mind numbingly self-centred that it hurts me to see you literally want your own experience to be worse in order to attempt to win a stupid argument on the internet.

"Yes, let's not improve WvW. Let's have it continue to bleed players until there is nobody else but me and Stonemist Castle. Then I can have it all to myself." That's the impression your arguments leave on me.

charlatan.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Zombiesbum.3502

[Sahne.6950]

On 11/22/2022 at 4:55 AM, Longpoke.8290 said:

It just lacks the dev listening to our feedback. 

Community:   WE DONT LIKE ALL THIS BOONVOMIT! PLEASE ADD MORE BOONSTRIPS OR GENERAL COUNTERPLAY TO BOONS!

Anet: *repeatedly nerfs boonrip*

 

Community: THERE IS TOO MUCH HEALING AND TOO LITTLE DAMAGE! SOMETIMES YOU HAVE GvG´s WHERE BOTH GROUPS JUST SIT ON EACHOTHER AND IT TAKES MINUTES TILL SOMEONE DIES!

Anet: *Nerfs AoE-Damage and buffs healingscaling for supports*

Edited November 23, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Svarty.8019]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:07 PM, Justine.6351 said:

They don't know how to make a good wvw borderlands map anymore.  Likely the people that made Alpine bl don't work at anet anymore. So now only these huge lofty map designers exist and that doesn't make a good wvw map.

Mike Ferguson made this.. https://jumpbackstudios.com/about/

and Matt Witter went here.. https://www.certainaffinity.com/

 

[Justine.6351]

55 minutes ago, Svarty.8019 said:

Mike Ferguson made this.. https://jumpbackstudios.com/about/

and Matt Witter went here.. https://www.certainaffinity.com/

 

Do you know who did the basic alpine bl layout originally and also the ruins? Presumably a team effort but who was the "main" person for them?

[Axelteas.7192]

Greediness. Anet said that PvP and WvW doesnt give money.

[Xenesis.6389]

9 hours ago, Zombiesbum.3502 said:

If you didn't talk with ignorance, then maybe I wouldn't mistake you for one.

It seems like you don't understand or care about a players time if you think they are going to sit around and wait for others to come online so they get to play. Saying that a player should only be allowed to take vet outposts and camps because he's outnumbered is incredibly short sighted. 

If nobody is playing and they don't get to play WvW (not a glorified PvE encounter), then guess what? They stop playing, that's 1 less player that YOU get to play with. Your own arguments are so mind numbingly self-centred that it hurts me to see you literally want your own experience to be worse in order to attempt to win a stupid argument on the internet.

"Yes, let's not improve WvW. Let's have it continue to bleed players until there is nobody else but me and Stonemist Castle. Then I can have it all to myself." That's the impression your arguments leave on me.

charlatan.

Git Gud. 💁‍♂️

 

20 hours ago, Zombiesbum.3502 said:

I think we are done arguing though

As a veteran I'll show you how this is done as well.

Last post.

Bye.

[katniss.6735]

I have much to read here since my last post. Skipped over all the xyz is bad stuff to read the responses with people making actual suggestions. I want to make sure I understand them all before responding to each thing. My personal opinion is that EBG is the best map, and improving on things to do there would be a good starting ground. Making an entirely new map isn't really going to fly, I don't think.

 

Small change examples: owning Stonemist is great, but the waypoint is always contested by just doing a tiny amount of damage to a guard and then leaving. That could be changed. 

There are a lot of things that can be added to the skill unlocks from wxp gains. 

Add a veteran monster for that daily to EBG. 

 

There needs to be some kind of thing people can do besides just hold objectives when they're outmanned. Taking a sentry or flipping a camp is not going to make anyone feel like sticking around. lol Need ideas here. The spawns, except for Red side, have clear tells on where people are going to go when opposing teams own their keep. The siegebreaker npc should be unkillable for 5 mins as if it was a buffed tower lord that just got captured. I don't recall if the siegebreaker gives people supply or not. 

