Is there any point use anything else than celestial?

[Junkpile.7439]

Tested celestial yesterday and notice that it doesn't even do that much less power damage than marauder/dragon/berserker mix. I see like only 2k higher dragons tooth crits and i don't have any survivability.  Basically i am dead every time i touch red while celestial on i can surf inside enemy blob. Celestial feels just so broken. Would be better if ele couldn't use it.

[Infusion.7149]

Your suggestion is absurd. If they are going to change celestial they would change it for all not just one class.

In addition what you are saying only applies to a single game mode.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Its only like that on Ele, Guard and Thief.

 

On other classes its still useful but loses alot of value compared to other gearsets because they already have twice the effective health once you take armor into account. It has alot more to do with the health desparity of classes than the gear itself being strong, which is why Marauder does almost as well.

 

"Would be better if Ele couldn't use it", its rediculous, you're literally saying we should just die instead.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

To kill things faster.  I used to recommend marauder gear, but since EoD introduced Jade Bots and overcharge buffs I haven't needed to swap gear away from berserker or viper.  Well, occasionally I'll check out griever again if I'm feeling frisky.  Also, there's still toughness-aggroing enemies in the game, and celestial has a habit of drawing fire from them.

In WvW I use celestial all day there.  But in PVE, I generally see little reason to swap away from my pure damage sets.  

[Hindenburg.3415]

1 hour ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Its only like that on Ele, Guard and Thief.

 

Same for reaper

I think for any spec with self boons it will be a close call.

[Junkpile.7439]

4 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

"Would be better if Ele couldn't use it", its rediculous, you're literally saying we should just die instead.

Well they could fix class after that so eles don't need to abuse hybrid builds.

[Sahne.6950]

Ele literally invented the Cele meta back in the day.

 

Pepperidge farm remembers.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Infusion.7149]

9 hours ago, Hindenburg.3415 said:

 

Same for reaper

I think for any spec with self boons it will be a close call.

I think you mean harbinger? I remember complaint threads at EoD launch about "cele harbinger is OP". Cele scourge used to be run as well before the power coefficients were reduced.

Let's also not forget the off-meta spellbreaker support is cele. https://gw2mists.com/builds/warrior/boon-spellbreaker

The topic poster is clearly biased against eles.

Edited December 15, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Mara.6782]

Celestial is useful if you can keep up 25 might and can utilize all the stats celestials give. Elementalist is one of the best using celestial.   

[Nezekan.2671]

Cele will always be good on ELe, even core due to how the class is made.

You can also try trailblazer, it's a famous build to basically solo everything in the openworld. Earth + Fire focus + defensives from other elements.

Celestial Catalyst is a match made in heaven 

[Junkpile.7439]

7 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

I think you mean harbinger? I remember complaint threads at EoD launch about "cele harbinger is OP". Cele scourge used to be run as well before the power coefficients were reduced.

Let's also not forget the off-meta spellbreaker support is cele. https://gw2mists.com/builds/warrior/boon-spellbreaker

The topic poster is clearly biased against eles.

I am like few real elementalist who still play the game.  Thing is that you can play necro without celestial gear.  My core life blast build works well. Core power ele is frigging useless and anet can't do anything because celestial build would be totally out of control after buffs.

[Infusion.7149]

Just now, Junkpile.7439 said:

I am like few real elementalist who still play the game.  Thing is that you can play necro without celestial gear.  My core life blast build works well. Core power ele is frigging useless and anet can't do anything because celestial build would be totally out of control after buffs.

Doesn't seem like it. I've never seen any equipment nerf suggestion state "would be better if ele couldn't use it"

Worst idea ever. How would they even code this? You tell me.

[Junkpile.7439]

3 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Doesn't seem like it. I've never seen any equipment nerf suggestion state "would be better if ele couldn't use it"

Worst idea ever. How would they even code this? You tell me.

I don't know. Classes can't use all weapons either so probably they could just "block" celestial gear if player is elementalist.

[Infusion.7149]

37 minutes ago, Junkpile.7439 said:

I don't know. Classes can't use all weapons either so probably they could just "block" celestial gear if player is elementalist.

Exactly you didn't think about how to implement this.

