New Player Experience (sPvP)

[Mell.4873]

Most of the problems we are seeing in PvP are because of a lack of new players. 

There are no tutorials or guides to detail how to play a particular class/elite in PvP and when the response from your team mates is to complain I think that turns alot of people off. 

 

I propose a Vendor or an NPC in the mists that offer a tutorial for a build. A simple video detailing how to play the particular build then a template you can use/modify.

Edited December 22, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Stallic.2397]

A guide on rotations. A guide on preferred roles. And a guide on counters. 

 

All of these can take months or years to learn if you just learn by playing ranked. But time is of the essence

 

More importantly, if there's standard education regarding methods of playing, then soloq members will have higher efficiency playing together as a team because they are all taught similar methods

 

Once the basics are learned, then additional techniques of flare can be added by player discretion

[Rohaus.2317]

I have been PvPing a ton within sPvP for over a month now. This past weekend and the past couple of days have been the absolute worst!!! I figured it had something to do with the ending of the season and a new season starting... 

 

One thing I can't understand is the full on premades running against full on PUG's... this makes zero sense to me. I am a casual but I love to PvP... but not against a stacked team of which I have no chance beating when playing with a PUG...

 

I still love PvP but it is very obvious when you play against premades... running builds that complement each other with a dedicated healer... bleh...

[Saiyan.1704]

1 hour ago, Rohaus.2317 said:

I have been PvPing a ton within sPvP for over a month now. This past weekend and the past couple of days have been the absolute worst!!! I figured it had something to do with the ending of the season and a new season starting... 

 

One thing I can't understand is the full on premades running against full on PUG's... this makes zero sense to me. I am a casual but I love to PvP... but not against a stacked team of which I have no chance beating when playing with a PUG...

 

I still love PvP but it is very obvious when you play against premades... running builds that complement each other with a dedicated healer... bleh...

Rank match quality is a whole lot better than unranked matches. There's almost no reason to run meta builds in unranked, that said, it's still a shame that premades with some-what meta builds are in ranked. MMR should be doing better in that regards because it's no fun for soloQ unranked players who just want to chill.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Saiyan.1704

[Khalisto.5780]

it's easier to place those tips in loadscreens, even in general mist chat let's say everytime you enter it and every 10 mins

 

problem with that is, i think anet would never recommend an external website for that nor make these tutorials in their forums or youtube channel (i dont know if they have one)

 

i think the problem is far deeper than not having tutorials, i challenge you to make a new account and step in pvp and gather data of how many matches you have an afk in your match (it doesn't have to be in your team)

 

Then we have a second problem that makes the first one worse, ppl trying to reach level 20 for ranked facing experienced players, i have 10k matches and like yesterday before season began i was facing sub 2k AP players

 

Biggest problem in pvp is toxic players not getting any punishment, i remember playing 4 matches in a row with the same dude that would afk after dying once and go "trash team" in map chat

 

 

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

A guide on rotations. A guide on preferred roles. And a guide on counters. 

 

All of these can take months or years to learn if you just learn by playing ranked. But time is of the essence

 

More importantly, if there's standard education regarding methods of playing, then soloq members will have higher efficiency playing together as a team because they are all taught similar methods

 

Once the basics are learned, then additional techniques of flare can be added by player discretion

All you would need is how do you play X in PvP. It doesn't need to be complex.

Let's say Druid is explained in a video as a support role with the express purpose of staying alive and locking people down with roots. 

While something like Spellbreaker is a side noder with the express purpose of interrupting your opponent so they can't activate there abilities or have any boons. 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Rogue.8235]

6 hours ago, Stallic.2397 said:

A guide on rotations. A guide on preferred roles. And a guide on counters. 

 

All of these can take months or years to learn if you just learn by playing ranked. But time is of the essence

 

More importantly, if there's standard education regarding methods of playing, then soloq members will have higher efficiency playing together as a team because they are all taught similar methods

 

Once the basics are learned, then additional techniques of flare can be added by player discretion

 

Just wanted to chime in and say a well-built tutorial will kind of standardize PvP, which is good.  One thing that confuses new players is the moment-to-moment decision making.  This is exacerbated by not knowing what they're supposed to be doing and what their teammates are supposed to be doing, i.e., they don't know how to help their team.  

A "soft" standard would alleviate that problem (my opinion).  If new players have a better idea of what their role is, and how that role works with their teammates, whose roles they are also familiar with, the biggest learning curve is softened.  This would also (probably) alleviate the massive variance in effective PuG compositions, e.g., less getting stomped simply because your team composition is horrid.

 

The major issue is what, specifically, should be taught to new players, let alone actually spending the time and effort to build and implement such a tutorial system.  Honestly, I think it's worth it to do so.  The initial learning curve of GW2 PvP is too steep, and I'm not referring to general mechanics.  It's the decision making and knowing what to do in a conquest map that players seem to struggle with the most.  Having a standard set of basic knowledge and skills would really help with the PvP population.