 

[Xenesis.6389]

7 hours ago, katniss.6735 said:

Small change examples: owning Stonemist is great, but the waypoint is always contested by just doing a tiny amount of damage to a guard and then leaving. That could be changed. 

There are a lot of things that can be added to the skill unlocks from wxp gains. 

Add a veteran monster for that daily to EBG. 

SMC is fine, even if you take out the aggro from guards it's usually under sieged from somewhere. There's a lot of players who don't like a t3 smc anyways, usually it requires a fully organized map blob to break, or rely on the other enemy to distract or put direct pressure on it as well (which I actually think is great since it forces players to actually think about what they're doing to help break it and not be another mindless zerg going after a camp instead).

A change that has been suggested a few times has been to remove the supply in smc altogether, if you want to build or repair it then bring supply from your territories instead, which I think is a good idea.

Not sure why mobs like the grub and spirit are not considered vet mobs, although there isn't one for green side so would need a new vet mob there too, but yeah why has this been overlooked for all these years is mind boggling.

[TheGrimm.5624]

7 hours ago, katniss.6735 said:

I have much to read here since my last post. Skipped over all the xyz is bad stuff to read the responses with people making actual suggestions. I want to make sure I understand them all before responding to each thing. My personal opinion is that EBG is the best map, and improving on things to do there would be a good starting ground. Making an entirely new map isn't really going to fly, I don't think.

 

Small change examples: owning Stonemist is great, but the waypoint is always contested by just doing a tiny amount of damage to a guard and then leaving. That could be changed. 

There are a lot of things that can be added to the skill unlocks from wxp gains. 

Add a veteran monster for that daily to EBG. 

 

There needs to be some kind of thing people can do besides just hold objectives when they're outmanned. Taking a sentry or flipping a camp is not going to make anyone feel like sticking around. lol Need ideas here. The spawns, except for Red side, have clear tells on where people are going to go when opposing teams own their keep. The siegebreaker npc should be unkillable for 5 mins as if it was a buffed tower lord that just got captured. I don't recall if the siegebreaker gives people supply or not. 

 

 

I wanted to start here because if EBG is the most often played, it might be better to not adjust it first since it already draws the numbers and could be your baseline for population counts on changes to others. Mileage will vary from region to region and server to server as far as server caps after EBG is capped.

Could have easily counter replied to a lot of replies here but didn't want to derail things further even if I disagree on a number of points since I am one of those you will see quite often that will see say we need new maps. Still might but wanted to drop a why before I went there. Take for example the neutral tone you have above about EBG is best map. I would say EBG is the most played map. You will have ABLers that will say ABL is best and DBLers will say DBL is best, ex-EotMer that will say it's the best and home borderlanders that will say it is be that ABL or DBL. So go with numbers and EBG is most populated I think most would say especially after EoTM was gutted, before it was then it might have a run for the numbers game.

So from there it might be best to ask why does EBG draw more? After that you might ask what draws different people to different maps? An adjusted map or new map should build toward the why do versus why not do questions if it wants to draw more people. The other gorilla in the corner that needs discussed would be original concepts versus new ones. Has the idea that EBG scores the most over home borderlands still make sense? Should there even be maps that are still considered home versus EBG styles since that has been an internal war on servers since day 1. 'Help home! Sorry we score more in EB, you will have to deal with it.'. After that you get the people that are looking for new versus that those are comfortable with the known. Hence it makes it complicated topic. 

Need to read thru more of this as well before going further.

[Xenesis.6389]

14 minutes ago, TheGrimm.5624 said:

 

I wanted to start here because if EBG is the most often played, it might be better to not adjust it first since it already draws the numbers and could be your baseline for population counts on changes to others. Mileage will vary from region to region and server to server as far as server caps after EBG is capped.