If someone has legendary or more importantly ascended gear with that stat you are essentially saying they can't wear armor, trinkets, rings, accessories, or backpiece? You only tunnel vision on weapons. This is outrageous.

In addition, it means they would be adding in extra code for no real reason when actual issues can be fixed. The condition output on elementalist in competitive modes is far from a huge threat , rendering it only a tankier ~50% less damage version of power stats. If cele is "broken" then they would need to fix cele for all classes not just "stop it from being used on one class". I was against the addition of expertise and concentration from the start since no reduction of stats was introduced.

edit: and the LVL 80 boost exotic armor is celestial so you would also be hurting every new player that is new to the game

Edited December 15, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Tbh the only areas where cele shines for ele are (small scale)roaming and open world. Its prohibited from PvP, WvW staff Weaver usually runs marau, aurashare WvW temp runs minstrel, PvE Pdps runs berserker, PvE Cdps runs Viper, PvE alac dps runs vip/rit, PvE quick dps runs bers/div, PvE healalac runs harrier/magi.

 

Even for open world its in general better to run bers/div for most content unless you want to solo some legendary mobs for some weird reason. 

 

So that leaves us with WvW (small scale) roaming. Sure cele definitely shines over here compared to other stat combo's, but without cele stats you're basically a free kill for any roaming oriented class. So just be glad that you can actually abuse the cele stats and have a fair fight. 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Just delete elementalist, it'll be less harmful for most of GW2 players than Celestial.

[DaKillaOfHell.5907]

18 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Tbh the only areas where cele shines for ele are (small scale)roaming and open world. Its prohibited from PvP, WvW staff Weaver usually runs marau, aurashare WvW temp runs minstrel, PvE Pdps runs berserker, PvE Cdps runs Viper, PvE alac dps runs vip/rit, PvE quick dps runs bers/div, PvE healalac runs harrier/magi.

 

I'd say it is a bit harder to answer.

 

First of all, Celestial to any other set is basically a bit more than 2:1 to main stat for the other set, while for other stats, the difference is way lower.

 

For example:

Berserker Armguard, Ascended:

47 Power

34 Precision

34 ferocity

 

Celestial:

22 all stats

 

So, the difference isn't that much, compared on one part of the set, however, overall, the differense is, of course, bigger:

Total set:

 

If you have a staff as weapon (or just any other 2h weapon):

Berserker:

2502 Power

1960 Precision /51%

960 ferocity

 

Celestial:

1759 power

1639 precision /35%

639 ferocity

639 condition damage

639 expertise

 

Of course, no runes/sigils included.

 

However, as it is seen here, the difference isn't twice as much power, but around 750 power more for berserker gear than celestial.

With viper, it is twice as much conidition damage, 2292 power, and 633 expertise, which is even lower than celestial, same goes for precision.

 

For builds, all I can tell is that the difference is there indeed, but it is nowhere of being completely off the charts, and with good rotation still better than your average wanna-be weaver or catalyst dps.

Second point to mention would be  what kind of runes you use.

And thirdly, the bonus from celestial also applies to conditions of course, which is one point you can't have as a pure zerker.

A lot is also depending on weapon choice, skills, and of course traits, but the biggest advantage of celestial is, that you can also use defensive traits which aren't useless, while also not loosing too much offensive capability and being much more free in your playstyle than the other ones I mentioned before.

 

It is a viable choice, but also heavily dependent on your overall group, if you play raids/fractals, and in open world, it is just the strongest build there is (at least to me)

[the krytan assassin.9235]

1 hour ago, DaKillaOfHell.5907 said:

 

I'd say it is a bit harder to answer.

 

First of all, Celestial to any other set is basically a bit more than 2:1 to main stat for the other set, while for other stats, the difference is way lower.

 

For example:

Berserker Armguard, Ascended:

47 Power

34 Precision

34 ferocity

 

Celestial:

22 all stats

 

So, the difference isn't that much, compared on one part of the set, however, overall, the differense is, of course, bigger:

Total set:

 

If you have a staff as weapon (or just any other 2h weapon):

Berserker:

2502 Power

1960 Precision /51%

960 ferocity

 

Celestial:

1759 power

1639 precision /35%

639 ferocity

639 condition damage

639 expertise

 

Of course, no runes/sigils included.

