Shadow Arts Re-Rework

[Seventh Ranger.3968]

(Not a thief main btw, just hate how they massacred shadow arts)

 

While the recent shadow arts rework did give Spectres some nice improvements to the support they can offer through stealthing allies, it pretty much removed stealth from Thief's kit entirely, outside of Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder, especially in pvp. I know that was the goal, because Anet doesn't want thieves to have access to stealth anymore, since people found it annoying, but the response to that should have been to add more sources of/more access to the reveal mechanic, not remove access to stealth from the literal stealth class of the game. So many thief builds that relied on/used stealth before no longer work at all, unless they want to lose their utility skills to run Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder, and those skills have long cooldowns compared to how accessible stealth used to be. As someone who has played both as and against thieves, I would much rather just be given reveal on more of my skills and traits, than be reduced to having less access to stealth than rangers and mesmers, when playing on the literal stealth class of the game. As someone who plays other classes more than thief in pvp, I never really found their stealth egregiously annoying. At least no more than annoying mechanics that other classes have, like ranger's perma-root builds, warrior stunlock builds, mesmer clone spam, or various other annoying things in pvp. And to be clear, I don't find those things annoying enough to want to take them away from the people who enjoy them (Except maybe the ranger root build. I'm a ranger main, and I still think that needs nerfed). So was thief having stealth really that annoying that thief and only thief had to lose most of their access to it? I desperately want to see Anet partially revert the Shadow Arts nerfs, so that thieves can get back access to things like stealth on Steal, and longer stealth durations (although I think that should be changed to a major trait rather than a minor). Does anyone else hate the borderline removal of stealth from our game's dedicated stealth/assassin class?

[ASP.8093]

You still have Shadow Arts from combo fields and weapon skills. (The Shadow Arts duration extension never affected smoke field stealth, by the way.) The biggest consequence of the Shadow Arts change is that you can no longer get ~7 sec stealth from your heal skill and you can't insta-stealth by tapping your Steal, which makes Shadow Arts D/P Daredevil quite a bit weaker. That matters a lot but the thing pushing Daredevil out of the meta was that Specter had similar high mobility with more teamfight presence, and Deadeye (formerly a really really dead spec in SPvP) can make exceptionally good use of the new Shadow Arts triggers using Silent Scope.

Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder are stronger in (Deadly Arts) Improvisation builds imo. But for a long time (like six months before the big rework), the main reason to play Shadow Arts Daredevil over Deadly Arts Daredevil was that all the Deception skills had inflated base cooldowns so you were forced to take Shadow Arts to reduce them back down to normal.

[Seventh Ranger.3968]

Actually funnily enough, the build that was ruined the most by the Shadow Arts nerfs was a Deadeye build. I just hate that Anet is pretty much turning thief stealth into just a trigger for other effects/boons, rather than letting it act as... actual stealth. I just wanna be able to feel like an actual assassin again when playing thief, without having to sacrifice all my offensive skills. I'd be perfectly happy to have a higher risk of being revealed by people, if Anet added more reveal to other skills and traits, I just want to find a way where stealth can still be a meaningful part of thief's kit again. Going with the method of balancing stealth through adding more reveal would also allow other classes that could or should have more potential for stealth, like mesmer and ranger, to explore more stealth options, without it becoming overbearing, and could even allow Anet to add more stealth capable or even stealth focused elite specs to other classes in the future. I think it would be really cool and interesting to see a game state where stealth has more counterplay, instead of being continually limited further and further because Anet is afraid of it, due to it being hard to balance currently. I'd even be ok with more methods of countering it beyond just reveal, if it meant we could have more stealth in the game in general. Stealth is cool and fun, and it's sad to see how little of it is allowed in the game, especially for the class that is supposed to be GW2's equivalent of a Rogue, which is THE mmo stealth class.

[UNOwen.7132]

The Shadow Arts rework was a massive buff across the board for everything but exactly permastealth builds. And those were lame, even to play. Theres no need to change anything about Shadow arts. 

[nuggetjr.6571]

At least in pvp, I like it where it is .. there are good choices to make in all 3 traits and stealth isn't as long as it was.

[Venport.3925]

6 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

The Shadow Arts rework was a massive buff across the board for everything but exactly permastealth builds. And those were lame, even to play. Theres no need to change anything about Shadow arts. 

The only thing I'd maybe want for SA is slightly stronger support options, but that could be done in other traitlines (cough cough acro) and specific specs too

but yeah I agree with other posters, permastealth is dog and the new SA fits the high action gameplay of thief in general a lot better

Edited November 30, 2022 by Venport.3925
more words

[Lord Warfin.1209]

I'm confused about something.  Before this patch, using the stolen skill on DeadEye gave 3 seconds of stealth.  I used that all the time for Death's Judgment or Malicious Ambush.  It still says stealth for 3 seconds in the tool tip, but it no longer gives stealth.  I don't see anything about that in the patch notes.  Is this a bug or am I missing something?

[flyingplanet.6912]

6 hours ago, Venport.3925 said:

but yeah I agree with other posters, permastealth is dog and the new SA fits the high action gameplay of thief in general a lot better

New version of SA is more toxic because now DE has mobility and damage with slight sacrifice of stealth. 

Before the patch, permastealth was sort of a meme build and DE was only able to do mosquito bites and ran away when they are out of initiative. I always enjoyed laughing at them when they do that. 

Now? they spam 2, then dodge few times then they are back to full ini. they then spam 4 to run away. No way of catching them. 

Not to mention how much damage they do now in group fights.

 

12 hours ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

The Shadow Arts rework was a massive buff across the board for everything but exactly permastealth builds. And those were lame, even to play. Theres no need to change anything about Shadow arts.

 

I disagree. Current version of DE is even more lame. If anet wants better balance, I think de should be nerfed to giving only 1 ini and eliminate condition removal when they stealth so that other profession has chance of catching them. But honestly, it would be better if anet just change back how shadow art was even if they halve the stealth gain and patch acrobatics instead. 

Losing stealth on steal was a huge strike to all other thief professions. 

 

EDIT: minor spelling error

Edited December 1, 2022 by flyingplanet.6912

[Jumpel.3972]

5 hours ago, Lord Warfin.1209 said:

 It still says stealth for 3 seconds in the tool tip, but it no longer gives stealth.  I don't see anything about that in the patch notes.  Is this a bug or am I missing something?

It work fine for me. You know that you need at least 5 malice to get the stealth ?

[Lord Warfin.1209]

14 hours ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

It work fine for me. You know that you need at least 5 malice to get the stealth ?

That was it.  Somehow I didn't know that and I've been playing DE for a while.  The Wiki does say there is a threshold but don't always look at that and I always wait till the malice bar is full so it's never been an issue.  When I was experimenting with dagger skills I just wanted to see how they worked so I wasn't racking up malice to go for damage.  It works when I do.

[SehferViega.8725]

Shadow Arts at the moment is fine and no need to be modified.