Could have easily counter replied to a lot of replies here but didn't want to derail things further even if I disagree on a number of points since I am one of those you will see quite often that will see say we need new maps. Still might but wanted to drop a why before I went there.

Take for example the neutral tone you have above about EBG is best map. I would say EBG is the most played map. You will have ABLers that will say ABL is best and DBLers will say DBL is best, ex-EotMer that will say it's the best and home borderlanders that will say it is be that ABL or DBL. So go with numbers and EBG is most populated I think most would say especially after EoTM was gutted, before it was then it might have a run for the numbers game.

So from there it might be best to ask why does EBG draw more? After that you might ask what draws different people to different maps? An adjusted map or new map should build toward the why do versus why not do questions if it wants to draw more people.

The other gorilla in the corner that needs discussed would be original concepts versus new ones. Has the idea that EBG scores the most over home borderlands still make sense? Should there even be maps that are still considered home versus EBG styles since that has been an internal war on servers since day 1. 'Help home! Sorry we score more in EB, you will have to deal with it.'. After that you get the people that are looking for new versus that those are comfortable with the known. Hence it makes it complicated topic. 

Need to read thru more of this as well before going further.

EBG is the least hated map, it usually provides action due to the distance between objectives, and 13 vs 22 objectives.

Alpines behind that, easier to navigate, provides a lot of good areas to fight.

Desert is the most hated, longest travel times, double sized half useless objectives, and personally I hate irl deserts. 

Eotm was only revered for it's faster rewards, as soon as skirmish rewards came out, which could only be earned in wvw, everyone abandoned it. You could still play it to level up, you can still earn tomes from reward tracks in there, but everyone wants the tickets for their time.

 

Going forward they need to either

1. Convert desert/alpine into ebg type maps and run single copies, it doesn't need to have 22 objectives, it just needs to be even for all sides on the map.

2. Or make another ebg type map, or bring a copy of eotm into the main maps (keep the eotm system for overflow), so 5 maps in rotation. Then lower the map caps for the home borderlands, so it's more of a small zerg/havoc/roamer map than 50 squad map blobs, leave that to ebg and eotm.

3. The home concept of maps was a bad idea, and highly restrictive to the growth of wvw through adding new maps or adding or removing maps from rotation.

4. All this discussion on maps is a moot point, since they won't consider building another wvw map, they won't consider making any major changes to current maps. What we have is what we're going to get.

[katniss.6735]

I did have fun in EotM when it was populated. It has some unique properties. There's some nodes you never wanted to fight at because the other team was full of fear spamming necros or something. lol The auto-firing cannons that knock you down are kinda annoying. Not having active waypoints to get from respawn back to the other 2 sides of the map is super discouraging. The destructible bridges are a great idea. You could add elements like that in APB. Such as destroy the bridge going from left side of Gary or have it be able to be turned on and off on a timer. When they added the ruins to middle of the map to claim the buff, people were using them to hit keeps and towers, but now people don't bother with that anymore. There needs to be more draw away from the keeps in APBs.

 

An elite for the green side of EBG could go in that area where the kraits spawn to control frogs. Technically you could buff those elites even more and have them as wandering mobs that defend the respective keeps. They are very easy to kill in their current state.

 

You could change that auto-turrets tactic for gates to hit multiple targets in front of it. 

 

Maybe add random timed events around the map, especially during seasonal events like Wintersday and Hallows End (for example). Turn the dolyaks into a giant pumpkin carriage. Have presents drop in random locations you have to go smack to get the small presents out of (like they have in pve). Obviously preventing other players from getting to the presents will be the risk.

 

Being able to hit 3 walls in EBG blue keep, or inner and outer keep at the same time should be changed. No one wants to play as blue. 

You shouldn't be able to build trebs in spawn that enemy players can't normally reach without legendary guards 1 shotting them or teleporting them out of the area.

Edited November 30, 2022 by katniss.6735
typos

[Phizeke.9536]

Rotating New Maps like Apex Legends would be refreshing.