 

However, as it is seen here, the difference isn't twice as much power, but around 750 power more for berserker gear than celestial.

With viper, it is twice as much conidition damage, 2292 power, and 633 expertise, which is even lower than celestial, same goes for precision.

 

For builds, all I can tell is that the difference is there indeed, but it is nowhere of being completely off the charts, and with good rotation still better than your average wanna-be weaver or catalyst dps.

Second point to mention would be  what kind of runes you use.

And thirdly, the bonus from celestial also applies to conditions of course, which is one point you can't have as a pure zerker.

A lot is also depending on weapon choice, skills, and of course traits, but the biggest advantage of celestial is, that you can also use defensive traits which aren't useless, while also not loosing too much offensive capability and being much more free in your playstyle than the other ones I mentioned before.

 

It is a viable choice, but also heavily dependent on your overall group, if you play raids/fractals, and in open world, it is just the strongest build there is (at least to me)

Id say cele dps output is around ~80% of Viper/bers tops in instanced pve. The sad truth is that condi+power simply don't combine well together in instanced PvE. You simply need both fire and earth traitline for decent condi dps and you need air/water/arcane for decent power dps. 

Both catalyst and Weaver force the player to switch attunements all the time so stockpiling on increased burn duration with f.e. baelfire runes doesn't work either. Even grieving armor isn't able to out dps vipers/bers. 

 

So the extra supportive stats that cele provides are healing power, concentration, vitality and toughness. 

Boonduration and healing power are pretty much useless, since the dps ele is not providing any meaningful heals/Boons. 

So that leaves us with some extra vit& toughness. Toughness isn't really that relevant since most bosses have relatively low stable dps output with a couple of high burst dps frames. 

So that leaves the extra vitality as the biggest advantage of running cele in instanced PvE. Marauder& ritualist gear are both able to provide vitality aswell, but at a much lower loss of dps. 

Cele used to be very good on the sc/w HAT due to the combo of decent amount of condi & power dps, short casting times and a lack of dps traitline, but unfortunately dagger has alot less condi dps output while playing HAT. 

Edited December 16, 2022 by the krytan assassin.9235

[TheQuickFox.3826]

I like Celestial for general gameplay, but if you want to get invited to raid (and similar challenging instanced PvE content) groups you will need to bring a specialized build for your role. If everyone would use Celestial here you would probably still be fine, maybe even better but you don't get invited to groups running it.

 

 

[Axelteas.7192]

The abuser LordHizen is now using cele in all of his builds... so Op is right.

[Nephalem.8921]

4 hours ago, TheQuickFox.3826 said:

I like Celestial for general gameplay, but if you want to get invited to raid (and similar challenging instanced PvE content) groups you will need to bring a specialized build for your role. If everyone would use Celestial here you would probably still be fine, maybe even better but you don't get invited to groups running it.

 

 

You would not be better. Every dps spec loses tons from running cele. You would still be fine most of the time because only ht cm and ankka title have dps requirements.

But you would make it harder for everyone for no reason. Dragging out fights increases the number of mechanics and points of failure.

They take 60-70% longer per boss. Lacking a 10th player is not the reason for that. Their top dps on mo did 22k. Good dps can do ~40k or close to it there.

Cele is good for some hybrid supports. bad for healers and bad for dps.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I played weaver marauder/celestial in WvW, and the more I added Celestial pieces obviously the better was my survivability but also my DPS : some conditions to scrape some DPS, longer fury/might, longer weakness (Superior elements) longer vulnerability (piercing shards) etc.

 

I haven't played enough Tempest / Catalyst since a while; but overall the issue I see with elementalist compared to other spec is the uptime of boons and the detachment of those traits with other dps traits.
If you take a trait for self boons; already you rarely can't loop them without BD or an other trait, but especially you can't take the "DPS" trait.
And look at Pyromancer's Puissance; big kitten since july 2020*. Spectacular sphere ? We had -10% dps on the trait !?? Same for Alacrity you can't take transcendant tempest, you need a full overload. And all "offensive" boons have huge drawback or sacrifice to do.

 

That's why celestial is really nice on elementalist for roaming / solo gameplay, the ~40% BD make builds a lot more confortable + the hybridness that suits well elementalist and compensates in part the DPS.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Zhaid Zhem.6508