 

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

 

Just wanted to chime in and say a well-built tutorial will kind of standardize PvP, which is good.  One thing that confuses new players is the moment-to-moment decision making.  This is exacerbated by not knowing what they're supposed to be doing and what their teammates are supposed to be doing, i.e., they don't know how to help their team.  

A "soft" standard would alleviate that problem (my opinion).  If new players have a better idea of what their role is, and how that role works with their teammates, whose roles they are also familiar with, the biggest learning curve is softened.  This would also (probably) alleviate the massive variance in effective PuG compositions, e.g., less getting stomped simply because your team composition is horrid.

 

The major issue is what, specifically, should be taught to new players, let alone actually spending the time and effort to build and implement such a tutorial system.  Honestly, I think it's worth it to do so.  The initial learning curve of GW2 PvP is too steep, and I'm not referring to general mechanics.  It's the decision making and knowing what to do in a conquest map that players seem to struggle with the most.  Having a standard set of basic knowledge and skills would really help with the PvP population.

 

I would avoid the mention of roles in any tutorial outside of how a professional plays. For example, Untamed being a Brawler/Bruiser specialisation. 

The main thing a tutorial should show is what your offensive/defensive skills and traits are. Imagine a hover feature showing how the skill works in PvP.  For example, Dolyak Stance being shown to counter Hammer Warrior stuns. 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Sahne.6950]

12 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Most of the problems we are seeing in PvP are because of a lack of new players. 

There are no tutorials or guides to detail how play a particular class/elite in PvP and when the response from your team mates is to complain I think that turns alot of people off. 

 

I propose a Vendor or an NPC in the mists that offer a tutorial for a build. A simple video detailing how to play the particular build then a template you can use/modify.

What i have noticed is, that the players playing this game for a long time, dont even understand what the barriers of entry are for new players.

We are actively recruiting new players in the starting area, and we are approacing people in HotM.

 

The biggest problem, or basicly the mistake i see the most is, that new players dont know how the pvp gearing works.  They grind to max level, they get their gear..... they setup a build.....    But what they dont notice is, that they are playing with some default amulet.

Sentences like: but i even bought marauder gear for alot of money... why dont i do any damage in pvp!?   are very common sadly...

If a tutorial would pop up , that would show the people where they can set amulets... that would already help immensly. 

 

And we finally need bots in pvp. I dont mean the moneyfarmerbots....   i mean a 5v5 coop mode, where you can learn the basics of Conquest against bots. Basicly any form of Playground where new players can learn, without going against some top 200 Leaderboard guy.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Luthan.5236]

Most important I think: To have a good understanding of the class from the PvE. Then after that you can start PvP. Just starting the game and trying to copy a premade-build ... won't help a lot I think.

Other than that: There is the mists lobby with the differnt island and explanations. That could be improved a bit maybe. Or a tutorial match with 5 vs. 5 with 9 NPCs where you play and a voice tells/explains you how the game mode works.

As for the past weeks/months that someone mentioned: Previous weeks we had the "fun" season (not real PvP) - with the mini season. Currently there the new season that startet ... which came with a soft reset (they really should remove them - easy and quick way to improve PvP a lot!)

This means: Another 1-2 weeks (until everyone has done their placements) ... with no real PvP. For me though I got lucky. The matchmaker - so far - evenly distributed the 500 vs. 100 matches. (1 win 2 losses, 1 win - for example 50/50 with the win/loss.) Pretty unbalanced though until the elite platin players are back at platin again - after the soft reset. The huge differences in real rating (the players are not at their real rating yet shorly after the soft reset) ... means that there are boring matches. I tend to surrender (just not fun and better to wait and let the enemy win fast if they are stronger a lot) super quick in the first 1-2 weeks until it gets more stable.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Mell.4873]

12 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Most important I think: To have a good understanding of the class from the PvE. Then after that you can start PvP. Just starting the game and trying to copy a premade-build ... won't help a lot I think.

Other than that: There is the mists lobby with the differnt island and explanations. That could be improved a bit maybe. Or a tutorial match with 5 vs. 5 with 9 NPCs where you play and a voice tells/explains you how the game mode works.

As for the past weeks/months that someone mentioned: Previous weeks we had the "fun" season (not real PvP) - with the mini season. Currently there the new season that startet ... which came with a soft reset (they really should remove them - easy and quick way to improve PvP a lot!)

This means: Another 1-2 weeks (until everyone has done their placements) ... with no real PvP. For me though I got lucky. The matchmaker - so far - evenly distributed the 500 vs. 100 matches. (1 win 2 losses, 1 win - for example 50/50 with the win/loss.) Pretty unbalanced though until the elite platin players are back at platin again - after the soft reset. The huge differences in real rating (the players are not at their real rating yet shorly after the soft reset) ... means that there are boring matches. I tend to surrender (just not fun and better to wait and let the enemy win fast if they are stronger a lot) super quick in the first 1-2 weeks until it gets more stable.

It is tricky at the start of season since it goes off some hidden value which can make Match making very one sided during your placement matches. I do think this made worse by the fact that we have the more Seasoned player participating in PvP rather than new players.

The best solution is to offer people some sort of basic tutorial for how to engage with PvP.